Is Bush as stupid as he appears or is he trying to appeal to stupid people

[mtnsnake]

I don't know. When this jerkoff speaks, he stutters, he stammers, he puts accents on the wrong words of sentences, his gestures don't coincide with what he's saying, he speaks like he's impaired, and he appears so friggin dumb that it's absolutely mind-boggling how anyone, let alone a US President, could be that STUPID. Presidents aside, Bush comes off as stupid even if he's compared to other stupid people.

A few people here have said that they don't think he's that stupid and that it's all, or partially, an act. I have to disagree. I don't believe that anyone can act as stupid...as well as he does...without actually being that stupid. I mean, when it comes to acting stupid, this guy never fucks up. He's a natural. If he's not really stupid, then he's a better actor than Reagan was, maybe even a genius in his own right. Personally, I have to believe he's simply stupid, period. What do you think?

[bryant69]

1. I don't think he's that stupid, but he has stupid traits

I think that a certain part of his appeal to peopel isn't that he's dumb like them. But that like him, they feel belittled and resentful of societies "elites." When they see Democrats or the Media making fun of him, they think "yeah, I identify with that. Those eggheads think I'm dumb too. We'll show them what some "dummies" can do, eh Mr. President?"

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[jokerman93]

22. He's inarticulate - which is different

The whole dumb rube cowboy thing is an obviously cultivated put-on though.

Is he stupid? Well, the whole Iraq war idea was pretty stupid. Stealing elections is pretty stupid. Torturing enemy combatants is pretty stupid. Lying about intelligence is pretty stupid. Sucking up to the christo-fascists is pretty stupid. Pissing off the whole world is definitely pretty stupid...

It was stupid to think all these outrages wouldn't have any consequences, or that undesired consequences can be managed with money and brute force. Seems to me, that Bush has had an aweful lot of help though - from power hungry people who've been using him for access to his daddy's roladex.

There's a general stupidity all over America these days. Bush, Rove et al understand that, encourage it, and flatter the hell out of it.

And in the long run, I think that will prove to be a stupid strategery.

:silly:
J

[lutefisk]

2. He's a stupid man, who thinks he's smart, trying to act stupid

He's patronizing and condescending to people, who are almost all smarter and more mentally stable than he is. A very obnoxious combination of traits.

[mtnsnake]

23. "He's a stupid man, who thinks he's smart"

I never thought of that. Good one!

[liberal N proud]

3. A repuke told me one time that he isn't as stupid as he looks

I thought it was a rather open ended comment and replied with, he looks as stupid as a rock.

[xultar]

6. ...

:rofl: That is some funny shit!!!

[xultar]

4. Other, I think he is stoopid and he is appealing to his people.

So it is both.

[femmocrat]

5. I think there could be a medical reason....

I have read that he was once coherent (when he ran for Governor) but has declined in recent years. He is a national embarrassment.

[raccoon]

30. There were some posts about that on another thread about

a week ago. Sorry, I can't remember the thread title or anything.
But someone said that probably when he is out of office, it will be revealed that he's been diagnosed with something (for example, early onset Alzheimer's) which he probably had for a long time.

It became public in 1994 that Raygun had Alzheimer's. Wonder how long before that he had it?

ANyway, I agree, there's something medically wrong with him. (Other than stupidity and a mean streak.)

[TAPat]

Here comes Forrest Gump...

Stupid is as stupid does. :)

[lavenderdiva]

7. I voted 'Other'...

my answer would be 'Both', if that were an option. Yes, * is as stupid as he appears, and Yes, he is trying to appeal to stupid people (and often does).

[anarch]

8. I believe he is actually even more stupid than he appears to be

Also, Cheney is twice as evil as Satan.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

9. If he hadn't had that silver spoon . . .

. . . honest-to-god, people, he'd be doing time for cocaine. Or just working at the 7-11, and happy to have the job. Total simpleton . . . with a mean streak a mile long.

This is the low spot of the Republic's history, and you 'n me get to fight the pinhead and the fascists that used him as a puppet. We can make the difference . . . we can all be heroes like Conyers and Helen and the Illinois legislators. DU rocks!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. I think he's stupid AND he has a mean streak.

