KOEB 8/26/05: The Tiger, or the Lady?

[Berry Cool]

I believe our "buddy" at the anti-Olbermann site has inadvertently given us the ideal image for tonight:



Yes, the question of the night is:

Where's Keith?

Will he show up for Countdown, or will we the faithful viewers once again be left confronting an empty void of emptiness that will never be filled...not even if we EAT SOMETHING?

Tune in at 8 ET to find out...

[gkhouston]

1. hell, I'd be a little bit mollified if they'd give us Monica instead

of Amy the-instantly-forgettable. We just don't see enough of Monica anymore.

[SharonRB]

3. Well, Chris is better than Amy, but

not as good as Alison.

I had a feeling he wouldn't be on, but I'm pissed. No wonder his ratings are going down -- he's never here.

[gkhouston]

5. Ya think?

I'm pissed too, but to be fair, I've got a migraine, so I started the day with an attitude. I was heating some supper just as the show started; I'll probably watch Countdown while I'm eating and then switch off the set after that. Back in a while.

[bleever]

2. "Katrina & the Waves" But, not walking on sunshine.

And where is Keef?

They should tell us during "Keeping Tabs".

:hi:

[Berry Cool]

4. Gee, bleev, you're late with the bad joke.

I made it last night. Not that I'm proud of it.

*HEAVY SIGH* We really need a "frownie" for heavy sighs...

Hey, the only way we may be able to keep track of Keith from now on is to watch "Keeping Tabs" and see if he shows up...

[bleever]

6. That's what I get for missing class.

[Berry Cool]

8. I cannot BELIEVE this.

It is the second straight night of Aruba coverage on Countdown. Chris just announced it is coming up.

I am really, really curious now. I know you will all think I am imagining things, but have we finally seen the point at which Keith's producers have said, "But Keith, we're getting killed in the ratings--you HAVE to start covering Aruba" or "But this video that NBC made and can't show is a STORY, Keith, you can't just not cover it"--and he said "Watch me"?

So Chris says "Keith Olbermann is away." Didn't say, "on vacation." Said, "away."

Keep in mind: When he spent a week off the show, most likely not getting much sleep while he worried about possibly having cancer, with his tongue no doubt going to that spot in his mouth over and over again in that annoying way that tongues always have of finding stuff in your mouth that is bugging you, we were told he was "on vacation."

Now they show the smoking chimp and mention "I Quit." Well, at least they are acknowledging his continued existence. But I am still not reassured. :scared:

[bleever]

14. Do those ratings take into account the nights he misses? My guess

is that ratings are down because KO's been gone so much.

[Berry Cool]

20. Bleev, Keith got some of his worst ratings ever last week,

when he was on every damn day. I don't think he got more than 250,000 viewers a night tops. That's the kind of ratings Countdown gets when he's NOT on.

[gkhouston]

30. but judging on such a fine granularity is misleading

this is the last hurrah for summer vacations, for doing things outdoors as the days start to shorten, etc. I'd be more concerned if the trend continued.

[Berry Cool]

38. Yeah, but gk, his numbers were down while other shows' were UP.

Not all the other shows were down; they were actually getting BETTER ratings. So the "people are on vacation" theory holds little water.

[gkhouston]

41. you're assuming the shows have the same demographics.

I don't think Rita's and Joe's viewers bothered to take their trailers off the blocks just to get away from their relatives for a few days. }(

[gkhouston]

46. seriously, isn't Rita lacking in young demographics

an area where KO usually does well? And now he's doing poorly right at a time when people are trying to squeeze in vacations before school starts or they're setting off for college or grad school or they're spending their evenings shopping to get ready for school and they're not at home in time to watch... you guessed it.

It could be an odd distribution of diaries. It could be a deliberately odd distribution of diaries, one that was meant to favor Rita and which happens not to favor Keith. It could be a fluke. I'm not going to stress over a week or two. Statistically, it doesn't mean squat.

[Berry Cool]

52. I haven't even compared the age demos. Too depressing.

That could account for it. I'd like to think so, but who knows?

Maybe it is a fluke. Maybe it doesn't mean squat. It's just...strange, is all.

