1/4/06 KOEB

[Botany]

Paradise
John Prine



When I was a child my family would travel
Down to Western Kentucky where my parents were born
And there's a backwards old town that's often remembered
So many times that my memories are worn.
And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away
Well sometimes we'd travel right down the Green River
To the abandoned old prison down by Adrie Hill
Where the air smelled like snakes and we'd shoot with our pistols
But empty pop bottles was all we would kill.
And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away
Then the coal company came with the world's largest shovel
And they tortured the timber and stripped all the land
Well, they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken
Then they wrote it all down as the progress of man.
And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away
When I die let my ashes float down the Green River
Let my soul roll on up to the Rochester dam
I'll be halfway to Heaven with Paradise waiting
Just five miles away from wherever I am.
And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away

[bleever]

1. What, no girls?

What kind of party is this?

[Botany]

3. Just my typical party .....

Guess the girls don't love us :cry:

[bleever]

4. At least Steph is coming, right?

Pass the pizza.

[Botany]

8. if you want

[bleever]

11. Ahhh...that's more like it.

:loveya:

[RevCheesehead]

12. My god, she's beautiful.

If I ever considered switching teams, she'd do it for me. :loveya:

[Patsy Stone]

10. We love you

We're just fashionably late. Sometimes it increases the attraction if we keep you waiting. :)

:loveya:

[WolverineDG]

26. bad girls don't fall for

men who date republicans. :evilgrin: but thanks for the pizza. :thumbsup:


dg

[gkhouston]

105. aw, Botany, doncha know

that you are our fav? :loveya:

[Olney Blue]

2. Hi Botany!

:hi:

[Botany]

5. Did I ever tell you that you are my Fav EDV?

Football in a little.

O'Rielly getting his ass kicked by Letterman & Abramoff :popcorn:

[Berry Cool]

6. Glad to edit...

with a thank-you.

[Botany]

49. Changed

Oh Daddy won't you take me back ......

[RevCheesehead]

7. Hello, boys!

Do I smell pizza? :hi:


Keith floaties are still mandatory: :loveya:

[bleever]

14. Hiya Cheese. We're celebrating life, while mourning the loss of those

poor miners. My heart goes out to their families and their community.


:patriot:

[Berry Cool]

15. And another edit...

here goes...

[bleever]

19. If I know Botany, the mine disaster was the last thing he had in mind

when choosing that image.

God be with those poor folks.

[Berry Cool]

24. hmmm hmm

now on to Sharon...(not SharonR, the guy who had the stroke)

[RevCheesehead]

29. Surely you know by now that Botany doesn't read the thread.

My advice is to let it go.

[Patsy Stone]

31. Watch out

You could also end up on "ignore". :hi:

[RevCheesehead]

39. Hi, Pats

Keith is handling this rather well. I'm glad he's giving it time.
I also sense some serious media criticism coming up.

[Patsy Stone]

46. It deserves a lot of dissection

from all angles. I'm glad I missed the CEO's press conference.

[Botany]

47. Or i could end up getting no cheesecake too.

You set Rev up but not me.

[Patsy Stone]

72. Cheesecake?

Oh... Cheesecake!

[Botany]

81. 1/1/06 thread ......

It was my Bay Airs day too but you and Crispini didn't notice

:cry:

I wonder where that ignore button is?

[Patsy Stone]

84. I knew what you meant. :)

Can't you enjoy both? What if I told you she's a Republican? :shrug:

It was for her birthday. If you ask her nicely, I'm sure she'd be happy to serve you up a piece. Okay, that didn't sound too good. :blush:

[Botany]

90. Excuse me ....

You try to get cheesecake away from the Rev?

[RevCheesehead]

92. Hey, Cuddles - you want a piece?

:evilgrin: (thanks, Patsy - I couldn't think of anything better!)

[Botany]

95. i just wanted Patsy & Crispini to wish me

Happy Bay Airs Day.

Is that asking for too much?

[RevCheesehead]

97. So, when was your BayAir-ass born? what year?

I need to know who's older. (me = 1962)

And, have some birthday cake:

[Patsy Stone]

104. Oh, I am so sorry!

I missed the fact that it was yours, too! Mea Culpa and please don't put me on ignore :blush:.

