The Democratic nominee in 2008 must pass the white men in Mississippi test

[bluestateguy]

I'm talking about a candidate who can go deep into the heart of the reddest Red county in Mississippi and campaign for the state's electoral votes. Such a candidate must present himself as someone who will be taken seriously by white men in Mississippi. If the state can't be carried, then at the very least Republicans should be given a scare down there and be made to earn those electoral votes through campaigning.

I do not believe that Hillary Clinton passes that test. Russ Feingold is slightly less likely to fail that test, but he is a longshot too, much as I like him. I think Clark or Warner can pass the white men in Mississippi test.

[politicasista]

1. We need to map out a strategy for 06, then worry about 08 n/t

[racaulk]

8. I do agree with you, but...

I see so many "What about 2008?" threads here on DU that have a reply just like yours.

The elections this November should be our #1 priority, there is no question about that. There is entirely too much at stake for the Republicans to continue controlling one or both houses of Congress. But that does not mean that the elections in 2008, or specifically the Presidential election of that year, are not important and should not be discussed. There are obviously many people here (including myself and probably the others that replied to the OP) that are interested in that discussion.

Perhaps there could be a 2008 elections forum where that discussion would be encouraged and not squelched by those that would say "Don't worry about the future, worry about the immediate future." I think such a response is short-sighted at best, knee-jerk at worst.

I fail to see how a discussion about the 2008 elections detracts at all from the discussion about the 2006 elections.

[politicasista]

27. If we don't emphazine election reform and voting machines,

then there won't be a 2008. People can dream about perfect candidates all they won't but that's the cold hard truth. It won't matter who the candidate is or if he/she is from the north, south, east, or west.

[WilliamPitt]

2. You're talking about Warner

[FrenchieCat]

30. He mentioned Warner.......and Wes Clark......

and If we're in a time of War.....by that election....

well you know what I'm saying--no doubt.

[Awsi Dooger]

33. Right, Warner unquestionably fits best

And I think the summation is excellent. Everything is margin for error, not trying to squueze 270 electoral votes out of 16 or 17 states.

Besides, and I'll never understand this, what is the point of 85 consecutive trips each to Ohio and Florida and Pennsylvania? Yes, those are the vital states but you can't tell me the saturation aspect pays highest dividend. Let's take trips to Mississippi and Nebraska and even damn Utah during the campaign. It would generate publicity and intrigue and not all of it bad. Of course, it would have to be a legit nominee to pull it off, who didn't look and sound ridiculous campaigning in those states, but someone who fit the white men in Mississippi criteria.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Warner Unquestionably fits best?

I would question that.

They put McCain up against Warner... Play a couple of their fave Osama tapes or one of the others in the secret tape library....and poof!--there goes your unquestioned answer!

[Awsi Dooger]

39. You can live in fear of that

I'm willing to campaign in offbeat states because positive and different works. If we spend the entire fall campaign letting them form the debate and petrified of the Swift Boating, then we essentially forfeit.

Warner has called the 17 state strategy a "triple bank shot" gasp. He gets it. I haven't heard big picture clarity like that from anyone else.

[FrenchieCat]

46. I don't live in Fear.....I live in reality....but others do live in Fear,

and I'm not foolish enough to ignore the fact.

Strategizing without taking into consideration all the scenarios is never good strategy. Gotto have plan A, B, C and so forth.

General election strategy means fighting many fronts....

Nextel millionaire turned one term Governor that moved to the South as a grown man and was very successful in Virginia may be good......but then again, it does depend on the times as they are....and not the times as what we wish them to be.

Warner in 1992 might have been a good thing. Warner in 2008...I don't know if I'm gonna be buying that he's the "perfect fit". :hi:

[Gloria]

44. Warner didn't do too well last week on Franken's show....

He was all over the place and ended up sounding way too DLC....Franken was aghast when Warner said he didn't believe in a single payer health system and that it should be "privatized"--as if it isn't already privatized.
He sounded unprepared...and they avoided the subject of Iraq entirely.

[AndyTiedye]

74. It Doesn't Matter How Many Trips To Ohio or Florida the Candidate Makes…

…if the votes just get STOLEN anyway.





I think the most likely place to pick up a few more electoral votes is the SouthWEST.

They some red states that still appear to have real elections.

[rwenos]

3. You're Making Far Too Much Sense

No one will listen to you. The idea of a Democratic candidate carrying a few Bible Belt states is anathema to the idealistic left. I love 'em, but I'd rather elect a Dem president than conform to their tests of "ideological purity."

