I think MSNBC is on more drugs than P Kennedy

[karynnj]

There "local" coverage is call ins from Barnicle and Howie Carr. (I don't live in MA and I know they are not representative.) Then they went to what's on the blogs. After saying many were talking about "Kennedy Crimes" and how the rich and famous get away with stuff. They mentioned the Democrats were bringing up Limbaugh.

Then they went to MA GOP blog, which they said were thinking that this will help them bring down Ted Kennedy this year. (Isn't he still lacking an opponent? It also seems unlikely that he can be beaten for something he didn't do. ) Abrams now has 3 experts on.

[beachmom]

1. Read this, though, and weep

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/05/washington/05cnd-kennedy.html?hp&ex=1146888000&en=7281f670e612805f&ei=5094&partner=homepage

I'm going to be politically incorrect with the Mass. folks here, and say I don't think he should run for re-election. If I were a constituent, I would want someone who doesn't have so many problems that it is a distraction from his job.

And the Porter Goss story is WAY bigger than this tragic Kennedy story if what Josh at TPM is saying is true (it involves Duke Cunningham and Hookergate). Come on, idiot media. Sex and bribery should trump boring old drug addiction every time!!

[karynnj]

2. I agree and it is very sad

It also may be that his job is the only thing remotely keeping him together. The real question is whether he can do the job and get the help he needs. I'm surprised that he isn't able to find a DC area rehab where he could miss fewer days. The problem is that his not being there leaves people unrepresented.

[beachmom]

3. I think a job as a public servant is a very important job

People would be fired from lesser jobs for this behavior. The fact that he won't step down, nor will he get in trouble for his actions, fuels the "elitist" RW talking point about liberals, for which the Kennedy family is a big symbol for.

The Right has won this argument.

Here's how Dems need to respond:

We're not going to defend this man's behavior. But he's ONE CONGRESSMAN and his unfortunate actions have NOT affected the public the way, Duke Cunningham's actions have in squandering tax dollars or the full scale corruption personified by Tom Delay and Jack Abramhoff or the lies and incompetence of the * administration. You want to talk about Patrick Kennedy? Then relegate it to the celebrity news because he's affected the American people about as much as Tom Cruise's bizarre remarks have. Meanwhile, the Republicans continue to squander tax dollars, and so on.

[beachmom]

5. Wow. Andrew Sullivan just put ME in my place

Time to take a step back when our gay conservative "friend" shows more compassion to Patrick Kennedy than I have:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/05/good_for_patric.html

Yes, it's bad if U.S. Representative Patrick Kennedy got preferential treatment by the cops after a driving accident caused by substance abuse of some kind. There seem to be inconsistencies to his story. But he has acknowledged his addiction problem; he is going into rehab; and Kennedys have human rights too. They're human beings as well as celebrities and politicians. I guess I'm biased because I'm old friends with some members of the family. But I have deeply admired how some Kennedys have sustained sobriety. It's not easy for addicts. And as a society, we should do more to support sobriety and less to demonize and criminalize addicts. Patrick deserves no legal special treatment; he shouldn't be let off the hook if he did something wrong. But he also needs help. I hope he gets it.

[Island Blue]

6. I agree with him 100% on this issue.

My extended family is littered with good people who have suffered from one form of addition or another. It's so genetically hardwired in my family that it's scary. I hope Patrick can get the help he needs, and perhaps when he's well, he can bring badly needed attention to the fact that there are precious few treatment facilities in the US. (At least there are few that the common folk can afford.)

[rox63]

7. Both Of Patrick Kennedy's parents have had problems

with substance abuse. So it's not suprising that their kids do as well. It's sounds like He's been fairly open about his past struggles, which is a good thing. It means his constituents have stood behind him anyway. I hope they'll stick with him through this as well. But it's a bummer that it had to happen during an election year.

[MH1]

24. Fired for illness...I think not.

I'm not sure of the current legal status of addiction, but if I understand correctly, one of the minor improvements in our labor laws is that a person cannot be fired for getting sick. If addiction is seen as illness, then it would be treated the same way.

In any case, in most decent companies that I'm familiar with (and I've worked and consulted at a few), a person would not get fired for admitting an addiction problem. In fact most company health plans pay for some amount of rehab, and there is a "work-life balance" service that provides basic counseling for such things.

Your other points may be true but I don't think it's fair to say that someone would typically be fired for this. Maybe a counter person at McDonald's would be, but I don't think that is true at all for a typical office job. (Of course it probably also depends on whether the person's been there 2 months, 2 years, or 20 years.)

[beachmom]

26. Please see my comment #5 n/t

[MH1]

29. Okay; but I'm just being a stickler here on the "firing" thing, which AS

doesn't address directly.