[Berry Cool]

109. Can I wish Bot a happy belated Bay Airs Day too?

Sorry for the delay...but it beats a DeLay...

[crispini]

118. Happy Bay Airs, day, sweetie.

Albeit a bit belatedly. You know you're my favorite ASTB'er :loveya::loveya::loveya:

[Berry Cool]

58. Actually, no, I didn't know Botany doesn't read the thread.

Now I'm REALLY confused.

And why on earth would anyone put me on "ignore" just for asking for that? :shrug:

[Patsy Stone]

63. It was a joke.

Because Botany put me on Ignore and he didn't know it. I had to ask people to PM him for me or answer posts. That's where the lasagna comes from. I told him that I was eating worms because I was on Ignore and as a make-up sex offering, he made me worm lasagna.

Bot: :loveya:

[Berry Cool]

68. Ah, I see...I get it now.

I admit, I forgot about all that, and never connected it to the worm-eating jokes. Call me slow...I didn't get the whole worm-lasagna thing... :-)

[gkhouston]

106. sex with Botany or worms for dinner...

I'm weighing my options...

[RevCheesehead]

107. Take your time.

Seriously. :7

[Patsy Stone]

108. Lady? Tiger?

Nice to see you here early. I'm off to numb my mind by watching Project Runway. :blush:
In the words of Heidi Klum: "Auf wiedersehen!"

[Berry Cool]

110. Patsy, did you see that one lingerie collection designed for Heidi

the other night? I was :rofl:! I called that one "Bedtime for Hitler."

[Patsy Stone]

120. This mess?

Heidi's Homeland! :rofl:

All I could think of was that old Wendy's commercial with the lady in the grey dress with the flashlight: "Swim Vear!" "Day Vear!" "Evening Vear!"

[gkhouston]

125. oh man, with lingerie like that

who needs contraception?

[Botany]

115. for you

As far as sex w/ me .... one can dream can't she? Besides aren't you married?

[gkhouston]

126. oh, I am definitely married

and if I weren't, I would be, by now, as a protective measure. :7

[Olney Blue]

48. Hi Berry, your note to Bot above was a reply to my post, not his-

[Berry Cool]

71. That's bizarre. I hit "reply" on his.

Whatever...

[RevCheesehead]

16. Even in death, we must celebrate life.

Oh god, this is heartbreaking... the celebration. :cry:

[Patsy Stone]

9. Tragic how the media gets it wrong.

Tragic how the mine was in such crappy condition and cited 8 times in the past three months.
Just tragic all around. I hope Mr. Hatfield burns in the hot place.

Hi, all!

Also, did I read that when Pelosi questioned Hadley, he responded later in a letter that he gave himself the authority to increase the NSA's capabilities? So, when did * know? Was is already agreed to? Did they have to go and convince * or did he call Hadley?


KO: :loveya: for your compassion and curiosity, as always.

[Berry Cool]

13. I'll drink to that, Patsela.

KO will cover this with his usual compassion and caring.

:loveya: Keith.

[ralps]

17. Hi Botany, Hi Everyone. This is so sad about the miners

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Olney Blue]

18. OMG- I'm so glad I missed this whole story last night.....

Seeing Throaty announcing they were alive... oh man.....

[Berry Cool]

20. Yeah, I went to bed early, and I think I had the right idea.

I would feel even worse than I do now if I had gone to bed thinking they had all been saved.

[Olney Blue]

22. Yes, me too. I can barely watch this.

"We don't even know if there is a Lord anymore"

[crispini]

119. This footage is making me cry.

I haven't seen it before. :cry:

[Patsy Stone]

23. Yep.

When I heard the news this morning, I thought it was amazing even one had survived. I hope they sue the hell out of the mining company.

[Patsy Stone]

21. I missed the whole thing too

I woke up to find 12 had died and it took hours for me to find out that people had been told they were alive. Oy.

Hi, Olney!

[RevCheesehead]

27. I watched the whole thing.

It was horrible. Just unbelievable.
And the press conference of the CEO - infuriating.

