Update on Melanie's sister--bad news.

[knitter4democracy]

I just got this e-mail from Melanie:

St. Luke's is now backing down on their agreement. I
don't have many details right now, but please get this
information out.

Melanie


I've put this on the update thread, too. Please get the word out as best you can. St. Luke's does listen to pressure, apparently, and is trying to do this with only a couple of days left for Andrea. Disgusting.

[Roland99]

1. Kick!

[hiley]

127. link to new thread Saturday April 29

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1056998&mesg_id=1056998

[Debau2005]

2. Can you supply us a link to the original thread? nt

[knitter4democracy]

5. Here's the latest one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1045650

It has a decent summary of the problem.

[Suich]

6. I think it's this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=986779

[knitter4democracy]

9. Good--that's the original one.

Thanks! :loveya:

[Debau2005]

10. Thank you.

[moc]

3. Oh no!

:cry:

[tcfrogs]

4. I thought she was being moved to Chicago? n/t

[knitter4democracy]

7. She was, but now something has happened.

I'm sorry that this is all I know. I hope it's something the lawyers can hammer out easily and get her out of there by tomorrow at the latest.

[faithnotgreed]

8. we need al gore to do another rescue mission

just as he did for katrina victims

how horrible that this goes on
prayers and light for a positive resolution

[knitter4democracy]

11. Hmm. That's a good idea.

I'm going to try that one. I've already contacted the right-to-life people I've been in contact with to make sure they know.

[uppityperson]

12. Jesse Jackson Jimmy Carter too

[knitter4democracy]

13. It does seem to be time for the big guns, doesn't it?

I'm going to start looking up numbers now. Please keep this kicked.

[goclark]

78. kick

[rateyes]

108. Jimmy Carter's fax # is...

404.331.0283 Given to me at the Carter Center. They tell me he reads all of his fax's personally.

Edit for transposition in Tel. #...It's correct now.

[DearAbby]

14. why are they backing down?

this is the whole idea of the law, they give the family a certain amount of time to see if they can get another facility that would take the patient. that is part of the orginal law isn't it?

they did this, when they had found the Chicago facility. Why would St. Lukes be stalling, unless they are covering a possible malpractice case...makes you wonder :tinhat:

[knitter4democracy]

15. I have no idea.

I know she said that the hospital agreed to pay for the transfer ($15K or something like that), so I'm thinking that they might be pulling out because of that. If that's the case, I think even less of them now. I mean, the doctor provided crappy care but got paid for it, the hopital caused the bedsore but got paid for it, and now they don't want to pay for the transfer that they really should cover? They really disgust me. I'm hitting the phone in a couple of minutes.

[northamericancitizen]

16. Keep on kicking this, for Andrea. nt

[bamapachyderm]

91. I can't :(

How many posts do you have to have at DU before you can kick, anyway?

[TorchTheWitch]

98. You just did ;)

Kicking a thread just means making a post so that it goes back to or stays on the first page where more people will see it. So when you made your post, you kicked the thread.

Welcome to DU. :hi:


I can't believe the hospital is doing this! What the fuck is wrong with these people??? They found a place that will take her and now they won't let her go??? Jesus, do they WANT to kill her??? This makes me so damn mad!

:grr:

[bamapachyderm]

103. then I'm doing it again :-)

[DearAbby]

30. Shouldn't the insurance cover the transfer?

or even the "right to life" would pay for the transfer, someone would, if it meant to save a life...i don't get it.

[knitter4democracy]

57. They might not, though.

Apparently, there's a problem with the insurance (I'm soooo not suprised :eyes:). I hope RTL will pay if the insurance doesn't.

[stop the bleeding]

17. Kick n/t

[laruemtt]

18. kick n/t

[Horse with no Name]

19. How strange

The Houston Chronicle says it's a "Go"?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3826053.html

>>>>>
Hoping to defuse the latest local controversy involving Texas' futile-care law, St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital agreed Thursday to transfer a severely ill heart patient to a facility in suburban Chicago.

The agreement, announced three days before the hospital planned to take Andrea Clark off life support, comes amid a growing movement to reform the Texas law, which allows hospitals to discontinue terminal patients' life-sustaining care as long as their ethics committee determines the case is futile and gives the patient's family 10 days notice to find another facility.

[nashville_brook]

20. this is what the UNDERGROUND does -- we help the abandoned

i wanted to be active on DU because i believed the task of an "underground" is set to be quite relevant.

what i never expected was that we'd find ourselves activated for MEDICAL EMERGENCIES.

this is the real stuff folks. call! kick and recommend.

[quiet.american]

21. Kick. n/t

[nashville_brook]

22. 832-355-1000 -- St. Lukes, Houston

please confirm this is the correct number. is there anyone in particular we should ask for?

