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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:02 PM
Original message
Need some (more) help
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 08:04 PM by politicasista
I know I could find this at the Kerry library, but did Kerry ever talk about the environment during the 04 campaign or did the media edit out some things? I was wondering because there was the Newsweek story about Gore running again and his strong record on the environment, and a reply was posted (not here) that that is what Kerry should have ran on in 04.

It's lonely out there as far as people that would support him again. :shrug:
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't get discouraged, it is normal to only hear from the opposition.
Kerry did discuss the environment and such. I'll pull something and post it for you. In the meantime, I can assure you, if Kerry would have run on the environment last time with all the other security issues out there and the War on Terror, he would have lost in a landslide. That anyone would suggest that, just shows how ridiculous they are.
It has also been mentioned that certain forces are at work, trying to pit Gore against Kerry, in an attempt to marginalize the good senator.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think the problem is that Bush has been so f-ing bad...
that people are "yearning for a principled leader" and didn't see that from Kerry in 04. And I like Gore too.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. if they don't see that in Kerry then he wont win the nomination
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 08:22 PM by JI7
i see that in Kerry and i will support him along with some others.

so these people you talk about certainly don't speak for me.

and i like Gore also. i wish he would run. although i would still support KErry if he runs.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. These were Gore/Biden supporters
I thought Bush was the issue here. :shrug: I would like to post/inform people what Kerry is up to, but it might get infilterated with RW talking points.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. So they voted for Bush?
That's pretty delusional!
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. No, they voted for Kerry
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 08:29 PM by politicasista
They just want someone to get the people that are on the fence (left crowd).
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. so Biden is going to do that ?
hahhahaha
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No, they think that Gore could be the one
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 08:33 PM by politicasista
to tap into the voter pools that are usually left hanging (kinda like reaching out to the undecideds). Making the envrionment i.e. Global Warming an issues they say is a smart move by him.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. well, they should get Gore to run then
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. True n/t
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Somewhere I heard Kerry say that in every speech
he did include something about the environment. So maybe he did.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I thought he demonstrated his principles in the way he conducted his
campaign in 2004. I always thought of him as principled. I remember Gore from 2000 and before, and to be honest, I don't get the Gore thing. He was well aware of how much disenfranchisement there was when he ran yet he has never mentioned it. I also remember the conservative Gore, the smug Gore who did not do well in the debates and now the liberal Gore, who is liberated of the restraints of Congress and voters and who is free to say whatever he chooses to say without any real repercussions. Actually, I would think he likes things as they are. He can be admired without all the baggage that goes along with commitment to office and country.

I voted for Gore because I didn't like Bush even in 2000. I voted for Kerry because I liked and respected him and he was my ideal for President. I suppose, to each his own. If it came down to Gore or Kerry, I would have no hesitation in voting for Kerry- none whatsoever.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I liked Gore best in 1992
but I was politically pretty immature. Back then environment was my number 1 issue - I consider it a sad commentary on the state of the world that I had to demote it.

I do think Gore is principled, and I think he would be a very good president. The only thing I remember about the 2000 campaign that really bugged me (about Gore himself) was the sighing thing during the debate. He actually believed them when they told him he wouldn't be on camera when Bush was speaking? Come on! I don't think you can find anything by Kerry that even his worst detractors could honestly claim was as dumb as that. But you know, we are all human, and I think it's pretty shallow of voters to allow something like that to make much of a difference in their decision. There was a world of difference between Bush and Gore on the substantive issues, and that's what it really should have come down to - in a sane world.

Anyway, if Gore and Kerry both run, I will look closely at Gore again. I suspect I will stay with Kerry as my first choice but I want to evaluate it dispassionately, looking at the entire record and all the issues.

I can guarantee you though, if I were picking who to have a beer with, Kerry wins hands down.

:toast:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. I would pick Kerry for both President and the beer in a second
Edited on Sun Apr-30-06 03:48 PM by karynnj
I looked at Gore in 2000 (and in 1992). I had no qualms in voting for him. He was a serious candidate, who I had very little reason to dislike. I don't think he was inspiring - which in 2000 didn't bother me.

In 2008, whoever wins, will have an enormous job. He(she) will have to be able to inspire the country to go back to what was once great about it. Not that we were the only superpower, but that we became a country based on a pretty progressive, idealistic set of documents that formed the basis of what we stood for. We have strayed, but we need to get back to these beliefs.

Contrast Gore's and Kerry's speeches. Gore's are able to spell out graphically what is wrong, as did Kerry's Faneuil Hall speech. Kerry was able to reach out to those hearing it in a call to action that was not strident but it was urgent. Kerry was inspiring where Gore wasn't. Gore seemed alternately as though he was talking down to people and then angry. I know he is a good thoughful man, but I honestly hate to hear him.

Kerry's lifetime commitment to encouraging active participation in government is refeshing and could be what is needed. The other thing is that Gore, in spite of being VP seemed to have less of a foreign policy philosophy than Kerry.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. People who didn't see a principled leader in Kerry in '04 were blind.
I think they had a lot of help from the media to create that blindness, but hell, I didn't even look that hard, relatively speaking, and I saw plenty of principled leadership there.

And if after all this time someone is judging Kerry as to whether he's "principled" or not, without ever actually doing any research, well they deserve what they get when they get another dipshit fratboy for president again.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here is a little something from a Kerry speech back in 2003.
On energy and the environment, George Bush seeks to undo the progress of 30 years under Presidents of both parties. His Clean Skies initiative

In a Kerry Administration, we will recommit America to one of the greatest unfinished challenges of our time and of all time -- to save our environment, to protect our oceans, to reverse the tide of global warming. We will not let polluters rewrite our laws in return for campaign contributions. We will make them and not taxpayers pay the bill to clean up toxic waste. And we will disprove the lie that protecting the environment can only come at the expense of jobs.