AS speaks of "compassion." (Which I agree with and am happy to see, although if AS still calls himself a republican than he is still a self-loathing twit.) But, I really want to debunk this notion (that the rw is no doubt using heavily) that someone would typically be fired for this. I could be mistaken, but I really, really don't think so.

I'm glad you agree with AS' point, and that is really the larger point; however I am sick and tired (aren't we all) of the right wing blithely throwing out these false premises to their arguments, and people just taking it at face value.

Someone may come up with all sorts of reasons to claim that the person "doesn't deserve our compassion." However that is neither here nor there to whether they could legally be fired - or actually would be likely to be fired - from a typical job for this situation.

[beachmom]

30. Yeah, I agree -- a couple of exceptions though

If the person goes through rehab (usually paid for by the co.) and then continues to fall off the wagon, then they can be fired (I know someone like this).

Also -- the DUI charge. For accountants, if you are arrested DUI you lose your certification as a CPA. Conceiveably, you could also lose your job, since you no longer have that qualification.

I knew someone at my work who got a DUI charge, and missed the next day's work without explanation because he was in jail. He got a letter of reprimand in his file, but was not fired. However, if it happened again, he would be fired.

As far as an election goes, it's up to the constituents.

[saracat]

11. Funny how he has done an exemplary job in spite of this!

I don't think he has fallen off the wagon at all! There is no evidence that he has gone back to abusing anything. He appears to be a victim of a poorly considered prescription by a doctor who should have known better! If he was going to be "distracted' he would have been "distracted " long ago and not done such a good job. I can't believe how many people are both not taking his word and are making this worse than it is!

[beachmom]

27. Please see my comment #5 n/t

[rox63]

4. My reaction to the concept of this bringing down Uncle Teddy?

:spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :crazy: :silly: :boring: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[sandnsea]

9. No kidding

[sandnsea]

8. What'd I miss? Did he shoot somebody IN THE FACE!!!

Not ONE word about Dick Cheney and drinking and changing stories and cops not even responding and making appointments and NO blood tests and on and on...

Nope, in all the talk about preferential treatment, not ONE WORD about our esteemed VP shooting a man IN THE FRIGGIN' FACE.

Brian Williams had the nerve to say "Two Breaking Stories", as IF a Congressman going to treatment is anywhere NEAR the same as the CIA Director possibly being involved in bribery and sex scandals.

Argh.

[karynnj]

10. My guess is that he's not the only Congressman to have

drug or alcohol problems. The sex and bribery really is so much bigger in so many ways. It will be interesting to see who else was involved. I wonder if the Goss resignation, which was sudden was done after the Kennedy story broke yesterday.

It's all over RW radio - and they are claiming he's being treated better because he's a liberal - which I guess is why it's the top story.

[Island Blue]

12. Yes, liberals always get treated better by the MSM.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I agree, the sex and bribery scandal is a much bigger story. For Porter Goss to abruptly resign, it must be HUGH!!!!11111!!! I have a feeling it's going to make Bill Clinton's bj pale by comparison. Of course because Clinton is a liberal (well, sort of) his indiscretion was handled with kid gloves by the media.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[sandnsea]

13. Scarborough was actually fair

He said of course Congressmen get preferential treatment and the truth of the matter is that if this had NOT been a Kennedy, we wouldn't even have heard about it.

The he goes on to say... "I've never gotten preferential treatment...(insert screeching noises here) I mean, you know, for a vehicle accident or drinking... (phew, crash averted)..."

You could almost see the wheels turning, when is this segment going to be over...

[Inuca]

28. He actually went further than that

AFter Tucker Carlson said some extremely nasty things about P Kennedy (how nobody likes him, arrogant, etc.), Scarborough went to say that in his experience it is quite the other way, that he well liked, nice to everybody, etc.

[JohnKleeb]

14. WWFPG

Who would fuck Porter Goss? Yuck.

[jillan]

21. There you go again...

talking about repugs and sex in the same sentence.;)

John, is there something deep in your subconscience that is trying to come out.??:tinfoilhat:

(you know I'm just giving you a hard time - right?)

[TayTay]

15. Why Patrick will get re-elected.

1983 - 1991. The Senior Senator from Massachusetts drinks again, alone in a bar. He has borne the burden of the family expectations. He tried, at the age of 48, to launch a bid for President of the United States. He failed, but the attempt was made. (There was this famous interview in which the Senator could not really put into words why he was running for President, just that he needed to run. That helped sink his bid.) The Senator's marriage is falling apart. His son had cancer diagnosed at the age of 13 and the Senator was going back and forth from DC to Boston to attend cancer treatments for that child, who ended up losing a leg.

This Senator had lost all his older brothers before he turned 32. One died in WWII. The other two were assasinated. They left behind more than a dozen kids, and the Senator had 3 of his own to raise. Around 1984, rumors surface in the Boston press that this Senator might not run again for his seat. He is burnt out and wondering what else he has left to give. Who wants this has-been from a family whose time is in the past?

