Pro choice is a lie: The baby doesn't get a choice

[undeterred]

I was behind a car with this bumper sticker for about a half hour in traffic so I had time to ponder it from every angle.

Is a 8-12 week fetus cabable of making such a choice...?
Does the choice of the pregnant woman matter at all to these people?

[xultar]

1. The parents are making the choice. Which is what all parents

or possible parents should do.

You wouldn't let a 3 year old have a choice on what to eat.

[Yupster]

42. Parents????

Do you mean parents, or woman?

It must be a woman's right to choose. If it's a parents' right to choose, then sometimes the parents won't agree. There must be one person to make the decision, and that one person must be the woman.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

49. I'm inclined to agree.

I have seen the case made that a man should have the option of delivering an ultimatum to his partner to either have a termination or do without child support, if he does so sufficiently early, but I think the arguments against - psychological effect on the mother, and either depriving the child of support or forcing the state to pay, making it easy for the parents to cooperate to obtain the money - clearly outway the "equality of choice" argument in favour.

I certainly agree that a father shouldn't be allowed to prevent his partner from having an abortion, though, also doing so should be grounds for a divorce.

[xultar]

63. Please read post #62

[xultar]

62. parents... adults.... big people... womens.....

Why be so literal and then beat on it with a stick. I'm a woman don't you think I fuckin know?


GEEZ WTMuthaF

[baldguy]

2. "And what sort of ice cream would your fetus like?"

[Donald Ian Rankin]

54. Please don't...

The mental image associated is not pleasant...

[Maddy McCall]

3. WWZD

What Would Zygote Do?

[texastoast]

8. You are on a roll today

You made me spit on my computer.

[Maddy McCall]

13. LOL

I don't know what's going on. This thread just evoked the most laughter of any thread I've ever read at DU, in recent memory.

:hi:

(And your name makes me hungry. I think I'm going to throw a couple of ribeyes and some texas toast on the grill tonight. :9 )

[northofdenali]

27. Printing that one up as I type - GOOD ONE

Maddy, can I have some of what you're smokin'? :pals:

[Maddy McCall]

28. The only thing influencing my brain right now is Excedrin and RC Cola.

:D

:hi:

[northofdenali]

34. Cool, girlfriend - fax me an RC!!

Can't get 'em here in the northland!

[Maddy McCall]

39. You are kidding!

I can't believe that! I don't know what I'd do without RC. :D

Here's a six-pack for ya:

[northofdenali]

40. Got 'em!! Now, how about a Moon Pie?

Sometimes I miss Alabama for the strangest reasons - not just because my daughter is there!

:P

[Maddy McCall]

46. Here ya go. Banana. Just for you.

:D :pals:

[northofdenali]

58. If you were here, I'd give you a hug!!

:hug::pals::hug::loveya::hug::pals::hug:

Since I can't, tell you what - when you do get up here, I'll buy the first beer! (Alaskan Amber, of course)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. That's a pretty

powerful bumper sticker to ponder.

I don't have any answers.

[sweetheart]

5. Are *you* making a choice?

If you're not, its academic and a true response cannot be ascertained.

Each case is unique... let judges and courts do their job.

[SquireJons]

6. A fetus isn't a baby n/t

[Clarkie1]

7. Of course not, a fetus is incapable of making a choice. The mother is. nt

[KamaAina]

9. Semantics again: It's not a "baby", it's a fetus or zygote

same way the anti's are always speaking of "the mother" rather than "the woman" or "partial-birth" rather than "late-term abortion". The most egregious example of this is the phrase "pro-life" itself, implying that the 80% of Americans who do not happen to share their views are "pro-death".

[Maddy McCall]

10. I don't know why, but this thread gave me the giggles.

Honestly, it's the funniest thread I've read all day. Thanks, undeterred, for opening up this conversation. :thumbsup:

[BlueEyedSon]

11. but when a sick or elderly person makes that choice for themself

the nutcases will camp out at the hospice

[CTyankee]

26. I am so FURIOUS about that!

My mother died one year to this day in a hospice ward at a hospital in Dallas. She was in peace and there were no congresspersons (Tom DeLay eek!)lurking. It was such a comfort for me to know how well she was cared for at the end of her life. It makes me angry all over again to think about the Schiavo case. What a disgrace.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

12. My blastocysts were MENSA members.

Just so everyone knows.

