Greg Palast's new article - full of lies and smears

[WildEyedLiberal]

Seriously, Greg Palast is about as credible as a right-wing hack when it comes to "journalism." All his articles ever consist of are his childish rants disguised as "fact" because... well, because he says so, and he's Greg Palast, and therefore you should just automatically trust that what he's saying is true.

Now he's spreading the LIE that Kerry "called his lawyers off" in Ohio and "immediately surrendered." You can find this article posted elsewhere on DU.

Unsurprisingly, the trolls jumped all over it immediately.

[Mass]

1. The article is about democrats in general, not Kerry in particular.

I chose to ignore the thread. It is a loss of time and energy for nothing.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. There are specific quotes about Kerry "giving up" in there

And the trolls are having a heyday with it.

Since what they are saying is absolutely provably false, it's worth it to discredit their lies.

[Mass]

4. Same handful of trolls as usual and they probably would have missed

the reference to Kerry.

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. It was quoted in a snip in the OP

The OP was obviously designed to juxtapose Kerry's "surrender" with Obrador.

[TayTay]

3. The New York Times has a different perspective on this today

A very different perspective. I would be very, very careful before I said the Mexican election was stolen. There have been people from the Lopez Obrador campaign that were at the polls who said that no one the things alleged impacted the vote.

This smells like another setup wherein libs get their hopes up and it doesn't pan out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/world/americas/14mexico.html

Ahm, Palast may be seeing only part of the evidence and not getting the whole truth on it.

[Mass]

5. I dont know what the truth is in Mexico, but I would not take the NYTimes

at his word on that. They are the same newspaper who refuses to report seriously on irregularities in Ohio, so I am not that surprised that they dismiss the Obrador claim.

This said, I think that what Palast is happy about is that Obrador is contesting the election. This is what he wanted Kerry (and Gore though I am not sure how he would have done after the SC decision) to do. I agree it was not difficult to do, but it is what he wanted.

[ProSense]

6. It's their little convenient untruth.

Keeps them relevant, as if election fraud and the assault on voting rights isn't enough, they have to sensationalize it and attack others to prove that they're tops on the subject. Why is it that no one mentions that none of these people for all the screaming that they do ever show up regularly on programs that would expose this to a mass audience? I know RFK Jr. is more high profile, but if they actually started making the case without the hysteria, maybe they'd show up on Lou Dobbs (another DU favorite). Come to think of it: why aren't they on Lou Dobbs?

Speaking of facts:

August 31, 2005

Kerry and Edwards to Stay in Recount Case!!! Trial to Start in August 2006

Don McTigue, attorney for John Kerry and John Edwards, appeared in federal court in Toledo, before Judge Carr, on August 30th, and told the Court that Kerry and Edwards intend to remain in the case.

Judge Carr set an August 22, 2006 trial date.

Additionally he consolidated the two recount cases, Rios v. Blackwell and Yost v. Cobb & Badnarik. He gave the plaintiffs until September 15th to file amended pleadings (plaintiff's counsel had requested an opportunity to streamline their claims).

Judge Carr set a discovery cut-off of May 1, 2006, and ruled that any summary judgment motions must be made by May 15, 2006.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2005/08/kerry-and-edwards-to-stay-in-recount.html

[WildEyedLiberal]

8. I posted your awesome research in that thread

Where unsurprisingly it is being met by a chorus of "la la la, I can't hear you."

How immature and pathetic people become when proved to be wrong.

[ProSense]

10. Cool! This is why

JK is so inspiring. It's one thing to point out what's wrong (or even complain) and learn from it and channel this knowledge into positive ideas and action, but it's another thing entirely to just complain.

[Mass]

9. There is an excellent post in this thread, though it is kind of drowned

in the middle of the battle.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=222257&mesg_id=222268

It addresses the core of the problem.

[politicasista]

11. Confused about Ohio

Hope no one jumps on me (LOL!)

Some DUer was saying that they had talked with people in Ohio and said the opposite and mentioned RFK Jr, a few others and some dude named Fitrakis that were involved. I ask if any other Dem spoke out against election fraud, but Conyers was the only one. (Unless I am missing something).:shrug:



BTW: that was a yucky thread, but the facts speak for themselves.:shrug:

[TayTay]

12. There is one lawsuit still up

One was thrown out by the court because the central issue is now moot. (Bush was sworn in and is President. That particular case was weak to begin with.) There is still an open case that is backed by, among others, the Ohio League of Women Voters. It is, to the best of my knowledge, still in the pre-trial phase. It grinds on, as justice is wont to do.