The truth is that prosperity doesn’t come from pollution.
http://www.4president.org/speeches/johnkerry2004announcement.htm



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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you
I am kinda afraid to post it as a rebuttal cause some might say that he should have spoke out on this forcefully (in the media or on the trail) or too little too late, but I will keep this for my records.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Looking back or forward,
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 09:08 PM by ProSense
Kerry doesn't hold a back seat to anyone on this issue. He has amassed knowlegde over decades of indepth involvement:

Kerry Says Bush Undercuts Environment
By DAVID M. HALBFINGER

Published: April 21, 2004



BAL HARBOUR, Fla., April 20 — Senator John Kerry accused the Bush administration Tuesday of "playing dirty" in what he described as its undoing of 30 years of environmental regulation, and declared that ocean pollution was jeopardizing Florida's vital tourism industry.

As Mr. Kerry opened a three-day push on the environment timed to the observance of Earth Day, this Thursday, his campaign also worked to play down two new polls that showed President Bush's standing with voters improving relative to the senator's, even after a month of damaging news for the White House.

Across the state from here, with dolphins surfacing in the waters of Tampa Bay behind him and a seagull shrieking overhead, Mr. Kerry gave a spirited defense of environmental advocacy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/21/politics/campaign/21KERR.html?ex=1397966400&en=fe7d4b2e6d615d2b&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND



October 29, 2004

Kerry and the Environment

Few senators have a better track record on the environment than John Kerry, and he has a solid plan for protecting it. So why don’t more people know that?

The League of Conservation Voters has strongly endorsed Kerry, who has earned a 92 percent rating from the organization over the course of his Senate career -- among the highest ratings the League has ever awarded. (For comparison, "Earth in the Balance" author Al Gore scored only a 64 percent rating from the League). Kerry’s green credentials obviously stack up well against George Bush's; the president has earned an "F" rating from the Sierra Club, managed to avoid getting the endorsement of Republicans for Environmental Protection and compiled the worst environmental record of any modern U.S. president.

more...

http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/10/10_517.html






The Democratic Ticket on the Environment

First, Senator Kerry. Now you can disagree over the significance of his record on the environment during his years of service as an elected official, but John Kerry has one. And the record begins during a period in his life that hasn't gotten much attention -- a period after Vietnam, after he was a prosecutor, but before he was elected to the U.S. Senate. The time was 1982, the place was Massachusetts. The environmental issue of the day was acid rain, and people were still coming to terms with it. Dianne Dumanoski was an environment writer for the Boston Globe at the time.

DUMANOSKI: Acid rain was a really dominant issue. We had lakes – actually we still have lakes -- that were acidified and had lost their fish, there's been widespread damage to the forests in New England

CURWOOD: John Kerry had been elected Lieutenant Governor, traditionally a stepping stone in Massachusetts politics. The governor, Michael Dukakis, delegated the issues of state-federal relations to Kerry just as acid rain was becoming the premier cross-border issue.

DUMANOSKI: He sort of became the point person on acid rain and was the person that was doing all this organizing and collaborating with the other governors and the Eastern Canadian provincial heads of government. And there was actually a treaty that was signed in '83. It was actually the first agreement on acid rain. It really predated the agreements in Europe and this actually later became the blueprint for the provisions in the Clean Air Act that didn't get passed until 1990.

CURWOOD: Dianne Dumanoski credits Kerry with developing a strong grasp of this complex issue, in which pollutants are carried by the wind from the Midwest to the U.S. and Canadian east. Bob Turner also covered the earlier career of John Kerry and is now deputy editorial page editor at the Boston Globe.

Snip...

DUMANOSKI: I think his initiation on the acid rain issue gave him an early understanding of these other issues like ozone depletion and climate change. And I've always had the impression that he understands, that he gets it

MULHERN: Since I work a lot on clean water act issues I've become very familiar with Senator Kerry's record because he's been involve in a lot of the significant clean water and coastal protection debates of the last six years.

CURWOOD: Jean Mulhern lobbies members of Congress as senior counsel for the environmental law firm Earthjustice. Though Earthjustice can't endorse candidates, she agreed to discuss John Kerry's reputation.

MULHERN: Senator Kerry has been one of the leading advocates on the commerce committee for strengthening and improving these very important provisions on non-point source pollution in the Coastal Zone Management Act reauthorization. And I would say that that's true, again in my own experience as an environmental lobbyist that's true, on many of the other clean water issues that I work on that Senator Kerry has a very steady record of supporting strong protections for the nation's waters and meaningful efforts to reduce water pollution.

CURWOOD: And Senator Kerry has at times worked on environmental issues that were not likely to win him any political points or media attention. He worked on the international agreement to phase out chemicals that are gnawing a hole in the earth's protective ozone layer. And the Senator also worked closely with a non profit group called Second Nature which helps suffuse environmental principles throughout academia. His wife Teresa Heinz Kerry served on the board.

