What do you think of Clinton stumping for Lieberman after Lieberman

[saracat]

announces he would "mull over a Republican run" if he loses the nomination? Clinton says he doesn't think it is "right to challenge one of our own" but isn't that Democracy ? Doesn't Conn have the right to a primary? Or is Joe elected for life? it is okay for Joe to turn his back on us? And what about Lamont, isn't he a Dem too? I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not from Conneticut. Used to be. But I think this is outrageous and very wrong of Clinton.

[karynnj]

1. To be fair, if it's ok to endorse in the primaries,

then it's fair for Clinton to endorse and campaign for Lieberman. Kerry campaigned for Webb. Per one report, Lieberman says that he will not run as a Republican, that he is a life long Democrat. In the case of Clinton, with Lieberman, and Kerry, with Webb, they are recommending who they want. They aren't saying there should be no primaries. People still make their choice.

From Clinton's recent comments on Iraq, he is likely closer to Lieberman than to Lamont. He clearly didn't back Kerry/Feingold. Other than speaking out on Monica Lewinsky, I would assume that Lieberman was a pretty close Clinton ally.

Even in the general election, there have been times that Democrats endorsed Republicans (visa versa). I don't recall an ex-President doing this (or endorsing an Independent). I doubt he would do this though as it could hurt Hillary.

[saracat]

4. Hmm. I guess I just lost some respect for Clinton.

and condemning Clinton from the floor of the Senate and being the first to call for impeachment is a little more than just "speaking out". I think Clinton's aura has become a bit tarnished and I don't think backing Joe will help, either Joe or himself. Really too bad.

[karynnj]

5. I didn't realize that he called for impeachment

Through the fog of years, I assumed he simply condemned what he did and called for censure.

From the article Prosense posted, Lieberman was among the first to endorse Clinton for President, which given that Clinton didn't have a super easy time getting that nomination is something. It might also be that Clinton does accept that what he did was very wrong. He also does likely realize that Lieberman's views were sincere. (I think McCain's slavish approval and endorsement of Bush after Buah's slimey 2000 actions and Bush's complicity with the SBVT was far worse. McCain should have seen it violated all he ever said or believed about character.)

I also imagine that he sees Lieberman as more likely to support Hillary than Lamont will and that Liberman, over all, is closer to where Clinton is.

[saracat]

8. It is possible he did call for censure but I remember he was the first to

condemn Clinton.And wether Liberman is sincere or not doesn't excuse his actions. He may be sincere about thinking he is "entileed" to his Senate seat. And I think comparing Lieberman and McCain is apples and pears. McCain at leat was "supporting" his party's president, and I loathe McCain , and it was disgusting what he did. But Lieberman is a traitor to his own party and it tarnishes Clinton to support him. Perhaps Bill has been too much influenced by Poppy. More likely it is both Clintons trying to be on both sides of the street at the same time. Hillary says she'll support whoever is the Dem nominee and Bill campaigns for Joe!

[karynnj]

11. I meant Lieberman was sincere in his comments on Clinton.

If he assumes he is entitled to the nomination by virtue of having the seat now, he needs to retake a civics class - and he seems to ask as if that is the case. From where Clinton stands, I doubt Lieberman looks like a traitor. He is the most pro-war Democrat, but I really do think that there is a greater political difference between Clinton and Feingold then between Clinton and Lieberman even on that issue alone.

Unless Clinton says he will support Lieberman if he loses, I don't see any difference between Clinton saying he prefers Lieberman over Lamont and Kerry saying he prefers Webb over Miller. (I would hope that he, like Kerry, focuses only on why he supports the one he does and refrains from any potshots. (This actually is a better parallel than Bush/McCain) In this case, Kerry forgave Webb for 20 years of antagonism and the fact that in 2004 Webb's comments on him were as negative as Lieberman's on Clinton - and they were inaccurate!) I also assume that had Miller won, Kerry would have supported him.

[ProSense]

2. "the nuttiest strategy I ever heard in my life."

07/20/2006
Bill Clinton to campaign for Lieberman in Waterbury
By Don Michak , Journal Inquirer

Snip...

