fucking assholes

[JI7]

why are some people such assholes ?

[globalvillage]

1. Interesting post.

I give up.

[globalvillage]

2. Nevermind. I see it.

[JohnKleeb]

3. I don't know

Lotta assholes in LBN today honestly. I see it now too btw. Jeez it's all about me, me, me, Kerry didn't fight for me blah blah. Damned if Kerry does, damned if he don't.

[JI7]

4. the Freepers have like 3+ threads on this recent stuff

one thread with over 300 posts. and all of them STILL attacking Kerry on his service. and some "dems" will say it's because Kerry didn't fight hard enough.

[JohnKleeb]

5. Gah

He's doing the right thing would they rather him not say or do anything. He's trying to help the Vets running for Congress so they won't be attacked in the same way. It's sad really how liberals can spin facts just as much and willingly as the Bill O'Reillys of the world.

[Mass]

6. Definitively. And they cant even get their story straight.

[politicasista]

7. agree n/t

[ProSense]

8. They're so disingenuous!

Some of them belong to the Swift Liars -- Left Chapter! They know damn well the other post exists and just needed to start a bashing thread.

Pathetic assholes!

[Mass]

9. I agree. I dont see the difference between the Swift Liars and some

of these people. This is crazy.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Saw the person saying get over Vietnam

I'd like to see that said to people who lost family and friends there. My dad had a friend in high school who died over there. I know that Kerry lost his friends Don Droz and Pershing I forget his first name, Richard I think.

[JI7]

13. yeah

and especially on the eve of Memorial day. ughhhhhhhhhh

[JohnKleeb]

14. Yep

I've seen that poster do that in many Kerry threads. It's hard to get over something where you had people that you considered close friends die. I remember my grandfather telling me about friends he lost in Korea. My dad tells me that his uncle who was a chaplain in WWII became an alcoholic as a result of what he saw. War changes you forever.

[ProSense]

18. I responded:

During the Vietnam war 3,100,000 served Southeast Asia, more than 58,410 died and 153,000 plus were wounded. Currently more than 8 million Vietnam era veterans are still living. That translates to a lot of people connected to a lot of other people.

Vietnam vets can be as young as their early 50s. They are parents and grandparents, friends and spouses. On the families’ side, there are many who losts parents, spouses and loved ones in Vietnam. I guess the assumption is that every Vietnam vet is in full health, with full benefits and families and veterans aren’t having to cope (still) with the aftermath of Vietnam.

Beyond the age of veterans, the longest war in U.S. history is pretty relevant for a host of other reasons only 32 years after it ended. Or is it the only war (tragic as they all are) that deserves the distinction of being irrelevant?

We’re 61 years removed from World War II and George Bush draws parallels to that war and Iraq every opportunity he gets. Strange how he skips over the obvious parallels between Iraq and Vietnam (lies).

[karynnj]

36. As Iraq looks more and more like Vietnam,

Kerry ignoring or not speaking of all he knew would be a disserve.

[JohnKleeb]

37. Way some of his detractors in the party talk

like "Shut up Kerry!" "You sold us out so you can't talk"
Agree it would be a disservice. Iraq's turned in ot a massive civil war. Worst thing that I see happening is Iraq becomes like Iran.

[karynnj]

74. That person is simply repeating a RW justification of the SBVT

THat Kerry ran on Vietnam. We all know that his speech had a few minutes on Iraq and many on Kerry's view of what we need to do in the future.

In fainess, I think that many visual images from the convention did have a military or patriotic image. This was intentional and it was reasserting that the flag is bi-partisan. From the exit polls the only issue Bush had in his favor was national security. Kerry did close part of that gap. The convention theme likely helped on that.

What the RW was really saying was "how dare Kerry challange the Republicans on their own ground saying that he, a liberal Democrat, was a patriot." Ask yourself, will McCain include more minutes on being in Vietnam than Kerry did? Would any genuine war hero with the record Kerry had not mention at all that he fought? Which is all Kerry did.

