I finally did it...I watched Passion of the Christ

[pointblank]

yesterday. I had been turned off by all of the hype and I think Mel Gibson is a quackbut it was on Showtime on-demand, which I get to access for free with my Showtime subscription, and let me just say...

I enjoyed it.

I was raised Catholic, but I am totally turned off by most Christians and their hypocritical attitudes and behavior. Most churches, especially where I live in WASP land are a joke (There was a rally at a MEGA church by my house the other day about how God cures homosexuality and there were ant-gay church members there with signs that said "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" :mad:

...however I do believe that Jesus existed and spread a message of peace and love. This movie ressurected a lot of things that I remember learning about as a kid in bible class (the characters especially)

What really sttod out to me was...

Being how popular this movie was amongst the religious right, especially when it came out, most of those boneheads didn't even see how un-Chrisitan most of them really are. THEY DIDN'T GET THE MESSAGE.

The way I saw Jesus portrayed in the movie, he was a total pacifist, understanding non-judgemental passionate, caring man. he preached on a mountainside about loving each other. He was there for a prostitute who was ostracized and beaten down...He forgave those who disagreed with him... His ideals were very...*gasp* LIBERAL!!!!!

Now, I know that many here who are Christian already know that what I say is true, but what I don't get is how these "Christian" morans could go to this movie, embrace it and dredge up all this hype about it when the whole premise of it COMPLETELY FLIES IN THE FACE of the message that the majority of them spread.

I am in no way bashing all Christians, you know who I AM bashing though. It starts at the top with Bush and Pat Roberston, Phelps and all the rest...and trickles right down to the average Humvee driving soccer mom. Its truly unbelieveable to me.

[Selatius]

1. A sad thought I have is if Jesus came back, they'd probably kill him for..

eschewing greed and condemning materialism and practicing forgiveness and tolerance when they advocate punishment and hate.

He'd be attacked as a communist and a terrorist-loving anti-American, and he would be shot down like Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Sal Minella]

5. Not to mention, he condemned praying aloud in public in groups

and suggested praying in private. Would not go over well at all with the current crowd of "Christians." Not well at all.

[noahmijo]

25. That's what I've always said-Today's Christians would put him right back

on the cross.

If we are to believe the mythology I don't see it as Jews who put him up there: I see it as greedy power hungry moneylenders who couldn't have a loose cannon like Jesus running around preaching peace and distribution of wealth. Today we call these people prominent Christians and they are exactly why I hate Christianity but the man or myth Jesus is someone I could really respect.

[mwb970]

45. He'd get Swift Boated.

They'd have to marginalize him, and fast, because their ideology is diametrically opposed to everything he said, taught, and stood for. The amazing thing to me is how they keep themselves from realizing this. It's, like, obvious.

[Bobbieo]

29. Selatius -That was the thought in the 60;s.

[Rude Horner]

2. I know what you mean

You get all these religious people who say "wasn't Jesus wonderful and compassionate and forgiving" and will tell you right to your face without blinking an eye that we all need to be more like Jesus. ....and then turn around and bash gays and brown people. And they don't see the problem with it.

[pointblank]

6. EXACTLY

I mean, out of all of them there has to be at least a few ntelligent ones who see the irony in this.

The whole time I watched that movie I kept thinking about the irony of it...It pretty much took any miniscule doubt out of my head that these folks are crazy.

[atreides1]

3. It wasn't the message that they were interested in

All they wanted to see was how he was crucified, so they could take notes.

[tocqueville]

4. watching the unlikely torture of somebody is sick

besides the fact that it probably didn't happen

it's amazing how much people stick to myths

[pointblank]

7. Did you ever see the movie

Reservoir Dogs?

[tocqueville]

32. no, and I don't know what it is about

but it doesn't matter. Explicit and long torture scenes in movies feel no function except to satisfy perverted instincts. They don't bring anything to the story in itself. A short scene, a scream is enough. The story is always about something else. It hasn't to be depicted.

Besides as I say, and many doctors would agree with me, nobody could survive such a treatment and then be crucified alive. And I said before, the story probably never happened. People were crucified and whipped yes.
Probably one an another preacher too. But the historical person Jesus is very dubious. It's all about a myth. And you can make a very good movie about the IDEA of Jesus without showing the passion. "The last temptation of Christ" is a very good example. But the "Passion" is only financial speculation into the perverted feelings of rightwing nuts in the US and other places in the world.