[liberalla]

64. Keep calling this number! 832-355-1000 (St. Luke's operator)

They transfer me to a "media office" or something like that, and I leave a message.

Does anybody have a FAX #???

[Just Me]

23. This whole situation disturbs me, terribly.

After the intentionally-created "drama" over the private family conflict in the Shiavo case, this situation just makes me cry. No wonder so many people have become completely disillusioned with justice. The inconsistency in how people are treated is aweful.

I'm sorry. :cry:

[knitter4democracy]

24. Update from Melanie

This is what happened: St. Luke's contacted the
Chicago facility and they agreed to take Andrea as a
patient. BUT, St. Luke's then told us that the
Chicago facility doesn't have the equipment necessary
to take care of Andrea's medical needs. I can't help
but think that they did this to get the media off of
their backs and maybe let this die down in the press.
They are under intense scrutiny by the right to life
groups, because of this.

Right now, we are trying to get some assurances from
them that they won't withdraw life support from Andrea
on Sunday, but they are not forthcoming with those
assurances.

Melanie

Wow. Just--wow. How could they be that cruel?

[faithnotgreed]

25. just beyond comprehension

i know we dont have ALL the information but even half of it looks to be incredibly compelling

the heart - even the brain - doesnt often win when its up against money but we surely have to try

[stop the bleeding]

Question - I am late on this, but seriously where is Frist when all

of this happening.

Isn't he a Doctor and didn't he call an emergency session on Easter last year?

Has anyone tried to call his office?

[knitter4democracy]

29. I haven't, but I think that the RTLers have.

Honestly, I'm working on my hubby to take her and get her up here.

[BrklynLiberal]

50. Kicked and recommended !

[AzDar]

26. kick.

[julialnyc]

27. I'm so sorry.... such a difficult situation

I will call and pass this info along. It's important that we call in large volumes so that they don't think they can escape the weekend news.

[Saphire]

28. I may be flamed here, but I say let her go...if there were a chance

of her recovering, I don't believe a hospital would just pull the plug. Sorry, I just don't. There must be more that we are not hearing. I really feel sympathy for the family involved..I know how hard it is to let go of a loved one, but sometimes it's the kindest. Obviously, no other hospital has the means or will to keep this woman alive.

[knitter4democracy]

31. That's fine--you are entitled to your opinion.

There are doctors who disagree with the ethics committee's assessment, and they've met her and read her entire chart.

[SeattleGirl]

34. From what I understand, Andrea's situation is different than Terri's

was. There is a link in this thread to the original thread about Andrea. Please read it.

[DearAbby]

35. Not to start anything...

But don't you think that should be left to the person laying in that bed? What I gathered, is that it is Andrea's wishes to LIVE. The patient has asked to remain on life support, she is the one laying in that bed attached to the life support, maybe she should have a voice in the decision. ;)


:rant:


I used to joke in full sarcasm about how a patient would be laying in the bed and watch the nurse come in, unplug the machine, detached the tubes, calmly roll up the cord, wheel the machine out the door as the patient is laying there gasping for air. That they would do that to a patient that is aware, and against their most desperate wish to LIVE, they would still be callus and cold enough to "Kill" for money.

GAWD DAMN IT! It was never meant to really happen...that was my sarcastic worst case scenario

[MuseRider]

41. I worked in an ER and saw that done.

The doctor determined, before we could even test the patient, that she was not salvageable. She was awake, coherent but could not breath with out the ET tube and the ventilator we hooked her to. He pulled the damned thing out, she grabbed his freaking arm and he still pulled it out. She coded immediately and we could not save her.

[DearAbby]

48. My God

what a bastard, he murdered that patient. :wow:

We have to do something, this can not continue. a human life should not ever become a bottom line $$$

NEVER

[PublicWrath]

68. How horrible, how horrible.

Another DUer posted some links to articles on futile care laws in Texas and California, and I am sickened by what's being done to these most vulnerable of patients and their families.

We've got to take a stand against these laws, or at least give the patients greater safeguards. About four years ago, Sen. Specter introduced a health care bill with a "futile care" clause. The insurance companies will keep pushing for these laws to go national unless we act soon. These laws are heading to the "Soylent Green" level of public policy and there are terrible things in store if we don't fight this trend.

When I think of old people in wheelchairs sitting in the Louisiana sun for days with no water or care and helpless patients desperate to breathe having their life yanked away because of bush......'Compassionate conservatism' is an obscene fraud.

[bamapachyderm]

90. futile care laws SUCK

20 years ago, what they're doing now would have been unheard-of. Now it's routine.

*spit* Arlen Specter *spit* doing that doesn't surprise me in the least. He's someone we can all flame (I'm a Republican, btw--and you know what most of us think about him).

