Any other towns experience odd INS sweeps? (aka am I crazy?)

[oldlady]

last night our local Spanish speaking radio station was announcing INS sweeps at dozens of businesses in my city. For example, these teams went through the mall & demanded papers from Hispanic-looking people & took away folks not carrying papers. We drove around and saw the vans, uniformed people, Latino/a folks being taken to vans, etc. Today-- nothing in the media. Now, this morning the same radio station is reporting it was all a hoax and the police department is calling a press conference to report that nothing happened. Isn't it odd that the first reporting in the press will be police denying that something that wasn't even reported in the press happened? I'm so confused-- is this happening anywhere else? There were hundreds of police calls apparently & when the radio station said they are at Location A & we drove to Location A, there were unmarked white vans... this is Madison, Wisconsin & while I have a low post ocunt I've been here for years. Any other towns (other than the reported events last week in NY, Mass, etc.) go on over the weekend? Anyone willing to think with me?

[mimitabby]

1. not that i know of

Oldlady,
You don't have a low post count! I haven't heard anything like this, sounds like local vigilante
stuff but who knows.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

2. I don't know about the specificities...

but I just wanted to add that by law if you are not a U.S. citizen you are required to carry your visa or green card with you at all times because (it even says so on the green card's sleeve) you can be asked by anyone to provide that information.

Although that smacks of racial profiling (that is, specifically targeting hispanics), it is not unlawful to ask a person for proof of his immigration status.

[oldlady]

11. it is in my city

if the local police are involved and not acting with INS they cannot ask for papers. It's a prgressive city & this is the local police department's officical printed policy.

City of Madison, WI - Police Department Policy:

4-3800 ENFORCEMENT OF IMMIGRATION LAWS

The Madison Police Department recognizes and values the diversity of the community it serves. The purpose of this policy is to provide guidance to our officers on this issue and to ensure equal protection and fairness is afforded to all persons, regardless of their immigration status. The Madison Police Department will cooperate with the Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) as it would with any other law enforcement agency. However, it is the policy of this department that its officers shall not arrest or detain any person solely for a suspected violation of immigration laws, except upon the request of INS. Madison Police Officers have a responsibility to investigate and contact any person they believe is involved in suspicious activity. If upon investigation probable cause to arrest exists, unrelated to the person's immigration status, officers may effect an arrest for that specific violation.

4-3800.1 Immigration Documents

Officers shall not ask any person to produce an Alien Registration Card (Green Card) or other immigration document except when assisting the INS. This does not prohibit an officer from considering an Alien Registration Card as a form of identification if an individual offers it as such. Immigration documents identified as evidence in a criminal investigation may be seized according to State Statute 968.10 (Search and Seizure) and State Statute 968.11 (Search Incident to Arrest).

http://www.madison.com/communities/madisonlucha/pages/issues2.php?php_page_set=5

[Marie26]

19. That's not right

Immigration is a federal concern, & only the federal INS or Border Patrol officials should be the one enforcing immigration laws. Local police should not be involved in deporting people, or verifying their immigration status. And most local police forces like it that way - if they are forced to become involved in investigating immigration matters, they would lose any trust in the immigrant community.

[peacetalksforall]

22. What you're saying is logical. If police are supposed to enforce

immigration, then how do they handle an accident or a 911 call of abuse or theft or whatever? There would have to be legislation that would define what they do in the event they can't find papers on a victim or a perpetrator.

[htuttle]

23. True -- Who carries their 'papers' around with them?

I don't. I don't "look" or sound like an immigrant, but what if I did? How do you prove you're a citizen if you were born here?

The idea of police sweeping a mall asking people for their papers and arresting people who don't have any sounds like an invitation for a lot of lawsuits...

[SlipperySlope]

34. I carry my papers when I am in a foreign country.

I carry my passport whenever I am travelling internationally, so I would expect anybody from outside the US legally visiting here to do the same.

[htuttle]

38. Yes, but how do they know who's 'visiting' and who lives here?

If an INS agent confronted me and asked me for my proof of citizenship, though I was born here, what am I supposed to show them? How do they know who to ask and who's required to have paperwork on them?

[BooScout]

49. I don't carry mine....

I live in the UK and never carry mine. Some Hotels over here require that you leave your passport with them. Have done it in London.