It's only interesting in the context of Bush's America. The rest is only perversion.

[pointblank]

37. You will get no argument from me

that the movie was VIOLENT, very VIOLENT. But I didn't see it for the violence and I certainly don't believe it is 100% historically accurate...not to be argumentative, but you are kind of missing my point I think.

It could have been a movie about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the message could have been the same...but it wasn't...it was about a man who is worshipped and held as the savior by many who also support bombing brown people for oil, torture and bigotry. the message moved me, but the irony combined with the message REALLY moved me and just cemented the idea in my head that much more that I AM on the right side.

I only brought up Reservoir Dogs becasue there is a pretty brutal torture scene in it...and it is anything but religious in nature!

peace.

[Rude Horner]

14. The torture scene made me switch channels.

It just made me sick, and whether or not someone believes in Jesus still doesn't change the fact that some people were tortured like that. I just can't imagine a person doing that to another person. I don't care if I was given orders to or not. there's no way in hell I could do something like that to another person or thing.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

59. It's brutal

but I've seen worse, most of it fiction. Not to mention every CSI and Law and Order plot, which is implied violence.

[Mojambo]

8. I don't know. I thought that Jesus guy really hammed it up. n/t

[pointblank]

13. I see your point

The movie wasn't the greatest ever or anything, I guess I was just kind of floored by the irony of it all.

lets say I was surprised that I enjoyed it as much as I did

[lectrobyte]

9. One of my relatives just convinced us to watch it a week or so back

in time for Yeaster (I drink beer and play Yeasty Girls's albums all day to celebrate). I thought it was much better than expected, although the scourging had me cringing. I also thought all the business with the Rabbi punching and spitting on Jesus was way over the top, too. I'd have liked more of his life, and less of the S/M, but that's just me.

[pointblank]

53. "Yeaster" ...heh heh

Shit, it must be "Yeastmas" and "Yeast of July" and "Yeast Day" and "Yeastgiving" etc etc for me then!!!

[lectrobyte]

60. Sorry, I never got the whole dyed-egg easter rabbit thing. It seems like

it should be the biggest Christian holiday, too.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

61. Here's what bothered me.

Satan was portrayed, in my mind, as being gay. Almost a drag queen.

I've never heard anyone mention this. Am I off base?

[Broken_Hero]

10. an interesting fact, off point though...

Okay, my wife use to work for walmarts home offices, at the accounting annex. She dealt with buyers/suppliers, and at the year ending 2004, they have this big meeting talking about what went good, what went bad, and they also find out what the "most" stolen items were at walmart. And at the year ending 2004, the most STOLEN ITEM at Walmart, across the board, was The Passion of the Christ DVD...now figure that one out...:)


On Edit: to add DVD after Passion of the Christ.

[pointblank]

16. OMFG

That is hilarious.

Thou shalt not steal!!!!

[Broken_Hero]

20. Do want to hear some more funny stuff?

year ending 2003, the most stolen item at walmart was 25 inch tvs....


On Edit: Not that this is funny, but the biggest money spending group, meaning which group spends the most $ at walmart, but the biggest spending bloc of people, are the GLBT's.

[pointblank]

22. Thats screwy

must have been a lot of inside jobs.

[Broken_Hero]

27. What it is...

Is the door greeter not checking any items, when they go through the little dector thing, but i don't blame the greeters, all the greeters I have seen would have trouble running after a 5yr old kid.

But, they believe it was predominately the door greeters not checking items in the cart, when the customer/thief/whomever leaves the store. They have caught a few, who use an old walmart reciept, and tape it to the tv box itself, so it involves a bit of subterfuge as well.

[pointblank]

43. Thanks for the idea!

Time for me to go shopping at Wal-mart tonight for a new TV!!!!

JUST KIDDING

[Broken_Hero]

64. Now, now...:) n/t

[CelticWinter]

11. I havent watched it yet

I will though, its just that Im not a movie buff at all and tend to fall asleep during ANY movie

[noonwitch]

12. Was the movie good?

I haven't seen it, but have considered renting it. I don't want to bother if it's not a good movie.

