21 yo woman I work with asks me this morning if a husband can rape his

[Saphire]

wife. From her stories, he seems to be a typical abuser. How can I make her understand that he will never change and things will only get worse for her? As of now, I don't think she really wants to leave him (some of you know how "young love" can be), but I see it as inevitable in the future. Right now, she is looking for comfort, not a lecture on abuse. What do I say to her? Why are some people such animals?

[derby378]

1. Call the cops

He's a menace to society if he rapes his own wife.

[Che_Nuevara]

3. Yes, but there has to be some evidence when you call

or else nothing happens to him. Except he gets pissed that the cops got called, and hits her harder.

[Che_Nuevara]

2. My recommendation would be

don't try to communicate much of anything to her yourself. Instead, offer her access to resources where she can read / hear / whatever firsthand from other people. Websites, communities, literature, that sort of thing.

[rodeodance]

4. yes, there are excellant groups that can help her.

[xultar]

5. Agreed.

[TygrBright]

6. Good advice, Che...

Be kind and nonjudgemental and facilitate access to information resources. Someone she can feel safe with.

encouragingly,
Bright

[lukasahero]

29. Excellent advice

You can also listen to her, and take her seriously.

[stop the bleeding]

7. some sort of support group would be a good start,

I really do not know what else to say.

[NMDemDist2]

8. print this out and leave it at her desk with a phone number of a local

domestic violence center, preferably one she can call anonymously

Recognizing abuse: Know the signs

It may not be easy to identify abuse. An abusive relationship can start subtly. The abuser may criticize your appearance or may be unreasonably jealous. Gradually, the abuse becomes more frequent, severe and potentially life-threatening.

"It's important to know that these relationships don't happen overnight," says Patterson. "It's a gradual process — a slow disintegration of a person's sense of self."

However, many characteristics signify an abusive relationship. For example, you may be abused if you:

* Have ever been hit, kicked, shoved or threatened with violence
* Feel that you have no choice about how you spend your time, where you go or what you wear
* Have been accused by your partner of things you've never done
* Must ask your partner for permission to make everyday decisions
* Feel bad about yourself because your partner calls you names, insults you or puts you down
* Limit time with your family and friends because of your partner's demands
* Submit to sexual intercourse or engage in sexual acts against your will
* Accept your partner's decisions because you're afraid of ensuing anger
* Are accused of being unfaithful
* Change your behavior in an effort to not anger your partner

Pregnancy is a particularly perilous time for an abused woman. Not only is your health at risk, but also the health of your unborn child. Abuse can begin or may increase during pregnancy.
Breaking the cycle: Difficult, but doable with help

Domestic violence is part of a continuing cycle that's difficult to break. If you're in an abusive situation, you may recognize this pattern:

* Your abuser strikes using words or actions.
* Your abuser may beg for forgiveness, offer gifts or promise to change.
* Your abuser becomes tense, angry or depressed.
* Your abuser promises to stop but repeats the abusive behavior.

Typically each time the abuse occurs, it worsens, and the cycle shortens. Breaking this pattern of violence alone and without help is difficult.

"When you live in an environment of chaos, stress and fear, you start doubting yourself and your ability to take care of yourself," says Patterson. "It can really unravel your sense of reality and self-esteem."

So it's important to recognize that you may not be in a position to resolve the situation on your own. You may need outside help, and that's OK. Without help, the abuse will likely continue. Leaving the abusive relationship may be the only way to break the cycle.

[aquart]

9. Legally? Depends on state law.

[Fierce]

16. Wrong.

Rape of a spouse is a crime in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

ETA: However, in some states it is treated differently.

[aquart]

18. I'm so behind.

EVERY state? Really? When did they get around to that?

[Fierce]

20. It started in the '70s.

I don't remember when the last state got around to it, maybe the early '90s? Late 80s?