In the reverse, some people mistaken kindness for gullibility. If someone is kind or nice, sometimes people mistaken that for a signal that they can be exploited. In Bush's case, it's the other way around. He's mean AND stupid. That's what makes him dangerous.

[KoKo]

31. Stupid with Mean Streak....and a creation of the Repug/NeoCon Ad Agency

He's been "propped up" and marketed to be something he isn't. But there's an cruel, manipulative side to him...where he can "act the part" or "give the speech" in various levels of Texas Twang and he gets delight out of how he cons people. The smirk is always the giveaway.

I think he's aware of what he is...but delights in it...and that's very frightening.

[William769]

11. Other.

He is really stupid, but people around him are not. Not only is he stupid, he is a fanatic. Thats a dangerous combination!

[saltpoint]

12. I think there's no There there, that he's vacuous. That he doesn't

know what he doesn't know.

His Daddy was high-IQ and manipulative and Brother Jeb is more sure-footed and savvy.

Bush is a little like Hud, in the Paul Newman role. Incorrigible, defiant, petulant and pretty empty. Self-centered and soulless.

I can hardly bear to listen to him butcher English the way he does. It's painful to hear.

[mtnsnake]

36. I don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good!

:wtf:

..... :evilgrin:

[lpbk2713]

37. It kinda like means

Dumbya was adopted and nobody ever told him.

[maxsolomon]

13. stupid is the wrong word

ignorant
incurious
narcissistic
sociopathic
self satisfied
spoiled
smug
smarmy

but

cunning

the man was raised by wolves named george & barbara; all he understands is the machinations of power. he's crippled inside. there isn't a shred of empathy in his entire body.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

16. "all he understands is the machinations of power."

Well said.

[hlthe2b]

14. Lots of problems: learning deficits that went untreated rendering

him poorly able to read and comprehend; a mind that has never been "exercised" in terms of using it to learn and instead, damaged by years of drugs and alcohol. Add to this a narcissistic personality (leaning towards being a sociopath, IMO) given his inability to feel/empathize for others. All together, he can not ad lib, especially on anything he is not interested in (which is a narrow list, in and of itself). Nor can he "fake it," because that requires ability to relate to others, to empathize with others--thus the strange lapses into joking at inappropriate times, or strangely out of place gestering. He is lazy intellectually and his narcissism combine to limit his ability to learn. A lifetime of others spoon-feeding, enabling, and "picking up after" him--have left him with little ability (or inclination) to adjust or change.

I agree with those who think it is more complicated than his being stupid, (though I remember being frustrated when Bill Clinton, Carville,and others first put this premise forward, warning against underestimating him-- without the explanation that seems so clear now). Bush is unaware, incurious, and lazy intellectually--because he CAN be. He has no need, routinely, to try to be articulate or develop an understanding of issues and subjects for which he has no interest. He gets by with it by projecting that "folksy" self-deprecation that masks his real insecurities over his gaffes. However, a stupid man, would not( by contrast), be able to react with such vitriole and devious manipulation against his real and perceived enemies. It is on these latter occasions,that he shows he is not unintelligent and can harnass all his intellectual and communication resources to be articulate for a time.

Anger, revenge, power-struggles motivate him to harnass those abilities. He does so so rarely, it is hard to reconcile the two sides of Bush* and easy to perceive him only as the stumbling, bumbling figure, he so often projects. Years of alcohol abuse and aging, have made it hard for him to pull out the other side very often. It was more apparent when he was his father's "enforcer" and later when he ran for Governor of Texas (find the archives of some of his debates in that race--they are mind boggling by contrast to the figure we see today).

Read Dr. Justin Frank's book (BUSH ON THE COUCH) AND Mark Crispin Miller's (Bush Dyslexicon). BOth offer tremendous insight into why Bush acts and talks the way he does.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

18. Well said.

Dr. Frank's book sheds a whole lot of light on his twisted mind. Haven't read the other one.

[mtnsnake]

21. Now THAT'S a detailed analysis!

I especially like your first paragraph description of him.

:toast:

[hlthe2b]

25. I have been so determined to try to understand how...

we could have someone like Bush* in the WH and how to reconcile the extreme differing perceptions of him, that I have thought about it--all too much, I suppose.

Again, Frank and Miller's books have been revealing...