But I know what you mean about some christians. I'm a liberal christian, and kind of shy away from the term christian, mainly because so many christians feel that only they are the true christians. You know what I mean? "You can't be a christian if you support abortion rights, or gay rights". It's good that Jesus has so many self-appointed spokesmen in this day and age.

I've been reading "The Cost of Discipleship" by Bonhoeffer. He was a man who practiced what he preached, and it cost him his life. That's the kind of christian I can admire and see as a role model.

[pointblank]

15. I would say so...yes

Its not a masterpiece and it defintely has that mel gibson "Braveheart" flvaor to it some scenes.

I thought because Gibson made it and was so pompous about it and it was so revered by the religious right that there was no way I could watch it...but I am glad i did.

I think you will be surprised.

[lectrobyte]

36. In technical terms, I thought it was an OK movie. There was a bit

much slow-mo, but a lot of nicely framed shots and from what I could tell, attention to detail. I thought the acting was OK, the music excellent. I suspect a lot of your reaction will depend on what you bring to the movie. The scourging/torture just seemed over the top -- you'd be doing good to even stand up, much less carry a cross, after that. I could see where the anti-semitism complaints could come from, too.

[eissa]

17. I finally saw it too

For free, as I wouldn't pay to rent it. It was a snuff film! My God, two hours of utter torture. I don't think it focused on Jesus' message at all, but instead concentrated on enraging people at what he had to endure during his last hours (assuming he did, in fact, endure such horrific beatings prior to his crucifixion.) The only part I actually enjoyed was understanding some of the old Aramaic dialog, which is somewhat similar to what modern-day Assyrians speak :-)

[pointblank]

24. Yup

it is violent, but you have to admit whenever it flashed back to the parts when he WAS preaching...it was all about his "real" message...te message that modern religion has corrupted, hijacked and ripped from the bible for its own agenda and profit.

Watch it again closely...the message is there.

[lectrobyte]

40. The message is there, but drowned out by glorious slo-mo shots

of blood droplets etc. It seemed to me like 5 minutes of torture, then one minute of flashback. It's almost like they had queeze-meter in the edit booth, because about the time you'd want to get up and leave or hit the pause button, they'd throw in a flash back or cut to Mary or something.

[Auntie Bush]

57. Isn't that just what the Osama dudes do to the Koran? That makes

Fundies just like Osama's followers. I wonder if they (blind as they are) can see the similarity?

[Bridget Burke]

18. I haven't seen it, but Mel Gibson did NOT make the movie....

To get on anyone's bandwagon. It was his personal expression.

The Religious Right adopted the movie. I have "read the book"--& most of that Gang would be glad to Crucify Him again. (Jesus, not Mel.)

[pointblank]

21. Correct

He did adapt it.

But he did direct it and put up his own money to get it in theatres.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pointblank]

26. DING DING DING DING

You got it!

We think alike my friend.

:thumbsup:

[noahmijo]

30. Yea well I don't like hating anything but it just irks me what overall has

been done to the name of Christ due to Christianity. Oh sure we can find large pockets of where Christians fought for good, but ultimately you've got The Inquisitions and blood trails that could cover the entire world and it still grows to this day...and it's all done in the name of a savior who has been turned from a peace loving man to a gun-owning racist murderer who will fry your ass should you doubt HIS divine plan for us all.

Ask me what I think of Islam, pretty much the same thing, although I don't see any Muslims in this country that I can point at for being responsible for what is slowly becoming the downfall of America.

BTW I went to Catholic school and all the motions. I think the more a person is exposed to the religion and has to see firsthand all the bullshit behind it that's how you get people like me who seem like they're full of hate for no reason: hey it's because I've been there already.

[noahmijo]

51. LOOK AT THAT! THE POSTED AGREES WITH MY RESPONSE AND THE MODS DELETE IT

What's the matter MODS can't handle THE TRUTH??????


Ah well a good friend did once tell me never to mess with another person's faith. Problem is I make a hobby of it regardless of said faith.

[pointblank]

47. DARN

did anyone catch what the deleted message said??

i never get to see those before they are taken off!

[ComerPerro]

23. You're exactly right, and the answer to your question

is, well, sadly, many of todays Christians treat their religion like some sort of sick death cult.

