This is the first time I am irritated by my low poll numbers

[MissHoneychurch]

in a contest. Why did my picture get so little hits? Normally I don't really care but this time I put on of my best pictures in the contest. To tell the truth I actually felt hurt. I know I shouldn't and normally I take it as it is. As fun. But this time :shrug: Any ideas?

[Blue_In_AK]

1. The Lounge ain't got no culture....

Don't feel bad, MissHoneychurch. I liked my photo, too, but I only got one more vote than you did (and that was probably my husband being nice). It's just a game, and there's really no accounting for taste.

[F.Gordon]

2. It's the "Kucinich Factor"

If I were pickin’ the Final 10 yours would have been one of them. Besides the great composition and tonal quality yours was one of the few photographs that told a story. Don’t sweat it, you’re in good company cause there were plenty of other great photos that registered very few votes. You were also in a very tough group in the prelims.

T-Nut addressed this “issue” about a year ago. A firestorm ensued, RagingInMiami and myself got into a pissing match but then we kissed and made up. The Lounge has always gravitated toward the leaders in any contest. I could go back in each contest and point out excellent photos that got dissed in the Lounge.

I could have quite easily gotten you waaaaay more votes. It works every time. Just post that “Photo A” is the best. I noticed that during the prelims there was a certain DUer that picked their fave from each group and those 3 photos immediately started registering more votes. I wish people wouldn't do this, but it's not my place to tell people what they should or should not do.

My biggest complaint with the “contest” is the prelims. I agree with bvar22 that we should “judge” the prelims by peer review. I have an idea on how to “fix it” but I doubt everyone would go along with it. Basically it would involve everyone here PMing a ranking on every photo to the host/ess. Because each photo is “ranked” it would require fewer voters.

So, again. Don’t sweat it. Your entry was excellent.
:thumbsup:

That’s my Sunday morning rant….. back to work I go.
:hi:

[regnaD kciN]

3. About your photo...

Forgive me if this sounds like second-guessing, but I was really surprised when you changed your entry midway through the submission process. Personally, I thought "Two Towers" was an excellent image, and would have done quite well.

I'm looking at your picture above, and I can see some things that may have put the Lounge Folk off. For one thing, it's obviously an old image which has been scanned. Shot with Tri-X, right? I suspect so, due to the heavy grain in the sky. Visible grain was pretty much the accepted aesthetic for black-and-white images in the '70s and before, but today, with low-noise digital, there are many who react negatively to any grain. Plus, there are clear dust spots and what looks like a negative scratch in the sky.

The framing is a bit unusual, in that the horizon is definitly tilted by about one degree down to the right. Nowadays, most people would rotate and crop the image in Photoshop so the horizon was straight. (I just downloaded your photo and tried it myself -- IMHO, it improves it, as does cleaning up the dust spots and scratch. I can repost the modified photo if you want, but won't do so without your position.)

Finally, although I agree with the other poster's observation that Sans Souci "tells a story," I'm not really sure what story it is. There seem to be two competing centers of attention -- the statue of Hermes and the woman walking away -- but I can't see how they're connected. Are we supposed to see the statue as looking at the woman? It's hard to tell, since the statue is so much higher up in the frame that she isn't in its "eye-line." I got the sense that maybe the statue was looking away from the woman (back to the "good old days" when the grounds were the haunts of royalty and nobility, instead of "common" tourists?), but wasn't sure about this, either. Maybe it was about the woman feeling small and isolated amidst the grandeur of the past? In any event, I've always gotten the feeling that "story pictures" only work among Lounge voters when there is an unambiguous meaning, usually explained in a title ("Barney's Last Autumn," "Seeing Myself in My Father," and so on) which makes it impossible for them not to get the story.

[MissHoneychurch]

5. You are wrong about one thing

I took this picture a couple of years ago and developed it myself. It was taken in b/w. I scanned it and maybe that is why it has so much grain. I use a Canon EOS 300. Not digital. So the pictures aren't as "smooth" as digital pictures. But that shouldn't count if the picture itself in its composition is good. And I really think it is. I did not desperately try to tell a story with this picture. Normally I try to have no people at all in my pictures, just the landscape or the building. This lady walked there when I took the picture. In the end I am glad she walks there because it helps to keep the picture in balance. My opinion.

