I told an anti-choicer this today:

[dorktv]

"Anyway, unless you plan on getting up with us women forced to have babies we do not want for the 3 AM feeding, could you kindly stay out of our uteruses? Thank you."

Was I too harsh? :p

[Fridays Child]

1. Don't want them in my uterus even if they offer to take the 3 AM feeding.

Nope, you weren't too harsh.

[dorktv]

3. He then went on to tell me this:

I can understand that not everyone is ready to be a mother. There is this cool thing called adoption that does not require killing your baby but rather giving her to a loving couple that would like to raise her. Yes, that does entail continuing the pregnancy. Such a small price for not having your own child killed.

[Fridays Child]

4. It's always interesting to ask someone like him what his position is on...

...the death penalty or how he feels about the children in Iraq who have been slaughtered, as a result of Bush's invasion.

Another good one--especially, if he supports the South Dakota legislation--is to ask him if he would force his 11-year old daughter to give birth to the child of her rapist.

[dorktv]

5. I do not think he has kids...but I will ask him.

he also claims he is not wanting to be in my uterus but he has no problem telling what I can and cannot have in there.

[never_get_over_it]

55. Yep I just ask them

so tell me how do you feel about the Iraqi babies....usually shuts them up....

[PublicWrath]

6. Damn I get tired of the antichoice assumption that every child

put up for adoption is immediately adopted by loving, perfect parents. And what about these jerks hiring Indian women as surrogates instead of providing good homes for orphans? Why aren't they being lectured by antichoice people?

[Maat]

19. They could NEVER go through what the typical adoptive parent goes through.

In my adoptions class, there were no rightwing Christian zealots. Wonder why? Because many of my fundamentalist acquaintances want a child that is genetically related to them, and because they didn't want to go through at least a year of sheer heck during which you bond so much with your sweet child but have to wonder whether or not something will go wrong in the legal process. That intense bonding is necessary for the child's long-term mental health, but few are willing to go through the process. I prayed every day during that first year. I just don't know how else to express it - we DO need loving couples for the children in the county system - but there aren't enough of them (we need a loving parent or parents, period). And we need every one of those wonderful couples or singles who are willing to accept special needs kids. You don't know how many ignorant comments I endured from the fundamentalists I encountered (e.g. "You know where she came from."), and two of the worst were from people who worked for the Department (Social Services) right alongside me.

Sorry. End-of-rant.

[PublicWrath]

27. OMG People said to you

"You know where she came from"?!!! That makes me just furious, particularly from government employees. Thank you for sharing your experiences, I've always suspected that fundies were nowhere to be found when it comes to actually providing loving homes for orphans. I'm so happy that it all worked out for you, but this news about the ugly attitudes in fundies generally and, if I understand you correctly, from fundies working at Social Services, is about to set my hair on fire. I am deeply sorry you had to listen to crap like that. It makes me worry about the many ways fundies at Social Services could misuse their authority, if so inclined.

[Maat]

32. You did understand me, correctly.

The people that said it did work for social services, and they were fundamentalist Christians (no offense intended to my kind-hearted progressively-minded Christian friends).

And thank you very much for the understanding and supportive words.

[Kerrytravelers]

50. My fundy fruitcake mother-in-law told me she had a "christian" friend

who adopted two sisters about 6 and 8 years old. One was very difficult and SHE GAVE HER BACK TO THE ORPHANAGE!

To that, I responded: My, how Christian.

She tried to defend her friend. I'm a public school teacher. That particular year I had 10 (yes 10) drug babies in my 3rd grade classroom. I said if I can get 10 difficult drug babies to do what I want, there is no excuse for a stay at home "mother" to not be able to love a 6 year old child. Some people really should not be allow near children. Nice company you keep three at your church.

My MIL finally shut the fuck up. It was a glorious moment.

[blogslut]

8. A small price?

Go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ICD-9_codes_630-676:_Complications_of_pregnancy,_childbirth,_and_the_puerperium

Print out that list of complications associated with pregnancy and then ask him if he still considers it a small price.

[dorktv]

24. I posted it...doubt he will care.

[XanaDUer]

13. I love the way some people, anti-choice men in particular

act like pregnancy and birth are about on the level as having your hair permed.

[dorktv]

25. oh but for a man it is!

after all, he never has to deal with all the problems associated with childbearing.

And he never gets to enjoy the perks of being with child. Which there are many otherwise why would we women continue to have children?

[Coexist]

15. Many adoptive parents are loving people, but my worst nightmare

would be this:

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGBQJ2D4G5E.html

I would probably live the rest of my life wondering if the happy couple I handed my baby over to "changed" after a couple of years.