There have also been higher profile issues, like the Clean Air Act of 1990, and more recently he led an effort on the Senate floor that blocked drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We asked Bob Turner of the Boston Globe how much heat he thought a president John Kerry might be willing to take for an environmental issue he supports -- for example, cleaner power.


http://www.loe.org/shows/shows.htm?programID=04-P13-00030#feature1




Speech from 2003

From the Office of Senator Kerry

Kerry speech on the environment and energy independence -- John F. Kennedy Library, Boston

John F. Kennedy Library Forum Boston, Massachusetts

Tuesday, February 11, 2003

We meet in a place that testifies both to the soaring aspirations of America – and the capacity of events to break our hearts and our hope. We saw that again a week ago in the fiery tragedy of the Space Shuttle Columbia falling from the sky – the new ocean we explore that President Kennedy launched us on more than forty years before. No one can doubt that we will return. Even as we mourn and even now as we investigate and debate, we have reaffirmed our resolve. Yet in the past week, other events that test our spirit and strength passed almost unnoticed. We lost four sons of America in Afghanistan and it hardly caused a ripple. Indeed, every day we lose Americans in our streets and we lose important public values and assets without much notice; more and more we seem resigned to accepting this as a matter of course. But it is not acceptable. Too often today our national capacity to translate principle into political action appears dulled or dumbed down beyond the comprehensible – as false rhetoric becomes a substitute for meeting the reality of our challenges.

We will not got to the stars on the cheap – and here on earth we will not accomplish our work by short-changing it. We need to renew our national resolve – not just in the face of fatal tragedy or fateful attack, but across the board. We need to push back against complacency and the political caution that tempts us just to go along. We need to push back on tax cuts that make no economic sense – on stimulus packages that don’t stimulate – on health care treated more and more as a privilege and not as the right it should be. We need to push back on focus grouped slogans of compassion that show little or no compassion at all – We need to push back on a foreign policy that puts America unnecessarily at risk – on rhetoric about draining the swamp of terrorists while our policies too often ignore the poisonous flow that fills the swamp. So it is appropriate that we gather here at a memorial to John F. Kennedy. His vision can help us focus in our difficult times. One of his great gifts was the way in which he challenged us to dream of the future as only Americans can. He inspired us to set our sights high in the pursuit of progress and to find ways to reach our goals -- to send a man to the moon, to confront the ignorance and injustice of bigotry, and to send Americans all over the world to bring about a better life and strengthen the bond among nations. He asked us to do these things not because they were easy but because they were hard – and above all else, because they were right. That is what we need to do today – tell the truth, talk common sense, and find a common vision equal to the best of our history and our hopes. This begins by acknowledging that nowhere is there a more determined, more dangerous, more concerted frontal and stealth assault on our values and our future than the Bush Administration’s disregard for the environment.

Nowhere is there a greater need for a new vision – a better vision – than in the decisions we make that affect the health of the environment we share with the other 95% of humanity. We know intuitively that America is only as healthy as the water our children drink, the air they breathe, the yards and parks in which they play and laugh, and the communities in which they live. The question is whether armed with that knowledge our generation will leave our children and grandchildren an earth that is cleaner not more degraded, more beautiful not more polluted, healthier and safer for children and other living things than the world we inherited from our parents and grandparents. I remember reading Rachel Carson’s ‘Silent Spring’ and feeling we had a responsibility to do something about lakes full of toxins and rivers that caught on fire. Thirty years ago, I was part of that peaceful Army of conscience that launched the first Earth Day here in the Commonwealth to demand the most basic safeguards for our air, water and land. The first calls for environmental stewardship were instantly and insistently opposed by some in industry, who threatened that even modest reform was technologically impossible and economically ruinous. But across the nation people gathered and they organized – just as we did here in New England – and mounted a great democratic march toward pioneering laws like the Clean Air Act and the Safe Drinking Water Act – fundamental protections that Americans take for granted today. We removed lead from gasoline, set out to clean up polluted waterways, cut back air pollution, took back land that had been lost to toxic waste – and we even saved the bald eagle from extinction. And with this progress, we disproved the rallying cry of the polluters and their apologists. We proved that a good environment and a sound economy go hand in hand. This was a bi-partisan cause, as it should be. Republicans and Democrats breathe the same air, and our children drink the same water. But now, after a generation when we sometimes differed on specific issues but always moved in the same direction, this administration has broken the bond of shared commitment. When have we heard the President propose anything other that tokenism on the environment? Where is the strategy for energy efficiency to reduce pollution and reduce the energy dependence which can hold our entire economy hostage to hostile powers? The environmental challenge is more pressing and more profound than ever. It involves our national resources, our national security, and the ways in which human beings will live together on this planet. More must be done, not less. Far more – yet we don’t have to look far to see the challenge; it is all around us. Too many of American lakes and rivers remain polluted; today nearly half of Massachusetts' waterways are too polluted to fish or swim in and 44% across the nation. Hundreds of toxic sites – dangerous to the millions who live near them – blight places all across the country. The soot, smog and other pollution in our air still sickens our fellow citizens and contributes to 30,000 deaths each year. Thanks to dirty power plants that we refuse to modernize, mercury emissions are expected to climb to 60 tons in 2010, a 33% increase over 1990 levels. Each summer, smog triggers over 6 million asthma attacks and results in nearly 70,000 hospital admissions. We’re rapidly encroaching upon our forests, wetlands and farmlands and all the natural ecosystems that sustain us. And ever more awesome challenges have emerged as we now understand the mortal threat of pollution to our oceans and our climate.

Special Interests Before National Interests

We had our earth day. Now, if necessary, if this administration will not change course, the next election year must be an earth year, where we plainly and unequivocally fight for the environment against those now at the center of power who are dismantling that commitment piece by piece.