The Senator stays in his seat and even scores some victories in the increasingly conservative atmosphere of Washington DC. He manages to be the principal voice that ends up defeating Robert Bork for the Supreme Court. However, the drinking, the family problems and the burden of being 'Uncle Ted' to a very large brood of kids takes it's toll. In 1991, this Senator's voice is muted in the debate on Clarence Thomas and that seat on the Supreme Court. There was this rape case involving a sister's child and the Senator was slimed by the press. He could not press the moral issues in the Judiciary Committee against Thomas because charges of hypocrisy would come up. Thomas is confirmed.

The other bachelor Senator from MA, who had gone through his own painful divorce, occassionaly wound up 'on the town' with The Senator. This was not the best time for either one of them. (But might explain a bit of a bond, when you come to think of it.) The other bachelor Senator is dealing with a lot of issues that tie up a war that he fought in and that left scars. These are not dry policy issues all the time. Some of this stuff has bite to it and it exacts a price.

The Senator has a conservative Mormon friend from Utah in the Senate who takes him aside and tells him that at the rate he is going he will be dead within a few years. The Senator meets a good woman who renews him. They marry and The Senator is noticeably more invigorated and interested in life. The bachelor Senator from MA also is fortunate enough to meet a good woman who has a noticeable effect on him and his outlook on life. (There is something softer there, some of the sharper edges go away, he is more human and more approachable.

The Senator goes through a fairly tough re-election campaign. At first people predict that The Senator will be tripped up by his age, his own rustiness at running tough re-elections, but The Senator puts together a great effort and shows all kinds of energy that has been missing in the last few years. People want to root for him again and he wins a big victory. Likewise, his colleague shows a great deal of energy and renewed interest in the voters and in their problems in his next re-election bid and pulls of a substantial victory.

The Senator loses more nephews in the next few years. One dies from drugs, two more in accidents. There are always rumors of drug-abuse among the second generation kids. Always. It follows them like a cloud as do the strange rumors that they have gotten special treatment. (Perhaps the Bush family would like to have the Special Treatment that this family has gotten. Perhaps the deaths that occurred in public service, the children left without fathers, the expectations that mere human beings cannot meet would all be as nothing to the Bushes, but regular humans should know better.) Yet, curiously, The Senator seems to have found his zest for life again. His campaign for his friend for President was a mostly joyous occasion and The Senator was one of the more optimistic figures on the campaign trail.

*************

The point of this is to consider the cost of this. Patrick Kennedy, Congressman from RHODE ISLAND, had the advantage of the Kennedy name in getting elected. He also had cancer in his family as a kid growing up that affected his schedule and his home life. His mother was and is an alcoholic who resists treatment. And his father had his own well-known battles with the bottle. The Kennedy name giveth and the Kennedy name taketh away. That is what we know in Massachusetts. That is why we don't just desert these people. We know them. They are a part of our history. They might just be a reason why the good taller Senator from MA so jealously kept his daughter's out of the news and out of the public eye during their formative years. (This was an amazing thing. That they raised such wonderful and strong and independent women is a real testament to them as people and as parents.)

Yeah, we cut the Kennedy's some slack. Sometimes when you see Patrick, you see John-John and wonder what might have been. You see Bobby or Robert Jr and you wonder what it would have been like if RFK had just not run for President. You worry about any other liberals from Massachusetts who run and if someone might like to take a shot at them, cuz it has happened before. You see them and you see those bright shiny dreams of taking a nation forward, of people who dream of equality and civil rights and health care for all and of trying to raise minimum wage for the working poor and so forth and you remember that all those bright shiny dreams exact a severe cost. You rememb er who is dead in that family because of shiny dreams, and the all too human people who could not bear the cost of that and those awful expectations.

Yeah, I see that in Patrick and I cut him some slack. Cuz he's a Kennedy and that cuts both ways. I ope Patrick gets the help he needs. This is hardly 'The Curse of the Kennedys.' After all, nobody died in this one. Nobody died.

[JohnKleeb]

16. Which Utah senator was it?

It's so sad what he's gone through. Three brothers and a sister dying in tragic circumances including two murdered. It's amazing how tough he's been. I can't imagine losing a parent muchless a brother. I guses that's why I am a little more easy to be upset at Teddy Kennedy jokes.

[TayTay]

17. Orrin Hatch saved his life

Say what you will about Hatch, he saved Teddy's life.

And, while I am 'being Irish' about all this for a second, (cue the soft sad fiddle) think for a second about that other Senator from MA. I meant what I said about him. He went through his own very tough time back in the early '90s. It was not easy to go back to Vietnam and go through those talks that led to normalization. Not all those ghosts were buried. It was not a good time. But it was a very noble service that was performed for this nation. And it also exacted a severe price.