And yeah, the sick and disabled are the ones with EVERYTHING to lose. I just wish I'd see more activism w/r/t these issues from the disability activists. The problem is, they don't have power like the pro-choice and pro-life groups do (for example). Most people just don't care about the disabled issues unless they are sick/disabled themselves or otherwise have a personal interest in them. And that's not even a left/right issue, that's just PEOPLE. People say "I wouldn't want to live like that" and similarly awful crap, but they simply don't know until they're faced with it themselves, and too many people take their good health as a given, not realizing it could be THEM or their children (or whatever) in that situation tomorrow.

It's not compassionate by any stretch of the imagination.

(And you know I'm practically bursting to give some background about the evolution of the TX law, after a week of hanging out around here! I'm not gonna invite trouble, though.) ;)

[PublicWrath]

129. Hi there,

(I'm so sorry I ripped bush on this thread, I just wasn't thinking. I am so grateful for the efforts of people like you, fighting for these families.)

I was so sad to hear that the transfer didn't work out. This poor family has been through so much already. I've checked this morning's update and it sounds like she's getting a little better and there is still a chance she may make it, if she's allowed more time. I sure hope it works out.

I didn't know about the 'futile care' laws until a couple of years ago. Even then, I didn't dream such steps could be taken in cases like Andrea's. There has been a gradual lowering of the threshold of medical 'futility', I guess. It seems to me that if insurance companies are able to use such leverage in determining care, we'll eventually see patients classified as terminal, just so the insurance companies can avoid paying for lifesaving surgeries.

Once classified as hopeless, the patients seem to be effectively trapped; they can't get transferred to other in-state facilities. This virtually insures that patients who are tagged as terminal rarely survive to prove the prognosis wrong. Therefore, we can't really know how many times the patients might have made it with continued care. The families are already in anguish because their loved ones are sick and are forced to battle with the system, too. It's not right.

(Again, I'm sorry I got partisan on this thread. As far as putting these laws in place, I'm sure there has been plenty of participation from dem lawmakers, too. Things sort of sneak up on the public sometimes, and I don't think it would tolerate such policies if people knew that insurance companies have a silent vote in determining the endpoint of care. Thank you for supporting Andrea and her family.)

[PublicWrath]

131. On re-reading my post, I should have said insurance companies have

a "quiet vote", rather than a "silent vote". It seems they are quite powerful in terms of affecting hospital decision-making on indivdual cases.

[mirandapriestly]

124. My God.nt

[sandnsea]

38. If somebody were blocking you from exercising that choice

most of us would be right beside you too. That's the point, it's the families choice, not the government's and not yours.

[Saphire]

39. true enough.

[radfringe]

104. got that right

it is choice

If a person wants to live, extrordinary measures and all - then they should be allowed to live

If a person doesn't want that kind of life (for whatever reason) - they shouldn't be forced to do it

it's not up to the GOVERNMENT to make that decision - it's up to the patient and their families

I've been in that position twice with relatives. In one case, no extrordinary measures were taken. We told the doctors to do what they had to do to adhere to the law, but no above and beyond. this was with grandmother. She recovered for a few days, and then passed on her own.

In the second case - yes the relative wanted to live - machines and all. She lasted a couple of weeks before even the machines couldn't keep her alive.

As for me - if there's no hope of recovery, and the only thing is keeping me alive - then pull the plugs. I make this choice - not because I don't want to live that way, but rather because I don't want to drag out the pain and anguish of my partner/family. And if I'm that far gone - I wouldn't know the difference anyways - so let me go.

but the point is - CHOICE

and it's not up to me to decide for someone else's family what their choice should be

[Dorian Gray]

42. I hear you,

but in reading all the threads, it was the woman's explicit wish NOT to be taken off of life support. We can NOT go ignoring the wishes of the ill. It is inhumane and unhuman.

[mondo joe]

45. I feel conflicted about it myself.

If there is medical concensus that a condition is hopeless, and if the care is using resources that could benefit other cases, it doesn't sit well with me.

That doesn't mean I have a solution.

[knitter4democracy]

53. There isn't medical concensus, though.

There's another doctor involved who disagrees, my hubby is looking to take her in up here, and only the ones who agree are the original attending, one surgeon, and the ethics committee (who only knows what they're told about a patient).

[mondo joe]

61. Concensus doesn't mean unanimity. That would almost

never be the case. But in any event, I was talking about it as a hypotthetical moerso than anout this particular case.

[knitter4democracy]

62. I'm sorry--I misunderstood.

I understand about medical concensus. I've been with my hubby since he was a pre-med and helped him study for his med law course in med school and read all his journals. I get it. The reality is, though, that the patient has the right to decide and always should.

[liberalla]

65. Any updates?

What's the latest?