Perhaps that charge takes some by surprise. After all, in his State of the Union address President Bush promised the nation that, “We will not deny, we will not ignore, we will not pass along our problems to other Congresses, to other presidents, and other generations.” And to match that soaring rhetoric the Administration has launched a series of environmental policies so duplicitous they would make George Orwell blush at this President’s mastery of doublespeak. They have mastered the tactic of slapping slick slogans on their policies that make them sound like something they’re not. The President’s ‘Healthy Forests’ initiative sounds great, except that’s where you kill the trees to save the forest. He has a ‘Clear Skies’ program based on the premise that our air will be cleaner when you let companies decide how much they can pollute. And while I applaud the President for finally acknowledging the potential of hydrogen cars, I’m convinced his ‘Freedom Car’ was really dreamed up to maintain the political freedom of this White House to open up the Rocky Mountains and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. It’s the new Dick Cheney playbook – ‘drill today, drill tomorrow, hydrogen sometime,’ and hope we don’t see through the media smokescreen. The truth is, President Bush provides the right rhetoric, but then pursues all the wrong policies. He says he wants to clean up toxic waste sites, but he’s reversed the polluter pays principle in the Superfund, and that means the fund will soon run dry and cleanups will stop. We’re already feeling the effect. The Atlas Tack site in Fairhaven contains cyanide, heavy metals, pesticides and PCBs. Some 7,000 people live within a one mile of the site. And this year, the Bush Administration provided exactly zero dollars for cleanup. Across the country, seven toxic sites and the communities that must live with them got nothing. The President’s Clear Skies initiative for power plants is anything but clear. It is, in fact, slower and weaker than current law. It is a step backwards that will spew more pollution into air – pollution that causes asthma, heart disease, neurological damage and even death – and contributes to acid rain, smog, soot and mercury in our rivers and lakes. And we will bear the brunt of the President’s plan, because, although New England has done its part, weather will carry pollution from distant heavily-polluting power plants to our communities. And never forget, it is not just broken environmental policy, it is a broken promise from a President who pledged on the campaign trail to cut carbon emissions from power plants – and now won’t. The President calls his energy plan “balanced.” And I suppose it is, if balanced means what it did for the books at Enron and WorldCom. Quite simply, if we enacted the Bush plan today, we would find ourselves more polluting and more dependent on foreign oil in 20 years than we are today. His Freedom Car initiative throws a bone to those of us who have called for intense research into hydrogen fuel, but it’s no substitute for making the more than 300 million cars that will be built before fuel cell cars hit the road more efficient – and that is exactly what John McCain and I fought for last year and it’s exactly what President Bush fought against. The litany of environmental neglect and rollback could go on, to wetlands, to toxics, to clean water, to roadless forests, to our public lands. Corporate polluters have found in the Bush Administration that the doors of government are wide open. In fact, the Administration invited in the chief lobbyists to rewrite the very laws that were intended to protect us from them. This Administration has heeded the special interests rather than America’s interest and the result has been the most wide-ranging retreat on environmental protections in a century.

Americans want to make sure the water we drink is clean. But this Administration tried to increase the limits of arsenic in our water. Americans want the toxic sites in our neighborhoods cleaned up. But this Administration has cut the number of sites we're cleaning up nearly in half. Americans believe in simple justice: that what you mess up you should clean up. But this Administration has found a new principle: when today’s polluters pollute and profit, taxpayers should foot the bill. Americans believe in cleaning up pollution, not subsidizing it. But this Administration protects government subsidies that ignore or undermine our commitment to a clean environment. The Fossil Energy Research and Development program spends more than $400 million on R&D for oil companies who can afford their own R&D-- and even duplicates research they’re already engaged in. Meanwhile clean alternative energies compete for the scraps of a mere $24 million in federal venture capital. Americans believe we can build an international consensus to address the threat of global warming. But this Administration ignored it – sending a message that reverberated around the globe – and will reverberate upon future generations. Their meetings are behind closed doors, but their agenda is plain to see. What is particularly plain to me is that we need a new agenda and America needs a healthier environment – with cleaner air, water, and land. We need and we must have a future that is no longer dependent on oil from unstable regions. So let’s take the President at his word. We will not deny; we will not ignore, we will not pass along our problems to other Congresses, to other presidents, and other generations. But, unlike this president, our actions must be as bold as our rhetoric. Instead of weakening the Clean Air Act, let’s strengthen it to reduce mercury, sulfur, nitrogen and carbon emissions. Instead of letting the Superfund go broke, sticking taxpayers with the tab, and forcing communities to live with toxic sites, let’s restore the polluter pays principle and get the poisons out of our neighborhoods. And let’s deal with new threats, not deny them, turning away and pretending not to see as more and more Americans are exposed to more and more toxics in combinations we’ve never imagined. There are some 80,000 chemicals registered for use in the United States, and each day we are exposed to hundreds, even thousands, of them. They are released into our environment, into our air, water and land and they find their way into the food chain. We bring them into our homes in the food and products we buy, from cleaners to cosmetics to our children’s toys. We assume the chemicals are safe, but that’s a mistake. Fewer than 10 percent have been tested, and some of have been linked to cancer, birth defects and infertility. It’s long since time we give the EPA and FDA the authority and capacity to investigate, monitor and test the long-term risks of these compounds. Our environment and our bodies are no place to experiment with chemicals. We must also help cities across the nation, like the old manufacturing towns all across New England, build the infrastructure that will keep sewage and polluted runoff out of our rivers, lakes and harbors, and beyond this, we must leverage a new urban strategy in America to plan spaces – build community – avoid the endless sprawl that robs us of our public spaces – and ultimately revive the urban center as one of the best places to live and raise a family. We must manage our land knowing we will someday pass it on to tomorrow’s generations. We must work it, reap its harvest, and care for it. This is not just an ideal or a possibility; it is a deeply practical imperative.