[Berry Cool]

51. Now I have to admit

that crack about the trailers made me laugh. :rofl:

Even if it's a wicked laugh, because frankly I know someone who lives in a "mobile home" and it's very nice and it wasn't until she moved into one that I discovered what prejudice and bias there is against ANYONE who lives in one...even when said person is intelligent, educated and has a decent job, decent hygiene, etc.

So, God will get me for that one. :-(

[gkhouston]

55. I had a great aunt who lived in one for many a year

the thing she liked best about it was the independence factor. It was usually located quite close to the home of another relative, but if she took the notion, she could up sticks and go somewhere else as she pleased. Not that she ever actually moved it but a few times, but the idea that she could leave any damn time she wanted to greatly appealed to her. It mystified me as a child, but as I grew older and my dad told me about an abusive husband in her past, I suddenly understood the desire for independence and mobility.

In any case, her trailer was clean and neat and fairly large and when we were kids we fought over whose turn it was to sleep over at her place when we were visiting Grandma. :-)

[RevCheesehead]

57. *snort*

:spray: OMG, that was funny! :rofl:

[gkhouston]

58. glad I could provide a laugh

after the disappointment of not having Our Hero (melodramatic sigh) be here to read us the news. :cry:

[Patsy Stone]

7. I like that opening photo

I like this one too: KO in Lego



Hi, all. I'm a bit sad he's gone and I'm protesting by watching A View to a Kill.

Happy Friday!

[Berry Cool]

9. It CAN'T be a happy Friday with no Keith.

and nothing but Legos to remember him by. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Maybe James Bond can find him. :shrug:

[Patsy Stone]

18. Maybe he could!

But he has to get through Christopher Walken and Grace Jones first.

:)

[bleever]

10. How long did you spend making that?

It's really nice.


:hi:

[Berry Cool]

17. bleev, you DO realize that Lego photo is online?

I believe it was made by one of Keith's guests who makes Lego pictures regularly. He brought it to the show and gave it to Keith.

I think.

[SharonRB]

26. You DO realize he was kidding...

[Berry Cool]

35. It was hard to tell

so I thought I'd test him.

[bleever]

42. It was you who were tested, Grasshopper.

Behold the power of "deadpan".

But you're so literate in your delightful posts, Berry, that I must also bow to you.


(I bet seito could come up with a good smilie for that.)

[Berry Cool]

53. Thanks, bleev.

I knew you could be playing deadpan, but the problem is, it's impossible to read deadpan online. You're left with nothing but the person's apparent intelligence based on previous posts to judge by, and if you guess wrong, people jump on you for acting as if you think said person was serious/stupid.

Sorry.

[RevCheesehead]

59. That's easy:

He didn't blink. :rofl:

[bleever]

69. Argh, lassie, that be right kind of ye,

calling in "blinking" when rightly it be mere "winking".

[RevCheesehead]

70. That's easy, too.

A wink by the Bleev would last a while longer than a blink, for emphasis.

[bleever]

64. At KOEB, we have a standing policy against jumping on each other

without permission.

:)

[gkhouston]

66. then how did Crispi get Botany in that wheel? n/t

[Berry Cool]

77. You know, you guys always make me laugh, no matter what...

...thanks. :hug:

[bleever]

36. Here:

[Berry Cool]

43. Aww, thanks.

You knew I needed a Cosmo. So thoughtful, bleev. You get my floaties tonight.

:loveya:

Oh, and sorry, too, if I am inadvertently sounding cross and ticking people off tonight. I'm in a cross mood. I also know from experience that it's not going to just go away, so I should probably get offline until it does.

[SharonRB]

87. Thanks, Bleev

You know the way to a girl's heart -- my favorite, once again.

On edit: I do believe that was for me, was it not...it appeared to be in response to my post?

[Patsy Stone]

23. What do you think I did during Katrina?

Thought it would make us smile. :hi:

[SharonRB]

12. I have CD on in the other room, but I'm barely listening

I'm just trying to catch up and see if I missed anything today. I was way too busy at work to check in during the day.

[gkhouston]

15. well I'm glad that you are with us, even if we don't have Keith

and we don't seem to have much in the way of news, either. Granted, I've been popping in and out of the room and just turned off the TV in disgust, but it seemed like the coverage was

5. hurricane (naturally)
4. plane crash
Oddball
3. Aruba

no mention of Bush's bad poll numbers or the Iraqi constitution, and I'd be surprised if either or those are the #2 story; seems like the last opportunity for meat is usually #3, unless it's an "all-meat" night.