[regnaD kciN]

12. Which film stock were you using?

That seems like a large amount of grain, and a rather soft image, for a modern emulsion.

But I disagree with you that the grain "shouldn't count." Everything about a photographic image will "count" to one extent or another, because each is a choice that affects the visual impression it makes. Maybe the way some people react to said visual cues is immature ("ooh, that isn't as grainless as digital photography -- that means it isn't as good" :eyes: ), but everything visual will count in the onlooker's opinion.

Actually, though, I think the grain was less of a factor than the spots and scratch in the sky and, maybe, the slightly-tilted horizon. The former, because it makes it look like you didn't value the image enough to clean it up; the latter, because a tilted horizon (just enough to be distracting, not enough to look like a deliberate choice) is a standard flaw of casual "tourist" snapshots. Since it's so easy to fix both of those in Photoshop, more people will notice when that isn't done, and get a negative reaction from it.

[MissHoneychurch]

17. Ilford HP5 Iso 200

if I remember right.

I have to admit I scanned the pic with an old scanner and I didn't had the time to work with it at Photoshop. I wasn't at home at the time I scanned it. Beside I just have a non-professional version of Photoshop and barely use it.

What I mean with "grain shouldn't count" is that of course digital pictures look better than scanned pictures. And that is a disadvantage for paper pictures. But not everybody has the money to buy a good digital camera. They cost about $800 and more here in Germany.

Actually I really liked the sky and the clouds, esp. behind the statue. Maybe the pciture looks better on paper than on a screen.

[alfredo]

4. I gave up worrying about how my photos go over in the contests

I have long decided that I am a poor judge of my own work because pictures of mine that I didn't like, got high ratings, and ones I liked bombed.

This was a tough contest and a lot of very good images did not make the cut. The spread between the best and worst was very slim.

Remember, cute kids, dogs, and kittens will win in the lounge. Nothing wrong with that. Art is subjective.

[intheflow]

6. I can't believe how well my photo is doing.

I took it years ago, and everyone I showed it to looked at me like I was nuts for liking it. Photos I have labored over composing have been almost completely ignored in these contests. In th eend, I have to agree with Blue and alfredo: the Lounge ain't got no culture--kitties and dogs will always trump art.

[MissHoneychurch]

7. I liked your picture as well

I understand why you like it.

[GOPFighter]

8. Watch carefully in the next contest

Once a few photos start pulling ahead, most of the votes go their way (in the preliminary round I got a lot of quick votes, but once the leaders pulled ahead I only got three more votes the rest of the way). It seemed more pronounced in this contest because the quality of the photos this month was very high and everyone was having trouble choosing their favorite. Once other voters identified the leaders the rest of the votes went their way.

Also, Lounge voters seem to favor photos with a quick impact, clean, uncomplicated. Your photo would do much better in a contest judged by serious photographers, I think. I know how you feel, though. In a contest last year I thought my entry was a real winner. It bombed. I was really disappointed, but it taught me not to judge my photos on the whims of the voters.

[regnaD kciN]

13. You're right about that...

...there's a definite "bandwagon" effect among Lounge Lizards. Once the field is narrowed down to two or three front-runners, practically no one else will get any votes. I guess people really, really want to feel their vote contributed to the final decision, and any photo too far behind to have a chance of winning becomes like a minor-party candidate -- all you'd be doing voting for that one would be "throwing your vote away." :eyes:

There's some web-forum software where you can't see the results of a poll until you've already voted, Unfortunately, DCForum+ doesn't seem to have that feature, yet. And I wonder what would happen if they did? On the one hand, you wouldn't get the bandwagon effect, on the other, I wonder if as many people would bother voting, or even looking at the images, if they didn't think they could help decide the outcome of the "horse-race."

[Boo_Radley]

9. It was a hard contest this time

There was a lot of really good stuff. And remember that it's not photographers casting most of the vote, it's Mr. & Mrs. North America. They're going to view it differently. Think of what people at the office would really like. Kind of have to shoot for the audience you have.

[hvn_nbr_2]

10. My two cents

I haven't posted much here in this group, but FWIW I'll give my two cents.

First, somone mentioned Hermes. Is that really Hermes? I wouldn't have guessed so. I'd have guessed maybe Dionysus or even Apollo before Hermes. But for all I know, maybe that's a famous statue of Hermes.

