Oh well, at least with a McCain presidency, Countdown will still be good

[Berry Cool]

because Keith will still have a damn good target to rail against. As our country sinks into the toilet and flushes away.

That's what I tell myself. But I still hope to death we don't have a McCain presidency.

But I'm thinking that, for Countdown anyway, a Hillary Clinton presidency would be worse.

Not only for ratings, as droves of former Dem fans of the show continued to drop off the viewer rolls because they could no longer stand the fact that now THEIR favorite politician would be subject to the same criticism as Bush.

But because it could send Keith into such a revival of "Big Show depression" that it would feel to him like 1998 all over again. And if THAT happens, it's the end of Countdown.

I paid a little visit to the pro-Hillary site that organized that stupid protest at 30 Rock on Friday. The one I wasn't really all that aware of, but which I now realize was essentially whipped up with the primary goal of getting Keith and Tweety fired. (The other goals, things like "ending sexism in the media" and somehow getting the Michigan and Florida primaries to be counted, were either too nebulous or not something NBC or MSNBC could really do anything about.) Of course, their little protest turned out to be a fizzle, but this isn't the end of it. They're planning on spamming lots of email inboxes this whole coming week, in their persistent efforts to get Keith and Tweety off the air. Why Keith? Because, according to the "Mad as Hell/Bitch" video that one of them made for YouTube and that the rest of them have been championing ever since, Keith is the worst sexist of all the many sexists at MSNBC. The one who deserves to be singled out as the worst of the worst.

Why? Don't ask me why. I can't figure out a damn thing he says in the whole video that qualifies as sexist. Neither can many other people. But there you have it.

I find myself realizing that if these people's chosen candidate somehow manages to come out of all the current nonsense with the nomination, I'm no longer so sure I can vote for her anymore. Not just because these fans got me so angry. But because SHE is getting me so angry. And if enough people end up thinking like me, and just staying home, it's welcome, President McCain.

But if enough people like me hold their noses and vote for her anyway, she might just become president.

And then what are we going to get? As Carl Bernstein said, a presidency run much like her campaign was.

Add on top of that a Republican base re-energized to attack her and her husband every which way they can, every step of the way.

It won't be pretty, I don't think. Even if it lasts but four years.

Keith is going to point out the lack of prettiness. He will feel that he has to, that it's his job. And each time he does, he's going to feel angry, he's going to feel depressed, he's going to cry.

And the rest of MSNBC is also going to feel a strange sense of deja vu.

If Countdown lasts under those circumstances, it's going to become "Countdown with Rachel Maddow."

Keith's going to try to find himself a tiny island in the Pacific where he can go to forget about all this. An island big enough to have a baseball diamond and a couple of teams who play each other regularly, to give him something to watch.

Of course, what happens if Obama emerges from all this intact? We'll have several months of decent Countdown as the Repugs throw every dirty trick at him they can. Then comes the election.

If McCain wins, we're in for four great years of Countdown viewing, at least until we all get drafted to fight one of his wars (and we will--they'll be so desperate for cannon fodder they'll take all of us) and we get greased by a poor Iranian kid defending himself.

If Obama wins, look for Keith's ratings to be the ones going into the crapper as scads of his former fans abandon him the first time Obama says or does something Keith doesn't like, and Keith does a Special Comment on it.

Pretty sad to know that for so many liberals/progressives/what have you, what the wingnuts said about them is right. They only love Keith when he is telling them what they want to hear. When he doses out the strong medicine, suddenly they hate him, he's a hack, he's terrible.

This picture from the protest illustrates it best:



As Paint It Black said on a DU thread about it, "No, he's still the same KO. Perspective is everything."

Righto. Keith IS "different," still. In fact, he's SO different that SHE can't handle it. When she first began listening to him, she was convinced he was "different" because he happened to be echoing HER viewpoints, which she wasn't used to hearing on TV. Problem is, she thought that was all he was ever going to do--echo HER viewpoints. Now he's not echoing them anymore, because he disagrees with her about some things her favorite candidate has done. And once he dared to express disappointment in Hillary Clinton, it didn't matter to her that he was doing it with regret and sorrow. To her, he was just another person who had proven himself not willing to echo her every sentiment. And with that, he was no longer "different"--he was just another one of those raging male TV sexists. *sigh*

I don't know. Maybe this whole campaign has just lasted too long for me, already. But I don't like what I'm seeing. And something tells me that unless we see a big change in people's attitudes and an opening of their minds, Keith's line of work is going to be a very, very difficult one to be in for the near future.

