BUSH: "What an impressive crowd: the haves, and the have-mores.

[Bluebear]

Some people call you the elite, I call you my base!"

What part of this quote was so hard to understand, Bush voters? WHY are you so shocked over $3.25/gallon gas? The threat to veto Hurricane Katrina relief? To a never-ending war destined to install an Islamic-based government in Iraq? Jiminy Christmas, Bush TOLD you in his own words!

[texastoast]

1. Bush supporters deserve what is going on now

Non-supporters do not.

:banghead:

[ComerPerro]

47. They do deserve it. But, like you said, those who voted against him

do not.

Thats the only reason I hesitate when I ponder how hilarious it is that Bush supporters are getting screwed.

Im getting screwed too...

[AndyA]

2. I'd like to congratulate the idiots that actually voted for this man. Your

incompetence, lack of intelligence, and absence of a sense of what's right and what's wrong are astounding. Look in the mirror, you are responsible for this mess we're in. Remember that when you open your utility bill, gas up your SUV, or worry about losing your job to outsourcing.

Hopefully, you've learned something from your mistake, and won't be repeating it ever again.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

3. A room full of people...

...who could give a rat's ass if you or I live or die. The trust fund kiddies, the old money cadavers...the base.

[LeftHander]

7. That and searching for WMDs in the oval office...nt

[Arugula Latte]

8. Look at all those Robber Barons.

So smug, so arrogant, laughing 'cuz they've got theirs and fuck everyone else.

[Rose Siding]

4. I always thought that would be a winning campaign ad

It would be devastating.

[ThomCat]

9. I agree. Is there any good reason not to use that video

for a campaign ad?

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Yes, it was a joke

Al Gore was at the same event, making jokes about himself inventing the internet. Without the context, using it as a campaign ad would be easily demolished and make the user look utterly dishonest.

[ThomCat]

21. So frame it as a joke that wasn't really a joke.

There are definitely ways to present this and use it against him.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. I suppose

It still comes off as dishonest without the context.

[caledesi]

23. Joking about the Internet and WMDs are totally different.

People are dying every day in Iraq bec * LIED about WMDs and reason to invade Iraq. I think it should be used.

In or out of context, it's pretty offensive.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Er...where does this have anything to do with WMDs?

I'm referring to the "some people call you the elite.." joke, which was made in October 2000, long before the war in Iraq. :shrug:

[caledesi]

51. Sorry. My bad. nt

[Robbie Michaels]

5. Is It Me

Or does he look like he's taking a crap in that picture? I hope his supporters understood his comments.

[AlCzervik]

6. "See, poverty smells bad, hehehe"

[uppityperson]

10. People want to believe they are part of the IN-crowd

people are afraid of being looked down upon, or being alone in the playground, so fool themselves that they are part of the in-crowd. It happens at gradeschools and those 3rd/4th grade years where "exclusive" cliques happen (I call them exclusive groups rather than inclusive because they get their power from excluding people rather than including all). Many adults are stuck in this same mind-set, they want to believe that they are part of the in-group so will let those people walk all over and abuse them, laughing off the abuse as a joke. (Note to all, I am NOT talking domestic abuse, have gone through that but am talking generalized humanish behavior.)

[Monk06]

11. I call ya muh base. He He..................

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. OK, I'm dense. He didn't really say this did he?

[pointblank]

13. Watch Farenheit 9/11

He says it all right...plain and simple.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. No, not plain and simple...it was a comedy routine at an event

Al Gore was at the same event, making equally self-deprecating jokes.

Context is everything.

[titoresque]

36. What is wrong with you?

Seriously?
Context?! How has he swayed in the least bit from the context of his "joke"......... 6 years ago?

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. That the joke is true is beside the point

Pretending that it wasn't stated as a joke is dishonest and self-defeating.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. No, he did.

I think it was on Farenheit 9/11, but I'm not sure.

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. Oh, boy.

It just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?

[riderinthestorm]

17. Yep he said it.

Maybe I'm just way too much of a lefty, but that comment would have made me squirm if I had been a supporter and in the room with him when he made that comment.