As others have said, the Lounge "ain't got no culture." Kiddies, kitties, and canines always trump artistic merit. I suspect that the "herd-following" behavior that others have mentioned is closely related to the cliques and in-crowd mentality in the Lounge.

One other thing I've noticed about Lounge evaluations of photos is that, for the most part, there is absolutely no conception of composition. They want one main subject directly in the center of the photo. Since the statue, the person, and the stairs are all out of the center, they probably think the shadowy thing behind the statue (What is that, anyway?) is the subject.

All that said, there are some things that make me find a bit of fault with the photo: It seems slightly out of focus, there seems to be too little contrast, and the grain is a bit off-putting for me. Just for kicks, I tried applying a sepia tint and found that that way, those things seemed to fit right in and look natural.

[MissHoneychurch]

11. I would say it is Hermes with the hat and the wings

but that didn't really matter for me when I took the picture. The shadow behind the statue are bushes. As I said in a post before, this picture was taken in b/w with a Canon EOS 300 (no digital camera) and developed by myself (the positive) and scanned. That is the reason why it has a lot more grain then other pics. I did focus on the statue.

[lakemonster11]

16. It's definitely not Apollo or Dionysos.

Only Hermes and Perseus wear winged hats. In this case, I'd say it's Hermes, because the figure seems to be pulling his sandals on (a common pose for Hermes).

[RagingInMiami]

14. An artist should never let other peoples opinions about their work

affect their mood. Easier said than done, I know, but it's the only way to do it. Otherwise, you'll drive yourself crazy.

[MissHoneychurch]

18. as I said

normally I don't really let it affect my mood. My mom loves this picture, I love it and that is actually what counts. But somehow I expected more votes than I got this time. Oh well, there are more contests to come :)

[priller]

15. I like this picture a lot

It was one of my faves in the prelims. I like the grainy quality. Makes it look like an old photo. And I like the composition. Like I said, one of my faves.

But I see a similar dynamic on Flickr, where I post a lot of pics. The ones I really like usually get very few views, then others get tons. I had some pictures of a jaguar I took at a zoo which I thought were just okay, but now they have thousands of views on Flickr, where most others have less than 50. Go figure...

[DS1]

19. I can tell you that one of the things I didn't like about it was the tilt

But don't be offended by what the lounge votes reflect

I'm could call my next picture, no matter WHAT the subject or contest theme is "The Day My Sister Died" and I'd win, flat out.

[alkaline9]

20. I've read what others have posted and...

...all I can say is... it could happen to anyone. None of our photos are perfect (nor should they be). Everyone likes what they like (as it should be). It is quite true that certain images and/or titles could possibly touch the Loungers on a different level... but that is out of your control. I admit, I didn't know what the statue in your photo was, nor could I tell if it was in Europe or Alaska (for all I know?!?). I guess I'm one of those un-cultured lounge types... but that's fine with me... Maybe this photo group will teach me things besides what film speed to use in low light.

At some point you have to ask yourself why you compete in these contests anyway?

Is it because you want praise for your photos? If thats the case you could just post them anywhere on here and at least a few people would be happy to tell you how great they are (as we regularly do in here).

Is it because you want to be better than the other photographers? Well, while its possible, its not probable... there's always someone better somewhere. Plus I don't think anyone here is competing for that reason.

Or maybe its just a fun way to spend some time on DU without thinking politics while sharing something that you hold dear to you... a skill... a hobby... a photograph.

I am relatively new to DU and the photo group, but the reason I compete here is because I know the people I am competing against (for the most part) from the photo group. And I know they would never be cruel to my photos on purpose. That gives me the courage to post something that I maybe would be afraid to in other forums.

I don't consider myself to be an artist, just a hobbyist. I've come to realize that I can only grow in my hobby by being here and competing. I don't compete to see how many Lounge votes I get... I compete for the process of learning. I compete for that one comment (good or bad) that will stick with me and help me shoot a better photo NEXT time. Sometimes its a trick that I never thought about... or maybe its just positive feedback that gives me the drive to go back out and shoot more photos.

To sum it up, dumb luck. Next month you could enter a photo that you don't particularly like and it could win. Its just the way it goes. Remember too though, that your photos help all of us to learn too.