Economy And the good news is our progress in technology and the lessons of the past three decades, have taught us that cleaning up the environment will strengthen not weaken our economy. We need to push back on the scaremongering which falsely portrays pollution as the price of prosperity. We don’t have to choose between jobs and the environment. Protecting the environment is jobs – the high value added jobs of the future. This is not pie-in-the-sky, tree hugging, do-gooder environmental day dreaming. This is real. It's happening in pioneering efforts across the country and across the globe. It awaits our leadership. When I hear the polluters and their favored politicians invoke the issue of jobs and growth, my response is: It is not us who should be on the defensive - it's them and it's time we put them there. In doing so, we cannot talk vague generalities. We must show real jobs, real costs, real transition numbers. We must show that our next generation of environmental solutions represent the least intrusive, most cost effective ways of doing the job. We must show the growth in demand in America and precisely how we will meet it, not just without loss but with gain in the quality of our lives. We know if we invest in new technologies we can build cars and SUVs that are twice and three times as efficient as today – and one day a car that relies on no oil at all. And a company that may help build that car can be found right there in Cambridge; it’s called Nuvera Fuel Cells and it’s putting fuel cell components in prototype cars today. We know if we support promising research, we can get cleaner coal, renewable sources of energy like wind and solar energy, light our homes and businesses with fuel cells, and run power plants that don't turn the jet stream into a river of pollution. And today the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 103 is taking the lead by training technicians in the maintenance and installation of solar. Minnesota now requires that a percentage of its electricity be generated from the wind, and family farmers have gone into the power business. In Woodstock, Minnesota, Richard and Roger Kas have built 17 wind turbines on their land, creating enough electricity to power more than 2,000 homes. Other farmers are literally growing renewable fuels in their fields which will bring warmth and light to our homes.

For Americans who work in engineering, design, and industry, the growth of wind, solar and geothermal can spark an unprecedented surge in production. And since developing new energy technologies is a research-driven, pathbreaking activity, a commitment to it will yield thousands and ultimately hundreds of thousands of well-paying new jobs. The machines of renewable energy will be made of steel, aluminum and glass. They will be machined, manufactured, distributed and maintained. And in that historic effort, I do not want and we cannot afford to see this country take a backseat to the Germans or the Japanese. This new direction for America can create new jobs for Americans, and it's up to us to make our economy second to none on this technological frontier. Building more efficient cars and SUVs will not only save millions of barrels of oil a day; in the end, it will create or sustain millions jobs. So will building high-speed rail and 21st century transit. The possibilities are limitless. But it will take a commitment as broad and bold as sending a man to the moon. And we can’t fulfill that commitment by sending the environment to the back of the budget – and putting the polluters in charge, in secret, behind closed doors.

Energy Security Is National Security In the end, though, our concerns about the environment are not just about the economy and quality of life here at home. Make no mistake: our environment and energy policies are critical to national our security. The Bush-Cheney energy policies leave us at the mercy of a region racked with violence and instability, now more than ever. We can no longer tolerate a dependence on foreign oil, that could be cut-off amid global chaos at the whim of unstable tyrants like Saddam Hussein. The Bush Administration thinks we can drill our way out of our energy problems. And their solution is to drill in one of our precious national treasures - the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. That’s not an energy policy, that’s simply the needless pursuit of profit. They brought this plan to the United States Senate -- and we stopped them. Now they say they will try again – and I pledge to you that we will stop them again. This Administration likes fuzzy math but any child can do the math on oil. The fact is when 65% of the world's oil supply is in the Gulf and only 3% in America. There is no way we can drill our way to energy independence. We have to invent our way there. A founding member of the OPEC oil cartel said years ago that the Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, and the oil age won’t end because we run out of oil. At the start of the 21st century, we have new possibilities to develop technologies that advance both our economy and our environment -- and at the same time become a nation and a world less and less dependent on oil. We can create a market for clean, domestic, reliable energy with a national standard for renewable power in the electricity sector. I believe we should set a national goal of having 20% of our electricity come from domestic alternative and renewable sources by the year 2020. Twenty-twenty - I think it's a vision worthy of America; a goal I believe our citizens are ready to embrace.

We can reform the tax code to end the federal largess given to polluting fuels and invest instead in the technologies that will make our homes and businesses and transportation more efficient and bring renewable energy to market. We can cut our dependence on foreign oil by building more efficient cars and SUVs and creating a national market for the biofuels grown on farms across the nation. Domestic, renewable sources are urgently needed now because they are entirely under our control. No foreign government can embargo them. No terrorist can seize control of them. No cartel can play games with them. No American soldier will have to risk his or her life to protect them. For all those reasons -- to create a better, more secure and cleaner environment -- and to move to real energy security -- I believe even the most rock-ribbed conservative would agree we must take steps that go beyond what market forces will do on their own. We should be the world’s environmental leader. Our global environmental policy should be driven by our convictions, not our constraints.