I want to know more about Mark Warner.

[DanCa]

4. Wes Clark can go to head to head with Mccain and Rudy.

I love Russ, all of our candidates as a matter of fact, but I am partial to Clark.
Why because I really want a win so that the Democrats can put people on the Supreme Court for a change.

[babylonsister]

5. Warner is a boring guy imo. He also doesn't have any

history or hutzpah. He's got nada. Clark, I don't know. He's charming.

[Zynx]

6. Warner has a compelling personal story. A self-made man.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Ditto.....Wes Clark!

Widowed mom raised him on a Bank Teller's salary.

Everything he got, he earned (except for the 4 bullets)--
and he did it while serving our country!

That's what John Kennedy meant when he said....ask not what your country can do for you.....ask what you can do for your country! :patriot:

But he can also go the International track.......and fit right in! Speaking 3 additional language (self taught) does help on that front!

[babylonsister]

54. He still seems boring to me, kind of like Bayh.

Neither of them want to rock the boat when the boat is begging to be rocked.

[FrenchieCat]

16. I saw Wes Clark yesterday.....

And he sure in the hell is charming, and very humble.

A woman who sat next to me at the breakfast (Clark was in Oakland raising funds for a congressional candidate running to unseat a (R) Incumbent in California's 11th district)who was there to support the candidate....and wasn't very familiar with Wes Clark said to me..."that's a good looking man.....sharp and fresh. He's got an aura that I don't see too often."

I responded..."you're damn right, he does!"

[justice1]

7. Keep reminding everyone that there are 50 states.

Some strategists seem to think there are only "blue" states, and "swing" states.

[DanCa]

11. What were running in another state besides Ohio ? :D

JK :hug:

[LittleClarkie]

10. White men in Mississippi

can kiss my grits.

[FrenchieCat]

12. They are kicking our grits right now....and kicking their own......

After 8 years of George Bush, we definitely need "a plan"....and appealing all over has got to be part of it, I would pray!

[LittleClarkie]

13. But I don't want to sell our souls to get there

If white men in Missippii haven't figured out what's what by now, I don't know that there's much hope for them.

However, we shall see what the good Gov. Dean has been able to do re: building the party in the South when we go to the polls in 2006.

[FrenchieCat]

17. It ain't about kissing ass or selling souls.....

it's about being smart and using a strategy that works in getting them to understand the errors of their ways without patronizing them....that's all.

[wuushew]

14. F*** the South I have your 289 Electoral votes right here!

This assumes Hillary is NOT the candidate in 2008.

[racaulk]

25. I'll grant you OH, NV, and IA, but AZ?

Arizona is still kinda conservative, isn't it? The popular Democratic Governor Napolitano notwithstanding. I've got a feeling Arizona will be red again in 2008, especially if McCain gets the GOP nomination.

[wuushew]

28. oops sorry I meant NM

;-)

[karynnj]

61. There's a lot to be said for a national party,

The national party will develop the party so that local grassroots can both help the candidate and to monitor the state elections to keep things from going wrong. In 2004, Kerry would likely have won if any Democrat on any county election committee would have looked at the machine allocation report that they got before the election and compared numbers to the primaries. They had fewer machines than they did in the primary. What percent of people who came out to vote do you think were deterred because they could not (or would not) wait 4 plus hours, often in the rain, to vote?

The local party could also get informetion to voters increasing numbers in the red and blue states - to insure winning the popular vote. That said, the strategy of having the candidate focus on the swing states makes sense because we have the electoral college. Let's consider which would have been better if Kerry had one more day. Which would have done more for the results - Kerry speaking to 4 or 5 crowds of 30,000 each in Ohio towns OR doing the same in Mississippi. Let's say either days visits lead to say converting 60,000 voters, who were there, saw the local coverage, or were impressed by their friends' accounts. The Mississippi event might get more national coverage, but there is also more chance of harrasment.

[QC]

31. Yeah, that strategy has been working so well for us thus far.

Here's an idea: how about we try being a national party? It worked very nicely in the past, back when we ran this country.