Ohio is not an easy place to litigate election fraud. This is a massively Republican state right now. Repubs control the Governships, the Sec of State, the Legislature and the Courts. It's not like there isn't pushback when the issue of fraud comes up. The entire political structure of the state has something to lose in this fight. That is, as I am wont to say, not nothing.

[politicasista]

13. Oh ok, thanks

Went back for edit to be more clearer. :hi:

[JI7]

14. fuck him

people like him are the type who do nothing to actually help Democrats win. and mostly contribute to them losing. and then after the election they have all these demands the candidate do this and that. they full of drama whoredom and lies.

[politicasista]

16. lol!

Good rant! :applause: :hi:

[TayTay]

15. I still like Greg Palast

His job is not to cheerlead for anyone currently serving in political office. His job is to investigate.

I don't take suggestions on who to vote for from Greg Palast. That's not his function and his snark goes right by the boards for me. His function is to ferret out some truth on what is going on. The Mexican system has been riddled with fraud and abuse for years. I am glad he is down there investigating.

There are a lot of lefty press people who mercilessly snark at Dem pols. In LeftyWorld, that is how they prove that they are not 'in the tank' with the politicians and are truly independant. This is part of the broken functioning of the press in general and the Dem outreach in particular.

Again, Greg Palast is a journalist. He has done some great work over the years. I read that and leave the political opinions about individual pols aside.

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. Journalists are supposed to fact-check - Palast apparently can't do that

If he's such a great journalist, why is he repeating easily disproven, blatant lies about Kerry's conduct in Ohio? I expect stupidity and lies from lefty freeper trolls on DU - but somehow I'm supposed to take Palast more seriously because he wears a fedora and calls himself a "journalist"?

That's why I can't stand Greg Palast. He's a smarmy, self-important hack who clearly likes to tell himself how cool and clever he is by smothering every "news" piece he writes in his smarmy, self-important opinion. Also, there is the fact that he wears a fedora. No one actually wears a fedora anymore - only self-styled "muckrakers" like Palast and Drudge.

He's counterproductive and hurts liberal causes way more than he helps. He also gave credence to the Swift Boat liars, IIRC - being oh so clever, he insinuated that Kerry had something to hide. He can take his arrogance, self-importance, and fast-and-loose disregard for the truth and go fuck himself with a rusted pole. I'm sorry, but I just think he's complete scum.

[JohnKleeb]

18. I believe it was him that gave credence to the Swift Boat crap

Now, now regarding the fedora Jack Abramoff wears a fedora too and you can hear the Godfather Waltz when he walks in to a room. In all seriousness I agree with you about Palast and the others. Regarding journalists and fact checking that's why I can't defend Leopold's actions regarding Rove. Sure I wanted to see Rove indicted but if we as liberals and democrats are to demand a competent media we should demand it for all. Sorry I haven't been posting everyone by the way. Seems like every day there's something that makes me disillusioned with all this crap. I did like the story about Kerry taking the 19 year old dude who was in Iraq to a Red Sox game though.

[JI7]

25. i didn't know about him and the Swift Boat thing

i think of him even less now. not just as an annoying lefty freeper with an agenda but as an enemy of the Democratic Party.

[TayTay]

21. Palast is symptom of a problem

I recently bought his book, Armed Madhouse. I have his prior books and have enjoyed them. Palast's function is to raise some hell. He will never be a guy who focuses on the niceties. His point on election fraud is that things went wrong and should be heavily investigated. He obviously doesn't see the Dems as doing enough on that. (Neither do a lot of Dems.)

Greg Palast was never sold to me as anything other than what he is: a muck-racking investigative journalist. I don't expect him to shill for the Dems. He is rude, bereft of tact, loud, in hurry to make a mark and somewhat self-reverential. Given that there are very, very few people who will do what he does, I'll take it. It's a trade off.

The people who are agreeing with Palast in his rude remarks on Kerry are the same people who have been busting Kerry since Day 1. There are a certain number of people who just dislike the guy, for their own reasons. Palast feeds them, that is true. But others have done the same thing.