America has not led but fled on the issue of global warming. The first President Bush was willing to lead on this issue. But the second President Bush's declaration that the Kyoto Protocol was simply Dead on Arrival spoke for itself - and it spoke in dozens of languages as his words whipped instantly around the globe. What the Administration failed to see was that Kyoto was not just an agreement; it represented the resolve of 160 nations working together over 10 years. It was a good faith effort - and the United States just dismissed it. We didn't aim to mend it. We didn't aim to sit down with our allies and find a compromise. We didn't aim for a new dialogue. The Administration was simply ready to aim and fire, and the target they hit was our international reputation. This country can and should aim higher than preserving its place as the world's largest unfettered polluter. We should assert, not abandon our leadership in addressing global economic degradation and the warming of the atmosphere that if left unchecked, will do untold damage to our coastline and our Great Plains, our cities and our economy. We should be the world's leader in sustainable developmental. We should be the world's leader in technology transfer and technical assistance to meet a host of environmental and health challenges. Several years ago I worked with the World Bank to organize the first sustainable development conference in Southeast Asia to help Vietnam consider the balance of development and sustainability so Hanoi doesn’t become Beijing, a city where people have to wear surgical masks just to take a breath of air. Avoid breathing the dirty air. We brought corporations and scientists and engineers to the table to find cleaner ways for Vietnam to develop. The question is why we’re not doing that everywhere around the globe; the question is why we don’t have a President who recognizes that friends we rely on to clean up on the environment are friends we can call on help clean out the stables of terrorism. If we are going to be true stewards for the air, water and land, for our nation and the earth itself, we must remember that we are all in this together. This is about our values. It is about who we are as a people.

So those of us who are Democrats must stand as a party for the preservation and protection of the environment. We can all wish it did not have to be so – that this Administration shared the bi-partisan commitment of other republicans before them. After all, some of the greatest progress on the environment has come across party lines - the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act. It was Richard Nixon who looked at the burning rivers and smog filled cities and decided to support an Environmental Protection Agency. Americans don’t think about whether they are a Democrat or a Republican when they worry about a child’s asthma or polluted tap water. They think about their local towns and playgrounds, their everyday lives and their future. My mother was a committed citizen. She started a local recycling program in Manchester by the Sea. She worked in her community to build a nature trail. I still remember her waking me up in the early hours of the morning to walk with her in the woods listening to the sound of wild birds. I didn’t understand it at the time, but that’s what the environmental moment is about – leaving your little piece of this planet better for your children than you found it. Citizens like my mother across the nation work every day to preserve that legacy. And so should our national leaders. They should not be guided by big polluters or Washington lobbyists. They should be guided by a profound commitment to the protection of the earth, a greater and more healthy prosperity, a more genuine and stronger national security. If we want to be a nation that honors our responsibilities, values our families, and safeguards our society, then we must change our direction. We must forge a new path to an America that looks beyond the next election to the next generation. An America where the use of military might is not clouded by our need for oil. Where the stability of our economy is not rattled by the instability of a dictator or an authoritarian regime. Where no child grows up near toxic cites and poisonous chemicals. Where citizens concerned about the environment have the same access to the White House that big oil companies do today. Where our children can treasure the calm and clear water of the Great Lakes, and the majesty of the Rocky Mountains. In the summer of 1963, in the months after he signed the nuclear test ban treaty, what he called that first step to “make the world safe for human survival,” President Kennedy traveled across the western United States, to the Rockies and beyond, and spoke of that other fundamental cause that would shape the future and fate of America – the conservation of our land, our air, and our water. That call summons us with renewed urgency today. Like his call to end the nuclear nightmare and the evil of racism, the outcome now is up to all of us to believe as he did “Here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.” In that spirit let us embark on our own journey toward that timeless vision of “America the beautiful.” And long after that journey, let our grandchildren look back on it and say that we were the generation that used our time to protect the Earth for all time.



Protecting the Environment & Improving Our Quality of Life:

When Massachusetts looks for environmental leadership, the name John Kerry immediately arises. As an original organizer of Earth Day 1970 in Massachusetts, and Chair of the National Earth Day 1990 board, John Kerry has long recognized the vulnerability of the environment. Kerry has become nationally and internationally known as an environmental hero for his strong leadership, his stellar voting record and his continuing efforts to keep the teeth in pollution legislation.

Over 30 years ago, I spoke at the Commonwealth's first Earth Day and
called for fundamental protections that became the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, Endangered Species Act and Superfund. When I look back on the many challenges we faced in 1970, I know that we have made great strides. The proof of our progress is all around us. Air pollution, water pollution and toxic emissions have been reduced. Lead has been removed from gasoline. Boston Harbor is recovering from decades of pollution. Acid rain across New England has been reduced. Species once on the verge of extinction, even the mighty bald eagle, have returned to strength. And through it all, the American economy has grown to historic levels as technology, long-term planning and commonsense have replaced environmentally destructive practices. However, our work is not complete.


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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. This is an amazing set of articles
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Gist Magazine Interview
This was actually from 2003 but you might find it of interest:

http://kerrylibrary.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=3&view=findpost&p=136
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Oooh, cool! Thanks for the link! n/t
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. We need to teach people to be savvy consumers of information.
Seriously. It was easy as pie to tell where Kerry was on the environment - even if he never said a word about it in the campaign.

Anyone who actually cares about the environment would hopefully at least have a passing acquaintance with the leading environmental activist organizations. I assume it is true for other places as well, but Sierra Club and LCV came out huge for Kerry in my area. If they only thought he was a marginal improvement over Bush, you wouldn't have seen anything like what actually happened.

I got scads of LCV literature promoting Kerry on the environment.