Keith, Randi Rhodes, Stephanie Miller...I really feel for them all, one way or another. They're trying to speak their truth, and in return they get attacked not only by those who completely oppose everything they politically believe in, but by people who share their basic beliefs...just because they dared to try to criticize a PERSON whom someone had idealized as the perfect embodiment of those beliefs.

Nobody's perfect, people. I prefer Obama, but he's got his flaws, and I hope he sees the light on them. So does Keith. I don't agree with everything he says or does on the show. But I've matured to the point where I don't either demand absolute perfection and idealism from people or toss them out the window as having "disappointed" me. It takes more than a mere lack of ideological perfection for me to give up on someone now. The bar has been set higher.

I wish others would set their bars higher too. It would be a much better and less polarized world.

[DeepModem Mom]

1. I hesitate to weigh in at all, Berry, bowing to you as the expert in this area...

but I would just add another aspect of all this. I think in the process of becoming so successful at storied NBC, KO has in a sense grown up. He has, by his own admission, become a "team player," no longer railing at bosses and coworkers. And I think he is proud to be on the team he is on, NBC, with all its broadcast history. He has become a very big deal, constantly lauded, at that network, it's obvious.

And the success came, of course, with a historic giving of voice to voiceless millions on the left. I see that successful (re. ratings) attacking from the left continuing if either McCain or Clinton is elected.

The primary attacks on Clinton, IMO, are not only KO's own opinion, but a viewership decision to go with the zeitgeist among the left, to give voice once again. If Obama is elected, KO would, I would guess, be his advocate almost always -- unless upon entering the White House, he takes a sharp turn to the middle or even the right. There would be plenty of targets, enemies of Obama, those who obstruct his goals. KO would give voice to his viewership -- not only because of his own opinions, but because it has been his formula for success.

I have absolutely no fear that people who don't agree with KO will get him either silenced or fired -- not as long as his ratings are up and he makes money for NBC. There's a big, big difference between KO and Stephanie, Randi, etc., and even, as we have read recently, between KO and Tweety. At this point, IMO, he is, shall we say, "safe at home."

[Berry Cool]

2. Yikes, since when did I become the "expert"?

I don't think I qualify as the "expert" (and I'm not even sure what I'd be the "expert" on)...Expert on Keith? No, this is all guessing. Make of it what you will.

I do think you're right that Keith has learned to "play well with others," even those he may well find exasperating. But I don't think that Keith would necessarily be an Obama advocate always, nor should he be. I think he'd be honest if he felt that Obama was attempting to accomplish something constructive and was getting stalled or pushed back on it, but I don't think he'd see it as his job to be an advocate of President Obama. Because he defines his job, I think, of being one of government watchdog, not cheerleader. Of making sure that anyone who becomes president does what he or she was elected to do: serve the American people.

This means that those whose first loyalty is to Obama, rather than the American people, are not going to like it if Keith ever departs with Obama's thinking.

I am sure that what made him so unhappy during the Lewinsky circus in 1998 was that he saw it as ultimately contributing no light and good to the republic. First, it was depressing to learn something like that about ANY president, especially to learn that he'd lied about it. But what made it even worse was that it became the topic that drained all attention from anything else affecting the country that was far more important. And why? Because a group of people were determined to exploit it for all the advantages it offered to humiliate and destroy their political enemies.

How did the pursuit of the Clinton impeachment make this country better? It didn't. And THAT, I think, is what bothered Keith about being such a central part of the reportage on it day after day. Oh, it made for killer ratings. He had the highest ratings on MSNBC. Which made him feel even worse, because he knew he was getting those huge ratings by talking about cigars and stained blue dresses. Sex sells. They didn't watch his show to see Keith Olbermann's take on the news, they watched it to hear about cigars and dress stains.

