Anybody want to help me debunk some Freeper LTTEs?

[NewJeffCT]

This is what I have to put up with...

Force Fed Garbage
It is amazing how many people are willingly being force-fed half-cooked garbage and then they rehash it. I am referring to the “Bush Spying Outrage”. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) Title 50, Chapter 36 subchapter 1 paragraph 1802 “Electronic surveillance authorization without court order” clearly states that the president can authorize through the attorney general electronic surveillance without a court order against “Foreign Intelligence Powers.” In paragraph 1801 (4) such powers are listed, among others, “A group engaged in international terrorism or activities in preparation thereof.” With Executive order 12139, 23 May 1979, President Jimmy Carter authorized electronic surveillance without a court order. With Executive order 12949, 9 February 1995, President William Clinton authorized physical searches without court warrants. (This includes break-ins and planting bugs in your house or business). Go online and check it out at www.fi sa.gov.

Feel free to submit your own, as it is anonymous. I'd recommend using one of the local towns as a place of origin, though.

Submit here: http://www.remindernewspapers.com/speakout/speakout.htm

more Speak Out here: http://www.remindernewspapers.com/Default/Skins/Vernon/Client.asp?Skin=Vernon&Enter=true&Daily=VERN&GZ=T&AppName=1

[benddem]

1. just more crap from the righties

neither Carter nor Clinton authorized wire tapping without court orders against US citizens. The against US Citizens is the point that is clearly left out in their screeds.

[Trevelyan]

2. They were using that today on AOL Messageboards.

Good to have rebuttal. One person on AOL did ask a FReeper why he hated liberals and got a half-way human answer because she stated that people should stop hating and that she really wanted to know and the FReeper said that people had called him a redneck in response to his posts.

I know that many are in the employ of Rove but the others might be won if we could hold our temper and ask questions and really listen. We need as many people as possible to fight the bush regime.

I don't have the patience or the skill but have been thinking about it.

I rarely respond directly to the liberal taunts, just post truth sites links and paragraphs rebutting from other peoples' articles since I'm not a writer and I used to let the taunts get to me. Came close today. Either the RW is afraid about Alito or the Rove paid FReepers are trying to get the non-aligned against a filibuster.

Haven't seen so many crawl out of the woodwork in a long time.

[ingac70]

3. U.S. citizens weren't part of those deals!!

[NewJeffCT]

5. Here is the quote I got from Media Matters

www.mediamatters.org

hat Clinton actually signed <[br />> /rd?http://www.fas.org/irp/
> offdocs/eo/eo-12949.htm ]:
> Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1)
> <50 U.S.C. 1822(a)> of the > Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to
> approve physical searches, without a court order,
> to acquire foreign intelligence information for
> periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes
> the certifications required by that section.
> That section requires the Attorney General to
> certify is the search will not involve "the premises,
> information, material, or property of a United States person. <[br />> /rd?http://

[Flabbergasted]

9. This website sais this law is effective in 2002

U.S. Code as of: 01/22/02
Section 1822 - Notes
SOURCE
(Pub. L. 95-511, title III, Sec. 302, as added Pub. L. 103-359,
title VIII, Sec. 807(a)(3), Oct. 14, 1994, 108 Stat. 3444.)
EX. ORD. NO. 12949. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE PHYSICAL SEARCHES
Ex. Ord. No. 12949, Feb. 9, 1995, 60 F.R. 8169, provided:
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution
and the laws of the United States, including sections 302 and 303
of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (''Act'') (50
U.S.C. 1801, et seq.), as amended by Public Law 103-359 (50 U.S.C.
1822, 1823), and in order to provide for the authorization of
physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes as set forth in
the Act, it is hereby ordered as follows

[Flabbergasted]

4. This legal brief came out in March last year I think its still illegal

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00001802----000-.html


TITLE 50 > CHAPTER 36 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1802 Prev | Next

§ 1802. Electronic surveillance authorization without court order; certification by Attorney General; reports to Congressional committees; transmittal under seal; duties and compensation of communication common carrier; applications; jurisdiction of court

Hmmm..
RELEASE DATE: Release date: 2005-03-17(Kind of confused about that)

This is all legal mumbo jumbo but it sounds like Bush's lawyers wrote this law and posted it. Its still against the law I think but I'm not a lawyer.

[Flabbergasted]

6. Here it sais:

U.S. Code as of: 01/22/02
Section 1802. Electronic surveillance authorization without court order; certification by Attorney General; reports to Congressional committees; transmittal under seal; duties and compensation of communication common carrier; applications; jurisdiction of court

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/50/chapters/36/subchapters/i/sections/section_1802.html

Same law different dates weird.

[NewJeffCT]

7. Here is my rought draft so far

In response to "Force Fed Garbage", yes it seems we are always being force fed this baloney by the right. It was very deceptive of you to selectively quote executive orders from Presidents Clinton and Carter to justify Bush's illegal spying. What was left out was vitally important in that this spying was never allowed against US Citizens. In fact, the order signed by Clinton went ever further and required certification by the Attorney General that the search was not against US citizens. The exact quote is "Attorney General to certify the search will not involve 'the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person.'" To top it off, neither Clinton nor Carter allowed this fascist-like spying on anybody inside the United States, citizens or not. Bush has taken a page right out of the "How To" manual for dictators. Our Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves.

[Flabbergasted]

8. By the authority vested in me as president.....

Section 1802 - Notes
SOURCE
(Pub. L. 95-511, title I, Sec. 102, Oct. 25, 1978, 92 Stat. 1786.)
EX. ORD. NO. 12139. EXERCISE OF CERTAIN AUTHORITY RESPECTING
ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE
Ex. Ord. No. 12139, May 23, 1979, 44 F.R. 30311, provided:
By the authority vested in me as President by Sections 102 and
104 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C.
1802 and 1804), in order to provide as set forth in that Act (this
chapter) for the authorization of electronic surveillance for
foreign intelligence purposes, it is hereby ordered as follows:


Does the president have this authority? Can a president just change any law he wants? Whats the legal justification? This they have not released.

[Flabbergasted]

10. Ok I got it....

They are confusing the issues. section 1802 allows for

(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at -
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications
transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between
or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2),
or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than
the spoken communications of individuals, from property or
premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign
power, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2), or (3) of this
title;
(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance
will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United
States person is a party;

NOT what George Bush is doing which is spying on people within the US who they may or may not suspect of being involved in terrorism.
Its not legal. IMPEACH HIM

[NewJeffCT]

11. Thanks

good research! I appreciate your help.

[NewJeffCT]

12. kick for Wednesday

thanks

[monarch]

13. Thanks NewJeff

I know I can count on you for Ct updates. I sent my own reply saying that the item perfectly illustrates the gullibility of Bush supporters (kind of like "moran") and I would be interested to know whether any of our comments are used in the next issue. I don't know whether that rag is distributed in East Haddam, where I live, but I used to read it at work in Hartford when someone brought it in to make fun of.

[NewJeffCT]

14. they are sometimes a week behind

So, if you sent in a comment this week, it may not make it into print until the following week (i.e., the paper that comes out the week of Jan 22nd) and not this upcoming week, the week starting on Sunday, the 15th.