*** Photo Contest Rules Poll Results. Any ideas for what to do next? ***

[JeffR]

Personally, I favor having regnaD kciN and WannaJumpMyScooter revise the rules in accordance with the poll results. :P

Pretty clear consensus on Host Authority and Frames. Less so on Photo Size, though a plurality endorsed the status quo. As to Post-Processing, widespread indifference.

[Mz Pip]

1. Looks to me like

everything stays the same with the exception of frames for white background photos.

I'm not really sure I understand what kind of impact total host authority would look like. Would any host just throw all the limits out the window and insist everyone do frames on large file/size pictures? I can certainly see having a host determine how a tie is broken, the schedule of the month or the order of the pics in the prelims/finals. Maybe on the rare occurance the hose would have to decide if a picture fit the theme of the month. But in the years I've been participating in these I've rarely seen a photo entered that is so off the wall in terms of theme it would need to be nixed.

It seems like there would be some things a host shouldn't be able to do.

[alfredo]

2. We are getting set in our ways.

[Celebration]

3. Give the host ultimate authority

And if they decide to ditch a rule or two for a month, so be it. We can get boring again the next month. That is how I feel, but I am not sure if that is implied in the results. BTW, I would be boring.

Personally, I would keep the rules voted on by the group.

[JeffR]

4. The weakness in the original poll option was the term "final authority"

which can be construed to mean only that the host's say-so on a question is unimpeachable, or something much broader concerning contest rules. "Final arbiter" might have been better wording, pointing a little more toward the former construct rather than the latter.

I like the idea of hosts throwing a curve into things every now and then, but how far a host can go is a tough one. This confirms to me that more debate is needed before anything gets incorporated into the rules. Obviously there's broad sympathy for hosts being "in charge" but that sentiment might only go so far when it comes to specifics.

[JeffR]

5. S'up

;)

One comment and a few comments on the comment ain't going to get this resolved. Maybe newer members of the group are hesitant about getting involved in reassessing the rules. But the group is whoever is active at any given time. It's, like, democracy, right?

For starters, this wording from the existing rules is still missing:

The winner of the contest agrees to host the next month's contest (or recruit someone else to host the contest), and pick the next month's theme. Typically the winners have not been able to enter a photograph in the next contest.

Some holes need patching, is all.

[sandnsea]

6. Patch 'em up

I think just write up the rules with anything new in them and then put it up for input or a final vote.

[HappyCynic]

7. Definitely agree about writing it up.

We can then settle on an "official" set of rules and each host can use that as the base set, adding and/or subtracting as needed.

[JeffR]

8. I was hoping to avoid that task myself.

[Mira]

9. May I second that wish.

You did a lot of work on all of this, and memory says you asked for a bit of help more than once.
Genuinely, if my back were not against the wall having to work almost around the clock to pay back customers willing to wait for me to return from my travels, I would do it right away.

If nobody picks up on it, I'll do it in about a week.
Thanks JeffR for what you already did.

Who was, and where is the guy who started it all with his elaborate frame and insistence he use it over the request of the host to take it off?

He might be the one who should assess the results and put them in final form.
:fistbump:

:rofl:

[JeffR]

10. I don't want to guilt anyone into doing it.

And really I think there was plenty of help for the effort provided in the thoughtful comments folks made in the polls I posted. If you or someone else wanted to have a go at drafting a revision, I'd be delighted because you'd do a better job of it than I would.

As to our mystery poster, I really hoped he'd provide some input on the polls. Though maybe the fact that he hasn't is his input. That whole dust-up was what prompted this, but really some of these issues have been around for a while and have been discussed but never acted on. Maybe he did the group a favor, but only if we get practical about it.

[sandnsea]

12. I can do it tonight if you want n/t

[JeffR]

13. That would be great

but it's really not a matter of what I want. Just wanted to initiate the process without being a czar about it.

[sandnsea]

17. How's this for a start

BASIC CONTEST/CHALLENGE RULES:

Only one entry per person. You need to post your entry in the submission thread started by the Host of a contest/challenge. Please be sure to include a "Title" for your photograph in the Subject line of your post. The submission thread is for photo entries only, no comments. The Host will usually start a separate thread just for comments.

Please keep your photograph entry no larger than 800 pixels in its longest dimension and under 200K in file size, unless otherwise designated by contest host. If you need help posting a photograph or with image sizing just ask.

Please do not use frames, except for a 10 pixel black frame to define white backgrounds.

Minimal post-processing is permitted, keeping in mind that this is foremost, a photography contest.

The contest host may alter the written rules at the beginning of their contest, and is the final arbiter of the rules and any issues that may arise.

The contest host may not enter their own photo contest, but may choose the theme in any manner they decide.

For seasonal contest winner agrees to be available to assist in hosting the next seasonal contest, should the hosts require such assistance.

Be sure to read the following before you enter a photograph.

CONTEST LICENSE:

An entrant to this contest, by submitting a photograph, is giving permission for that photograph to be copied to Demopedia and/or to a linked Gallery that will display the photographs entered for this contest for the purpose of publicizing future contests and/or commemorating current and past contests. The entrant retains all other rights to the photograph being submitted. Neither Demopedia and/or a linked Gallery may use any photograph submitted for any purpose other than to display the photograph being submitted by the entrant, and neither gains any real or implied ownership rights to the photograph.