You know, Kaplan's opinion of KO may not matter. If they fluffify his program too much, he's going to start reviewing his contract and he'll march his size 14s somewhere else the minute he's fulfilled his obligations. He seems to like to leaven the news but there has to be news there to leaven.

[Patsy Stone]

22. Hey, gk

Thanks for the lovely greeting. Yes, I read Berry's post above and I wonder myself how much of this is office politics. Maybe we're reading too much into it and the man just had boatloads of vacation time.

It's a shame if that's the case because everything you pointed out is spot on.

[gkhouston]

32. well, he's a smart man

when his mouth isn't leading a life of its own, so he isn't likely to jump ship unless he's got something better to jump to. Thus far, he's always landed on his feet. I think I can trust him to make a good decision again... especially as I'm not going to be consulted in any case. ;-)

Glad you're back with us so quickly. Apart from wet towels, how are you?

[Patsy Stone]

39. Very well, thanks

Our little blue corner of Florida escaped pretty well. The tree damage and flooding, oddly, was much further south, in the same areas hit by Andrew almost 13 years ago to the day -- and north of us too, in Hollywood.

One friend just had her power restored after 24 hours and the other went to a hotel with her husband.

Fear not, the MTV Awards will go on as scheduled, so I can sleep better knowing that. :)

[Berry Cool]

44. Glad to hear you're OK, Patsy.

At least something is going all right tonight.

[Berry Cool]

27. Yeah, and we got the Pizza Man bomb thing too.

Which actually haunts me to this day. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be that poor man, sitting in the parking lot of an Eyeglass World store I have been past a thousand times (it's on a huge big-box store strip of suburbia) with a bomb around your neck and a bunch of cops watching you, and none of them doing a damn thing to defuse the bomb or get it off you, knowing you are just going to sit there until the bomb goes off and kills you.

Imagine being an ordinary law-abiding person, and knowing that there you are, and nobody is going to help you, and a bomb on your neck is going to explode and you are going to die. Lovely.

I'm with you on what KO will do if things get too fluffy. He will do what he has in the past. He has already begun clearing the path over at ESPN. I am sure that if he chose to walk, by now ESPN would take him back with open arms.

[gkhouston]

37. they would, but I don't think he'd be content to do only sports

I think the "news" bug has him now, it a way it didn't four years ago. I don't think it will ever turn loose of him. 'Course, he may not have much choice, and the simple joy of being reunited with Dan would keep him satisfied for a long time. I suppose he could broadcast with Dan and try his hand at being a columnist or writing a book to feed other hungers.

[Berry Cool]

45. That's what I figure, gk.

The news bug has bit him, but if the only place he can find work is back on ESPN, he will take it and be happy and find other outlets on which to vent his love of news.

After all, now that he knows how to blog, what's to stop him from creating his own version of The Huffington Post? (Or just becoming a contributor?)

[Botany]

11. Rate the replacements ......

# 1 Alison looks & Snark
#2 Perky Girl already better then the others without even being in KO's chair
#3 Amy cute in grey but nothing to snark about
#4 Tonight's female de jur (of the day French spelling ????) Last time I saw
hair that color it was on Irish Setter ...... tone it down babe!
#5 Witless

Aruba coverage :puke:

Hello EDVs!

[SharonRB]

13. I'd put Chris before Amy, but

otherwise I totally agree with your assessment.

[Botany]

19. the last 3

all about the same .......

I want ....... Molly Ivans or Michael Musto or Stephanie :loveya: Miller

[gkhouston]

40. OMG

I'd love to see Molly as a guest on KO's show. I don't think she could do the show because she doesn't talk fast enough. ;-) (She thinks fast enough, she just doesn't pronounce fast enough.) I'd love to watch her make him chuckle.

[bleever]

16. OT: anyone know where the knickname "Rita Skeeter" originated?

And really, WTF with all the Aruba coverage?

[Botany]

21. I do know but .......

..... she is GAWD AWFUL!