[Fridays Child]

10. A husband can rape his wife. And it's not young love keeping her there.

It can be fear, low self esteem, co-dependency, and other issues. But, if he's abusive, she needs to get away from him. Having said that, I agree that a lecture won't help. It sounds like you're willing to be a friend to her and that's probably what she needs. Please be careful, though. Based on direct, personal experience, I learned that it can be very easy for an abused woman to become as dependent on her rescuer as she was on her abuser.

[Saphire]

22. yeah, I know...I can see the low self-esteem and fear (threats to

leave and take their children from her)...sad situation.

[aquart]

24. Let her know she has somewhere to run.

If you're willing to get that involved. Sometimes that's all it takes. And getting a different perspective on his treatment of her.

We had a gaunt, stringy-haired friend who moved in with my sister for a short time. We helped her go back and get her stuff, too. You have no idea how healthy and vibrant that woman is now. And happy.

She needs to know there's a way out.

[Warpy]

11. Lay it on the line

She needs to get out now because it will keep getting worse and she doesn't want to wait until her spirit is completely broken or she is hospitalized or even killed by him.

Abusers can change if they want to, but it takes years and the motivation has to be there. Staying with him just proves that the abuse is working.

Offer to help. Make sure she has the number of a shelter if there is one. Offer transportation to her parents' house. Tell her to keep a paper trail with the police.

Most of all, tell her that she doesn't deserve this, that nobody does, and that her husband is dead wrong and breaking the law when he does this to her. Tell her she deserves better and that it's up to her to get it.

And if she stays, you need to realize the cycle of abuse can be an addiction for the abused spouse. It generally goes from a beating to tears and swearing it will never happen again and a return to the honeymoon or even courtship with flowers and gifts and romance and then the tension starts to build again. That honeymoon is the addictive part and what keeps a lot of women who are in love with being in love in those horrific relationships. The honeymoon keeps getting shorter as time goes on, though, so let her know that too.

[charlie]

12. Tell her it's only going to get worse

If she's decided she can bear what she's living with now, get her to understand that she's in all likelihood going to have to endure much worse in the future.

[Avalux]

13. As others here have said, she needs assistance.

Don't try to reason with her yourself, but give her information on groups or organizations in your city who can help her. Who cares about young love - this woman could be in a potentially life-threatening situation.

[EFerrari]

14. Try not to send her to resources you haven't vetted.

There are a lot of scams out there with great titles and grants and no helpful services or worse, with half assed ones that will only put her in more danger.

I think Che's rec is the right one but this is the caveat. Good luck. She's lucky to have you. :)

[OzarkDem]

21. Thanks for the "heads up"

Our group often gives referral assistance to women, usually for health care, but we sometimes get women who are sick and in abusive situations. I didn't realize some of the agencies (isn't it often the well funded ones?) aren't running quality programs. Not surprising, considering its the same situation in our field, too. I'll do more checking before I make a referral. I've not been impressed with one of the women's shelters I've spoken with, perhaps its good to dig a little deeper.

[Saphire]

23. great idea's, I did find a few web sites with some "gentle" info on abuse.

ie: how to recognize abuse, both physical and mental.

[gkhouston]

15. tell her

YES. Some husbands do rape their wives and although it's common for the husband (and all too often, for others) to blame such behavior on the wife, what happened to her is not her fault. He won't get better and she won't get safer. "But he loves me..." You don't rape someone you love. "But I love him..." Fine. Go somewhere else and love him from a distance, cause if you stay with him, you'll end up in a hospital or a cemetery and he'll end up in prison -- is that going to help anybody?

[TahitiNut]

17. "Go somewhere else and love him from a distance" Exactly.

Far too many people, both male and female, seem to believe that "love means never saying goodbye." This is the nonsense that leads to dysfunctional relationships and codependencies ... as well as emotional trauma after a separation or divorce. It's entirely possible to regard people as lovable and refuse to live with their behavior.

[mntleo2]

19. Comfort Is Important...

It takes often years and many attempts to leave, for an abused spouse to realize they are being abused. You might also give her some information as to where she can go for help.