An entrant can disclaim this Contest License and retain all rights to the photograph. If an entrant wishes to disclaim the Contest License they must include the following statement in the post containing their photograph; "I disclaim the Contest License, and reserve all rights to my photograph" Any photograph submitted by an entrant with this disclaimer statement will not be copied and displayed in Demopedia and/or any linked Gallery.

[Celebration]

18. ah, very good

Personally, I like it, and feel that it reflects the consensus here. Of course there is probably something forgotten. :silly:

Actually, where is it in there that you have to be the host if you win? You addressed the seasonal contests, but at first glance see nothing about the non-seasonal contests.

[JeffR]

19. This "lost" wording from the traditional rules would cover it:

"The winner of the contest agrees to host the next month's contest (or recruit someone else to host the contest)."

[sandnsea]

21. So do you want to add that

and then post the full set of rules for approval from the entire group?

[JeffR]

22. I'm thinking that wording can go right before:

"For seasonal contest winner agrees to be available to assist in hosting the next seasonal contest, should the hosts require such assistance."

What do you think?

[sandnsea]

23. Sounds fine to me n/t

[JeffR]

20. Nice work. Looks to me that this would cover everything

except a contest winner agreeing to host the next contest, or find a surrogate host.

Good job!

[Tindalos]

25. Looks like I missed all the work

Thanks for doing this.

btw I love your new sig.

[Tindalos]

24. I think this covers just about everything

Other than the monthly hosting duties mentioned already. No doubt something will come up to confuse us again.
Thanks for drafting this for us.

[mth44sc]

11. Oh boy!

PIE!!!

[PhillyGurl]

14. haha, Jeff you crack me up

no submissions 4 u!

[JeffR]

15. I was proud of my showing on that poll.

With a little more lobbying, I think I could have tripled my total easily.

[Blue_In_AK]

16. Wow, I go away for three days, and look what I miss.

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :evilgrin:

[JeffR]

26. The mods have closed the revision poll at my request.

There's obviously more to discuss before we get to a revision.

So discuss, please.

[Celebration]

27. well, for one thing

We need to add that the host of the seasonal contests can enter them.

I actually like our post processing rule, but if we need to be more specific, I think we should add that color corrections, sharpness, cropping, and rotations are allowed, but that more extreme things like adding clouds, combining pictures (or whatever it is that people do!) are not allowed. If some of the more extreme Photoshop things are allowed, that really will scare new people off. As for enforcing it, hasn't anyone heard of the honor system?

[regnaD kciN]

29. Two comments on the post-processing issue...

1) Whatever the final version of the rule, we need to make an exception for contests where more extensive processing is called for by the topic. (We had at least one of these in the past.)

2) In addition to the permissible items mentioned above, I think there should also be allowed minor use of the clone or healing brushes (or their Lightroom equivalent) to remove imperfections such as dust spots, passing aircraft that appear as "specks" in the sky, etc. There's a difference between "spotting" a print (which was not unknown with film photography) and doing full-scale image tinkering like taking out an ugly sky and replacing it with a more photogenic one from another image taken at a completely different time, or (as National Geographic learned to their chagrin) moving one of the Pyramids so that it would fit in their cover landscape.

[Celebration]

30. I agree with ALL of this n/t

[sandnsea]

31. Please write it up

You have the most to say on the subject, write it up so JeffR can put this behind him.

[regnaD kciN]

32. I think that how I would phrase it...

...would be more as a guideline than a hard-and-fast set of rules as to what is permissible and what is not.

Although tools for post-processing have greatly increased in power since the advent of the "digital darkroom," it should be remembered that the goal of post-processing is to help the photographer present the subject as he or she experienced it at the time the photograph was taken. Attempts to use post-processing to create a completely different reality that was never there to be photographed should be discouraged, unless that is the theme of the particular contest.

[Celebration]

33. Well

At the least I feel that a host needs the power to nix an entry that he or she feels is overly processed. Discourage isn't strong enough. I would have thought it was until the frames issue last month, lol.

[BrightKnight]

34. What happens in the darkroom stays in the darkroom.

In traditional photography there were many manipulations and most photographers spent more time printing than shooting. Printing has always been a very personal and private ritual.

I never make structural changes, I usually crop in the camera, and I don't like HDR but what other people do in Photoshop is none of my business.

[regnaD kciN]

35. I recall that people who have seen "straight" prints from Ansel Adams's negatives...

...have said that they look nothing at all like the prints he made. He, a pianist as well as a photographer, also was known to say that "the negative is the score, the print is the performance."

[CC]

28. I think this is why the last few times

it never got done. Thank you so much for taking it on. Hang in there, you might have what it takes to get it done this time. Patience and fortitude.


I liked what was up there though Celebration's host amendment does cover more so would be good.
Celebration also has a good rewrite of the post processing that should work fine. A thank you goes in her direction too but with a warning, we now know who else to call upon for PITA projects. :evilgrin:

[JeffR]

36. Just want to say that I think we're getting there on this

and I really appreciate everyone's enthusiasm for keeping the discussion going.

Perhaps at this point we need to take stock of what we seem to have reached consensus on, and then address what we haven't. We're close, we're close.