I agree with others here that he should NOT have made it a major issue in the campaign, given everything else that was going on. It just wasn't what people wanted to talk about. Still, anyone who looked could have easily determined that he was highly rated by LCV and strongly supported by most if not all true environmental orgs (I am sure there was a Trees for Truth group somewhere, and there was always the reliable Joshua Frank to lie about JK's record at CounterPuke, but what are ya gonna do?)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Actually in one of Prosense's article's
there was someone identified as the President's New England coordinator on the environment in the 80s (read Republican - Reagan, Bush - was he appointed by the well known environmentalist, EPA head Watts) who said Kerry voted right but it was Dukakis, Lieberman, Moynihan and everyone else in the NE who was good. - in the article on where Kerry and Edwards were on the environment - and it stood out like a sore thumb as all the environmentalist spoke about how strong he was.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Kerry and the environment
Well, Sen. Kerry did propose legislation to deal with eroding wetlands in Louisiana over 15 years ago. He did detail what erosion was doing to the coastline and that he feared that a big storm would have devastating consequences.

Someone was paying attention and trying to get legislation through. But, see, it cost too much and the Democrats could't be seen as spending money on infrastructure during the Clinton years because it wasn't the highest priority and it certainly had no priority under Bush.

Kerry has a been a strong proponent of environmental safeguards for his whole career. He spoke out on in repeatedly in '04. And he didn't drop it just because it was 'unpopular' with those who aren't out base anyway.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I am sure he did..
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 10:59 PM by politicasista
This was just an opinion of where I got this all from taken from the Newsweek story on Gore:


"To echo the sentiments of Bill Maher, someone, more likely a Democrat needs to try and tap into the voter pools that are usually left hanging. Making the environment a campaigning issue is a smart move. Kerry should've played that card during the 04 campaign."
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It's what you call lazy journalism
and the media including those who think they know it all, Maher should of LISTENED. I did and it was one of Kerry's main themes throughout the campaign. One of the things you could be doing is educating them on facts given and also look it up yourself, and tell them I looked it up and here are the facts and always make sure you give proof to those facts. If they come back with you with punditry talk, tell them wwhere is the proof and it can't come from the same punditry, that is not fact it is hearsay.

If they don't want to hear the truth, they never wanted it to begin with.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. No, I like Kerry, these people do too
I past along the links from above. I think everyone is just frustrated with Bush right now and just wants someone to step forward and lead.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Well if they are frustrated with Bush
and supposedly like Kerry why are they putting the blame on Kerry ? Put the blame on the one who is causing the frustration. Hell when did Bush ever talk enviroment, never until recently when he again has been backed up against the wall, and that is all it is is talk no action.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. In their eyes, defeating Bush should have been easy. I disagree..
I disagree because Bush, Rove and the media spray painted the word FEAR all over television screens in America, not to mention in a time of war.

I watched the debates too. Kerry was really good. I think people just miss Gore cause he got cheated out of the presidency just like Kerry did and love comeback stories.

I am going back to 2006 now.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Step foward and lead?
Kerry is not the president, Bush is. Congress does not run the country, the executive branch, the Bush administration does. And as the minority in Congress, all the Democrats, not just Kerry, can propose legislation and put forward ideas, but carrying out policy is still up to the administration.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. That's what no one but us seems to understand n/t
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Thats not true
Edited on Sun Apr-30-06 12:27 AM by fedupinBushcountry
You know the first time I went to see Senator Kerry in Feb. '04, a day after 300 people showed up for Edwards and a few days after 150-200 people showed up for Clark, I had no idea how many really knew and wanted to hear Kerry. Well was I surprised 2500 people showed up. There are more us then you think, and most of those people that came to that event had been following Kerry for years, I was a newcomer.

There are probably many more times us, we the one's that post, that are lurkers and keep up to date on Kerry by just looking at this forum. Just because they don't post doesn't mean they are not one of us.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. 2500 people showed up? Wow!
Edited on Sun Apr-30-06 12:36 AM by politicasista
That's good. Maybe just need to get off the computer (LOL!). Thanks for the positive reinforcement. :hi:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Lucky thing
Bill Maher is only a comedian. And if Clift is quoting him on what the defining issue of the campaign should have been, then she's a clown too. As Tay said, Kerry covered it enough. The top issues were war, terrorism, national security. Are they suggesting that Kerry should have foolishly run on the environment while Bush and the rest of the country were focused on the other issues?
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-29-06 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. Can someone contact Newsweek and provide them with this information
Edited on Sat Apr-29-06 11:40 PM by wisteria
on Kerry and the environment? (I have already e-mailed Clift over Kerry) Bill Maher should be set straight also.
Gee, to hear these people go on incorrectly about what Kerry should have done you might think Senator Kerry just stood on the stage at every campaign rally looking good and never saying anything.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
35. 'sista, a lot of this goes back to the loss
Edited on Sun Apr-30-06 11:03 AM by TayTay
In the face of loss, it is always possible to say that the candidate should have done more of this or more of that. That JFK line about victory having a thousand fathers but defeat being an orphan is at play here.

Fairly or not the loss in '04 is a sort of Rorschach Test for Democrats. People see what they want to see in it. Some look at it and say, "If only Kerry had talked more about XXXXX, then he would have been President." The DLC consultants wanted the good Senator to talk more about domestic issues. That is what the DLC Dems won on in 1992. I don't think this is right as Kerry had whopping numbers of people who agreed with him on the Dem domestic issues. (Some, like health care, showed upward of 70% of the electorate agreeing with his call and position on health care issues.) Contrary to what the Clifts and Goodmans of the world write, the Democratic positions on domestic issues was well-known and were very popular. This is why Kerry is so completely right when he says that we don't need to re-think our positions on issues. We have the 'right' position on issues and we have positions that resonate with the American public. It would, however, be nice to have a news media that sees this instead of the dopey discussions we have about 'values' voters and why Dems are perceived as wishy-washy.