[BlueStorm]

45. My mother argues with me about this...

I am pro-choice to the core, a woman's body is not to be legislated.

My mother is against abortions except in medical cases., she had one a long time ago. She says if a woman gets pregnant and doesn't want the baby, she should give it up for adoption as that there are many who want a child.

I countered that some adoptive parents can be abusive and that there are many that just adopt for the welfare checks and perks of the government and don't care about the child at all. So why would a woman with an unintentional pregrenancy want to deal with that stress?

Plus if abortion became illegal, what would happen to all of the unwanted children?

Not everybody is cut out to be a parent.

Blue

[Maat]

18. Ummm ... where does he get this "loving couple" idea?

I was in Social Services for years, and his statement does not jive with reality - it might be more likely for an blonde-haired, blue-eyed infant that was RELINQUISHED (and the relinquishment having the signatures of both biological parents), and IF the couple in question is willing to jump through the legal hoops, pay the costs, and wait through the appeals period.

Oh ... don't get this adoptive parent started (I'm both a retired social worker AND an adoptive parent) ... the System has enough trouble with the adoptions now - imagine if they successfully eliminated birth control and DNC procedures! The System would collapse!

I've had a very successful experience, but I am well-aware of what some of my friends have had to go through.

I wish pro-fetus idiots like this would think before they speak.

[dorktv]

23. I almost wasted the time to look up the adoption stats but frankly

why bother? He is not worth the time.

Kudos on you for adopting. My brother tried but him and his wife could not afford to do that...which is a shame because he is one of the best fathers a little kid could wish for.

[Maat]

34. No, it's not worth your time.

If one adopts, like I did, through the County, one is paid monthly foster care money, and then one pays a one-time fee (around $500). So, you are compensated for expenses you probably would have incurred anyway for about a year, and then you pay a one-time fee, so, in a way, you might come out ahead (theoretically, although having/being blessed with a kid is always an expensive proposition - HeeHee). Anyway, I wish that your brother and his wife would look into a county adoption; perhaps one day they will.

Thanks for thinking about this. It just really gets me riled when they say, 'Adoption not abortion,' having absolutely NO idea what they are talking about.

[dorktv]

42. Wow, that is great on county adoption, I am going to mention

that to him next time we talk!

[Maat]

47. Yes, people should at least check it out -

you put yourself on a list, and then go to orientation class; they fill you in there.

[dorktv]

51. sounds easy. The only problem I could see is Dennis is sick.

it is a long term illness he has had since he was a child, and I think that might have been why it was so expensive originally.

[Maat]

54. Sending positive energy his way,

so that it will all work out!

[cushla_machree]

49. adoption is not an alternative to unwanted pregnancy

it is an alternative to parenting.

No way would i go 9 months pregnant to give it up to a stranger. For me, it is about controlling when and how i have children.

[LittleClarkie]

2. I should do a poll

How many pro-life pro-choicers abound.

This is me. Given the choice, I would have the rugrat. But I'll be damned if I'll tell another woman what to do with her body.

[SanJoseGamecock]

7. Coming from the South and Raised Fundamentalists..

..this has always been a hard issue for me to swallow. I am not a fundamentalist by the way, I was forced to church like every other good little southerner. What really ticks me off is the religious right trying to get hold of all aspects of our sexual life because they cannot seem to see the beauty in all of it. Maybe, they just need to get laid more. I don't know!! I wish that one day there would be no need for abortion due to advances in health sciences. Hopefully we can get really close by the end of this decade. But all of these health technologies have to be available to everybody, period.

[Hissyspit]

9. Welcome to DU!

:patriot:

:toast:

[Maat]

35. You really have made some good points, here.

Welcome to DU!

[bigwillq]

48. Hello!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[poverlay]

10. I was up for every 1, 3, and 5 am feeding. Sometimes my wife and I

took turns. I am a stay at home dad and have been the primary caregiver for both of my children since birth. I adore them. I would do anything for them.

Regardless the choice was my wife's ... NO ONE else's. Period. I will fight anyone who says differently to the death. Her free choice equals my, and your, and everyone's free choice. Nothing complicated about it. Emotional, sure, complicated, NO.

[dorktv]

20. I want a husband who will be a stay at home dad. I know I can be

a good mom but frankly I cannot handle even the thought of doing it full time.

[poverlay]

38. You might feel differently when you have your own. Other kids annoy

me no end, but I totally enjoy raising mine. Of course you should stick to your guns though~ Don't ever let anyone put you in a role(Especially one so important) that you don't feel comfortable in.