[knitter4democracy]

75. It's not looking great.

I'll post when I know more.

[DearAbby]

69. Even if there is just a moment of life left...

Shouldn't it still be up to the person attached to the life support to take those fleeting moments?

When we start unplugging people that we deem worth more dead than alive, what a slipery slope we go down. When will they deem it cost effective to rid society of the disabled, the mentaly ill...on and on and on.

these choices should never be because of $$$...it is too dangerous.

[progressivebydesign]

82. If you're in Texas, you HAVE to know about "futility" law.

And the basis of this law, that mr. prolife Gov. GWBush signed, is ECONOMIC. It says that a hospital can pull the plug if there is no more money to care for the patient available thru their insurance and they think the case may be futile. Were you not around when they did this to that poor little boy in Texas? It's a barbaric law.. and Andrea is NOT brain dead.

[Iowa]

128. Yes, it is economic...

It's all about money. And what is deemed "futile" today will be chiseled, tweaked, and redefined until the insurance industry is satisfied. And all the money they divert from health care for our most vulnerable citizens will go into the pockets of CEOs while insurance rates continue to rise.

My child would have been a "futile" case 25 years ago. He is now a happy, healthy adult. This type of thing happens all the time. In the future (unless we stop the insurance industry) people like my son will be dead unless their families are wealthy. The happy endings will belong to the wealthy.

If the GOP is forced to choose between money and life - they will always choose money over life. The Democratic party is the true pro-life party. It always has been. Dems who switched to Republican due to pro-life issues (and there are many) have been duped.

K&R for Andrea.

[knitter4democracy]

32. Everyone--pray, send good vibes, think good thoughts.

I'm working on my hubby to get her up here, either as his own patient or as a patient of the residency program in the town just west of us. We're not giving up yet.

[crispini]

33. Oh NO! K&R!

:hug: For Melanie and her family.

[IndyOp]

36. I called. I asked them to ignore Texas State Law and

follow a 'higher law' -- O8)

[SeattleGirl]

37. Did you use the number posted a little farther up the thread?

And did you ask for any particular person or department? I'd like to call too.

[IndyOp]

46. Yes - I used the number on the thread above...

I told the person who answered (switchboard) that I wanted to leave a comment about the Andrea Clarke case and she connected me with 'media relations' or 'public relations' -- something like that. I got an answering machine and left my comment on the machine. I left my name, home town, and thoughts about the case and the futile care law.

Go for it SeattleGirl! :thumbsup:

[SeattleGirl]

49. Thanks, I will!

:thumbsup:

[Chimichurri]

40. I just emailed KO and all of my local newspapers your story -

maybe if others followed suit, we could shed light on this.

Here's KO's email that I sent the plea to:
[e-mail]

[helderheid]

43. kick

[MuseRider]

44. Late to the discussion today but

this sounds almost like kidnapping in a small way. I used to work in a hospital and this is unreal. Has anyone contacted Michael Moore? Isn't he doing something about health care right now?

I am so sorry, I will make a call for you. I will also look when I get back home at any other thing that can be done. This should be up to the patient, in this case a competent patient WITH insurance, and the family.

[julialnyc]

47. CONTACT MICHAEL MOORE!!!! HE'S DOING A FILM ON THIS SUBJECT

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=193


The last thing any hospital would want would be him showing up. Lets all write him!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

51. I just remembered!

I now Michael Moore's research assistant! I'll try to get this to him ASAP.

[knitter4democracy]

55. They are helping.

What's really cool, the right-to-lifers and Michael Moore's people have all been working on this. If that isn't a sign of the Second Coming, I don't what is. :)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. Phew!!

I just fired off a note to Dave before I checked back on the thread. Glad to hear they are involved. Somehow I don't think the hospital wants Micahel Moore and his camera poking around. :D

I'm keeping my fingers crossed....

[knitter4democracy]

60. Me too.

I'm hoping the hospital admins up here do the right thing and get her transferred up here where she can get good care.

[file83]

66. My 98 year old grandmother had to check into the hospital because

she got an infection on her foot. This was at UCLA medical center in Santa Monica...

Anyway, the doctor never actually SAW my grandmother with his own eyes. He just looked at the x-rays and suggested amputating her foot! She's 98 years old! The hospital then sent down someone with a walker to give her "physical therapy" - my grandma broke her hip and hadn't walked for 4 years!!!

Hospitals are great for big surgeries (where they will make a lot of money) and for common medical emergency injuries - but for the the elderly or sick that don't promise to make the hospital a lot of money - they just don't seem to fucking care at all.

[knitter4democracy]

77. As my hubby says, every family should have a doctor in it.

It's for times like these. Trust me, they don't dare jerk around a doctor's family, and when they try, they stop after a bit of dust kicking. Of course, it's not perfect, as I was assaulted last year by a radiology tech, but I got a little bit of justice after going through the channels.