[Patsy Stone]

25. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

Just don't look at the sub-Nixon poll numbers...

[bleever]

31. Sub-Nixon. I like the sound of that. Subnixonal, subnixonian...

:)

[Patsy Stone]

34. Sub-Nixoniosity?

Sub-Nixonness? :7

[Berry Cool]

33. "Rita Skeeter" is the name of a "reporter" character

in the Harry Potter books. She writes for the Daily Prophet.

She is, like Rita Cosby, nosy, pushy and interested in reporting gossipy items more than real news. Naturally, she likes to report any tidbits about Harry she can get because he is so well known as "the boy who lived."

Here's a quick place to catch up:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/rita.html

Miranda Richardson will play her in the next movie.

[bleever]

47. Yet another reason I've got to get around to the Harry Potter books.

Thanks.

[gkhouston]

49. You'd probably like them, quite a lot

Unlike some wildly popular things, most of the Harry Potter books are actually quite good.

[bleever]

54. This is the part I find hard to believe, even though trusted sources

of the highest repute have told me so.

Okay. I'm just finishing the 20th and final volume of Patrick O'Brian's series, and there will be a void in my life. I'll pick it up.

[RevCheesehead]

60. Do it, Bleev -

you won't be sorry. ;)

[bleever]

62. I kneel before the power of Cheese

does something really strange to me!

:7


It'll be my homework.

How you be, Cheese?

:hi:

[gkhouston]

63. bleev, if you're kneeling before Cheese

I rather think that should be doing something for her... :evilgrin:

[bleever]

71. Attendance may be light, but it's definitley Friday at the KOEB.

:)

[RevCheesehead]

67. Doing great.

Packers got some problems, but I'm fine.

How ye be, mate?

[bleever]

72. Hey, I've got TWO proud football dynasties in disrepair here.

At least I can follow whoever's looking good. Plus, Raiders have Randy Moss, and that's got to provide a little excitement if we get a little pass protection.

Niners: a medium year will be a relief.

[RevCheesehead]

73. You just said the magic words:

[bleever]

74. LWOL! And the funny thing is, he'll probably behave better than TO

if the preseason is any indication.


And by the way, if I'm saying I do something, I mean I used to.

:)

[Berry Cool]

78. Now THAT was a funny picture!

And don't forget:

"A rolling Moss gathers...he's stoned." :rofl:

[gkhouston]

75. Lord Bleever, if you're following whoever's looking good

you definitely need "pass protection". :7

[RevCheesehead]

81. I know we talked about a promotion,

but I do have trouble with the phrase "Lord Bleever." Professional reasons, ya know. ;)

How about "The Eye of All," or Mordor? :evilgrin:

[gkhouston]

84. I'm thinking "peer of the realm"

not "lord of all that he surveys". Given that his surveying is quite extensive, I'm not going to grant him that much sway, no matter how much he drinks. Or I drink. (hic)

[gkhouston]

24. Hmm, I'd have to rate

Alison as #1 because she's actually done it, but I bet if we saw Monica behind the desk she'd overtake Alison first time out of the box. Based on her quiz night outings, she's got plenty of spark and snark and we've seen her do good reporting.

so that's

#1 Alison
#2 Monica -- (but would probably change if they would EVER let her do it, hint hint HINT)
#3 Chris -- no snark, but a solid reporter.
#4 Amy -- tries for snark, fails. Forgettable, generic newsbabe.
#5 Alex. Icky icky awful poo.

[Botany]

50. the last 3

all just about the same ..... except Witless makes my skin crawl .....

BTW if you go to the Gull Bay thread ........ in the KO clubhouse ....
Crispini posted some pix of Gull Bay I sent her .........

Is it just me or do you want to scream Shut the fuck up! too? about the
Aruba story

[gkhouston]

56. I've had enough of the Aruba story

until they've made a definitive arrest, STFU. When they make an arrest, give a 5-minute report and then STFU. I feel sorry for the Holloways, but why is this the center of a news vortex? And frankly, is it healthy for them? I think not.

[Patsy Stone]

28. I keep missing Amy

Amy who? Where did she come from? Maybe Alison's on her way down here for the MTV Awards. :)

[gkhouston]

48. Amy Roebach (sp?)

I think she's on the MSNBC desk during the day, sometimes. She was on, last night.