The other thing they ignore is that after Kerry speaks of going to war, he speaks of coming back home to fight the war he thought was wrong. Kerry's biography is covered very very quickly in the speech to reserve time for him to speak of what he would do as President. The other RW comment is he said little on his Senate career. He had a 60 minute speech.

The main person simply supported and supports another candidate - I questioned wheether Clark should mention Kosovo. Vietnam is woven through Kerry's biography - he was a warrior and protest leader and then lead the reconciliation. These are major parts of his biography, even without considering the veteran support issues.

[JI7]

11. yeah

"get over Vietnam" is what the wingers say anytime Kerry defends himself. i remember that was how they would report on his response to the swiftboat liars.

[JohnKleeb]

12. Pretty sick that they could say that to a man who lost friends there

and was the key point of his life.

[politicasista]

15. he's playing into their hands talking about Vietnam again

:sarcasm:

[JohnKleeb]

16. Yeah let's not talk about the war

that changed America and divided a nation. :sarcasm:

[politicasista]

17. definitely n/t

[JohnKleeb]

19. It's amazing that people want to forget Vietnam

You can't understand the future if you don't understand the past.

[MH1]

71. The one poster is a major Clark supporter

I have suspected also paid, but that's neither here nor there.

I told them that if that is Wes Clark's position - that Vietnam is irrelevant - I will actively oppose him for the nomination. I just think that idea is friggin stupid beyond belief, and I intend to call them on it whenever I see it.

[FrenchieCat]

73. Wes Clark doesn't pay people to post on websites......

He doesn't have that kind of loot, nor that kind of staff. I believe that he has 3 or 4 people that work for him at Wespac.

"suspect" is a word that should be avoided.....as it means not much more than nothing.

Anyone doing anything is doing it his/her own name...not in the name of Wes Clark. Try to remember this.

[ProSense]

20. All these people with their spineless Dems screams, yet

they whine as if they're are afraid to talk about Vietnam because the RW owns the topic. Idiots!


Democrats should be screaming it from the top of a mountain.

[JohnKleeb]

21. They only like Democrats who stroke their egos

They don't like possibly being wrong.

[ProSense]

53. After my most recent post, I'll say it again

disingenuos!

[JohnKleeb]

22. Too little, too late

:eyes: I bet you that poster doesn't feel the same way about Gore. I don't hate or dislike Gore but it's a bunch of bs to white wash the truth to bash Kerry.

[politicasista]

23. I am a Gore fan too and I feel the same way n/t

[JohnKleeb]

25. They both would be excellent presidents in different ways

But people think bashing Kerry and acting like he had an easy to win election and Gore's mistakes shouldn't be forgotten. Every campaign has mistakes. There's no such thing as a flawless campaign.

[politicasista]

26. This is what I was talking about

Didn't quite come out clear though.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273x88614

[fedupinBushcountry]

27. You know

the one's who bash him the most do not even know what was happening back in '04, because they were to damn fucking busy whining about their candidate's loss in the primary. I doubt they put much effort in Kerry's campaign at all, if any.

They are cowardly and they deserve a place right next to the swifties in hell.

[JohnKleeb]

29. You're absolutely right

They were too busy whining about how Kerry rigged the Iowa caucus though rigging a caucus is as easy as kissing your own ass. Yeah most of them were simply ABB and didn't give a damn that Kerry would assert real change.

[sandnsea]

52. Which leads to my new approach

Which is to ask them what they did in August 2004 to rebut the attacks.

They either have to admit they were relevant and used the rebuttal the campaign put out. OR expose themselves as somebody who did nothing except bitch then either.

I think if we do this enough, they will stop posting that particular line of shit about fighting back.

I also think if we ask the 'didn't fight for me' bunch to list their evidence to convict Bush, that it will shut them up too.

Some of the posts the last couple of days have really made my blood boil.