There are others, on the left, who claim that Kerry would have won if only he had become a more strident voice against the war. I see no backup for that in the polls for '04. None. I think that Kerry was about as strong a voice against the war as he could be in '04 and still be responsible and true to his own beliefs. This is a thoughtful man who is not going to whore himself after voters by agreeing to positions that he doesn't believe are good for the country. I saw that at the debates very strongly. Sen. Kerry made a forceful and persuasive argument that the military action in Iraq was bad for the US and bad for the global effort to fight religious extremism. However, the country wasn't ready yet to give in to that argument. A lot of people still felt that Bush could pull a victory out of this sows ear.

Fast forward to now. What is different about Sen. Kerry's speech last week at Faneuil Hall than the fine speeches he gave in '04? Speaking only for me, I think it is the compelling moral piece of his argument that the war is wrong. The good Senator is reclaiming his ground, his arguments amassed over a life time of experience that war is a fundamentally immoral force. The United States does not engage in war because it wants to, but only, only because it has to.

Kerry is answering Cindy Sheehan's riveting question: What noble cause? So that the President can claim the legal right to torture people for dubious information that is of little worth? So the President can destroy international relationships that have functioned for decades in pursuit of his own agenda of unilateral cowboy diplomacy? This is immoral. This is against what Americans believe.

There are other cases to be made that the path America is on now, in terms of the domestic agenda, is also immoral. (It is immoral to have children without health care in the richest nation on earth. It is not a dry policy manual thing, it is immoral. Period.) The planet is warming and we are seeing that effect in the number and intensity of storms that are hitting the coastal areas. The effects of this fall heaviest on the poor and the marginalized. This is not just wrong, it is immoral.

Now that not only sounds like a Democrat, but it sounds like a cohesive and heartfelt set of ideas that truly sound authentic coming from John Kerry. It is still a work in progress, as it should be.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Perfect! Thank you. n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Great post - it was an awesome experience
I just wish the speech had received more exposure - the good thing is believing that like all major Kerry speeches, fragments of it will resurface in his radio and tv appearnances and in later speeches.

The 2004 analyses also ignore how weak the grassroots Democratic party was and how little coverage the media gave to Kerry. That pundits don't remember things Kerry said repeatedly in every speech is cause for them to ask why they didn't hear anything. It would be great (but impossible and illegal) if someone could take over one of these groups of pundits and force them to watch even one of Kerry's CSPAN rallies.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Great post TayTay
Thanks. :hi: :yourock:
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
39. I found out what the deal was
Edited on Sun Apr-30-06 05:44 PM by politicasista
The issue is the Voting Rights Act. Actually they don't want Gore or Hillary or Kerry.

The fresh face is Biden. Seriously. They think he is very smart, calculated and definitely not a "punk" and can think quick on his feet. :thumbsdown: We hear a lot of talk about lack of backbone among Dems, but I will continue to point out some facts.
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Do they actually watch Biden doing his job?
I used to like him, but I got tired of him quickly. I also know someone who used to work for him, and while she agrees with him on a lot of issues, she says she doesn't like him as a person.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I don't think so n/t
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Question: what is the problem with the VRA and Kerry?
Why do they think Biden will be better on this issue? I am a little lost here.

I could imagine somebody saying that Biden will be tougher in foreign policy, for example, but better on the VRA?
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. That is a 'watch this space' thing for now.
Let's also wait and hear what the good Senator from Mass has to say at the Kenyon college graduation on May 20th from Kenyon College. It seems to me that would be a golden moment to say something pointed about VRA and about all the problems associated with HAVA.

Sen. Biden is okay, but he is not Presidential. I am not sure what Presdiential is, but as the Supreme Court noted about porn, I know it when I see it. I don't see it with Biden. I don't know if it's something shallow like his hair, him being short or those endless folksy stories that have no point, but he is not Presidential. I know it when I see it and it ain't Joe.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-30-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I may be pretty shallow too
I remember seeing them on the day Kerry introduced the amendment on the clandestaine prisons. Kerry's speech in the late morning was as good as usual - clear, organized and an excellent case why anyone should vote for it. Later in the day, Kerry was back when Rockefellow and Roberts tried to make it their amendment. Biden, rose to ask to present his amendment - even though their was an agreement that precluded another being introduced. He had a strange greenish colored suit, his hair look greasy as well as sparse (which he can't help). His presentation was very short and not too compelling. Kerry then rose to quickly suggest that both the Robersts/Rockefellow and Biden amendments could work as secondary amendments to his. Neither Roberts of Biden seemed to understand Kerry's instantaneous solution - so Warner (I think) told them to go off to listen to Kerry and resolve it.

It wasn't that Kerry looked more Presidential, it's that he took the effort to present his views, where Biden in this case really didn't and that Kerry could think on the spot. The Alito nomination was another example - Biden wasted 26 minutes and never asked a question on Alito's view of the relative role of the President and the Congress.

Both Biden and Kerry have tons of experience on foreign policy, but Biden's CFR speech was convoluted went off on tangents and (horror of horror) said Bush sounded like Kennedy with a Texan accent in his innaugral address. Kerry's speech is well written and insightful - and unlike Biden's doesn't flirt with neo-con ideas.
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