[liberalla]

63. I emailed him on Tuesday about this...

... and just emailed him again.

[knitter4democracy]

52. Another update--good news of a sort.

I just got this from a reporter working on the story:

St. Luke's has agreed not to pull Andrea's life support at least until Tuesday. On Tuesday, a committee of doctors from St. Luke's will meet to discuss how to proceed with Andrea's case. Andrea's new doctor--a doctor who shares our values about the sacredness of life--will take over her care on Tuesday and will fight for her right to live.

There is another thing: my husband is working on this after he's done rounding in the hospital tonight. I heard from a social worker at St. Luke's, and it sounds like they are still interested in transferring her even all the way up here. Hubby's going to call her back, talk with the attending, and start working on the hospital here to take her in. It used to be a Catholic hospital, so we have a chance that they'll listen to reason.

[Suich]

54. Thanks for the update!

What a roller coaster...I can't imagine what the family is going through.

[knitter4democracy]

56. Melanie and I cried on the phone earlier.

I get the impression she doesn't do that easily, and neither do I. *sigh* This is just unbelievably awful. I hope my hubby can help out, even in a small way.

[veness]

58. K & R. n/t

[roseBudd]

67. Has anyone thought to contact the Schiavo family?

[ananda]

70. In this case I believe it was..

.. the patient herself who expressed the wish to remain alive.

This case thus bears no relation to that of Sciavo.

Sue

[roseBudd]

71. It doesn't matter, Schiavo's bring fundie publicity, if the fundies want

the culture of life the RW echo machine will get involved and then this "George W. Bush Futile Care" law will get the publicity it deserves.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[bamapachyderm]

92. They're working it

It's on their website (Terrisfight.org), and friends of mine who know them have spoken with the Schindlers.

[roseBudd]

107. Right my bad, I should have said Schindler's

[ronnykmarshall]

132. Good

as much as I disagree w/ Terri's parents, if they really believe in what they stood for I hope they can use their influence to help.

[knitter4democracy]

76. Already done.

My friend who's a chapter president in Right to Life knows them and contacted them earlier in the week. They've contacted Melanie and her family's lawyer, and they're offering help.

[hwmnbn]

72. I'll keep this kicked.......

This is emotionally draining for me. I can only imagine what Melanie and her family are going thru.

And to knitter4democracy and your hubby, I can't tell you how your actions have moved me. I love you guys! :grouphug:

[Obamarama]

73. I disagree with this family's choices/actions...

But I hope they succeed in what they are trying to do.

I feel sorry that the woman has not come to a place where she can accept her own imminent death. From what I have read, it sounds as if she has little chance of survival without constant life support. Who on earth wants to live like that? I know I wouldn't, or at least I suspect I wouldn't

However, it is the patient's and the family's choice, and as ridiculous and as hopeless as the situation sounds, I still hope the family gets their wish. We cannot allow government to decide for us when/how/if we die and under what circumstances. That is a slippery slope I don't think we want to go down, and it's one that has already been breached.

[Janice325]

74. Kicked.

Please keep us informed.
Good luck.

[SeattleGirl]

79. Kick

[knitter4democracy]

80. My hubby can't help.

:cry:

Andrea's just too sick to make the trip up here. With the meds she's on, she'd have to have an RN and a respiratory therapist both be with her the whole way--and even then, there's too big a chance she'd die on the way.

This was my last good idea. :cry: I can't think of anything else to do that will actually help. I'm so very sorry, Melanie. I'm so very sorry.

[coffeenap]

81. You have been amazing and done everything you possibly could--

you are a wonderful human being. This is so painful and so sad. You have the respect and empathy of hundreds of us. :hug:

[knitter4democracy]

83. It wasn't enough, though.

:cry:

It's not about me or my hubby, as amazingly wonderful as he really is. It's about Andrea and all those who love her. She deserves better than this, and I just can't think of anything else to do now. The press hasn't really picked up this story. The politicians don't want to touch it. The doctors know she's too sick to move and don't want to get mired in a difficult situation.

I'm all out of ideas.

[progressivebydesign]

84. You are an angel to have done so much, and also your husband.

You have moved mountains for a total stranger in need, and brought together people that would never believe they could unite for a cause. You could only do as much as Andrea's condition would allow... The law is just unbelievably barbaric, and your work and the work of others on this have exposed the cold business decisions being made in Texas hospitals, of that you can be proud.

I hope and believe that the new doctor on Tuesday can convince the others to continue treatment for Andrea, as she wants. But right now, I know how much you're hurting.. and I'm sorry for that. I'm just so sorry... :grouphug:

[knitter4democracy]

114. I needed that, thank you.

I am still hurting today just because I can't do more. I am praying for a miracle at this point.