But the truth is, the System (and family) are often as abusive as the original abuse. The victim is often "blamed" and there are few safety nets to turn to, for children as well as the parent. Almost 70% of welfare recipients are abuse victims. Most often it is women, but men face even less support. I am not making this up to tell you as a witness that a common scenerio is that the vicitim is almost killed, the abuser is in prison, and limps into the welfare office, after being hospitalized, to apply for welfare assistance. Most likely they have been isolated from extended family for years. The welfare workers look at their watch and say, "When are you going to begin applying for work?"

Worse the only work there is out there are McJobs that would not support a single person, much less a parent ~ and DSHS does not care. In the most progressive of states, even if she/he works for below minimum wage, they count them as "successful" ~ as well as having become employed (as if being a parent is "doing nothing"). This is so DSHS can add these people to their statistics and trumpet as to how many people they have put to work. Who cares if there is as much, if not more poverty, just as long as they make people work for wages that only make some rich man richer?

So, it takes a very strong person to escape domestic abuse. They have to face the terror of being further harmed by the abuser for leaving, give up financial support and even their homes much of the time, navigate a system that is impunitive, face people (even loved ones) who blame them, and overcome the fear they originally had. One can see why it appears to the victim it is easier to stay.

Cat In Seattle
Edited for clarity

[oneighty]

25. Caution

Never get into the middle of a husband and wife fight. It is likely both will turn on you. You do not need the abuser directing his/her attention to you.

180

[fed-up]

26. Suggest that love is defined by ACTIONS, not WORDS and no matter what

he says, it is the way that he physically treats her that counts most. Abused women sometimes have a very distorted idea of what love is and have false hopes for behavior changes in their spouse. They are easy prey for those that heap abuse on them and then promise to change or claim that it was just extreme stress that made them lash out (insert abuse of choice here). These women will sometimes cling to the false hope that their mate will change despite repeated evidence to the contrary. The fairy tale illusion that a happy family will emerge from the battery and abuse if they only work hard enough to keep their mate happy is a hard to break.

They have to look honestly at their relationship to realize that what they really have is NOT the ideal relationship that they may have dreamed of as a young girl. Ask if her childhood fantasies of adult life included living in fear of her mate or for her own or her children's safety. Ask if they included walking on eggshells for fear of triggering an abusive episode.

I was one of those that believed that my mate could change if only I acted just the right way....

I finally listened to the words of the counselor that got me out of that horrible relationship when I started to pay more attention to his actions and not the kiss and make up and the promises that it would never happen again.

I wish you/her luck.

[mandyky]

27. Make sure she has the number of your local

domestic violence hotline. She'll use it when she gets ready.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Beyond all the other excellent advice already provided

Reiterate to her that she should be taking birth control vigilantly.

You can frame this to your young woman friend as concern for bringing a child into a stressed out marriage.

But above all else, if she can minimize "ties" to this loser NOW while she is still relatively free and able to walk away (when she gathers enough of her courage to get out), she will be able to leave that much easier.

Most young women in abusive situations believe a child will mend marital problems (and of course, we all know kids only make the problems worse). And then they really begin to feel tied to the situation and it all snowballs....

Good luck.

[DaveJ]

30. Try to acquire incriminating evidence on the husband.

Be prepared to testify for her in court. Let her know she has people who she can turn to. She needs to be stronger than him and may need help from others to accomplish this.

[Neil Lisst]

31. You have to treat it as an outcry. This is her plea for help.

I know this is butting in, but I think you have to do it. You have to risk upsetting things to get her out of there. I think you need to try to personally drive her to an abuse center, where she can talk to someone and get some help and guidance.

She's not going to be able to think clearly until she's out of there.

[toopers]

32. I believe there was a court case about 20 years ago . . .

in Washington State that settled this issue -- a women sued her husband or had him arrested for raping her, and she won the case.