[WolverineDG]

36. i heard the good false news

just as i drifted off last night, then learned the truth in the morning when i woke up. :cry:

one of my morning papers was late today, probably because they rewrote the mining story.

dg

[Olney Blue]

28. When I woke up, they were discussing the blown media

coverage on MSNBC. So, I heard the whole story at one time.

"Truth was not served"- good, Keith- you are right.

Hi Patsy :hi:

[Clark2008]

54. OK - the journalist among you is going to step in.

This is what I did for 12 years.

I covered emergency service personnel.

And, for once in several years, I don't think the media "blew it." I think the media sucks in a lot of ways, now, but not in this case.

I, for once in five years, don't agree with Editor & Publisher because I covered shit like this. Granted, I worked for a newspaper and my sources were impecible and I never mis-reported a thing (I didn't. Was threatened to be sued, but no lawyer would take it because I was so in my rights, it wasn't funny, but that's another story).

The media on the scene were reporting what they knew from credible sources: the mine people, the families and the bells ringing in the church.

And, who among us, don't believe in what we hope to be true.

Such is 24/7 news, which is more of a problem than this one story.

[Olney Blue]

64. Hi Clark- thank you for your perspective.

:hi:

[Berry Cool]

93. I may be somewhat qualified to comment. I have two journalism degrees.

Are the media to blame for this? I think so. In part. They didn't keep asking questions and trying to get a reliable source when they should have gone on trying to. (Sorry, but the families, who apparently were hearing exactly what they wanted to hear--and may well have been misinformed--and ringing church bells are NOT reliable sources.)

Were the reporters in a tough situation? Yes. Is it difficult to keep your head and be sober when everyone around you is singin' and dancin' and makin' merry like Christmas? Sure. But that's what journalists are supposed to do.

Instead, they got caught up in the happiness of the moment. They forgot that their job is to report facts, not stand there and emote along with whatever the majority thinks is happening. They forgot that journalism is about reporting, not just about showing that you can cry along with people who are sad and laugh and rejoice along with people who are happy.

The mine people are also to blame. They had no damn excuse for waiting all that time after they KNEW. They didn't want to spoil the party? What the hell do they THINK they did? Bad news is best told as soon as it is confirmed. You don't wait until the play is over to tell Mrs. Lincoln her husband has been shot!

Sure, we all believe in what we hope to be true. But it's not a journalist's job to "believe." It's their job to get the freakin' FACTS. Even when it's hard to do.

There. You are all free to condemn me now for being too harsh.

[Clark2008]

101. They thought they had the facts.

And facts are different than truth.

Wanted to ask also, if you would PM me. Would love to learn more about where you worked and stuff.

I covered EMS for 12 years. I know that unfortunate crap like this happens. I was fortunate enough to always have the facts prove more into truth before deadline, however.

BTW, I really think most media sucks now. I just don't think they were horribly out of line, this time.

[Berry Cool]

111. In this case, "facts" and "truth" would have been the same in one sense.

Were they alive, or dead? Fact and truth would have been the same.

I don't doubt for a second that unfortunate crap and miscommunication happens. But that's all the more reason the job is so hard.

You want to know the truth? I don't make my living as a journalist (as a writer, but not as a journalist). But that doesn't mean I don't know or understand how hard it is. That, I had to learn.

I think they were out of line this time. But they were pushed into it to some extent by the push to be first with the news and also by the mistake of going along with crowd psychology. And they were not the only ones to blame. They DID get fed bad information.

[Clark2008]

113. That's what I was saying.

I've been fed bad information and still had no time to check it thoroughly and I know I wasn't neglectful. I had to follow up the next day and report why the info was incorrect. I had to swallow my own bile because it was my byline, even though the source was credible.

I do think the 24/7 news gig makes it more and more and more difficult to check those facts. Or those truths.

But, I still have to wonder, after the first 20 minutes, once the rescuers knew... why didn't they tell anyone? Not even the families.

[Berry Cool]

121. Well, that's the question we have to live with.

The media are saying they sourced what they did thoroughly. They're saying they didn't know what else to do when they had everyone and his dog telling them the miners were alive, had been seen coming out, etc. And of course that they were under deadline pressure or scoop pressure or what have you, which we know.