Clinton and Lieberman have known each other since Clinton worked on Lieberman's first campaign for state Senate in 1970, when Clinton attended Yale University in New Haven, she said.

She also noted that Lieberman was the first senator from outside of the South to endorse Clinton in his 1992 presidential campaign.

Lieberman famously broke with Clinton in 1998 when he took the Senate floor to condemn the president's marital infidelity as "immoral" and denounce his "premeditated" deception. The speech was widely interpreted as Lieberman's stepping-stone to the Democrats' vice presidential nomination two years later.

Clinton, in a recent speech at the Aspen Institute conference, defended Lieberman and his staunch support for the war in Iraq. He questioned why antiwar Democrats are seeking to oust a fellow Democrat, saying that instead of seeking to retire Republicans they were pursuing "the nuttiest strategy I ever heard in my life."

more...

http://www.journalinquirer.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16945479&BRD=985&PAG=461&dept_id=161556&rfi=6

WTF?

[whometense]

6. WTF indeed.

I am soooooo over anything approaching respect for Clinton. But in any case, what the hell???? Is he so wrapped up in his mental political games that he can't understand that maybe opposing Lieberman is not a strategy?

Maybe the people of CT don't want him representing them in the senate anymore. That's not a strategy. It's democracy.

[karynnj]

7. I think that may be one of the essential problems with Clinton

He may really see everything as strategy. I am also over having much respect for Clinton as a leader or as a person. He really does seem to see most things as a political game to win. I find that even though he was President for 8 years, I can't list what his core beliefs are. Without a presidency to define him, all of us could list what we think Kerry's core beliefs are. I would bet that there would be huge overlap in our lists.

[ProSense]

10. Anyone who pretends

this comment is acceptable is full of shit!

[saracat]

9. And this MAY have something to do with Israel and the "perceived "Jewish

vote in 2006 and 2008.

[karynnj]

12. I would not be surprised, but I'm not sure

that the majority of Jews support Lieberman. (In fact a Lieberman campaign person dissed the CT Jewish population for being insufficiently loyal. Isn't Lamont Jewish too?

[Mass]

3. "Clinton also said he thought it was wrong for Democrats to challenge one

of their own".

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO23132

I imagine he is preparing the road for Hillary. She is running and nobody should challenge her.

[politicasista]

13. Speaking of Hillary

snip

Hillary Rodham Clinton Addresses NAACP

AP


WASHINGTON - N.Y. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton called on President Bush to use his rare appearance before the NAACP‘s annual conference to renew the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act, arguing that such a step would ensure a basic right for minorities.

"He could sign it right here on this stage," Clinton , D-N.Y., told the NAACP on Wednesday, eliciting cheers from the audience.

In recent years, Republicans have tried to chip away at Democrats‘ long dominance of the black vote; Democrat John Kerry captured nearly 90 percent of the vote in 2004. Democrats have fought back to keep a critical part of their base.

At one point, a handful of people chanted "Run, Hillary, run," an apparent reference to 2008.

http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_news/canvas_directory_headlines_features/_a/hillary-rodham-clinton-addresses-naacp/20060720074909990001

[ProSense]

14. I'm really getting tired

of these self-righteous assholes mischaracterizing the opposition to Lieberman.

(July 20, 2006 -- 03:42 PM EDT)
Kondracke on Lieberman-Lamont ...

Lieberman Race Pits Moderation vs. Hatred-Politics
This is no exaggeration: The soul of the Democratic Party — and possibly the future of civility in American politics — is on the line in the Aug. 8 Senate primary in Connecticut.

Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.), one of the last “liberal hawks” in the Democratic Party and a leader in efforts to find bipartisan solutions to America’s problems, is being targeted for defeat by an emergent new left that’s using savage, Internet-based attacks to push moderation out of politics.

The rest at Roll Call, subscription required.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/009114.php

[ProSense]

15. Why? Because it's all they choose to write about

(July 20, 2006 -- 04:44 PM EST // link)

TPM Reader DT on Kondracke ...