Luck

[dorktv]

41. Thanks. :)

I also would feel better if I was the breadwinner. That way I know that my kids are safe even if something (God forbid) happened to my spouse or partner.

[tsuki]

11. You were not harsh enough.

1) Would he feel the same about all non-whites (forgive me for assuming he's white, but that who I see touting anti-choice.)

2) What's he done to help women and children abandoned by dead beat partners? Answer: Nothing. Can't get all self righteous and puffy about that, can he?

3) Would he pay taxes to support all those children that he wants born? No, if they starve or die for lack of medical care, it's GAWD's Will.

Then, I usually end up with "I'm glad you found Jesus, but I wish He'd find you." By that time, they've usually walked off."

[annabanana]

16. I'm glad you found Jesus, but I wish He'd find you

very good!

[dorktv]

21. I actually do not know that much about this person...he is

a poster on the important AZ blog and I try to avoid getting into these discussions since I just get annoyed.

But today I told him to go read up on why women chose abortions and to ask the people he thinks should tell the world why they support choice rather then me.

[Maat]

36. AND ... in keeping with what you are saying ...

here is a person who voted for Boooosh, and the Chimperor was the one that cut funding for pre-natal care programs, foster care parenting, a special program we had to help people adopt who weren't made out of money, and he cut money for drug programs. Moreover, the Chimperor cut funding that had been used to pay for 'million dollar babies,' so named because they were born to opiate and meth addicts, and had to be detoxed at birth. The taxpayer literally paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for some infants' care.

Grrrr ... o.k. this retired social worker will calm down now. But there is nothing more irritating than hearing, 'Adoption not abortion,' from a fundamentalist who voted for an idiot that cut funding for vital programs.

[dorktv]

40. Hahaha, after we all started pointing out the lack of funding for

the babies who are born and my demand he actually find out why women make the choices they do, he stopped posting.

[Maat]

46. HeeHee (n/t).

[NMMNG]

12. Not bad

But I'd tell him/her:

"Unless you plan on carrying to term any fetus I may become impregnated with, then raising it as your own you need to shut up about what I can do with my body. For the only way I'll ever get pregnant is through rape, and I have no intentions of carrying the fetus of a rapist regardless of what emotionally wrought arguments you drum up."

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. I'd say you were inaccurately harsh.

I don't think that there's any call not to be as harsh or harsher towards pro-lifers, but my (limited) experience is that many fathers, and certainly most fathers worth their salt, do try and take a lot of the getting-up necessitated by new-born babies upon themselves (although obviously not the feeding), so other equally harsh comments might have been better.

[Rabrrrrrr]

52. She never said anything about men not helping out.

Not sure what post you are responding to, but it certainly isn't anything in this thread.

She merely said that unless that one guy was willing to get up in the middle of the night and take care of the babies forced to be born, he should get out of those women's utereses.

How you could turn that into something that is "harsh" against all men, I'll never figure out.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

53. That's exactly what I meant.

I'm saying that many men *are* willing to get up in the middle of the night and take care of babies. I'm sorry if I didn't make that sufficiently clear.

[Minnesota Libra]

17. You were right on!! Good one!! What was the response?? nt

[dorktv]

22. Oh he started in on how he has no interest in my uterus...blah blah

blah

http://rumromanismrebellion.blogspot.com/2006/04/i-know-i-know-hes-just-pri_114588733201300602.htmll

[Jade Fox]

26. Not harsh enough....

You should have reminded him that, with accurate DNA testing, he could soon be supporting an unwanted child for the next 18 years.

[dorktv]

28. yes but who would want to have sex with him?

[area51]

29. "Was I too harsh?"

No, I don't think so. And despite what he said, I think they all are interested in women's uteruses, the pervs.

[dorktv]

30. Envious I think...they want the chance to give life.

[AllieB]

31. They should also support them until they're out of college

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. I'd Prefer One's Choice To Have An Abortion Was For More Than

just not wanting to wake up for the 3am feeding, but respect the fact that they can be done for any reason.

[REP]

39. That's Exactly Literally What She Meant

I'm glad that didn't escape you. Others might have thought it was shorthand for there being more to having a baby than Kodak moments, but no, you got right to the meat of it. I salute you.

[dorktv]

44. well basically I was saying: He is not dealing with the all of the

consequences when he tells us to keep or put our baby up for adoption. In other words, my body, my life, my choice.

[proud patriot]

37. beautiful

:-)

[DawgHouse]

43. good for you for speaking up!