[JohnKleeb]

57. You know what some of them did

You were here. They were whining becausea the convention wasn't the Friars Club Roast of George W. Bush or that Kerry himself set up the Free Speech Zones (reminds me to add that to my list of all the evil things Senator Kerry has done) Gee we're trying to get support for a presidential election we want to tell the people baout what we're going to do not how Bush is the most evil person ever and there were disses at Bush at the convention too. I don't know what they all did but I know what I did. I went to a town that I had never been to before in suburban Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in the rain on a bus with no one I knew to try to get people to vote for Kerry. I passed out literature at the school even though I was feeling sick at the end of the day. I talked a friend of mine who was unsure of who to vote for to vote for Kerry. I defended my party's nominee against false bullshit that was said about him.

[sandnsea]

60. I refer to the Swift Boaters specifically

Not campaigning in general because I know lots of people did that and worked really really hard. Harder than me for sure because it was pretty clear to locals that Oregon was going to go Kerry pretty early, and my town is so small anyway.

But the ones who say he didn't fight back over the Swifties, well you were here for that shameful episode. I'm sure you remember that at least half the posts were about Kerry should do this or that and where there's smoke there's fire; while the other half of us were busy posting the rebuttals that were coming out. So I'm starting to ask people which side of that they were on; criticizing Kerry or helping to rebut the lies with the facts that were out there.

The one yesterday couldn't or wouldn't relay one thing he told people in August 2004 to rebut the lies. Like I said, it's either because he knew the second he did his whole "Kerry didn't fight the swifties" would blow right up in his face. Or because he sat on the sidelines second-guessing and criticizing every move.

Some days I think we'd have been better off to run -someone else- because I know Kerry supporters wouldn't have played these childish games and might have given -someone else- a better chance to win.

[JohnKleeb]

61. There was a lot of criticism and playing the victim

It was despicable honestly after they had threated the people who had been behind from Kerry from the start. The way some people reacted to Kerry picking Edwards was unbelievable too. I can't imagine what it would have been like if he had chosen Gephardt. There probably would be "I am not voting for him" The problem with some people here on DU is that they think they are all knowing and the "Sheepie" know nothing but the thing is they're just of ignorant as those they make fun of. I mean I remember one time someone criticizing Kerry because he sponsored a bill with a republican senator, I believe Santorum and was trying to use that as leverage against him. The thing that I remember most was someone who actually accused Kerry of the same thing the Swifties did though regarding how he got his silver star.

[sandnsea]

63. And then say the party was united

If that was unity, well heaven help us. And yes, I particularly remember the lefties who piled on with the Kerry shot a kid in the back line, painting troops out as war criminals is the most important thing to some.

[JohnKleeb]

64. They're doing it right now

It's really angering especially because it's Memorial Day. It was fake unity shame really honestly because I thought that if Kerry was elected the extremists would realize that they're wrong but they've gotten worse and worse especially when it comes to dismissing the evils of the world that aren't named George W Bush.

[fedupinBushcountry]

59. I did exactly that

and guess what? No response, because I know and they know they didn't do jackshit. Maybe if we respond this way it will make them go away not all of them but some.

[sandnsea]

62. Were you here in 2004?

I don't remember names and places and whatnot. But this place was just a nightmare. No matter how many times we posted the rebuttals, half the people would keep on with why isn't Kerry fighting, and why doesn't he release his records, and there must be some truth in what the Swifties are saying or they'd fear a libel lawsuit and on and on. I swear it couldn't have been any worse at Free Republic. So while I just don't remember who was who back then, I am going to start challenging them on which side of that fight they were on. If some of them were out there campaigning, then what the hell were they telling people about this stuff. There's no excuse for any DUer who was here at the time to pretend the truth wasn't put out there.