Was he upset because it was the Clintons? To an extent, probably, but most likely in a more removed and general way. I don't think he knew them personally then. He may have just felt they were more his political cup of tea than the Republicans who were after them. And then he had to see Bill get caught doing something so sleazy, and lying about it. And Keith was actually making hay from it with his show. If he were Geraldo, he would have been a happy man doing that. If he were Bill O'Reilly, he would have been a happy man. But I don't think Keith takes joy in the misfortunes of people he doesn't have a real reason to dislike intensely, nor does he enjoy watching them persecuted by people he doesn't like. I think that's what made him feel unable to go on. He felt like he had come so far in his career, only to end up a sleazemeister.

I think, although this is just a guess, that if Keith ever again felt he had to compromise his integrity to keep his show, he'd still dump the show first. And that means if he was told "People don't want to hear bad things about McCain/Hillary Clinton/Barack Obama, so please stop saying them," he'd sooner quit. But he'd also sooner quit than be forced to do his show in any way that compromises his principles--team player or not.

[DeepModem Mom]

3. As always, you make an excellent point!

You're right -- he walked away from the Lewinsky stuff, and I agree, he could do that again, under similar circumstances.

I really appreciate your thoughtful posts in the KOEB corner, Berry. And, come on -- you, and all the KOEBers, are experts on many, many things!

[RevCheesehead]

4. This could backfire on them, you know...

and we could end up with even MORE Keith viewers, thanks to their protest!

C'mon, Keith, you're gonna beat Billow Permanently! :bounce:

[Berry Cool]

5. Well, one thing's for sure.

The little handful of people calling for Keith's head isn't exactly striking fear in the hearts of MSNBC.

As for Billo, here's my theory as to why he's Keith's Public Enemy No. 1: Keith blames himself, personally, for Billo's high ratings and success. Because, at the time Billo was just hitting the airwaves and trying to find an audience, Keith had the number-one primetime cable news show. When Keith couldn't take it anymore and quit, he conceded the field to those left behind. Billo was one of them.

Chances are that Billo never could have built his audience to the size it is today had Keith still been there to compete against him. At least part of the viewership might have found Keith to make more sense in the long run and gone with him instead, keeping him the top dog. But with no Keith there, they gravitated toward the void, so to speak.

And Keith can't forgive himself for allowing that to happen.

The best he can do now is to try to reverse things...to take the viewership back, to find those who never drank the Kool-Aid and add fresh faces as well. If he can do that, and if he CAN get to the point where he tops the Orally, he will finally feel he undid the damage done by his departure.

[Patsy Stone]

6. I'm voting Democrat

for one reason: the SCOTUS. To me that's a hundred times more important than which Democrat wins.

[Berry Cool]

7. I know, I know, I know.

And if anything is required to force my hand, that will probably be it. It's like I said earlier: I'm going to let some poor woman be forced into having a baby she doesn't want, or put her life at risk, just because I'm in a tiff? That's something I can't see doing...that and a few other things that could result from the court.

I also keep trying to remind myself that this sect of Hillary supporters described above, this collection of absolute WACKJOBS, who have lost all sense of perspective, who would not know REAL sexism if it bit them in the butt, who keep calling the anti-Keith video "AWESOME!" and Hillary "AWESOME!" (really, they use the word "AWESOME!" as much as the children of the '80s...then again, I suppose many of them WERE children in the '80s) and use names to describe Barack Obama that my mother would have washed my mouth out with soap for using were she still alive...I keep telling myself that they are only a fringe minority of her supporters, a small sect of people who have gone around the bend, that they represent neither her nor her mainstream support.

I HAVE to do that, because otherwise thinking too much about the fact that they were hoping to get Fox News to cover their protest, and that several of them have expressed love for Bill O'Reilly, would send me around the bend.

I have to keep reminding myself: It's OK, because eventually they are going to realize what a heavy price they are going to pay for having mistaken the enemy of their so-called enemy for their friend. Or, put it this way, if it were Hillary on top now and not Obama, they would soon see how they were going to pay. The same way that Hillary would see how much it cost her to climb into bed with Richard Mellon Scaife and declare him her new BFF.

I guess I'm just seeing some stuff even I never thought I would see. And it saddens me.