The company kept silent for way too long...and their excuse is that it took them two hours to verify.

Someone is not telling the whole truth here.

But it looks as if a lot of it turned out to be a big game of "telephone," and it's really sad.

I am still amazed when I look back and see all those people saying that THEY SAW AND HEARD people saying things like "Praise the Lord, we got them all out." How can that be?

[SharonRB]

34. I woke up about 1:30 and the local news was on

Hubby had been watching the football game, which, unbeknownst to me had gone into triple overtime, which is why the news was on so late. Then he told me they were alive and I went to back to sleep. Then found out this a.m. that only one had made it. So awful.

[Patsy Stone]

41. That's right. Triple overtime

Wide Left x3? If not, Wide Left x2 and a Hit the Pole. I went to bed after the game at 1 a.m. I hadn't watched anything between KO and this morning other than the "Social Security Bowl".

:)

[SharonRB]

42. I went to bed at 11 after watching CSPAN after KO

They're continuing their Abramoff coverage tonight. I have no desire to watch the game, so I'll probably watch CSPAN again and then try to fall asleep while hubby watches the game.

[RevCheesehead]

43. Last one hit an upright.

So sorry, Pats, but I was rooting for Penn State. :hi:

[SharonRB]

44. I didn't watch any of it.

[Patsy Stone]

51. So was I.

I hate FSU with a passion. I always root against them. Always. I swear Tallahassee will demand Bowden be interred in Doak Campbell Stadium. It's that war chant cheer (Boo, Atlanta Braves!), and the fact that I live in UM Hurricane Country. Even if I didn't, I'd still hate 'em.

Go, Penn State!

[SharonRB]

52. Since we already beat Penn State this year, I didn't really

care who won. I guess Penn State winning made us look better.

[RevCheesehead]

55. Excellent!

And keep in mind, that in no way is this smiley :hi: chanting the war chant.

[Patsy Stone]

61. Excellent! LOL.

Poor Ariel Sharon. Lke he didn't have enough problems.

[SharonRB]

25. I'm here

Just a bit late. Hubby was on the 'puter.

[Olney Blue]

32. Hi SharonRB!

:hi:

[SharonRB]

35. Hi, Olney

:hi:

[Patsy Stone]

37. Doesn't he know

you have a standing appointment? :hi:

[SharonRB]

40. Yeah, he does

But I went to the gym (yes, I'm trying again -- 3 times last week and 2 so far this week) and got back about 7:50, so I wasn't here to nag him early enough and he was finishing something.

[WolverineDG]

82. congrats sharon!

i know you really wanted to get back into the swing of it & am glad you are doing it!

i made it to the gym today extra-early (5:15a)...2 or 3X week, plus work outs at home. :)

dg

[SharonRB]

89. I used to do the 5:30 a.m. thing, as you know

I just can't get up that early anymore. So, my new thing is to come home after work, eat something and then go to the gym from about 6:15 to 7:30 or so. That works as long as I get out of work by 5 or so and don't have anything after work. And, it only works Mon-Thurs, since Friday they close early for Shabbat. The week-ends suck, too -- they don't open until 1 p.m. on Saturday and by that time I'm showered and dressed and in the middle of my day, so I don't feel like getting all sweaty and starting all over. Sunday if I'm not there by 7 a.m., it gets too crowded and I need my sleep. Once the weather warms up a little I can walk outside on the weekends, though.

I've also started cutting up veggies to snack on at night instead of eating cookies and nuts. It's going to be hard work, but I've got to do something. I'm hoping that maybe by the time we go to NY I can lose 10 lbs or so. It just goes so slowly at my age it's very frustrating.

[WolverineDG]

103. have you tried fitday.com?

crispi suggested it in another forum. it's ok. i haven't tracked my food in a couple of days ( :spank: bad bad ), but it was an eyeopener.

i hear you on the frustration on losing the weight. i've been stuck at the same weight for months, even went to the dr. to get tests done...nope, nothing wrong. :grr: :grr: :grr: at least i get into smaller sizes, though.

keep up the good work & you will reach that goal in time for our invasion of nyc! :)

dg

[Patsy Stone]

86. Good girl!

and I was just teasing. I can't believe the Rose Bowl game isn't on in here yet. :)

[SharonRB]

94. I know you were teasing.

What do you mean? The Rose Bowl started at 8:00.