[fedupinBushcountry]

69. I was here

but posted very little, as I was busy on the Kerry blog. I was mainly a lurker as I was busy on the Kerry blog. In fact when I joined in 2003 was how I found JohnKerry.com. They had the candidate's websites, so I went to every one of them except for Lieberman so I could figure out who I wanted to get behind. As you see I chose Kerry. I did post a few times back then and actually had a couple of my posts deleted, didn't swear I just said some one who posted on s supposedly Democratic website was not very democratic. :shrug:

What I did notice now and then is that many just jump on a bandwagon to follow the crowd, like the new fad for the season. This happened in 2004 as the candidate's dropped out. You could see the pattern here and at the Kerry blog.The worse bunch of all are and still remain the Deaniacs, not all there are some that really gave there all for Kerry, but the others were to busy complaining and whining, they could not stand Kerry, because he beat their guy. It was that simple.

The one's who complain the most will never back Kerry, they will say oh I did this and I gave money, but ask them if they really thought Kerry should be the nominee and I think we would see a resounding, NO. So how can they help a cause if they don't really back it?

[Mass]

24. Kerry is too low key to be a good president.

Whatever that means! This one is really stupid.

[ProSense]

28. I laughed, after

the thought crossed my mind to post: That's one of the stupidest things anyone has ever said! Pathetic!

[JohnKleeb]

31. He's a mummy too apparently

:eyes:

[Mass]

32. Sadly, another one who thinks that bashing Kerry will help Gore.

These people are totally stupid.

[JohnKleeb]

34. They really are stupid

I think the mummy argument is trying to say that Kerry is somehow boring, I don't think Gore is the bore he's said to be but more charimsatic than Kerry, please.

[karynnj]

38. Doesn't this tempt you to take a recent Kerry speech and

accidently mislabel it as Clark (or another candidate) to see the response. Kerry's speeches are far better written and forceful than anything I've heard by anyone else.

[JohnKleeb]

39. You're evil

but.................brilliant. Eeny miny mo, catch a double standard by the toe, if he hollers let him go.

[karynnj]

41. The problem is most o us are way to o identified as Kerry supporters.

I really have a hard time parsing the Clark comments that I've been sent to. The Biden stuff is near impossible. In neither case are they explaining things more deeply than Kerry, but I just find Kerry very easy to follow.

[JohnKleeb]

43. Do Biden speeches contain

"Marry me Angelina Jolie and dump that loser Brad Pitt"
Kerry's great honestly because he has a great understanding of global affairs and history which is why I would support him if he runs again. I think he understands the senate the best of any of hte posisble candidates too and that could be a real plus in getting an actual agenda passed through congress.

[karynnj]

48. Biden's speeches have so many strange

twists and turns that they magicly make me seasick and turn my brain off - so it's possible that hidden after that he does ask Jolie to marry him. (Though I think he's already married.)

[JohnKleeb]

50. he's married, tabloids had him flirting with her

Either way he's an interesting guy. He's a typical politican, I don't want him out of the senate because I don't like his votes but he wouldn't make a great president because he's just that a typical politican who floats the way of the wind.

[fedupinBushcountry]

42. That is a great idear

I wonder how many would fall for the bait ?

[JohnKleeb]

44. A good many

I probably would since I am gullable as hell.

[fedupinBushcountry]

45. LOL

:rofl:

[JohnKleeb]

30. You know what pisses me off in general is

this whole "We told you so atitude" to the Democrats in Congress and in general. It's really self righteous and arrogant. The 2006 elections will not be about making Democratic activists look good but rather about fixing the damage this administration has done and the same thing with the presidency. It's not supposed to feed the egos of these people. It's about doing what's good for all of us.

[fedupinBushcountry]

33. In fact Kleeb

if they really took a good look at themselves they would see the likes of a freeper staring them in the face. Me, me, me, me, me................., the heck with everyone else, and if you don't agree with them they start the hateful bashing which is so what a Democrat does not stand for. I really doubt many of them are Dems at all and if they are they should be ashamed.