[REP]

85. Since this is about CHOICE

How about contacting someone on the Pro-Choice side? After all, the so-called 'right to lifers' don't have much of track history of winning (or being right on the law).

[jbnow]

118. They are already helping,

they have been.

[faithnotgreed]

94. youre beautiful knitter

you and your husband

thank you so much for your love
thats always more than "enough"

on edit: i hope you know i dont want to minimize at all how powerfully this has impacted you
thankfully its not over yet since as youve said there is a new doctor on the horizon

take good care of yourself

[bamapachyderm]

95. you have been a Godsend, knitter

Don't feel bad, k4d, you have been incredible. To involve yourself and your family in it has been positively angelic.
:hug:


Let's think...we should start massive emailings to some of the news organizations, and focus hard on one in particular who won't be able to ignore the pressure.

Anyone know offhand of any centrist-to-conservative major Texas newspapers? I'm only saying go in that direction because of the right-to-life angle, not because of any personal bias. Smaller ones are doing stuff, but they're not picking up traction.

And what sucks is it's now Saturday. Weekend news cycles suck.

I'm going to post government contact info, too. (below)

[knitter4democracy]

109. The Houston Chronicle's been doing a good series.

I can't understand why no one else has picked up that series.

I'm going to take a day to regroup and then start hitting the phones and e-mail again.

If anything good comes out of this, I hope it's a massive change to the law. Ten days isn't enough time for the families, and they need to make a provision that hospitals and doctors can't all collude and refuse to accept a patient with that designation.

[Suich]

86. Hey, knitter....don't beat yourself up.

You did what you could and that's what counts. There are a lot of people involved so there is still a chance something good could happen. It
looks bleak but I'm still thinking positive thoughts.

Thanks for doing what you've done! :hug:

Susan

[midnight]

87. It is almost midnight , but I will call the hospital tomorrow.

Andrea is a heart patient who is being disconnected from her life support systems. Is Andrea diagnosed as brain dead?

[bamapachyderm]

88. No, she isn't

She has endocarditis, she's drugged, but she is definitely not brain damaged, unless you count mobility issues as such. She WANTS to live.

Did you see the original threads? (They're linked above.)

[moobu2]

105. One of the complications of her open heart surgery

Was bleeding in the brain (stroke). Andrea evidently incurred significant brain damage.

The Hospital said she was minimally conscious and in "substantial pain and suffering."

She’s on a respirator, which is keeping her alive (life support) and sedated.

Since the family hasn’t given the hospital written permission to talk about Andrea’s case in more detail, which is required by law, the hospital cant say anything beyond that. So we're mostly getting a one sided story.

[knitter4democracy]

111. It's more complicated than that.

She's being kept sedated, not because of the vent, since she's been trached, but because they say she's in severe pain from the bedsore and kidney failure. They never asked Andrea what her pain level was, though, as far as the family knows because they never heard anyone ask her in all the time they've been with her.

Andrea, when not out from the pain meds, was mouthing words and full sentences that made sense, even according to the medical file. She definitely had loss of some motor control, but that seemed the extent of the damage. In keeping her sedated, it's hard to know what's really going on there.

Andrea's heart is having trouble, which is making everything else have trouble. I'm not saying she isn't very ill--she is--but it should still be up to her and her family when it's time to turn off machines.

[knitter4democracy]

110. Not at all. She's very ill, but she's not brain dead.

Her directive was to stop everything if she were brain dead, but she isn't. That's what the hospital is overriding.

[bamapachyderm]

89. EMAIL from Lanore Dixon (Andrea & Melanie's other sister)

I got this today from Lanore Dixon, the other sister:

This afternoon, twenty minutes before Andrea was due to be transported by ambulance to the airport, her doctor (or rather, the one filling in for her doctor who has gone on vacation this week--how VERY convenient!) came into her room and informed me she would not be transferred to the Chicago facility after all. After questioning the doctor I learned that someone messed up--I don't know which end the foul up occurred, but this all goes to show the danger of being forced to choose a healthcare facility due to pressure of an ethics committee ruling... This so called LTAC was nothing more than a nursing home with dialysis machine in the basement. They had no ability to administer the medications Andrea requires.

Somehow, the blogosphere knew about the inadequacy of the LTAC before either the family or the hospital did--probably due to me posting the new mailing address where Andrea can recieve cards and letters. Don't use the Illinois address, folks!

While we're grateful that St. Luke's halted the transfer before Andrea was moved, I cannot tell you the stress this has put on our family. We are exhausted from this effort, but we will continue to fight for our sister.