Breathtaking arrogance! That kind of arrogance is a complete turn-off for me and a person like this gets relegated to the shitlist pretty quick in my life.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. To be fair, the quote came from a comedy "roast" occasion

Al Gore also has self-deprecating humor at that event. The joke was to take the worst things that were said about you and admit them. Al Gore made inventing the internet jokes, etc. It was a few weeks before the 200 election.

[Bluebear]

49. ATTENTION AL GORE ALSO MADE JOKES THAT NIGHT

In case the poster above hasn't made that abundantly clear alreasy. :eyes:

[rman]

19. It's not in the echo chamber,

so nobody knows.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Here's the context: Alfred E. Smith Memorial Dinner, October 2000

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/10/18/politics/main242210.shtml

CBS) Al Gore and George W. Bush did their level best to get the most campaign vitamins they could from a flurry of stops in the Big Apple, from early Thursday on into early Friday.

Each candidate had a heavy schedule in New York, the highlight being Thursday night, when they both joined New York City's political elite at the Alfred E. Smith memorial dinner, a fundraiser for Catholic charities hosted by the Archbishop. Also on hand were New York's candidates in the Senate race: Hillary Clinton and Rick Lazio.

The Al Smith dinner, hosted by Archbishop Edward Egan, is a traditional forum for presidential candidates, although in past years, the abortion issue has kept some candidates away.

The event is named for the former New York governor who was the first Roman Catholic ever to be nominated for president.

The presidential candidates came well-armed with jokes, often poking fun at themselves.

Bush gazed around the diamond-studded $800-a-plate crowd and commented on the wealth on display.

----SNIP----

More at link...

EDIT: COPYRIGHT. PLEASE POST ONLY 4 OR 5 PARAGRAPHS
FROM THE COPYRIGHTED NEWS SOURCE PER DU RULES.

[titoresque]

34. It was a telling joke

regardless of the context of said ...stupid ass moment in history....it was a very telling joke. He has continued to surround himself with the haves and have mores and cares only about them and himself.
I really don't understand why you seem to want to defend this statement?

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. I don't want to defend his statement

I want to defend honest citation. There clearly is a distinction between making the statement seriously to a group of donors at a political event, and making the statement as an obviously self-deprecating jest at a non-partisan fund-raiser. If you don't see that distinction, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Was it a telling joke? Of course. Because the worst that people say about Bush is true. The haves and have-mores really are his base in fact. But that doesn't change the FACT that the statement was made as a joke, and portraying it otherwise is utterly dishonest. Now, one could portray it as a joke and argue that it is a telling joke, because true. That's one thing. But simply removing it from its context and implying that it was said seriously is dishonest, which should be obvious enough.

[riderinthestorm]

41. Even as a joke, it's creepy.

Even in context, if I had been at that dinner, it would have made me squirm.

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. Hmmm...OK

I saw it on TV at the time, and I gnashed my teeth cuz it was Bushie, but I did laugh.

[titoresque]

43. Sorry, you're wrong

People are often very honest while telling a joke, when it's meant as a joke. I understand what you are saying, but in this instance I see that both is true.....he told a joke to get a laugh, not a laugh like "oh is that what they are saying about dubya these days?....wow that's hard to believe...those lefties sure are nuts" NO.....he told the joke, to get a laugh at how true the statement was.
A joke or not, he was telling the truth and everyone in the room knew it......that's why it was sooooooo damn funny. :banghead:

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. All very fascinating, truly

The simple fact is that if you repeat the statement without saying it was stated as a joke, you are lying, and worse, easily caught for lying. And that's silly. This is not hermeneutics (was it really a joke, or a joke that was true as a joke, given its jokiness and truth, or truthiness and jokability, etc., etc., ad nauseam); it is basic attention to sources and the credibility (or lack thereof) that derives therefrom.

You want to argue that the joke is true. That's fine. But if you say "Look what Bush said," and act as if he wasn't delivering a punchline, you're a fucking liar, and everyone will know it.