[JohnKleeb]

18. I don't like hte man's politics but you know

It's been getting to a point where I have a hard time hating people personally. Yes, I've got a lot of anger inside of me but I believe truly that people are basically good. Returning to Vietnam and all the inner demons Kerry must have had had to be an amazing experience. Kennedy especially is proof that tragedy shows no bearing to class. Kennedys really are among the best political families this nation has had.

[TayTay]

19. What always gets me is that they get up again.

I met Matt Kennedy, The Senator's grand-nephew, a couple of months ago. (Twice, as a matter of fact and I hope to see him again at the State Conv. in June.) He is running his Uncle's Senate campaign. His twin brother is in the Dominican Republic, doing volunteer work for the Peace Corp. I wondeer why that wasn't on the news?

And yeah, all service exacts a price. It did for my taller Senator as well. His second marriage made a noticeable difference in his demeanor. It really did have an effect. That burden thing lessened.

[JohnKleeb]

20. You know how news is

Its gotta be negative for it to be there. I learned this in Journalism. I've read that Kerry's anti Vietnam activism resulted in rocks being thrown at the house he and the late Julia Thorne had and Vanessa was nearly hit. I guess this is why I have a hard time treating a man like Kerry like a regular politican. Kerry's worked so hard and risked so much.

[karynnj]

22. It was really great that he met Teresa when he did

and that she cared enough to convince him to trust in their relationship. During the campaign, he seemed so much happier whenever she was campaigning with him. I would think the Iraq trips were incredible ly hard for the same reason.

[beachmom]

25. Thanks for explaining the "Kennedy mystique"

I cannot tell a lie that I grew up in the Reagan era, and never was that enamored with the Kennedy family. The interesting thing is how it's not just liberals in Mass. who love that family. I still remember my Republican friend who comes from Mass. (oh, excuse me, former Republican, she voted for Kerry in '04) talking on and on when JFK Jr. died. I just didn't understand why it was that big a deal. Your wonderful story and perspective helps to understand better.

He went through his own very tough time back in the early '90s. It was not easy to go back to Vietnam and go through those talks that led to normalization. Not all those ghosts were buried. It was not a good time. But it was a very noble service that was performed for this nation. And it also exacted a severe price.

That is very helpful as well to explain the unsatisfying "I was young and single" remark. Nobody's perfect but it all seemed out of character. Pain can make ordinarily good people go off the deep end for a while. So glad he met Teresa and at least tame the demons.

[ginnyinWI]

35. thanks for this post, TayTay

It was really beautiful. :hug:

[fedupinBushcountry]

23. They just had it on our local news

it was pretty fair, and it was not the lead story. They did show his car, and I also noticed he still has his John Kerry sticker on. They were also talking about the reaction to people in R.I., and they still love Patrick and hope for a speedy recovery. The repubs think they can spin this, but it just won't work IMO.

[Inuca]

31. Can somebody please explain

what addiction to pain medication actually means? Silly question maybe, but I don't know the answer. What does it do to you?

[karendc]

32. Addiction

is complex, but some people have the kind of nrerve receptors that both crave and cannot process some types of chemicals.

These folks are prone to addiction to anything that provides pleasurable chemicals, and they will persist at meeting that craving no matter what the negative side effects.

My own exampe is an ex-husband, now 11 years clean, who suffered from panic attacks for years, beginning in his teen years. Drugs and alchohol became a way of numbing the panic. It didn;t matter what he gave up; something new would come along that would take the edge off the panic. Oh, and ruin his life too.

Patrick Kennedy is lucky to have the wisdom and examples of how NOT to recover and how to recover well all around him. He copped to the problem right away and is getting the assistance he needs. For the rest of us, Ambien is about to get a great deal of attention.

[TayTay]

33. Patrick Kennedy's re-election is up to the RI folks

But I don't think this will be that big a factor. He has been a very good Rep. There were a number of people who wanted him to run for Senator against Chafee. I think his present troubles answer the question of why he so adamantly didn't want to run.

I am glad he is getting help. That was not an easy family to grow up in.

[ray of light]

34. Actually, I believe he has gained power from this incident

because when he returns from rehab he will have the upper hand on being able to say he got help. He'll be able to not have something that someone could use to threaten him if it was hidden or unknown.

I think he needs to frame it about taking on his problems face on, being strong and tackling the issues he had, and that he's stronger as a result. Then let him take on the FDA and the pharma companies who don't tell people about these risks.

[ginnyinWI]

36. What I admired about his statement

was that there wasn't a whiff of excuse-making or blame-shifting. How refreshing in this "Era of Bush", where it is always someone else's fault with them, even if they have to blame our troops!

Patrick Kennedy is a class act, no question. I think that RI knows this and will re-elect.