[DinahMoeHum]

59. Right, we have to learn how to count, and make EVERY state a factor.

For further guidance, I suggest reading the book Foxes in The Henhouse by Steve Jarding and Dave "Mudcat" Saunders, the architects of Mark Warner's successful campaign for VA governor.

www.foxesinthehenhouse.com


(snip)
Like a newly discovered treasure map offering a path to buried riches, Foxes in the Henhouse is a hard-hitting political blueprint for how the Democrats can win again in the South and rural America. The authors document the Republicans' rise in the South and Midwest, expose the hypocrisy that marked their ascent, and offer a take-no-prisoners plan to kick them out.
In addition to exposing the lies behind the gradual Republican invasion of the hinterland that began in the 1960s, they offer some surprisingly simple strategies for Democrats to capture each of these issues. Among other things, Jarding and Saunders urge Democrats to

1) Quit turning their noses up at the culture of rural America and talk to people where they live
2) Learn how to count when going after votes
3) Show some passion and retaliate when Republicans assassinate their characters
(snip)

:kick:

[W_HAMILTON]

62. Yeah, back before civil rights...

From 1933 till 1969, Republicans had ONE president win.

After the 50's/60's, we've had Democratic presidents in office for what? About 12 of the possible 36 years?

So yeah, it worked nicely back before the civil rights movement, when someone said that Democrats would lose the south for a generation, and that person has pretty much been proven right.

We need to stop fishing in that pond. For the most part, racist, white bigots are not going to vote for Democrats. Sorry. You can't win their vote by championing issues that SHOULD make sense to most people, because apparently they care more about discrimination and enforcing their personal beliefs on others rather than getting healthcare, bumping up minimum wage, etc.

They don't like blacks, they don't like Hispanic immigrants, they don't respect a woman's right to choose, they especially don't like gay people...so how the hell are Democrats supposed to win them over? By abandoning everything they believe in, tossing all those groups aside, and try to spew out more hateful BS than the Republicans?

Screw those hateful people, worry more about catering to those that believe in the Democratic party, and those 79 million (I think that's the number) of people that choose not to vote. Tap into those two pools of voters, and then you have plenty enough to win national elections.

Stop worrying about carrying the Southern vote, because as long as Democrats stand for the principles that we do, the majority of Southern states are not going to vote along with us, sorry. It might not be politically correct, and I'm sure someone will jump down my throat for one reason or another, but it's the truth.

[QC]

69. Why do you assume that nonvoters are liberals?

It's long been an article of faith around here that if only the nonvoters would vote, then they would elect our people and there would be free tofu and Birkenstocks for everybody and all would walk hand in hand in a spirit of brotherhood.

But every time I ask for proof, the post goes unanswered.

Maybe this time will be different. What makes you believe that the nonvoters are liberals? Is there any evidence for this, or is it simply faith-based political theory?

[W_HAMILTON]

71. I don't

There are all types of non-voters, who lean all sorts of ways. We need to try to tap into those types of non-voters that lean more towards the Democratic side, and find ways to motivate them into voting.

I *could* probably go into more generalizing about what the average non-voter is like, but as you said, that would be more "faith-based." But when I said we need to try and tap into the non-voters, that wasn't because I think they are inherently liberal; it's just because I think they are an untapped resource that we may be able to use to our advantage, whereas trying to win the "Mississippi" white male voting bloc away from the Republicans, well I just don't see us being too successful at doing that.

[Clarkie1]

15. What about white women in mississippi, and black men and women, etc? n/t

[FrenchieCat]

18. They are smarter than the White guys there....

so if we aim at the White guys, we get them all!

[Alcibiades]

23. No, no we don't

If we run someone acceptable to, say, a David Duke supporter, I think you'd see the black vote wither away.

[FrenchieCat]

35. What does David Duke have to do with this?

As a Black voter.....I'm just saying, there's ways to appeal to White men who vote without compromising what Dems stand for. Read my sig.....cause that's his picture there.

[Alcibiades]

41. The bubba test

One way to get the support of a lot of the white voters in the south that the party has lost over the years would be to nominate a George Wallace type. Racial politics in the south being what it is, that was the way the "solid south" was created and maintained over the years.

For the most part, someone who your average bubba-type could vote for would be someone I couldn't vote for. For sure, there are southern white men who never drank the cool aid--my grandfather's one, a Democrat since FDR. I wasn't talking about him, though, but the old unreconstructed Confederate flag on the pickup type-boys, of whom I know many, on account of the fact that we are related. We cannot get their votes, and I don't even want to try.