I wish we had more Palasts and Amy Goodmans. They are hard to take because they are 'leftists' first and not loyal to any politician or political party. But they serve a real need and I wish there were more of them. I can take the snark, that goes with being in the public eye. If there were more real investigative journalists around, the snark would be less.

(Ever read in history what was said about Thomas Jefferson? Andrew Jackson? You know the press was pretty much blamed for killing Jackson's wife. This goes with having a free press. That's the down side of 'freedom of the press,' they print awful things sometimes that are opinion, not fact.)

[whometense]

22. Muckraker

is exactly what he is and does.

I agree - he frequently pisses me off, but his job isn't to play nice. His job is to stir up muck and let others sort out the rest. As I said, he frequesntly pisses me off, but I'm very glad he exists. We need people like him to dig up the bodies, so to speak.

[ProSense]

23. That's exactly what he is, but

there is still a credibility factor that goes with that distinction. Geraldo Rivera is considered a muckraker, but he has zero credibility, IMO. Digging up the bodies may lead to some wild goose chases, but when the leads are intentionally misleading, it is valid to question that person's credibility.

The problem in today's media climate. People make no distinction between Geraldo Rivera and Seymour Hersh.

[ProSense]

19. When you look at what Palast says about Al Gore,

making him out to be a complete wimp, it's funny to read the comments: "great article. He's got Kerry right, but he's wrong about Gore." LOL!

And where were the Democrats? In 2004, behind the huge jump in uncounted votes was a mass challenge campaign aimed at poor, Black and Hispanic voters by the Republican Party -- pushing these voters, mostly Democrats, to "provisional ballots." They could have been counted, if someone had fought for it. Hundreds of lawyers were on stand-by but the head of the biggest legal team told me in confidence -- and in frustration -- that the Kerry campaign told them to stand down.

Recently, Al Gore was asked if the election of 2000 was stolen. "There may come a time when I speak on that, but it's not now," said the beta dog. (I suspect that if Al Gore were found bleeding in an alley, he'd answer the question, Who shot you? with "There may come a time when I speak on that...").

The thread in on the Greatest page.

[whometense]

24. Well, I was talking about Palast,

not the DU commenters. I've stopped reading those threads; they just raise my blood pressure and those people refuse to be educated. They're hopeless.

Palast has written some really lowdown nasty stuff about Kerry, and I take what he writes with a (big) grain of salt. But he does have value.

[ProSense]

26. I agree!

In the weeks and months following the election, I read a lot of Palast's articles, even watched a few TV appearances. He does have value (much more than Geraldo, who I can't believe still has a job) because he covers the things other people overlook. Palast mischaracterizes Kerry's actions in the same way other journalists do, and he does it in part to call attention to the election fraud issue. It's muckraking to stir the pot, but most people don't get that. There is a fine line between muckraking and delving into the world of conspiracy theories.

When I learned about the security issue in the Busby/Bilbray election, I became suspicious. With the Mexican election, I think there is a lot of hype there, but I haven't followed it as closely.

[fedupinBushcountry]

20. Kerry DID NOT call his lawyers off

Kerry was looking for a whistle blower, that was the only way he could legally question the vote in Ohio.

In fact he was looking at everything, and info was being sent to him daily, others here can verify that. Also the official Kerry/Edwards campaign was over either the next day or by the end of the week, I can't remember exactly.

The logic of some makes no sense whatsoever, if he gave up then why would he continue with law suits. He was trying everything he could legally, and I have no doubt that if he found what he needed in time, he would of fought come hell or high water.

As Kerry said some of the things that went on in Ohio were legal thanks to the corrupt GOP and Blackwell. They are still holding up a lawsuit and why isn't that lawsuit coming forth, are they waiting for the '06 elections , so they won't get caught?

Also where is Edwards name in all this ? Blame is so easily put on one man when we as Americans should be outraged that such tactics are being used to suppress and steal votes in this the 21st century. Our election system IS corrupt and became that way when the SCOTUS decided to let the corruption continue.

If anything fishy comes up in the '06 election and we as citizens don't take to the streets and fight like hell for our one last hope of this the supposedly best democracy in the world.

Just my 2 cents.

[politicasista]

27. Good question

There have always been post about him trying to stop Kerry from conceding (no facts have been proven on that one), so he is seen as the "white knight" or something like that.

Guess it's just the double standard thing here and elsewhere. :(