[Berry Cool]

29. I rate the replacements like this:

#1: Keith

Everyone else...0.

Sorry. :shrug:

[RevCheesehead]

61. Best photo award for tonight's Waldo Olbermann.

Berry clever, berry clever.

Sorry, folks, but the moment I heard tweety say "in for Keith tonight...," I turned on the Packers game. It's a dreadful game (although Sparky must be happy), but even that is far better than listening to pseudo-news.

[gkhouston]

65. so was it baseball tonight?

maybe that's where he was...

(and yes, I know the Packers aren't a baseball team. I'm not that blonde.)

[RevCheesehead]

68. I dunno.

*dons :tinfoilhat:*
I like a good conspiracy as much as the next person, but I'm just not ready to hop on to the "Keith is disgruntled" bandwagon.

This is vacation time - the last hurrah for people everywhere. Look at the DU traffic this week - very low, very slow. Things will pick up after Labor Day. And what is the great American pastime? Uh-huh. Packers football. :evilgrin:

[gkhouston]

76. I was trying to respond to this last night when my cable connection

flaked on me. I'm thinking it's just baseball hooky. I'm hoping it's just hooky. After his revelation about how many cigars he used to smoke per day... I didn't know it was possible to be that angry with and frightened for a stranger. I had a friend who lost her father (a cigar smoker and a New Yorker, as it happens) to throat cancer and it was a long, horrible death. I guess they don't want to piss off the viewers by telling us he's on vacation again but maybe they could sneak in a few box scores on a footer during a bumper segment on the nights he's playing baseball hooky? :evilgrin:

As for conspiracy theories... whatever he does, I think he's going to honor his current contract. The last time I was able to catch him on Dan Patrick, which was about two calendar weeks ago (three shows ago), Dan was ribbing Keith about getting along with the management and Keith was taking it well. He made a statement to the effect that there was a man there in the studio that he (KO) could chuck an ice cube at that had been KO's boss and KO had fulfilled that contract and never sworn at him.

I think the take-home message, probably knowingly aided and abetted by Dan, is (specifically) that KO is not looking for a fight with Kaplan and (generically) that KO is maybe not the most difficult employee in the world after all. Coming from some people, I'd think that was self-serving, but if the rumors about Kaplan's blow-up are accurate, KO did try to relocate Bosszilla to a private office, which is a measured and appropriate response to someone exploding in your face. A "problem employee" would counterattack on the spot, even though it wouldn't be in his/her best interest. All of which makes me wonder how much of KO's bad boy rep was real and how much was fable. If it was all deserved, he's done a hell of a lot of growing up in the last ten years.

[Berry Cool]

80. Well, the Yanks were playing KC at home last night. So it's a possibility.

But. Again. I am hoping it was just hooky. I haven't quite put on the tinfoil hat, yet, I'm just sort of folding it into shape in case I should need it. That, and the worry beads.

I mean, consider this. At the end of last night's show, no reassurance that "Keith returns Monday." That tells me something: most likely, Keith ain't returning Monday. Not that I won't watch anyway just to make sure, but I have serious doubts he will be there.

And gk, the cigars thing scared me too. FOUR A DAY??? That's like smoking 32 cigarettes a day. People kid themselves about cigars, they tell themselves that smoking cigars is more sophisticated than smoking ciggies and that they are not hooked because what they are appreciating is the fine quality of the cigar, not just desperately sucking in a fix of nicotine...but the truth is that cigars are worse than cigarettes when it comes to the amount of bad stuff you take into your body.

I guess the reason it scares me is because it's not like having something removed from you and discovering it's not cancer automatically gives you a free pass from having any other kind of cancer or any other problems.

Funny--I mean, neither of us could actually see their faces so it's hard to tell--but I thought Keith was actually a little sensitive about the jokes Dan was making about him not finishing a contract. It was like, he was going to pretend not to take it seriously, but in some way, it hit home. If it didn't bother him, why go to all the trouble of pointing out that there was a man in the studio whose contract he had fulfilled? Somehow, he must have felt the *need* to point that out.