:sarcasm:

[Maddy McCall]

15. *snort*

:spray: :rofl:

[undeterred]

16. then they should have started the group "blastocysts" for choice

"We're smart enough to choose NOT to be born into this crappy world you've left us!"

[sandnsea]

36. My zygote can kick your blastocysts ass!!!

Making sure the hick contingent is represented. :)

[undeterred]

41. My blastocyst doesn't have an ass yet!!

[jsamuel]

14. well, even if it was an 87 year old, they still wouldn't according to them

no suicide allowed either

[DanCa]

17. After dealling with the asshat that I had to deal with today

these loons have lost all credibility with me. Oh btw Dear Mr President, a fetus is not more important than a disabled person.

[Kerrytravelers]

18. Pro-life is a lie. They are pro-birth. They'll execute and bomb in a flash

[undeterred]

19. I could have tapped her bumper with my car and said

THE BABY CHOSE FOR ME TO DO IT

(not pregnant, but how would she know?)

[Faygo Kid]

20. It's no one else's choice. Period.

It is the woman's choice, period, to control her own body, and whether to give birth.

[Turbineguy]

21. I wonder if the people

with that sticker spank their children. And if their children choose to be spanked.

[northofdenali]

32. I kid you not, I saw a "Pro-life and I vote" sticker

on a minivan a couple of years ago. Had to have been at least 6 kids (all under 14) in the van, along with mama.

We were stopped side-by-side at a red light on a hot day, so windows were down. She was SCREAMING at these kids and reaching in the back slapping at them indiscriminately.

I tapped my horn, looked at her, and laughed my ass off. My spouse, not a creature of quiet, shy nature, yells "you birthed 'em, dumbass".

Oh well.

[Hekate]

65. Denali, you and the missus were spot on!

:wow: I wouldn't've had the nerve. :rofl:

Hekate

[Marnieworld]

22. I also didn't get a choice to be born either

And I bet there are a lot of people given the choice of parents they'd chose no. Just saying.

[stillcool]

23. my mom died ...

when I was a year old. She had cancer......I've been told that my birth accelerated her death. Dad was a WWII vet, who was teetering on the edge of sanity, and dove right off the cliff after she died. Unintended consequences prevailed for a very long time. People...normal people...have no clue what it's like to grow up without the experience of family, home, and connection. If my mom were making the choice 20 years later, I don't think she would have had me. At least that's what I like to think. That had she not been burdened by religious, and societal influence, her mind would've been free to realize what the consequences of a life unwanted might be.

[robertpaulsen]

24. Straw man BS: NOBODY has had a choice since Dec. 12, 2000

When Fundigelicals paste bumper stickers advocating the right to vote for fetuses, then maybe I'll know they're seriously worried about babies not having a choice. :wtf:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. A zygote is hardly a baby

I really think that many "right to lifers" have this vision of little freeze-dried Gerber babies that appear in a woman's uterus the moment after conception.

[Maddy McCall]

29. "freeze-dried Gerber babies"

:rofl:

[ComerPerro]

30. Pro life is a lie: Poverty kills thousands

[Hekate]

66. Millions, but who's counting? -- I want that bumper sticker!

PRO-LIFE IS A LIE: POVERTY AND DISEASE KILL MILLIONS.

Hekate

[ComerPerro]

71. you and me both. I might have one printed

[gratuitous]

31. Can I declare millions of half-babies as dependents?

I suppose I should have a sperm count assessment so I get an accurate number for the IRS.

[dorktv]

35. Well you have to get an accurate count and divide by two since

you have half life with one, so two means full life.

[Agnomen]

33. One more time:

It's a fetus until it can be claimed on a tax return.