[Marie26]

50. I didn't carry mine

when I was within another country on a visa. It would never even cross my mind to do so. A person w/a visa is a long-term resident, not a tourist that's going to be walking around w/a passport everywhere. Besides which, in the US you are not required to carry identification at all times - it's part of that whole freedom of movement thing. I wonder if the recent push to make everyone carry national identification is part of the reason for this crackdown.

[tonka023]

63. The permanent residency card (green card) fits in your wallet

I always carried mine when I was living in the US.
I was told I was in violation if I didn't have it with
me at all times. Was never asked for it anywhere
except the border though.

[htuttle]

64. I don't have one

Where would a natural-born citizen get one of those?

[hootinholler]

40. There's the rub...

If you are hispanic and born in the US, you don't have to carry jack for ID. You will then be swept up for not carrying a green card you don't have.

-Hoot

[SmokingJacket]

53. Sort of an illogical law, though...

because what if they ask me, a citizen, for proof of my immigration status, thinking that because I look hispanic, I might be illegal? But of course I AM a citizen, and I don't carry proof of that. What's to differentiate me from a non-citizen without papers?

[Marie26]

55. That isn't the law.

They can't go around challenging people for ID, and immigrants are not required to carry their visa/documentation at all times. What's interesting is that there is a new bill pending in Congress that would require this. In March, Arlen Specter created a new immigration bill that criminalizes immigrants w/o papers, & requires local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration laws (which they do not do now). This would force all immigrants to carry documentation at all times (and anyone who looks like an immigrant might need to as well). In addition, this bill would allow INS to deport people w/o a hearing within 100 miles of the border, & allows "indefinite detention" of people who can't be returned to their home country. Does it sound like a police state yet?

http://www.aclu-mass.org/update/index.html

[SmokingJacket]

60. Yeah, that's totally nuts, for the reasons I mentioned.

People who AREN'T immigrants will have to carry papers too, to prove that they're not.

[Marie26]

3. Charlotte had a HUGE sweep

a few days ago. It made the front page of the newspaper.

[CoffeeCat]

10. Are you talking about a sweep--like the one the OP describes?

Do you mean that government officials went around asking people for their papers? And if people didn't have them, they were taken into custody?

Thank you for any clarification.

[oldlady]

13. yes-- the mall, restaurants, groceries, hotels & some factories

between 7 pm & 11 pm -- but, don't bother googling it there is absolutely NO press coverage

[Marie26]

27. Oldlady, which day did you hear that?

This national raid seemed to go down on Wed., April 20. Is that the day that this alleged "hoax" occured?

[Marie26]

17. I believe so

I've included a link to a local news article. The article mentions raids at some local employers. But, unofficially, they are also stepping up random stops & searches of Hispanic individuals. It isn't getting nearly the press coverage that it should, IMO. The English-language press is reporting the raids on businesses, but Spanish-language media is reporting that officials are beginning to randomly stop people who look Hispanic & ask for their immigration papers.

And I, personally, believe the raids are far more widespread than has been reported. I know of one woman who was stopped last week while driving with her 4 children (allegedly for not wearing a seat belt), and was brought into police custody. When they discovered she did not have a visa, she was simply transferred to federal custody and taken to a INS detention facility to be deported. All of this was done w/o notifying her family, or her attorney. Her 4 young children were simply put in foster care - and they never even had a chance to say goodbye. The old policy used to be that immigrants would be detained only if there were some other valid reason for the arrest, but now it seems like they are arresting people only to check out their immigration status. And no one in the mainstream press seems to really notice or care.

http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/local_news/?AC=&ArID=118139&SecID=2

[shoelace414]

a sweep the way you explained it couldn't happen

(I know it could, but I HIGHLY doubt it did)

It was probably some comedy troup or something like that.. maybe some performance artists

[annabanana]

24. is your outrage meter busted?

I have found that it is hard to imagine anything that "couldn't happen" in the U.S. these days. I can barely work up the incredulity to insist "probably not"

[Marie26]

26. You think?

I know that a similar sweep happened locally, while all that was reported was a raid on one specific business.

[rman]

43. "could not happen", "could happen" - why do you doubt it?

Why would "some" performance artists be able to do what Immigration Police could not do?

In fact your argument is so far-fetched that i am starting to think this sweep is supposed to be covered up.

[shoelace414]

54. because picking up "hispanic looking" would pick up american citizens

and then we'd be deporing American citizens.

[rman]

57. They picked up hispanics who had no papers on them

Not just anyone who looked hispanic.
It is possible that US citizens are among those. Most likely there will be an opportunity to get the papers (if they have any) before they are actually deported.