[Patsy Stone]

102. :)

I meant it was astounding that the moment KO was over, maybe even before, the TV hadn't magically been changed to the game. That situation has since rectified itself, however, and the game is on in here now.

[Greylyn58]

30. Evening All

Hope everyone is doing well tonight.

This is such tragic news. I've been talking to my dad about this and as I mentioned last night, my grandfather(his dad) was a coal miner as was many other family members from that side of my family. One of my Uncles lost a leg in a mining accident and my grandfather died of Black-Lung. Mining is back-breaking work and I'm so glad my dad decided he couldn't do that kind of work. I've been in an exhibition coal mine(use to be a working mine)--It was fascinating, but not a job I would ever want to do.

God I feel for these people. This particle mining group has been sighted with infractions in the past--240 I think I heard. Something is so wrong with this.

[Olney Blue]

38. Hi Greylyn! Is that a puddy cat in your picture?!

:hi:

[Greylyn58]

45. Yes, that was Sheridan and his old friend Fritzie

She has gone over to the Rainbow Bridge. When my ex and I divorced, he kept Fritzie and I took Sheridan. I would have liked to take both of them, but it wasn't possible. I really miss her.

[Patsy Stone]

67. Another product of Bush Deregulization

Oy. Hi, Grey! :hi:

[Botany]

33. I looked up where the mine was.

Because I have been through Buckhannon, W.V. a number of times.

Tallmansville, W.V. is just south of it and @ the end of the road on a mountain ..... probably where the mine was.

[bleever]

50. Funny, I don't think about Ohio and WV sharing a border.

Such beautiful country. I've driven through it a few times.

[Botany]

56. I just know those towns.

With the billions taken out of the ground in that state so many people are
still hurting ..... but we can piss away 1/2 trillion $s in Iraq.

P.S. I put the great John Prine's song on the opening of this thread.

[Clark2008]

57. My best friend in college was from Morgantown, WVa

And she sounded like a "damn Yankee." :)

I say this as one who will be hitched to a "damn Yankee" in three days.

:hi: Bleev!

[bleever]

79. I didn't know this was a mixed marriage you're getting into, Clark.

"North and South Shake Hands"

[Clark2008]

116. Oh... more mixed than you know!

I'm Irish-Cherokee and Southern - born and raised.

He was born in South Africa, but is Swedish on his father's side, Semetic (Jewish) on his mother's side. Raised in Brooklyn, Boston and Baltimore.

My ex-husband is Palestinian and Muslim. My future husband is Jewish. I'm in the South and, well, Irish Catholic. My dad was Southern Baptist.

Did I mention I LOVE it when I question Israel's motives and get called anti-Semetic. :rofl:

I have so many Semetic men in my life (Arabs are Semetic, too) that the prospect of my being anti-Semetic makes me just buckle over in laughter.

I'm the UN - in one household. Hee hee

:hi:

[bleever]

130. Maybe the general should consider you for UN ambassador

when he becomes president.

:thumbsup:

VERY impressive. And, if you honored all those traditions, you would be able to eat...just about nothing!

:rofl:

[Berry Cool]

96. Southeastern Ohio might as well be part of WVa or Kentucky.

It's very different from the rest of Ohio. Mountainous and full of people who talk with Southern accents...only, unlike the Deep South, they talk FAST. Lots of coalminers and ex-coalminers down there...it's part of Appalachia, and there's a lot of extreme poverty. You'd be amazed.

[Olney Blue]

53. Thanks for the map, Botany.

I don't know WV very well, and this helps. I have been to Harper's Ferry
a couple times. It is amazing. There is an old Inn on the top of a mountain
that looks over some beautiful hills and a river.

[Patsy Stone]

77. I've canoed down the Shenandoah

from Harper's Ferry. It's beautiful.