[titoresque]

45. The punchline

was that it was the truth. That was the joke. Not the context of the joke.....why is this so hard for you to understand?
The joke wasn't saying the words "haves and have mores", or saying that they were his base. The joke....THE PUNCHLINE...was that it was true.
I'm done debating this with you, you clearly want to defend this for some reason. But the fact that you admit to laughing when you watched it on television is in itself sickening. Good day.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. You don't want to debate because your point is laughable

Whatever interpretation we have of the joke, it was clearly designed as a joke for the occasion, and that matters when we talk about it. That's plain as day for all but the most obtuse fanatics. And you bet I laughed. BECAUSE it was true.

Get real.

[DaveJ]

24. People need to be educated on how they can and have been manipulated.

Seriously, such courses should be added to university curriculum. It should teach us how GWB used fear to control us, how GWB used greed to control us, how GWB used mockery to control us, how GWB used lies to control us, etc.

If all this ever ends, I'm sure that future generations will look back and wonder how out nation could have been so stupid and ignorant.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Most universities have that course

It's called rhetoric and composition.

Of course, you're not really supposed to say "here's what this guy did" (and that doesn't really teach anyone anything anyway). You're supposed to say "Here are some principles of rhetoric, now let's read this speech and see how it works." If they come to the conclusion you did themselves that's one thing. If they come to a different conclusion, that's alright too, as long as they can justify their analysis. But telling them Bush is bad and here's why is only going to result in retrenchment and resentment. It's bad pedagogy.

[DaveJ]

29. Ok then we need to teach better in grade school...

It just occurred to me that since the Repugs already disrespect academia adding a college course will do little.

In college my thesis was partially related to how the mind can be controlled, and I really believe that it is possible on a mass scale and that people should understand our vulnerabilities.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. This has been a concern for scholarship for quite some time

Obviously, the entire rhetorical tradition from Gorgias on down has been interested in this question. You also have crowd theory from LeBon on down, publics theory (start with Dewey and Lippmann, move through Habermas, Warner, etc.), the entire field of mass communication, the Frankfurt School, etc. etc. The entire critical pedagogy movement since Freire has attemtped to deal with this in education, but obviously educators have always been fascinated with this question as well. We have no shortage of pedagogies focused precisely on mass communication, popular culture, rhetoric, political theory, etc. I tend to favor those that says it has nothing to do with "mind control" (which is too easy, and a bit self-congratulatory in any case). "There is no ideology, and never has been..."

[DaveJ]

31. The only reason I promoted the conecpt...

...to the term 'mind control' is due to technology. Sure, rhetoric has historically influenced us, but now rhetoric is upgraded with computer graphics, video clips, sound bites, etc. Media's output can be adjusted to obtain the desired effect (I think either individually or on a mass scale). There is an electronic discourse between us and the source, so I call it mind control, but it's all just semantics.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Oh, I agree

In fact, some of the most interesting work in rhetoric these days (for my money) is on rhetoric and technology. There's really a whole field studying this sort of stuff. Similarly in composition pedagogy, new media composition, etc.

[etherealtruth]

27. He is a complete and utter jack-ass

[CatWoman]

32. what the????

You ripped me off, didn't you???


TRUTH BE DEMAND, DAMMIT!!! :hi:

[Swamp Rat]

35. You were ROBBED!

:shrug: :hi:

[CatWoman]

38. LOL

Hi, SR!!

:hi:

I'm gonna kick Bluebear's ass :D

[Swamp Rat]

40. Ooooo!

:bounce: My money's on YOU! :D

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. Joe sixpack repug doesn't think ** means them for whatever reason.

:shrug: Now you and I know that if a Democratic President had said that, it would be aired 24/7 on the corporate owned media. Yet if it weren't for the internet(s), we wouldn't even know that ** said that, would we? I wonder what FReeps think about ** and that comment he made? I am sure they would find a way to justify it, even in light of rising gas prices and his lack of caring about Katrina victims. What, no FReeps were affected by Katrina? :eyes:

[tjwash]

50. The freepers said that he was just joking when he said that.

Seriously. They haven't discussed it since.