I still can't comprehend how you can think it is more plausible that this was hoax done by "some performance artists".

[Warpy]

4. This is nothing new or different in California, Texas, Arizona

or a lot of other states out west. The only difference is that INS has realized that scumbag employers in the north and northeast are now actively recruiting Mexicans and Guatemalans, shipping them across the border in trucks (sometimes refrigerated, as camoflauge), supplying them with fake paperwork, and shipping them up to the employers. INS sweeps are nothing new out here. Y'all are just seeing them for the first time.

This is why the minimum wage needs to be raised and scumbag employeres who exploit anyone with substandard wages to be fined into poverty and thrown into prison.

Free market wages, my ass.

[helderheid]

5. Had them here

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/03/26/MN240765.DTL

Snip:

Similar arrests have been made at airports in Seattle, Portland, Ore., Salt Lake City, Atlanta, Boston and Las Vegas. Some of the suspects from the earlier operations have been deported or convicted of immigration violations.

The INS sweep followed audits at San Francisco International of 90 employers that turned up a dozen suspects and at Mineta San Jose International of 48 companies, where the remaining 13 were arrested.

[Divernan]

6. Bet bidnesses on Bush's donor lists do not get "swept".

Does anyone seriously doubt that businesses which have contributed to the GOP will NOT be
raided by the INS? And if so, they were given plenty of advance warning. "Hey Biff, old buddy, how's that backswing doin? Just wanted to give you a heads up that we've got to do a little collectin of illegal workers to shut up our damn religious base and the Dems. So get out your Daytimer and we'll pencil a date in. Y'know, this is a great opportunity, if you want to get rid of any wetbacks who are old and slow, or making any troble for y'all. Best to Biffy & the kids."

[lala_rawraw]

7. did you document this or is there info somewhere on this?

[oldlady]

16. I'm so mad that we didn't

we went out with the video camera to do just that, but when the local tv station said they'd been following the story all night (cell phone call to station) we didn't film-- just watched. Now, this morning, no news -- except the police department is supposedly doing a press conference on the unreported story in a short while (said my alder)-- very weird. We know people who called last night reporting that their workplaces were being raided, but are having trouble reaching people to give more info this morning. The police are saying it was a hoax... just wondered if other towns had such weird occurrences, too.

[mtnester]

8. Ohio going gangbusters in cooperation with DHS

Maybe the good folks down Cincinnati way could tell you more about it...it seems the be a big deal. All under the good auspices of cleaning up Over The Rhine, dontcha know.

My son tells me there are literally armed folks all over lately, and he lives just a few blocks from the Cincinnati Police Station.

[CoffeeCat]

9. Are they really rounding up people???

Is that true...that government officials are approaching Hispanic-looking people and asking them for their papers? Is this what happened in Charlotte?

I don't know what to say about Oldlady's story--because there is a chance that it was a hoax by the radio station. However, if it's happening in Charlotte, then it's plausible that it's happening in other towns.

Oldlady, if it is true, I'm sure there will be very vocal family members who will be frantically searching for loved ones and demanding to know where they were taken. If it's true--I can't imagine that you've heard the last of the story.

On another note--I am convinced that Hispanics are being vilified for very specific reasons that serve our government. Why? And what is going on? I guess we can all speculate. I'm very upset that right-wing hate radio is totally demonizing Hispanics and positioning them in the worst light. There is a concerted, deliberate effort to make people dislike and be suspicious of Hispanics. It's as if they're being objectified. I find it very terrifying.

Our immigration policy has been wide open for years. Nothing was ever done about border security. After 9/11 there was justification for increasing border security. It was never done. However, we all have to take off our shoes at airports. It just doesn't make sense. Because this administration has demonstrated that it is pure evil--my feeling is that nothing was done, in an effort to set a trap for undocumented workers who were allowed to come here and work. I'm sorry...I know that's extreme, but that's what it FEELS like to me.

Also, what about those "detainment camps" that have been built...the ones with razor wire around them? I really don't think that all of this is unrelated. We should have our eyes wide open every step of the way--regarding all of this.