[izzie]

15. I do not think he is stupid just a one track man guy

Lots of people with money think they are smart. Put your self in WH and it really messes up the ego. So we end up with an average man who is rich, powerful and is sure he is right. And he never had to work very hard for any of it. No wonder we are all in trouble. Most of us would not let this guy teach a first grade class let alone think he is some type elite.

[lpbk2713]

17. He is genuinely stupid.

There are numerous websites that chronicle nothing but his constant acts, thoughts, and deeds of a genuine stupid nature.


He couldn't make it on his own. He owes a lot to his handlers who seem to burn out frequently from the overload.

[mtnsnake]

24. I think so, too

"Genuinely" is a good word.

[Ganja Ninja]

19. He's a stupid person, supported by stupid people to ...

do stupid things and a bunch greedy treason pricks are taking advantage of the situation.

[Inland]

20. Molly Ivins said, and I paraphrase

Bush's problem isn't that he's stupid. It's that he thinks everyone else is. So he gives into the temptation to fool all of the people all of the time, that show is as good as go, that he really needn't be bothered listening to anybody, etc.

[porphyrian]

26. Yes. - n/t

[Javaman]

27. Yes, he* is actually that stupid.

Living in Austin and watching him* as gov*, I can personally attest to the fact that, yes, he* is that stupid.

[dchill]

28. Bush is NOT as stupid as he acts...

He's much, much more stupider. He's takes the stupider he already possesses and builds on it with a good-ole-boy Tejas drawl and the 3 X 5 stupider cards provided by his "inner circle" of neocon, ultra-conservative, right-wing fundagelical advisors. This allows him to achieve a level of stupider never seen before - other than in snake-charming churches and Guinness record books.

Plus, he's on the prescription drugs, and probably drinking a lot, to boot. He's not acting, he is method acting. He lives the role, and still gets it wrong.

*edit to add: Oh yeah, Other.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. Maybe if he stopped being so damned arrogant and condescending

he could actually concentrate on what he is saying. Maybe then he wouldn't make so many mistakes when speaking in public. I don't know. I think half the time, he just doesn't give a crap about what he's saying. The rest of the time, he's trying to defend his lies/actions/policies.

[Justice Is Comin]

32. Everything about him,

from his walk to his floating arms to his mentally retarded statements screams moron.

[Kansas Wyatt]

33. Bush doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Bush also does not have a clue about the struggles, hardships, and destruction average Americans are suffering, due to his oppressive policies and corruption. Nor, does he even care at all.

George W. Bush just cannot grasp the concept that average Americans do not have Family Empires to fall back on for free financial resources or to get bail outs from Daddy's rich buddies.

Just look at his stupid Health Savings Accounts, which suggest that poor people (don't even have enough money to pay living expenses) can put their money into a health savings account. Hello, Earth to the Chimp on Pluto?

George W. Bush is oblivious to how average Americans struggle just to get by (which has gotten a lot worse under his regime), and he lacks the ability to even comprehend the struggle itself.

[Virginia Dare]

34. I'm not so much worried about his ignorance...

as I am about his mental condition. There is obviously something very wrong with this man, and it frightens me that the establishment continues to enable him.

[Peace Patriot]

35. Bush is a mean-spirited, stupid man, who has no feeling for the suffering

and deaths of others, and maybe even delights in it, but that is not the end of the story of who he is. The most important part is how such a person became President of the United States for two terms and remains unaccountable to the American people for his attitudes, his stupidity and his actions.

The poll question asks: "Is Bush as stupid as he appears or is he trying to appeal to stupid people?" I think the second part of the question--the "or" part--is wrongly focused. It presumes that he IS trying to appeal to SOMEONE. I don't think he has it in him to want to "appeal to" ANYONE. That is his main flaw and lack as a human being. It's like a black hole inside of him. He has no connectedness to other people--even to his "base", whether it's stupid people on the bottom rungs of American life, or the multi-billionaire corporate predators whom he actually identified as his "base" in his infamous remarks to the Have's (at that fatcat dinner that Michael Moore exposed in "F-9/11"). He may hate the Have's more than he hates the stupid Have-not's who support him.* In neither case does he care what people think of him. And that is the puzzle. How can a politician--and a President no less--NOT CARE what people think? It's very weird and unnatural. A politician, theoretically anyway, is the REPRESENTATIVE of other people. A politician HAS to care what people think, to some extent--he has to, at the very least, care what his major funders think, and have some minimal care about public opinion in general. Bush is unique in this respect. He seems disconnected from everyone, and extremely isolated. And he is further unique--as a politician--is his inability to even PROJECT that he cares. He is not even a good actor.

