IVAW statement about Jesse MacBeth

[MH1]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1298116&mesg_id=1298116

Didn't the FBI successfully infiltrate Winter Soldier and then the right wingers used the fake vets (all 1 or 2 of them) to try to debunk everything that was said?

This seems similar. Or maybe in both cases it is just screwed up individuals looking for attention?

Should we stock up on Reynolds Wrap?

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btw I'm not at all sure I have the facts on the Winter Soldier thing. I know that wingers like to say that the vets weren't really vets and the stories were made up. I recall seeing something that seemed credible that identified one or two of the guys weren't really vets, but everyone else was. And we know that things like those stories happened - plenty of other evidence has surfaced since. Anyway if I am understanding this correctly then it is a perfect example of why fakes like MacBeth need to be identified and debunked by the movement ASAP.

[beachmom]

1. The minute I heard of this guy's video here on DU

I knew it was untrue. It was too preposterous and ridiculous, especially since we have a very professional military. And it made me think back to the Winter Soldiers and question all THEY said, too. So, you know, mission accomplished for the right wing, right? There was also a story about a soldier from the Iraq War who had PTSD and later committed suicide who had made up stories that everyone around him said was false, but he was literally out of his mind.

Kerry has been talking a lot about "telling the truth", and I have taken this to heart. All stories need to be properly vetted, double checked, triple checked. The problem with the Winter Soldier meeting was there was no way at that time to corroborate the stories. But if you look at My Lai and the Tiger story, those were definitely true. The hard part is looking at Haditha, and then realizing if the Iraqi college student hadn't filmed the aftermath, the Iraqi human rights group hadn't taken up the cause, and Time magazine hadn't run with the story, well then -- the whole thing would have been swept under the rug and any further reports would have been labeled "terrorist propaganda", because our guys DON'T kill men, women, and children in cold blood.

[ProSense]

2. Great point!

I also found the story fishy! I really am starting to think these fakes stories are designed to cast doubt on all such stories.

[karynnj]

3. I know that another leader, Al Hubbard

fabricated his story claiming a higher rank and more action than he had - and that Kerry called him out on it publicly (the description sounded like the Allard comments) with Kerry many times saying that because of that nothing he (Hubbard) could say could be believed. This was also when Kerry quit so it might have been that Kerry wanted to pull more people away from the VVAW.

I think that the full tape and stories had already been given to Senator McGovern (I think) and many of the people had been checked out prior to Kerry's appearance. Kerry was more an obsever than anything else at the Winter Soldier hearings and he did never said he could vouch for the stories of others. (He was naive in one quote saying something to the effect that no one would lie about such things as they were things that would cause people to think badly of them. )

The point is though they gave what they had to the government and the government, not a group of young vets had the ability to investigate the stories. There clearly wasn't massive fraud or the government would have made a huge issue about it and I know that didn't happen. The other thing is that the things Kerry spoke of personally knowing were official policy and wrong. They were the things that happened daily (or at least close to daily).