It's that desperate -- we MUST get out of Iraq!!!!!

[beachmom]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1309987

This just puts it all together, how bad it is there, the impotence of the American troops to stop the sectarian violence, and awful, awful stuff about even MORE atrocities committed by American troops (per the WP, mind you).

What are we going to do to stop this war -- well, we CAN'T stop the Iraq civil war, that is impossible, but can we get our troops out of there, so they aren't making things worse than they already are? From the article, sounds to me like there is a pseudo withdrawal happening -- into the bases. That or there are not enough troops to secure Baghdad as well as other parts of the country. Either way, we can't stop the violence there, so why don't we at least stop our part in the violence by leaving?

[ginnyinWI]

1. On Countdown tonight they had Col. Jack Jacobs, ret.

He said that they were unwilling to commit the required amount of troops at the beginning and so the troops they did send were squandered--that's the word he used. And now we still don't have enough to do any real good. And almost half of them now are Reserves and Guards.

It's nothing but a shooting gallery--how are they supposed to "fight" car bombs and IED's? No wonder they feel like just shooting everybody in sight--because they don't know who the enemy is. It's a horrible situation and a total waste.

And we all know who the guy was with the brilliant idea to fight a war "on the cheap" was--Rummy--and he's still there!

[karynnj]

2. Wow

Wasn't Jacobs pretty gung ho - this sounds like Kerry starting in March.

[babylonsister]

3. Jacobs also said dimson has an exit strategy; if that's true,

he and Blair surely didn't mention it when they had their press conference last week.
All I got out of that (besides dimson's fake remorse) was Blair warning us about the
brutal summer ahead. I think Jacobs is still an apologist for this admin, though less
so now that he's seeing which way the wind is blowing.

[beachmom]

4. SOME conservatives DO acknowledge the truth, but haven't quite

accepted the solution (troop withdrawals):

Sully:

I pass along the following pieces of grim news simply out of a duty to notice them. A reader told me today that he could no longer read the blog because it was so depressing. I try and cheer it up with funny links, videos, the windows series, and so on. But the news from the great struggle of our time is currently pretty grim. We have the worst rioting in Afghanistan since the liberation; we have news of possibly the worst American atrocity of the war in Haditha; we have Anbar province going backwards not forwards in Iraq; we have basic infrastructure in Iraq deteriorating; we have a massive hunger-strike at Gitmo; and we have a collapse of morale at home. There are ways to hope; and there is a case for patience. But this blog, unlike some others, is not into denial.

When is "decent interval" talk going to start?

[TayTay]

5. Jack Murtha is the 'point guy' on this traumatic event.

We know that Sen. Kerry has been talking with the good Cong. from PA. I wonder if Sen. Kerry also knew about the Haditha massacre and if knowledge of it was in his mind when he wrote his speech on dissent for April delivery.

Just wondering. That speech reads like something awful had happened and that there was absolutely no going back from that point. I wonder if this was it.

[wisteria]

6. You may be right about the speech.

I caught Murtha on a couple of programs Monday and Tuesday, he did a good job defending his sources and his position on this terrible incident.

[beachmom]

7. The Time magazine story ran in March, so yes

I'll have to be honest with you guys. I was at the library, and had picked up that Time magazine to read a different article, and came upon the story "One Morning in Haditha" (which should win an award IMO). My first reaction was frankly denial. NO!! It was a mistake; our troops would NEVER do that. I didn't tell a soul of what I read. It was Murtha standing up and speaking about it that made me realize that it was, in fact, true, and worse than what was reported. So here was the timeline:

Atrocity -- November
Election -- December
Delays of forming a government -- 4 months
Bombing of Samarra shrine -- February 22, 2005 (hey if everyone remembers 9/11 for us, then we should memorize THEIR date that will live in infamy)
Full scale civil war killing 1000 Iraqis -- immediately after
John Kerry proposal of deadlines and withdrawal -- April
Iraqis sort of form a government -- May 20
Murtha confirms atrocity is true -- May

But I actually watched Democracy Now! yesterday (I never watch that lefty show, but they had in depth info on Haditha and Iraq), and the weird thing was the reaction from Iraq about what Murtha said and the military has said. Mostly silence and quiet. The reason? Because both atrocities and innocent civilians killed by mistake are being committed EVERY DAY by militias, terrorists, and, yes, Americans (like checkpoints, for example). Somebody wrote an LTE in today's paper talking like Murtha was egging on the insurgency to kill more Americans. What a joke. As if the insurgency hasn't been killing Americans EVERY DAY. No. Murtha's speech was for the U.S. and the West, but not for the Iraqis who already knew the truth.

[TayTay]

8. We have to get 'our kids' out of there.

My gawd, this is so awful. I also get Cong. Murtha's point that the circumstances of extreme stress and high-level command incompetence helped create some of the circumstances that led to this type of event being possible. (This is not excusing those troops who participated in a massacre. But it is saying that the circumstances were ripe *for* it to happen.)

I feel so awful for the poor people of Iraq who just want to get their lives back and take care of their kids and go about living. Their world has been so shattered.

[karynnj]

9. Unfortunately, I think you are correct

It is logical to assume that the reason there was so little attention given to it in Iraq is that it is common. It really does sound like it was in Vietnam and also answers people who questioned Kerry's comments that these things happened routinely. Just from reading the Iraqi blogs (and posting some for us) and the news accounts, we're hearing all this - and believing it.

I briefly switched on one of the RW talk shows, the things they are saying about Murtha are incredible and sick. He is incredibly brave to be the one taking their hatred on this. Even his long military career and Congressional history as a conservative Democrat hawk has provided no protection. I'm glad that he and Kerry are talking because in an odd way, Kerry might be one of the few people who knows what he is going through - Kerry thought his service and obvious patriotism would allow him to say what needed to be said in 1971. It didn't in 1971 and, for Murtha, it didn't in 2006.