And when you eliminate those extremes--the fatcats and the dumb poor, which together form a small group--and you consider how Bush strikes MOST Americans--as an advocate for the rich, as a privileged, pampered son of the rich, and as stupid, incompetent and uncaring--the puzzle of this mean-spirited, stupid man's rise to power becomes even greater.

Which brings me to the matter of how such a person could be President of the United States. I think that, a) Bush's two "elections" were wholly manipulated and stolen, in various ways, the most recent one quite obviously by Bushite corporations having gained control of the election system, with the new electronic voting machines run on "trade secret," proprietary software with virtually no audit/recount controls (the result of the $4 billion dollar electronic voting boondoggle pushed through the Anthrax Congress by Tom Delay and Bob Ney); and b) Bush is largely oblivious to how he achieved power AND to how power is exercised (how things work in the real world)--to him, it is like Daddy's friends covering for him again--he is a mean-spirited, stupid little man whom OTHERS have pushed forward and placed in the White House, and whom others control, perhaps in very direct ways, through drugs and psychological conditioning, and/or through fear and blackmail. As to the control mechanisms, he is LED TO BELIEVE that he is popular, and that he is a "king" of sorts (all powerful), when in fact he has very little real power, as a person or as President. (When he makes statements like, "I am the decider," he is revealing the reality of his situation, that he is NOT; he "decides" nothing; he is the tool of others, who are the actual "deciders" of his regime and who feed him his public lines and strictly manage his appearances.)

Who ARE the puppetmasters of this mean-spirited, stupid man? Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld spring to mind, of course (which is why it is laughable to think of Bush "dumping" either one, for political survival. Bush can't even "dump" Karl Rove, who is about to be indicted.) They are the most visible of the puppetmasters. I think there is a cabal of seeable and unseeable powers behind this Dauphin-throne, likely comprised of Carlyle Group multi-billionaires and multi-billionaire nutballs like Howard Ahmanson (who was the initial funder of ES&S, one of the two Bushite corporations that now control the tabulation of the entire nation's votes--Ahmanson is a rightwing 'christian' extremist). There are many colluders--representing a cabal of interests (corporate deregulation; tax breaks for the rich; pro-Israel rightwingers; powermongering religionists; military-industrial complex war profiteers, war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and factions of the Democratic Party leadership)--which has enabled this fascist coup to take place. But I think it's rather a small cabal that actually runs Bush.

How can such a mean-spirited, stupid man be President? Because, a) he is easy to control (directly or through fear/blackmail); and b) that's what this cabal thinks of US, the American people--Bush is the most supreme insult they could fling in our faces.

------

*(Note re Bush hating the Have's: Bush has no understanding of how things work. He is stupid and unskilled. He couldn't run a bank, for instance, or even a modest business. He couldn't have run Enron! He is not even a skilled thief. He has no practical knowledge or talent. He can barely keep control of a bicycle. And he envies and hates those who can. He actually hates the positive aspects of business--free/fair trade (truly free, I mean), creative ideas, scientific inventiveness, skilled organization, professionalism, competence--and, to the extent that the Have's of our society represent those qualities (good old fashioned American enterprise), he loathes them. Many of them are parasites, of course. And that is what Bush is--a parasite. But he doesn't even seem to identify with the parasitic class. He doesn't sail. He doesn't ski. He doesn't patronize the arts. He doesn't have preppy pals. He doesn't seem to enjoy his riches. He likely has no understanding of his own investments. He is a very, very limited human being, who has been puffed up with delusions of grandeur by others. And all this, to me, implies deep hatred and loathing of the members of his own class who DO enjoy being rich, and especially of those among them who have skills, whether at business or some other endeavor. In general, his regime has fostered a suicidal kind of greed that can only do immense harm to American business in the long run. An $8 trillion deficit, and the enmity of the entire world, are NOT good for business. They may bring huge short term profits to the very rich and to a small group of very powerful global corporate predators (the cabal that runs Bush), but they are very bad for everybody else, which may be why a revolt is brewing outside that circle.)