[JohnKleeb]

35. It's disgusting really

They're just like Nader saying that the two parties are one and the same. I'd like to see that told to someone's life who is actually impacted by Bush's policies. I hate it when they rag on the middle class too but many of them are well to do and they have this disgusting hatred for middle America. Most of us are just trying to make do. I have to say that these extremists don't speak for my vision of America and the world. They don't speak for me and I am sick of their arrogance and how they treat public servants who have done more for regular people than they ever will.

[fedupinBushcountry]

40. You know

my middle son who cast his first vote in 2000 voted for Nader and so did many of his friends. I always forget to ask him why he didn't want Gore, have to put that on my to do list. But anyway he said it was one of the biggest mistakes in his life. In the beginning of '04 he was for Kucinich, if I remember correctly you liked Kucinich and Kerry equally, and then he saw Kerry at a townhall in Iowa and he listened and he really really liked him. He would tell everyone that Kerry doesn't flip-flop and that what is wrong with changing your mind on things, when things are changing around us so rapidly. He would vote for him in a heartbeat, he thinks Kerry is the best politician out there.

So Kleeb you are not alone there are many young minds like yours and many are right here on the Kerry forum who get it.

[JohnKleeb]

47. That's right I alwyas did like Kucinich mostly for economic reasons

I never honestly was impressed by the two DU favorites at that time, Clark and Dean. Now I'd campaigned for them like I did Kerry but I have to say I think Kerry would have made a much better president than either. The man understands how the world works and after taking an international relations course on campus last fall I began to see how complex everything is.

[fedupinBushcountry]

54. I was a member of DU

way back in'03, but did very little posting, but lurked a lot, and when I became active in the Kerry blog I use to keep my eye open on what was being said about Kerry here.

But I remember your posts vividly, you were one of the most reasoned posters , along with Will Pitt and BLM. I really enjoyed reading your take on Kerry and Kucinich.

[JohnKleeb]

55. I appreciate that

I hated the slander people put on Kerry so I felt compelled to defend him. I admit it was sort of for silly reasons I felt that a guy endorsed by Teddy Kennedy couldn't be that bad. This past year though has been an eye opener as I encounter more and more people with differing views, different backgrounds, etc. I felt like the middle man in international relations because some of the lefties were the blame American types that beachmom has talked about and the more hawkish people didn't see why Vietnam was a mistake. It was a nice class of course and I liked the people in it. I kind of sometimes feel like an outsider on DU because I don't have the aminsotiy towards religion and faith that some folks do, I have to say that I think my faith got stronger by realixing just how lucky I am. I still thikn it's hilarious that a man that shares a nearly identical voting record with Teddy Kennedy is ocnsidered too moderate for some people on DU but a key player in the moving the party to the center is regarded as a liberal.

[MH1]

70. Explains Bush's 30% approval rating, (Why so high?)

That's what I told one of them when they continued to bash Kerry even after being presented with facts.

[politicasista]

46. This thread is similiar to a great rant

that WEL posted back in December. I feel the same way she did and would laugh too if this happened.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=273&topic_id=59192#59305

[JohnKleeb]

49. I miss her

I haven't been on AIM because i am on the laptop that has troubles with the connection there. I'd laugh too honestly if one of these people called Kerry a closet Republican warmongrel blah blah blah his face. Never really saw too much confrontion during my time in Washington.

[ProSense]

51. Upon request

I posted the text of the Kerry video that's linked in the Research Forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2651541&mesg_id=2651704

[fedupinBushcountry]

56. That clip

brought tears to my eyes. :cry: Thank you, after the bashing that went on here all day, it was so good to see. :hug:

[ProSense]

58. Makes me

want to cry too how stupid and deceptive people are. Thanks for the :hug:

[ProSense]

65. Where's DD?

She posted an awesome response!


:applause:


Damn that was good!

[_dynamicdems]

72. Looks around....me? n/t

[_dynamicdems]

66. They sure the Hell are!

Personally, I blame Bush. Too many chemicals in the drinking water since he took office. People are deranged.

[Mass]

67. Apparently, we have somebody who can read Teresa Heinz's mind

in this thread as well.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.