[Marie26]

21. They really are.

This was a nation-wide sweep that took place in a number of cities across the US on Wed., April 20. According to MSNBC, these raids took place "at several locations in upstate New York and in Biglerville, Pa.; Charlotte, N.C.; Cincinnati, Houston, Phoenix, Richmond, Va., and Westborough, Mass." But these raids occured in a number of other cities, as well. (For example, there's no mention of Birmingham, AL, Portland, OR, or Chicago in the national article, but the local papers there are reporting immigration raids, as well.) And I suspect these raids were far bigger & more wide-ranging than the national press is reporting.

MSNBC - "Hundreds Nabbed in Immigration Raid."
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12393925/

Birmingham, AL - "City Part of National Immigration Riad."
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1145728050125570.xml&coll=2

Chicago, IL - "26 area arrests in national immigration raid." http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/immig20.html

Portland, OR - "North Portland Immigration Raid - Arrests Could Signal Start Of A National Crackdown"
http://www.koin.com/news.asp?RECORD_KEY%5Bnews%5D=ID&ID%5Bnews%5D=3544

(Here's the scariest part of that article - "Leigh Winchell, special agent in charge of ICE in the Northwest, says more crackdowns will happen in the coming weeks.")

San Antonio, TX - "San Antonio at center of historic immigration raid."
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=53649D09-0677-4B3D-B8C1-8A9BDAD64F40

Nashville, TN - "Immigration raid captures 96 in Tenn."
http://www.newschannel5.com/content/news/18761.asp

And it goes on & on. All of these raids occured on Wednesday, April 20.

[Greyskye]

12. Operation "ENDGAME"

Here is a link to what I believe is going on. The title of this document is:

ENDGAME
Office of Detention and Removal Strategic Plan, 2003-2012

Detention and Removal Stategy for a Secure Homeland

From the opening statement:

As the title implies, DRO provides the endgame to immigration enforcement and that is the removal of all removable aliens. This is also the essence of our mission statement and the "golden measure" of our success. We must endeavor to maintain the integrity of the immigration process and protect our homeland by ensuring that every alien who is ordered removed, and can be, departs the United States as quickly and effectively as practicable. We must strive for 100% removal rate.

Emphasis above is mine. 49 pages total.


http://www.ice.gov/doclib/pi/dro/endgame.pdf

[CoffeeCat]

15. Why are these fascists so preoccupied with...

...rounding people up and kicking them out?

Why doesn't our government tell these people that they have to leave?

After all, our borders were wide open. We did nothing but encourage immigrants to walk into our country. We also provided jobs for decades. The government did nothing.

I'm not saying that it's ok for someone to be here illegally. I believe people should go through the process. However, for decades we've made it easy to get her and nice and cozy once they are here. You can't simply--without warning--start rounding people up.

This feels like a hunt. It sickens me.

Now...with the flick of their wrists--they're rounding people up and detaining them--and supposedly deporting them? With no warning?

Remember...this is a cast of fools who tortures people, started a war based on lies, and does not care about the US soldiers and innocent Iraqis that continue to die.

[nashville_brook]

36. domination strategy? the whole population is compliant under threat

the corporatists don't care about immigration. they're just as happy having cheap labor. thing is, now it's so abundant -- there's immigrant-population 'to spare.' what do you do with this 'spare' stuff? can it be put to a larger use? looking at that document, the problem of immigration is being treated like a natural resource. creepy end date too.

[rman]

51. Fascists are not normal people

They have strong sociopathic tendencies.

To ask why they do this instead of telling illegals to leave is like asking an abuser why he beats his wife instead of talk about the problems, or to ask a rapist why he rapes a woman instead of asking her out.

[file83]

30. Well, like the "War on Drugs" it seems that "Endgame" is just another

waste of taxpayers money. They don't seal the borders and so what's the point of trying to remove all the illegal immigrants?

It's a scam - they are essentially playing a perpetual game of human movement and wasting everyones money doing it.

[rman]

52. ...and take peoples freedom and lives in the process.

[file83]

58. Yup. Waste money and lives and freedom, all in one fell swoop.

Gotta love that fascism.

[raccoon]

39. Thanks for that link. nt

[Marie26]

62. Scariest. link. ever.

Thanks so much for posting that. I think you're right on about that.

[htuttle]

14. I've been digging for news about that reported sweep in Madison

Nobody seems to have heard about it. I work at one of the taxi coops in town, and usually we hear about everything at some point. Nobody has heard anything.

Perhaps it *was* hoax after all? :shrug:

[oldlady]

18. the one thing that puzzles me is what did I see then?