Does Kondracke know who Steve Laffey is? Or Pat Toomey ? Or is it only sign of "hatred politics" when Lieberman is the focus? What is hateful or radical about Ned Lamont? How come the internet radicals are okay with anti-choice Harry Reid? How come the more conservative Dem senators like Baucus and Dorgan are not under assault by the allegedly radical internet mafia? Does Kondracke even bother to ask these questions, or shall I assume that truth isn't the point?

I think that there's something of a difference with Baucus and Dorgan. They come from red states. But there is this odd indifference to the fact that Republicans pretty routinely draw primary challengers pretty much just like Lieberman is this time. But that doesn't seem to phase anyone. Right now in Rhode Island you can make a decent argument that the last remaining moderate Republican senator is being primaried from the right. But nothing. That doesn't seem to faze anybody.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/009116.php

The MSM is determined to make this about "savage" left bloggers.

[JanusAscending]

16. Hmm,...what do I think?

I think that I am getting screwed out of seeing Pres. Clinton..up close and personal..because of Lieberman!! While "big dog" was President, I absolutely adored him, as did my Dad. But he broke my heart, 'cause I believed him , and he lied. Still, I would love to see him, but won't go because I can't support Lieberman. Unless maybe I could make a large PEACE sign and go as a protester?? I'm just damned mad ! They are going to be in Waterbury, just a five minute drive from me! That's where I saw John F. Kennedy when he ran for President. He was worth seeing!!! Oh well, I'll just have to wait and hope to see my REAL President this year either in Oct. or Dec. :applause: :woohoo: DC

[sandrakae]

17. I never thought it was possible for Bill Clinton to piss me off.

[zann725]

18. The same I feel about Clinton "stumping" with Poppy after their 'past'

political history.

I don't like flip-floppers. And BigDog IS one.
NOT J.K.

[paulk]

19. I think Clinton's main point is a fair one

and doesn't have anything to do with Lieberman, per se.

If the first goal of the Democratic Party is to win back control of the Senate this November, it makes little sense for a party to spend time and money trying to unseat an incumbent who is sure to hold onto his seat - especially when that time and money would be much better spent on races that are toss-ups.

From a strictly strategic POV, he's 100% correct, IMO, given that Lieberman, by all accounts, would win running either as a Democrat or as an Independent.

[whometense]

20. Salon article today on this subject

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/24/clinton_lieberman/

...Hillary's politics are Joe's politics. If Lieberman sinks, it will raise a lot of questions about the current Clinton strategy, which is really just a post-millennial version of that old-time DLC religion. When I asked Waters why she thought Clinton was coming to Connecticut, she said there were rumors in Washington that he and his wife are freaked out by the sudden progressive insurgency. The DLC is putting down a small rebellion before it spreads. Thus, Bill, the DLC's greatest success story, will be standing alongside former DLC chairman Lieberman in Waterbury mere hours after Hillary gives the keynote speech at the DLC's annual national convention in Denver.

What Lieberman gets from Bill Clinton, meanwhile, is obvious, at least at first glance. The liberal base of the party has turned on Lieberman with ferocity. With two weeks to go before the Aug. 8 primary, he seems to be in free fall. Lamont has a four-point lead in the latest Quinnipiac poll, a 19-point jump in six weeks. Sean Smith, Lieberman's campaign manager, espouses the idea that "low-information" voters swing elections. Some of those folks will surely be swayed by Clinton, and make up for all the liberal votes that are bleeding away.

But if you lose that many votes that fast, chances are you're bleeding from more than one place. Lieberman's handlers have been looking around for somebody, anybody, who might, you know, vote for him -- some untapped bloc of loyal Democratic voters. How about, um, black folks? And to appeal to those black voters, how about calling in the white politician they like and trust above all others? Instead of, you know, Joe Lieberman...

[sandnsea]

21. Link for that?

I've seen people say he said that, but I've never actually seen any source that he actually said that.

But I don't like the Democratic Party rallying around him the way they have, not after he refused to abide by the winner of the primary. The whole country is seething just beneath the surface, half are so dissillusioned they don't even vote for President, even fewer vote in off years. Health care, economy, foreign policy, wars, KATRINA - it's all out of control. And the Clintons are just business as usual, their complete disconnect from what people are thinking and feeliing is stunning really. Not that I think the left has their finger on it either, but our leadership is supposed to be a little more savvy than that.