[Olney Blue]

83. Almost heaven....

[Patsy Stone]

87. We had a funny moment

we were having lunch and one of the people with us dropped his BBQ potato chip on one of the pale rocks. We all just sat there, mesmerized by the unnatural, over-exaggerated color of the thing as seen out in nature. LOL.

[Berry Cool]

59. Botany...THANK YOU.

What a lovely tribute.

It's straight from the heart. Much appreciated. :hug:

[SharonRB]

60. Totally off topic, but I have to share

I went out to Wikipedia today, which I've never really done before. Just for purposes of checking it out, I searched for "Bill Clinton." When his entry came up, someone had replace his photo with -- how shall I put it? -- with a photo of a man's hand involved in some activity with another part of his body. Doing my civic duty, I went into the code and removed the photo. A few minutes later I went back and someone had put the real Clinton photo back in. I looked at the history and obviously whoever put the offensive photo in had done it many times before and it had been pulled many times. Their IP address showed up many times. Since Wikipedia can lock entries from people without log-ins, I don't understand why the opened up this entry to anyone.

[Patsy Stone]

74. Bizarre.

I had no idea they could block people. That's a great question.

[SharonRB]

76. They're starting to require logins

You have to be approved and get a password, etc. I had heard that, but I didn't know that some entries are left wide open for anyone. Of all entries to be blocked, Bill's should be. I'm sure it gets freeped all the time. When I saw that photo (at work no less) I couldn't believe my eyes. It was really gross.

[Olney Blue]

75. Wow, that's awful.

Don't they have monitors for porno stuff?

[SharonRB]

78. One would think.

Maybe they do, judging from the number of times it looked like this had been pulled and put back in (please ignore the visual that may evoke), and I may have just coincidentally seen it at just the right (or wrong) moment. It was just seconds after I had removed the photo before the correct one was put back in by someone.

[Berry Cool]

112. I guess you were doing God's work, Sharon.

Then again, I'd be awfully tempted to add a picture of a loofah and a falafel to any Wikipedia entry on Bill O'Reilly.

[bettyellen]

62. Ladies, Botany + Bleever: KO needs your HELP on this thread right now!!!!

Has KO been muzzled?
sheesh, girls, tell it like it is!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=53446&mesg_id=53446

[Patsy Stone]

65. Done!

Hey, betty!

[SharonRB]

66. And done.

I saw that thread after the first post and just ignored it and came over here. I see it's gotten some response now.

[bettyellen]

70. C'mom DG, Cheese, Berry, Bleever, Botany, Onley !! KO is calling you!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=53446&mesg_id=53446

[bettyellen]

73. Hey Greylyn, Ralps, and Clark!! You too! KO needs you right now!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=53446&mesg_id=53446

[WolverineDG]

88. i was watching the rest of the show

but i answered your call to arms! :patriot:

dg

[bettyellen]

91. tks, DG! what a great little smiley!

[WolverineDG]

99. : patriot : n/t

[Berry Cool]

98. I helped out.

Sheesh, sometimes DU is just TOO paranoid for me. It's like, if the sun rises in the East tomorrow morning, someone's bound to start a thread saying "Did * arrange for the sun to rise in the East just to distract people from his administration's scandal?"

I mean, I can understand a certain amount of MIHOP and LIHOP thinking, but jeez, for every little thing...I'm surprised some of them don't listen to Dan Patrick's show and get mad at him for talking about sports there instead of just going on and on about how terrible * is.

"Wait...calm down...I said, 'REGGIE Bush is great'..."

[bettyellen]

100. thanks! i know, he covered Abramoff when others said nothing....

and everybody goes bonkers tonight! Frankly, I found so many other shows reporting sooo exploitive of the families' greif, i just couldn't watch. it was a great show tonight. that's the thread that should have been posted!

[WolverineDG]

123. i went back

& went :wow: when i saw who the OP was...i never pegged sis as having DU DQ tendencies. :crazy:

dg

[SharonRB]

124. Thanks for the tip on fitday.com, DG

I didn't remember hearing about it before. I'm going to give it a try. It's hard to get the calories for some foods accurately, though. For example, I have a "Michigan" salad from one of the gourmet fruit stores around here and have no clue about the calories or nutritional make-up. I had to kind of guess on the individual ingredients -- romaine lettuce, gorgonzola cheese, pine nuts, dried cherries, balsamic vinaigrette dressing...Some of those aren't even in the fitday database. Guess I can at least get close and it will give me an idea of where I have to cut back.