[FrenchieCat]

47. Well, I wasn't talking about getting t 100% of the White Male vote......

I'll settle for a somewhat radically smaller percentage..... :shrug:

But not to try...is to have failed. I'm not willing to give up on human kind like that....even if their are ignorant, for the most part.

The art of persuation is to get folks to do what they don't want to do, cause at some point they understand that it's better for them.

A plain speaking earnest master diplomat could do this......

[NoPasaran]

72. Not that I'm saying we should nominate one

But who do we have in the Democratic Party these days who would qualify as a "George Wallace type"?

[Maddy McCall]

68. HA! No, you're wrong about the white women.

The only "W: The President" stickers I see on cars these days are on cars driven by white women.

In my class, the most conservative, closed-minded essays and research papers are written by the young women.

Men will let go of a social issue when economic policies kick them in the wallet. Women here won't.

YES, there are progressive white women and white men here. No doubt. But the most conservative, head-in-the-sand voters here are the white women.

[spag68]

19. If the dems don't win in nov.

we might as well throw in the towel, so try to keep your eye on the prize and keep working on this election.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Sure yo right!

that's a definite!

And I'm doing my part! :patriot:

[Alcibiades]

20. Why Mississippi?

Let's be real here. We will not win the most backward states in the south. Mississippi and South Carolina have drunk deeply of the coolest of aide.

I'd be happy with someone who could peel off a Missouri or Tennessee.

Dear God, please don't let Hillary run. Imagine--eight more years of the media paying nonstop attention to Bill Clinton's penis. The horror.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Now you know......

they aren't ever gonna forgive nor fergit that Penis......no matter who runs, the Clenis will always be in the "shadows"!

[Sinti]

22. Rather than the individual

perhaps a more grassroots focus on the ideals, plan, and platform of the whole party would be a better place to start. Someone needs to help a lot of brainwashed people understand that they are killing themselves with their dedication to the party of the wealthy few. If you can get them to hear the message, the man/woman, matters much less. Just my .02 :)

[FrenchieCat]

26. I think we should have approaches from various angles......

certainly ideals, plans and platforms are important!

But if we are discussing a Presidential run...which I think the OP was....then each candidate will develop their own, and hopefully, most of us will vote on the one that represents the most complete total package, including the criteria of who can beat the GOP nominee everywhere and anywhere!

[Sinti]

34. Agreed, but white men in Mississippi would vote for the Invisible Man

if he were running on the Republican ticket, rather than vote Dem.

[FrenchieCat]

36. depends.......

as the approach is everything.

It really does not have to be as you say. Some folks can sell the truth better than others.....so I believe that it can be done.

[Sinti]

38. Packaging is important, but the substance is more important to me

Wes Clark is a better candidate than Mark Warner on both of these issues. I worry about how much of the soul of our party we're willing to give up in order to win.

I think the ideas win, without stepping to the right, if you can get people to listen.

"Some folks can sell the truth better than others." I have to agree with you there, it's the truth, but the party doesn't generally bother to sell it's truth in the South. Talking about the south at all, IMO, is a bold, welcome and long overdue move. The "Southern Strategy" needs to be shown for the divisive, reversal of human progress that it is.

[FrenchieCat]

45. what I am convinced of; we don't have to give up our souls

to anyone for their votes. That's why Wes Clark is someone I support...because he can be very common sense about his message and I have yet to hear him pander. There is a earnest plea that radiates from his messages that can get where no pandering could ever.

Don't know if you've heard it....but if not, watch this one:
Clark's Real State of the Union given back in January.....
In where he talks about much more than National Security
http://securingamerica.com/node/560

[Sinti]

49. Thank you for the link, I will listen

We definitely need someone who can bridge the divide. The wedge issues have created a real and frightening split in the population. We're all Americans, and shouldn't be fighting this kind of cold war at home like we are. Someone needs to stop fueling the religio-fascist and racist fires that the 'pubs have used to as a prop in their sleight of hand for so long.

[FrenchieCat]

53. The speech starts with a long intro from The Emcee.....Steve Clemons....

but once Wes starts talking.....he has a lot to say.

BTW, this is a bipartisan audience.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Nope. The candidate has to pass the 33 million voters in California test.

Al Gore. Russ Feingold.

Those gents in Mississippi you're talking about have already been given WAY too much sway over this process. Enough, already.

[FrenchieCat]

32. The 33 million voters California test was passed by John Kerry.....

but as it seems, the test results there didn't affect the eventual outcome.