La Movida is reporting it was a hoax. My alder says the MPD is meeting with Noble Wray right now to prepare for a press conference on this, and that they will likely say it was a hoax and didn't happen. But, then, why were there white unmarked vans at Crowne Plaza & Howard Johnson's when I went there, uniformed officers of some sort-- when people called & said they are at one place or another there were vans & people in uniforms, so I'm confused.

[htuttle]

20. That is confusing

I'll see if I can talk to some of the drivers later that were on the night shift last night. Maybe they saw something.

[oldlady]

28. media calling it a hoax now

Rumors of mass raids by immigration officials panicked the Madison Latino community Sunday, and frightened some workers off the job today and kept parents from sending children to school.

A spokesman for the Madison School District said absentee rates for Latino students at one school reached nearly 50 percent.

Madison Police said today they were unaware of any immigration arrests.

"We were surprised to hear about it, because we were not participating in anything," spokesman Mike Hanson said.
http://www.madison.com/bn/index.php?action=this&bn_id=0-81298

[Marie26]

33. Why would there be

a "hoax" during the same week when big immigration raids actually went on nation-wide? The police's statement doesn't mean a whole lot, since they wouldn't be the ones involved in the raid. If this did happen (I don't know), it would've been done by undercover INS officers.

[peacetalksforall]

25. Vigilantes supported by local, state or fed government? They have to

cover to avoid exposure of participation?

This may be an issue of mega and mini? A Howard Johnson in a single city is mini compared to a Tropicana type corporation? The corprations would have everything arranged to avoid raids no matter what level of government.

Another question is whether this is timely - it is retaliation for the marches?

[Marie26]

29. Many people

are wondering the same thing. This is certainly being done by Chertoff & the DHS (local police often aren't even aware of this). And the question is why they are choosing to do it now. A lot of these raids are being carried out in cities that recently held immigrant rallies.

[glitch]

31. Stirring the pot. Somethings up, hoax or real. nt

[iconoclastNYC]

32. My guess is it is an intimidation campaign

In response to the huge protests.

[skids]

35. It's a multi-objective approach

Any publicised INS activity at this juncture is designed to have a number of different effects:

1) Appease a few on fence-sitters on the right by showing the government "doing something."

2) Inflame the open borders faction to the point where they make fools of themselves in retaliation.

3) Achieve political retribution against unfriendly business owners.

4) Push the left-of-center fence-sitters towards support of a guest worker program by making them ponder the costs to human rights of a deportation campaign.

And yes, as you said, 5) dampen the willpower of the protestors

[iconoclastNYC]

37. Good post.

Could you explain #2?

[skids]

41. On every issue there are extremists on all sides...

A classic Rovian tactic is to find an extremist that is far outside the mainstream, give them a microphone, and then get your supporters and the fence-sitters to identify your political opponents with said extremists.

The majority of Americians don't want the borders thrown clear open. Now, there are a number of people some of whom do want that, and some of whom don't want that, who would all be upset by large INS sweeps. Care to hazard a guess as to which faction among those people will be the one that gets handed a microphone to express their displeasure?

[iconoclastNYC]

45. Thanks.

[rman]

44. Peculiar that police is now claiming it was a hoax

Most peculiar.

[Marie26]

46. I know. Why bother?

It never even made it into the mainstream press till they released that statement.

[rman]

47. It means it's important for them to cover it up

I think more of the same can be expected.

[Marie26]

48. I agree. nt

[rman]

42. Immigration Crackdown: 1,200 Undocumented Workers Detained Across U.S.

Democracy Now
Friday, April 21st, 2006
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/21/132239
(video, audio, transcript)

[rman]

56. First they came for the illegal immigrants...

[Patsy Stone]

59. Feds arrest 183 illegal immigrants in Fla.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14417819.htm

Associated Press

MIAMI - Federal immigration authorities arrested 183 fugitives and other illegal immigrants in Florida alone last week, the state's largest roundup in a single week, officials said Monday.

The arrests included people convicted of sex offenses, child abuse, cocaine trafficking and weapons violations. They were originally from 26 countries and most eventually will be deported.

"Anybody who is a fugitive from justice is a danger to the community," said Michael Rozos, the field director in Miami of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's "Operation Phoenix" effort to find and deport fugitive illegal immigrants.

"These operations have been going on for years, but they have become more focused," he said.

[Festivito]

61. Detroit suburb in the past two weeks, recall a friend saying.

From about two weeks ago. A friend told me that their place of work was raided.

I'll see if I cannot recall more details later.