They made the focus of the movie not how he lived, or even how he reacted to and accepted his impending death, but instead about the death itself, the torture, the abuse, the crucifixion.

Nothing else.

That's all they took away from it.

[rniel]

28. Looked like porn for masochists to me

I'll bet some of the wacky soldiers at Gitmo really enjoyed that one. Gave them some new fantasies to try out.

[mwb970]

54. That's just what I was thinking.

It sounds kind of sick, like some kind of weird religious porn. It reminds me of the self-flagellating Shiites. And the current torture fad.

Anyone remember the short scene in THX1138 when the guy gets home from work and watches TV? He just sits there calmly, watching one guy beat up another guy. That movie was prescient in many ways.

[pointblank]

31. Just to add an afterthought...

Whoever Jesus was, or whoever you believe Jesus to be...Son of God, Mythical Figure, Prophet, Schizophrenic with good intentions...

It really would behoove us as a society to try and be more like the person he TRULY was or written to be.

Neither the movie, nor Mel Gibson created the idea, but for what its worth, and I am not afraid to admit it, I for one and going to try and be more patient and understanding than I already am in my life...this is something that was ressurected in ME by viewing this flick.

Any lurking repukes should watch the movie again and rethink their beloved Bush's policies.

Thank you, that is all.

[DerekG]

33. It *could* have been a great film

Had Gibson expunged half the violence (particularly during the scourging), added more flashbacks (a loving gaze between Jesus and Judas; Christ's saving Magdalene from torment and death), and depicted Pilate as the moral monster he was, this would have been quite exquisite. I was rooting for Gibson: he may be conservative, but he's too interesting to be a Bushbot. Sadly, "The Passion of the Christ" is a horrow show with a scant number of elegiac, radiant flashes.

I recommend "The Gospel According to St. Matthew," "Jesus of Nazareth" and "The Last Temptation of Christ" for more rewarding experiences.

[lectrobyte]

52. Yeah, that kind of sums it up for me too. I actually liked it more than

I was expecting, but it could have been so much more.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

34. I was very moved by the film

I was raised a Catholic but I don't go to mass anymore. I'm about as liberal as they get on every issue and this film was very touching to me. I especially liked the cutting to the scenes of the Last Supper and Jesus' request to his disciples that people remember him by simply loving each other, without conditions or prejudices. The message of pure and unconditional love is beautiful, no matter what your religious persuasion or political point-of-view. But I do not like the way people have exploited Jesus' memory for their own motives.

[pointblank]

39. Well put. nt

[Neil Lisst]

35. Please! No spoilers!!

[Disturbed]

46. Would the film have caused such a stir if...

the torture scenes were not included?

[pointblank]

48. Undoubtedly

and sadly no...The message of jesus is what should be paid attention to, but it apparently was not.

[Neil Lisst]

63. "The Passion of Mel Gibson's Catholicism" should be the title

he loves pain

[Bridget Burke]

67. Perhaps the torture was overemphasized...

But Jesus WAS scourged & crucified. (I haven't seen the movie, but I've read the book.)

[RebelOne]

70. Can't be any spoilers. Everyone already knows how it ended.

[Jigarotta]

38. I 'liked' it too, not sure if that's the proper word tho.

I'm not religious by corporate church standards at ALL, btw. I don't even really believe in that particular Jesus, but I sure believe that some have the qualities he had and I think I understand the general message.

but some thoughts:
it was gruesome, because it IS gruesome - the way people were put to death in that time. The message was the suffering he was willing to take for having a stand against the establishment.

At the beginning, in the garden of olives:
"Dad, Please don't make me do this" - I found heartwrenching.

And I found that Judas wasn't so much a traitor but just a pawn to fulfill the story. I really cringed at his suffering as well.

[dogday]

41. You know what they say

If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword...

The Fundie people hijack the name Christianity.. It is not representative of Jesus teachings, but more the old testament "Rath of God" stuff...

[The Stranger]

42. You enjoyed it?

Did you cheer for Pontius Pilate?

[pointblank]

44. Nah

Actually I was cheering for Mary Magdalene...she was FINE!!!




MONICA BELLUCI!!