[LittleClarkie]

37. I wish both sides could just agree on contraception

and go from there. Prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

[Hekate]

67. Reliable, available contraception has always been my hope for women

I'm pro-choice, but I've always believed that "choice" is meaningless unless a woman also has the means to prevent unwanted pregnancies as her FIRST line of defense.

I will never understand the heartlessness of the pro-birthers who would refuse those means to any woman of childbearing age.

Hekate

[Iniquitous Bunny]

38. These people are also opposed to hormonal contraceptives...

because of the possibility that if an egg is fertilized, it won't implant due to the hormones. It really is a blastocyst at that point. 16 cells I believe. At this point it time, it's estimated nearly half won't survive anyway.

I'm sorry but this is ludicrous. To them, women are not people with lives, dreams, and abilities. They are little more than cattle for breeding purposes.

I am a mother. I love being a mother. However, I love my children enough to want to make choices about my body and my reproductive life in order to give them a life that doesn't involve poverty and me as a completely stressed out human being.

[Rex]

43. Mankind is the ultimate hypocrite; the woman makes the baby

and the man sends it off to die in manly war. If we really cared about a women and her ability to bring life into the world, then why do we send our creation off to war 20 years later? Truly we don't give a shit about life in general IMO.

[Horse with no Name]

44. BUT it is a double edged sword

Because just like the fetus doesn't have a choice to be born--he didn't have a choice to become a fertilized egg either.
He doesn't have a choice in parents--what if he ends up with Republicans and he is a Democratic zygote?
Do they EVER realize how "STOOPID" they sound?:shrug:

[omega minimo]

47. He?

[Horse with no Name]

48. ummm

He or She?
:banghead:

[omega minimo]

61. It doesn't choose that either

"S/he" is useful. :hi:

[omega minimo]

45. Y R Rape, Abortion & Porn DU Favorites? I think it's cuz of AIDS

People aren't having good sex/relationships, so they fixate on all the Reich Wing Wedge Issues, just as Luntz and Rove predickted.

:yoiks:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. I Don't Think That's An Accurate Depiction Of DU At All.

If we looked at all the threads on the first full ten pages of GD and counted the ones about rape, abortion and porn, and compared that number to all of the other topics, I'm inclined to doubt highly that they would outnumber the others.

I also think many people are having good sex and good relationships, so to say "people" as if meaning the overwhelming majority of them, is probably also quite a stretch.

I would also wager that AIDS is the furthest thing from DU'ers minds as motivation for posting a thread about rape, abortion or porn, but maybe some do, who knows? :shrug:

[Maddy McCall]

56. You jest?

:shrug:

[omega minimo]

60. Since those topics generally turn into ginormous flamefests

and many times the core issues get overlooked, there seems to be a fixation on sex at the root. :evilgrin:

AIDS? I dunno. Maybe it's latex poisoning.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

50. That's exactly why abortion should be legal of course.

If the foetus could make choices, then aborting it really would be murder.

[RebelOne]

51. Well, let me put it this way.

If I am pregnant and I do not choose to be pregnant, it is my choice to abort.

[Gold Metal Flake]

52. I thought this was another circumcision thread.

[AlCzervik]

53. They love the fetus but hate the child.

[Clark2008]

57. Parasite:

# Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

[maveric]

59. When does a baby EVER get a choice?

Dumb sticker!

[mykpart]

68. Baby doesn't get a choice whether to

be born to a stupid redneck, either! Or a choice about whether to be profoundly retarded or with no brain.

[Hidden Stillness]

64. The Fetus Didn't "Choose" to be Born, Either

People do not get pregnant because they have now recieved word from the fetus that it wished to be born now, so there is no "choice" there either. These people also need to be reminded that as soon as they gave birth, they sentenced that baby to death: we will all eventually die, and the baby never would have had to go through inevetable life--and death--if not for the decision of the parents.

[kestrel91316]

69. The vessel is not allowed to have a say. It is not male.

[undeterred]

70. that says it all!

a potential male must trump an actual female