St. Luke's has agreed not to pull Andrea's life support at least until Tuesday. On Tuesday, a committee of doctors from St. Luke's will meet to discuss how to proceed with Andrea's case. Andrea's new doctor--a doctor who shares our values about the sacredness of life--will take over her care on Tuesday and will fight for her right to live. Let us all hope and pray that the committee meeting on Tuesday is chaired by doctors who have a reverence for life and not like the St. Luke's ethics committee chair.

Please pass this info on.

I'm sorry I didn't get this posted here sooner--I thought you had the same info. I was hoping you might post a new thread.


(edit for fat-fingers)

[faithnotgreed]

93. hi bamapachyderm

i want to thank you for all your hard work and love
as i think you believe its of utmost importance to honor the wishes of the patient and in this case its clear that andrea says/said she wants to live


so i just wanted to say i appreciate your grounded manner your caring and your fight
i hope to see you around here even after andrea is doing much better in another hospital~

take good care

[bamapachyderm]

97. thanks!

:hi:

Imagine how surprised all the other wingnuts are going to be when I let them know how wonderful you all have been! I might have to make a rare appearance at FR and post about it. (I've posted WAY more here than there--they'll think I'm trolling! heehee)
:evilgrin:

[knitter4democracy]

115. :)

Now that's funny. :)

Thank you for everything you've done. If only we all could do more.

[knitter4democracy]

112. Thanks for this.

This sounds like what I heard from the reporter.

From what my hubby found out last night, Andrea is too ill to be transferred far. It was a good thing they didn't try to get her up to Chicago anyway--she might not have made it there, and then her family wouldn't have all been there for her.

The social worker last night said that the new doctor's pulled out after talking with the specialists. I hope she's wrong.

*sigh* I really hope the hospital decides to do the right thing here.

[bamapachyderm]

96. MORE PHONE NUMBERS / EMAIL

It's the weekend, so some of these may be iffy.

Senator John Cornyn
http://cornyn.senate.gov/index.asp?f=contact&lid=1 (scroll down, there's a form)

Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison:
http://hutchison.senate.gov/e-mail.htm (scroll down)

They got involved with the Schiavo case, after all. ;)



Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee:
http://www.jacksonlee.house.gov/feedback.cfm?campaign=jacksonlee&type=Let%27s%20Talk
Washington Office
2435 Rayburn Building
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]
[phone] Fax

Houston Office
1919 Smith Street
Suite 1180
Houston, Texas 77002
[phone]
[phone] Fax

Heights Office
420 West 19th Street
Houston, Texas 77008
[phone]

Acres Home Office
6719 West Montgomery
Suite 204
Houston, Texas 77091
[phone]



State people--these are important, but it's the WEEKEND:


Rep. Martha Wong (R - Houston), 512-463-0389

Senator Mario Gallegos, District 6 (Harris County/Houston)
http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/members/dist6/dist6.htm#Form (email)
[phone]
[phone] (fax)


Senator Jon Lindsay, District 7 (Harris County/Houston)
http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/Senate/members/dist7/dist7.htm#Form (email)
[phone]
[phone] (fax)


Houston Mayor Bill White: mayor AT cityofhouston DOT net
PHONE: [phone]

Mayor's Office for People With Disabilities
http://www.houstontx.gov/disabilities/index.html




Governor Perry: http://www.governor.state.tx.us/contact/#contactinfo

Contact the Governor by Mail or Telephone
Telephone

* Citizen's Assistance Hotline: [phone]
(for Texas callers)
* Citizen's Opinion Hotline: [phone]
(for Texas callers)
* Citizen's Assistance and Opinion Hotline: [phone]
(for Austin, Texas and out-of-state callers)
* Office of the Governor Main Switchboard: [phone]
(office hours are 7:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. CST)
* Citizen's Assistance Telecommunications Device
If you are using a telecommunication device for the deaf (TDD), call 711 to reach Relay Texas

Fax

* Office of the Governor Fax: [phone]



And for shits 'n' grins, Kinky Friedman draws a crowd (I think)
http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/misc/contact.html


If someone wants to post this in a new thread or do whatever with it, cool. I can't do anything but comment here anyway.
:)

[bamapachyderm]

102. And...

Someone at RWN suggested contacting the local Episcopal diocese:

...
However, the neighboring diocese is quite different and filled with pro-lifers who would be very distressed to see that an Episcopal hospital is so eager to murder its patients. Perhaps we need to involve them as well, it would be good to get more Texan advocates if possible:

Diocese of Fort Worth:
http://www.fwepiscopal.org/bishop/staff.html

by anglicanista on 2006-04-28 19:28:00

Bonus: Weekend hours don't matter! :P

[bamapachyderm]

99. Houston Chronicle article!

Full article: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3828539.html

(big) excerpt:

Hospital officials would not say how they will proceed with the case, which has ignited passions on Internet message boards and drawn harsh criticism of the law and St. Luke's position.