I don't think he's looking for a fight with Kaplan, either, but at the same time I don't think he's one to back down from a fight. I do think he's learned an incredible lot in the past ten years (whether or not every single story told about him is 100% true; I'm sure they're not), and one of the things he's learned is to let bygones be bygones. But if what was said about Kaplan is true (and I'm still not sure how much of it to believe; I'm sure it's quite a Rashomon story in which each person who supposedly witnessed it would tell you a different story about what "really" happened), I can't see Keith just backing down, either, for the sake of finishing out a contract. I can see him making the decision that he's not going to take any rash action while in a state of high emotion, but I can't see him, at leisure, making the decision that if someone at MSNBC wants him to do something he doesn't want to do, he's just going to shut up, grin and do it. I mean, he's not doing that now; every time he's covering a story he doesn't really want to have to cover, he TELLS us he doesn't want to cover it.

I don't think he's changed so much that there's not a rebellious bone left in him. And I don't think he will EVER change to the point that if someone wants him to do something that he thinks is just plain *wrong*, he will shut up and do it. At least I hope not. Because, as we all know, there's a difference between being "a good employee who keeps his promises and finishes out his contracts" and betraying your principles in order to keep your job, or make people think you are a good little employee. I have a feeling that if it ever comes down to making a decision between being perceived as a good little employee or a man who stood by his principles, Keith will go with his principles. The difference is, he will do it 100% for principle and 0% for spite or personal reasons. It won't get mixed up with other issues that aren't worth burning your bridges over.

I just wish I was convinced he's coming back next week. I know it could just be a simple summer vacation, and Lord knows after how he spent the last one, he deserves one he can enjoy. But it bothers me that we're not even being told he's "on vacation." Just "away." That bothers me a lot.

[RevCheesehead]

82. When Keith says "Stories my producers made me do.."

I sometimes wonder, "are there stories his producers won't let him do?

Perhaps Keith is at a nicotine detox program. Betty Ford clinic. Or holed up in a batting cage, letting out his anger. :)

[Berry Cool]

83. I don't know what he's doing, I only hope it's good and helpful.

Yeah, one wonders whether there are stories he's not allowed to do...and then one presses another crease into the tinfoil hat and wonders whether she just needs a more stylish one.

But it's a possibility.

And whatever it is he has to do to make getting the nicotine out of his system FOR GOOD a success, I hope he does. I mean, right now it looks as if he's broken the addiction to smoking, but the addiction to the nicotine may well remain. And until it's broken, he has some work to do.

[gkhouston]

86. such as?

I'm trying to think of one. I haven't seen much coverage on avian flu yet, but that's just a matter of time. :scared:

[gkhouston]

85. actually, since they didn't do a lot of coverage of what's going

on in Iraq or the implication of Bush's latest poll numbers on Friday, I kind of wondered if they were saving that for Monday when viewers are likely to be around and Keith could sink his teeth into it.

KO may feel sensitive about his rep as a bad boy but I didn't get the feeling Dan struck a nerve there. Keith's words, on paper, could be construed that way, but the delivery didn't sound that way to me. His voice sounded relaxed (there wasn't a noticeable rise in pitch, change in delivery speed, stumbling over words, etc.) and the exchange came across as banter. If anything, it might have been a softball from Dan to let KO openly address the issue.

I don't mean to imply that KO will passively tolerate any abuse and MSNBC has got a snowball's chance of persuading KO to do something he thinks is wrong, but there's a vast gray zone in the middle. Not everything in that gray zone is worth instantly quitting your job over, but some of it adds up over time. And we may be reading far too much into "stories my producers made me do". That phrase could cover anything from Draconian decrees from on high to KO coming out on the losing end of friendly arguments with Izzy.

[Berry Cool]

88. That could be.

They could be saving stories, I don't know.

I guess people can hear things different ways. I thought Keith sounded a little miffed, but maybe that was just me. Maybe it was a softball and I read things into it that weren't there. It's hard to tell.

And believe me, I know about gray zones and things could well lie in the gray zone. I know that in the absence of any meaningful information, I am trying to fill the void with all kinds of stuff that could be or could not be. That's something I freely acknowledge.

Just wish I had some alternatives. I think.

[Berry Cool]

79. Gee, thanks, Rev.

It seemed all TOO appropriate, unfortunately.