[The Stranger]

58. She is definitely one of my favorites.

French, oui.

[noahmijo]

49. You know you just made me LMAO cheer for Pontius Pilate

I know Bush would've cheered for him! see it's great to be the dictator!.....



Shit that's not funny and actually...ah dammit REALITY SUCKS!!

[KingFlorez]

50. Couldn't watch it

All the violence in it I heard about, I couldn't take watching that.

[Charlie Brown]

55. I didn't care for it

not because of the religious message of the movie or the graphic images, but because it wasn't a very good film.

Gibson trots out a variety of cliches and formulaic conventions to tell the story, like flashbacks, slow-motion photography, and of course the intense gore of the scourging scene. Most of the dialog scenes with Pilate and his wife looked like rejected scenes from "Gladiator." I got the impression that Gibson was trying to "guilt" the audience into seeing things his way by devoting so much of the film to the scourging (while so little is spent on Jesus' teachings and compassion).

Also, the film is not what Gibson claimed it to be. He said it was an entirely faithful depiction of the Gospels, but he for some reason icorportated the "mystical" writings of Anne Catherine Emmerich (I think the scene with the bird pecking out the thief's eye came from this, an entirely needless scene). The Chrisitan Right promoted the film as an inerrant depiction of the Gospels, yet the Director turned to non-biblical sources for his film. It just seems hypocritcial to me.

For a worthy retelling of Christ's life and message, check out Franco Zeffereli's "Jesus of Nazareth." Another good movie that got strangely little-notice from evangelicals is Robert Duvall's "The Apostle."

[musiclawyer]

56. I loved the movie

The Director (Mr Opus Dei himself) tried to make an artsy film injected with his own personal vision and statement in connection with JC's last 24 hours. Hence, the choice of langauage and ultra- violence. It was Kubrickesque. Think Clockwork orange. If yo don't like violence. Fine. But for the Director, it was not gratuitous. He was trying to leave a mental, if not physical impression on his audience. And if you think JC is just a myth or not historical, then it's just fiction then, isn't it? Tell me the movie sucks because of the screenplay, or the acting or the writing or the editing--not because you don't agree with the Director's perspective on the last 24 hours of JC(which btw I do not.) That's how Republicans decide what they do and do not like.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

62. I saw the same thing...

And I was moved by the scenes with Jesus and his mother. The one where they were laughing while he was building the table, etc...I liked that the movie portrayed him as normal, loving, peace loving, liberal, and real. I truly enjoyed the movie. What pissed me off was how the christian right idiots took the movie and perverted it.
Duckie

[robcon]

65. I thought it was a GREAT movie.

Atmospheric and realistic. I felt I was in Judea in Biblical times.

Wonderful story, despite the language problem.

[Jigarotta]

66. Aramic (?) the language.

just hearing it ... so, demonstrative or something. Sadly beautiful in the context I suppose. Very moved by the language.

[DiverDave]

68. If I want to see a snuff film, I'll contact

the seedy section of town...

[FlaGranny]

69. I believe Christ existed

and I'm an atheist. I believe that he was crucified. Who was Jesus? I believe he was a good man and a religious man who was perhaps similar to Gandhi or Martin Luther King. He was a charismatic who developed a following so strong that his followers wrote about him as though he were a God and - it stuck.

Every so often a charismatic personality comes along and, when one does, we'd better hope he or she is not a dangerous person. A lot of charismatic personalities seem to make it show business, whether or not they have any great talent.

Now I'm sitting here wondering - what actually makes someone charismatic?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. A snuff flick with nothing about what Jesus taught in it.

I'm an agnostic, but an admirer of Jesus the man. This film was an exercise in sadism not much different than the average slasher flick with even more gore.

That Jesus was tortured and crucified is history. So were millions of other people. The film dwells almost solely on the intricacies of the torture with no attempt at perspective or context.

It was the equivalent of movie being made about Gandhi that was limited to him being shot and dwelling on his death throes for 2 hours.

"The Life of Brian" had more in it about Jesus than this piece of boring (unless you revel in torture) trash. And, a helluva a lot better movie.

It was reminiscent of those "Death on the Highway" flicks they used to show us in high school.

[itcfish]

72. I Enjoyed it Too

I am a flaming liberal and a Catholic!