"I'm so exhausted, I don't know what to think now," said Lanore Dixon, Clark's sister, who has led a campaign to stop the hospital. "It shows how dangerous it is to make decisions under the gun like we did Thursday."

The family and St. Luke's agreed Thursday to transfer Clark to Glenshire Nursing & Rehab Centre, a long-term, acute-care facility in the Chicago suburb of Richton Park. St. Luke's told the family it would pay the entire cost of moving Clark, estimated at about $15,000, but only if the family decided by Thursday.

The deal was canceled Friday after Glenshire doctors realized Clark's condition was too complicated for the level of care they provide.

Thursday's announcement had appeared to defuse the controversy, which has raged in online forums for a week.

St. Luke's was flooded with angry calls about the plan to pull the plug on Clark, whose condition worsened after open-heart surgery in January and bleeding in the brain this month. She is on a respirator and is receiving dialysis.

The conflict dates to April 19, when Dr. Robert Carpenter Jr., chairman of St. Luke's ethics committee, wrote Dixon to say the panel had unanimously agreed with Clark's attending physician that the life-sustaining treatment being provided to her should be discontinued. He wrote that Clark was experiencing "substantial pain and suffering." (Remember, Melanie said the doctor is on VACATION now? What a jerk! --B)

Hospital officials hope to hold a meeting of Clark's doctors on Tuesday to reassess her case, Dixon said. Among those present will be Matthew Lenz, a doctor of internal medicine identified by Texas Right to Life as a candidate to take over the case. The group, which is supporting Dixon's efforts to keep her sister on life support, said Lenz does not necessarily agree the case is futile.

It is unclear what might come of the meeting — a short-term extension of Clark's life support and care; the scheduling of a new ethics committee meeting at which Lenz would advocate for Clark; or a complete revocation of plans to discontinue Clark's care.

Jerri Ward, the family's lawyer, expressed unhappiness that St. Luke's lawyers will not commit to any specific extension of the notice they already have given regarding plans to discontinue Clark's life-sustaining care. The state's futile-care law only requires that 10 days' notice be given.

As a result, Ward said she has not ruled out "filing paperwork" in a Harris County court early next week in an attempt to block St. Luke's plans.

[SeattleGirl]

100. Good! I'm glad this is getting some ink!

I'm calling the hospital tomorrow to add my voice to the chorus.

[knitter4democracy]

116. Man, this is bad.

This is what can happen when hospitals are in the position to override a patient's wishes.

Oh, and in defense of the first doctor, vacation time is usually planned a year ahead of time. It is in my hubby's practice. It's hard to figure everyone's time off, as everyone left at the office has to cover that doctor's work. That said, cancelling vaction time is easier than getting it quickly. We've done it before. My hubby's also stayed in touch while on vacation when he's had a patient in a rough spot. I think that the first doctor really just wanted to wash his hands of the whole case.

[elehhhhna]

117. OMG Be glad she'sn ot going to Glenshire...

my Grandmother died there after what we discovered was absolutely sub-par care. They have a baaad record.

[knitter4democracy]

119. That's a good thing, then, that it was stopped.

My husband frankly wasn't sure she could have made the trip, either. All in all, it was a good catch.

I'm so sorry your grandmother died there and in such a bad way. How horrible. :(

[elehhhhna]

120. bedsore capital of the chicagoland area. btw--

i am really impressed with you, knitter--always have been, as you weigh in with a knowledgeable perspective on this type of issue. You & Doc Knotter are good people.

Thanks for all you do for the DU community.

[knitter4democracy]

122. I just wish we could do more.

This is such a horrible situation. I cried all day yesterday, I think. Today, I'm just mad again. I can just begin to imagine how awful it is for her son, for her family to go through this horrible ride.

[LeighAnn]

101. Accepting donations anywhere?

This all sounds very resource-consuming.

~*Peace and Blessings*~ to you and your family.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

106. Good question - Prayers & a lit candle here for Andrea & her family

[knitter4democracy]

113. Not that I know of.

I know Melanie's been reluctant about that. I don't know how this is all going to work out.

[mirandapriestly]

126. Yes, I hate to ask, but how much is needed?

It's probably astrononomical,. It's awful if this all comes down to money,i.e: a wealthy person would remain alive

[knitter4democracy]

121. I started a new thread with the latest that I know.

Please check that for the latest news.

[terip64]

123. link to thread?

[hiley]

125. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1056998&mesg_id=1056998

[knitter4democracy]

130. *Slaps head*

Sorry. Here we go:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1056998&mesg_id=1056998

[ronnykmarshall]

133. For anyone that faxed President Carter ...

if you have a sample and/or summary of Andrea's case, please post it. I'll be happy to cut and paste it and fax the President myself as well.