[maxfisher]

40. winning Mississippi

 IAM a white guy from Mississippi. When we voted to change our
flag, it was 65-35. That means that I know every white person 
that voted to change. Only a guy like wes Clark or the new Al
Gore could win here. We want someone with BALLS.

[FrenchieCat]

50. Gotcha!

That's what I want in California too!

and that's what it'll take, believe you me, cause this country is gonna need major renovation after 8 years of *!

We'll need some major rehauling over--some Brass Balls, bare knuckles all simmered in a lot of charm with a true tongue! :thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I think we're all on the same page, here.

I like Gore-Feingold. As the prev. poster put it (welcome to DU) the NEW Al Gore.

But I like Wes, too.

[AndyTiedye]

42. Why Do White Men in Mississippi Matter More Than Anybody Else?

Do you really expect Mississippi to turn blue?

There are more substantial reasons for not preferring Hillary Clinton,
though I will support her in the general election if she is the Democratic candidate.
She might actually make a good President, but the RW hates her so much they will do ANYTHING to stop her.
I'm not sure why that is, since she has actually been quite accomodating to the right.

I think Russ Feingold would be a better candidate and would make a better President.
Those who are greviously offended that he has dared to call for the censure of King George
would not vote for us anyway. Bush** is a clear and present danger to our country and the world.
We need to censure, impeach, and send them to the Hague.

[justice1]

70. It's not about people in Mississippi mattering more...

It's about showing them they matter.

[blm]

73. Kerry telling them in Jun2004 that their coastline needed urgent attention

and an immediate 14 billion dollars of priority spending to strengthen it ASAP, should have been a wake up call to the gulf states.

You think those Mississippi white men would vote differently now? You BET they would.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trent Lott votes Dem in 2008 - as long as no one found out.

[ladjf]

43. So could Gore.

[AtomicKitten]

48. big time

[ladjf]

63. I believe this Gore's time has come. He is the one for America.

[DetroitProle]

51. nope. no thanks.

Now, I'm not saying everyone in Mississippi is insane. But I'm willing to bet a huge number of white, male, Mississippi voters vote Republican because: They're racist, or, they want Jesus in public schools, or, they hate homos, or,
any number of attributes we cannot reconcile ourselves to.
SO, let's concentrate on winning over voters in SWING STATES who have simply been misled.
The ones who fell for the terra crap. The ones who felt that Republicans and tax cuts would somehow be good for the economy. The ones who felt Republicans were somehow more moral.
So let's work on winning middle class, working class, average Joe Shmoe's from OHIO, FLORIDA, MISSOURI, IOWA, NEVADA, NEW MEXICO.

[liberalnurse]

55. I have a feeling, that John Edwards

is working on just that skill.

[JNelson6563]

56. Yes, we should focus only on Mississippi

white men. They are the most important.

:puke:

Julie

[theboss]

57. Mississippi is far off the D's radar, it's not even funny

Now if you are talking North Carolina or Tennessee, I might listen. Heck, winning Florida would be nice. Just one southern state is really all we need.

[skipos]

58. Clark and Warner!!! nt

[karynnj]

60. nonsense

This would be like saying the Republicans need to nominate a man who could be taken seriously in Cambridge Massachusetts. Even in Mississippi, the white male vote is the least likely to go Democratic - I can understand saying we need someone who can win the total vote in purple states, but I definately don't think it is necessary to win the most Republican voters in a very red state.

I doubt any Democrat, including Clark or Warner could do this. (Virginia people, did Warner win the white male vote there, or did he just do well enough that his lead in women and black voters was enough.

[wuushew]

64. kick

:kick:

[Mass]

65. May be we should choose a Republican. He would probably fit your

criteria.

I just hope the next nominee remembers what Democrats stand for. That is more important than any regionalism.

[blm]

66. What about a guy who told Miss folk their coastline needed reinforcing in

the 2004 campaign, and as president he would strengthen all the vulnerable areas along the gulf coast as a priority measure?

[Pithy Cherub]

67. What's the point of a pol that plays in very red areas if you lose

the big powerful light to dark blue areas in the process. The message has to transcend geography and outline a future coupled with experience in key areas. Tested national security leadership is going to rank highly as well as domestic policies that are not tied to privitization and corporate welfare. If the candidate has no foreign policy experience except a passport and did corporate business, fully expect that inexperienced candidate to get very rough upped in the crowded primaries.