------------------------------------------------------

We have to start somewhere, and restoring election transparency--and our right to vote--is Priority #1. Without our sovereignty as a people--which we exercise through the power of the vote--we are helpless to enact ANY reform. And we MUST get this power back, while there is still a chance to do so.

SOME RESOURCES FOR AMERICAN REVOLUTION II:

Hopeful signs - latest news:

California voters sue the state over Diebold:
www.VoterAction.org is suing the state of California and 18 Calif county registrars on behalf of 25 California voter/plaintiffs, on the illegal Diebold "certification" by Schwarzenegger appointee Bruce McPherson.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2180496

Maryland rejects Diebold:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x418263

Florida - anti-trust accusations against Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia, re: heroic Florida election official Ion Sancho:
(FLA AG subpoenas the companies)
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/legalissues/story/0,10801,110192,00.html
http://www.tbo.com/news/politics/MGBKSY8W8LE.html
(info & discussion)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2183630

Utah county clerk fights back!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x419226

-----

More resources for American Revolution II:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.UScountvotes.org (statistical monitoring of '06 and '08 elections--they need donations)

(Activist sites with links to state activist groups or info)
www.votetrustusa.org (news of this great movement from around the country)
www.votersunited.org (good general info, and state links)
www.verifiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)

www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.bradblog.com (also great, and devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)* :patriot: :applause: :patriot:
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake, including state's rights over election systems)
Provisions of the PA lawsuit:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423739

The Voter Confidence Resolution
http://tinyurl.com/rlnr2 (“We Do Not Consent”)
http://guvwurld.blogspot.com (GuvWurld blog main page)
http://tinyurl.com/amryg (Voter Confidence Resolution

www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.johnbonifaz.com (running for Massachusetts Sec of State on strong election reform and antiwar platform)

*Some tributes to TruthIsAll, who is very ill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417007
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417231
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x675477

Congressional bills:

Russ Holt's HR 550 requires a real paper ballot, bans secret software in "voting machines", and has more than 170 co-sponsors, but the audit required is too weak, it promotes electronic voting and centralized power, and the secret software might be permitted to continue in the central tabulators (the bill is not clear). To sign the HR 550 petition: http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
At lot of discussion at DU of the loopholes/pitfalls in HR 550:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x422926
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x421136
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=422967&mesg_id=422967
(Note: Senate Bill-SB 330 and House-HR704 simply require a "voter verified paper audit trail" (VVPAT), which may be best for the moment.)


Also of interest:

Michael Collins (Autorank)'s searing election reform article for New Zealand's Scoop.com
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x971363

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy! Title: "Poll Shock" 11/24/05)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col321.htm

Bob Koehler's latest: "Trust us: Take this box and stuff it" (3/16/06)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col337.htm
More Koehler:
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk


Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

------------------------------------------------

Throw Diebold, ES&S and ALL election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

-----------

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it." --Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence

[Generator]

38. I used to hink he was practically innocent

he was so dumb. But the jokes on ME! No, he's not eloquent. Clinton, Kerry, for all their faults are probably on the train to brilliant. Bush is one thing he protrays himself as-average to below average intellect. He's never been forced to do better. One thing that was weird was I recently saw a little clip of him from 2000 and he sounded MUCH more coherent. I don't know what's happened. He didn't look like a madman and a buffoon then, at least. He's gone way downhill-maybe the chip Cheney had installed is wearing out. Anyway-the joke is on me because do you all remember his pretending as a "great joke on himself" that he was looking for the WMD at that corospondent's dinner in 2003? WELL the asshole plays very well dumb with the facts. As we have learned pretty damn well as a fact in the last year-hell since 60 minutes on Sunday-he freaking knew their weren't any WMD. HE's a fat liar. And to lie-it takes some cunning. He's not that dumb. And he's been behind Valerie Plame/Joe Wilson from day one. Playing dumb is sure working to his advantage. He can blame it all on Cheney.

[tabasco]

39. It's hard work lookin' prezinential.

He probably is stupider than he appears.

[durrrty libby]

40. This thread is priceless.

Y’all made me laugh so much.

It’s like a good dose of needed therapy. A must save.