My head is finally in the right place to do this -- let's see if I can reach my ultimate goal by June.

[WolverineDG]

127. maybe the store can tell you?

it's worth a shot. :)

dg

[SharonRB]

129. I doubt it.

There are way too many things I eat this would apply to. I'll just have to use my best guess (or always buy prepared foods with nutritional labeling :sarcasm:).

[Patsy Stone]

69. Oh, KO does read DU.

"...and wearing yet another hat". LOL.

I love the caption "You Should Know Jack". :rofl:

[Patsy Stone]

80. Skeeter: "Family members are seething."

And all I can think is: Yeah, at you!

:puke:

[bettyellen]

85. Botany, what a lovely OP, thanks for that. and the rest of you...

tks for creeping over to the KO thread and taking care of KO.
muzzled my patootey. really, that mine coverage was the more respectful and thought provoking reporting. i am so disgusted over here from all the exploitive rubber necking going on (on other shows) the last two days.

[Berry Cool]

114. It's one thing to just milk other people's tragedy for all it's worth

and entirely another to attempt to find out what went wrong, why people got bad information and why it was allowed to spread and continue for so long, and why people were working in a place known to be that dangerous vs. other mines.

The difference between KO and the others is that KO is not a sob sister, he's looking for more than just emotion to exploit.

It's not the story...it's how it's covered.

:loveya: Keith.

[Gogi]

117. For some reason I stayed up and watched Cooper...

saw the man run up and tell Cooper the miners were alive and saw the woman and her two kids run up and tell him they were'nt a couple hours later. This, to my mind, exposes the major flaw in Cooper's personally-involved-throw-skepticism-to-the-wind reporting, he should have kept checking. It also reminds me of how extreme the reporting on NOLA got and how a lot of the criminal acts supposedly committed in the Superdome and Convention Center were baseless rumors. True, the company should have had a liaison with the families and the press, but, this does'nt excuse the press from not saying we're still checking because these are still rumors. Cooper needs to cultivate some detachment. As for Rita, well, she could've stayed at her anchor desk in Secaucus. She spoke to a lot of people via the phone and her presence at the minesite brought nothing to the story.


:loveya: KO, I knew you'd devote tonight's show to the tv and press coverage of this tragedy. (And, if anybody disses you because you don't do on site reporting, send 'em to me. I'll set 'em straight!)

[Berry Cool]

122. Excellent points, Gogi.

I remember reading those NOLA stories and how some people on DU were screaming "Oh my God!" and while it all sounded horrible I couldn't help but start having my BS detector go off. So little girls were being routinely raped in bathrooms repeatedly for hours...they know it is so because someone in the Superdome told them it was so...uh, yeah, right. It brought me back to how when I first got away from the TV on 9/11, I heard people repeating to each other the rumors about the bombs that were supposedly elsewhere (like the Capitol). I had already heard on TV that these rumors had been debunked so I did my best to spread the word that from what I had seen on TV, this was not true.

I think Rita Cosby did NOTHING for this event...she was there JUST to emote. To find a sad story to exploit or a happy story to exploit and milk for the sake of emotion...that was all. Coop? He might have gotten bad info and tried to source it as he says, but it seems to be from what I hear that his main source of info was people running up to him and telling him things. :shrug: Maybe I'm wrong?

[Gogi]

131. You're not wrong, Berry.

All he did was ask them how they heard it which is useless. At least Rita had producers asking questions for her but they still were flying on hearsay. I listened to Cooper today and he did not express a shred of doubt about his own role in the debacle. The mining company can stand accused of not realizing they needed to feed the media maw but they did'nt lie to the families and should not be accused of it by innuendo on tv. Not all companies are media savvy.:-( As for the mine safety issues...same old, same old...promises followed by nothing.

[gkhouston]

128. You said it, bettyellen

Most of the other jaw-flapping made me want to buy a gun and some birdshot (especially Rita's :puke:), but KO done real good. :thumbsup: