The Gaping Hole In Rove’s Defense

[ProSense]

The Gaping Hole In Rove’s Defense

Yesterday, Karl Rove testified for before a federal grand jury about his previous statements pertaining to the leak of an undercover CIA agent’s identity. Rove offered this stunning defense:

Rove’s testimony focused almost exclusively on his conversation about Plame with Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper in 2003 and whether the top aide later tried to conceal it, the source said. Rove testified, in essence, that “it would have been a suicide mission” to “deliberately lie” about his conversation with Cooper because he knew beforehand that it eventually would be revealed, the source said.

Rove wants the grand jury to believe that he wouldn’t have lied in 2003 about his role in the Plame affair because he knew journalists would ultimately tell the truth. But in fact, President Bush and the White House believed in 2003 that journalists would remain silent about the case and would refuse to name their sources:

“I have no idea whether we’ll find out who the leaker is — partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers.” (Bush, 10/7/03)

Snip...

The evidence suggests that when Rove testified in October 2003, he did not believe Matt Cooper would be ultimately be forced to testify against him in July 2005.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/27/roves-defense

[Swamp Rat]

1. The gaping maw that swallows Rove's defense.

:D

[Blaze Diem]

4. Look at Fitz's very sharp teeth!!

lol..haaaaaaaaaaaa
chomp..chomp

[Blaze Diem]

2. ...and KKKarl went down, down, down to that burning ring of fire,

and it burned, burned, burned...that ring of fire....that ring of fire.

[blm]

3. When Bush said that we all KNEW he was warning off many in the DC media

who knew the truth about Rove, Libby and the WH's approval of outing Plame.

Those traitors in the media ALLOWED the WH and Rove to lie about their roles and allowed the SMEARING of Joe Wilson as a liar throughout the year and a half before the election.

They are CO=CONSPIRATORS and should be charged.

[Radical Activist]

5. I can think of some objects I'd like to place up Karl's gaping whole

:)

[warrens]

6. I woulda never have robbed that bank, judge...

Do you think I'm stupid? I know most bank robbers get caught.

I wanna try that defense some day. Just for the fun of it.

[DemoTex]

7. Conditional perfect (indicative mood)? We need an analysis by Will Pitt.

.. “it would have been a suicide mission” to “deliberately lie” ...

We need a good grammarian to parse that highly suspect phrase. Will Pitt, calling Will Pitt!

[leveymg]

8. There's a very good reason for Rove to suicide: the election of 2004

They knew they were going to eventually get caught, but Rove, Scooter and the others did it to protect Bush and Cheney from the POLITICAL consequences of the White House conspiracy to out Plame. It was a self-sacrifice to DELAY the political consequences to their bosses.

Yes, it was suicide for Rove.

I wrote this at DKos:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/20/11309/5077

THE REAL CONSEQUENCES

One can certainly see why Novak is under the impression that Rove and whoever the second high Administration source who outed Valerie Plame to him might have believed that they would escape legal consequences under the IIPA. Too bad for Libby and Rove that there are laws against lying to federal Grand Juries and prosecutors.

The crowning irony is that the lies were unnecessary from a legal standpoint. Libby and Rove, and all the rest who face indictment might have successfully avoided prosecution because of the legal issues outlined above. So, why did they lie? There's only one explanation. It was to protect Bush and Cheney from the POLITICAL consequences of outing Plame. The object of all those counts of Perjury and Obstruction of Justice was to get Bush-Cheney re-elected. That was a criminal conspiracy in itself, and one which the system needs to most severely punish the top-tier ring-leaders for their crimes of state.

There's a doctrine of law called "unlawful enrichment". People who obtain ill-gotten gains from crime are forced to forfeit these gains, and compensate the victims. When the crime is essentially political, how are gains to be forfeited retroactively? The answer to that is surprisingly simple. The election of 2004 would have gone the other way if Americans had learned then what they know now about the actions of the Plame conspirators. That constitutes fraud, which nullified the 2004 Presidential election. George W. Bush and Richard Cheney ceased to be President and Vice President, if ever they really were, some sixteen months ago. Any pardons they may subsequently issue should be treated as a nullity. Indeed, all that they have done since January 20, 2005, can be considered a legal nullity.

It's the right and duty of the American people to make such political judgments and enforce them as we see fit. If we, the jury, decide to defer imposition of sentence to after the upcoming elections, that's fair and would be wise. If, however, the political and legal system manifestly fail again due to fraud, far sterner penalties may be justified by the severity of the crime. The system has just one more bite at the apple.
________________
2006, Mark G. Levey

[blm]

12. They could ONLY do it with the DC MEDIA co-operating with their silence.

they are the WH's co-conspirators who also allowed the smearing of Joe Wilson as a liar throughout that entire time.

[leveymg]

13. There will be hell for them to pay, also. Look at Novak and Miller.

They've both been fired. Even if they're not brought up on criminal charges, they'll be sued, and despised, forever.

There are many who played a role. They'll live to regret it.:evilfrown:

[WinkyDink]

9. There is no statute of limitations on this premise.

I.e., it still very well might BE "a suicide mission" for Rove. The lie IS being revealed. Nothing precludes Rove's having undertaken the lying NONETHELESS.

And one cannot "lie" in any manner BUT "deliberately". Otherwise, it is simply an honest mistake. The pretense is that Rove lied, but did so somehow innocently. Uh, NO.

[Beetwasher]

10. The Old "That Would Be STUPID for Me to Do! I'm Not Stupid, So I Must Not

have done it!" defense.

Pathetic and hopeless. Rove will be indicted if that's what he's banking on. GJ's are NOT stupid.

[savemefromdumbya]

11. Hmm the smell of roast pork..........

Rove was hired because he leaked before

[gollygee]

14. His defense is that he wouldn't lie because it would be stupid to lie?

really?

LOL. There's got to be more than that.

[DearAbby]

15. "a suicide mission?"

or taking a hit for the team with promises of pardon's for their loyalty. We all know how * feels about those loyal to him.


not a suicide mission, if you have a Get out of jail free card in your pocket.

[leveymg]

16. Those who are pardoned can't invoke the 5th. They are time bombs for Bush

I suspect Bush is headed for some serious consequences if he pardons people.

Some of these guys -- Libby and Rove, in particular -- are going to be doing time.

Besides, those pardoned can't invoke the Fifth Amendment. They could be compelled to testify before another GJ, and jailed indefinitely if they refuse to testify against others. If they lie, they could be indicted for perjury. All those who are pardoned become walking time bombs for others who escaped prosecution, including the ex-President and ex-Veep.