Do you realize that China owns 50% of our treasury bills?

[Erika]

Do you have any idea on how this affects our dealings with China? Well, guess. W has sold this country out completely without a 2nd thought.

On the bright side, we don't have to worry about a war with China. W has seen to it they will win.

Paul Harvey came up with the 50% figure. He's as right wing as you can get.

[bluem]

1. Do you know how long?

n/t

[Erika]

3. Paul Harvey announced it about a week ago

Maybe you can find it as his web site.

[bluem]

9. thanks,

It's greatly appericiated...:)

[Robbie Michaels]

2. Yes

They can bend us over their knee and ask, "Who's your daddy?"

Thanks, Shrub. :grr:

[Erika]

4. This needs to be known

We went from a surplus economy to China owning 50% of our treasury bills.

W is a corporate globalist. He never talks about helping the American worker. He's never been there and doesn't care.

[madrchsod]

5. don`t blame bush.

this sell out has been going on since the mid 70`s. every president has done nothing to stop it. but look at this way, the chinese society cannot exist at it`s present level unless the us remains healthy.

[Erika]

6. We ran a surplus under Clinton

What don't I understand?

[Erika]

8. So corporate America and Corporate China depend on

each other? Help me understand.

And where does the worker come into play?

Thanks.

[Robbie Michaels]

11. Psst! Don't Say That

The right will blame Clinton! :hide:

[Old and In the Way]

18. I remember the 1st experience I had with outsourcing.

GE Industrial Motors. They moved their production to Mexico in the early 80's.

It's been going on for a looong time.

[NewJeffCT]

38. In the 70s & 80s it was Japan, however

Now, we need China to buy our debt because the government spends more than it takes in on a daily basis.

[Toucano]

7. I question Paul Harvey's figures.

I think the UK holds most of the U.S. treasury bills, although China's share is increasing.

Maybe he meant China has increased their holdings by 50 percent.

[Erika]

10. No, he was firm in stating that China now held 50% of

our Treasury bills. He's an old guy who has built his life on trust of his broadcasts.

[Kagemusha]

12. I thought most of the US' debt was held by Americans.

If China holds 50% of the foreign debt, that's 50% of a much smaller pile.

I ignore his reputation.

[Erika]

14. I have heard that about 70% of our debt is now owned

by foreigners.

Let me know if you come up with different figures. Yes, Paul Harvey said 50% of the T Bills were owned by China.

[Toucano]

19. Well here's the confusion.

"Our debt" and T-bills are not synonomous terms.

I think Mr. Harvey was referring to this:

"By the end of February this year, China overtook Japan as the world’s largest holder of foreign currency reserves—$US853.7 billion, mostly from Chinese central bank purchases of US Treasury notes and other dollar-based assets."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/apr2006/chin-a10.shtml

China does NOT hold 50 percent of US treasury securities.

[anitar1]

24. I have read more than half a dozen articles about China

holding so many of our T Bills. Some of the articles have been posted here on DU. One just a couple of weeks ago. Also the NYT has referred to that fact in recent columns. I read 3 or so days ago that the Treasury is no longet posting info about how much money they are printing. * has declared that secret now. I had thoughts of Argentina years ago when their money was worthless. Scary. BTW , someone on DU posted the info about the Treasury info being shut down.Not a day goes by that the POS's aren't doing evil things.The T Bills were alarming , I thought.But who am I? I know little about financial dealings except for simple methods. But I do have common sense.

[Toucano]

16. LOL! He's an old guy who's full of shit!

He's frequently wrong. The fact that people trust him doesn't mean he is now or has ever been correct.

As of the end of Feb. 2006, Japan is the largest holder of US Treasury securities. China held 11%.

http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

[Erika]

17. Discuss it with Paul Harvey n/t

[Toucano]

22. Excuse me?

Does China hold 50 percent of U.S. Treasury securities or not?

You're the one who said in your OP, "Do you realize...". Then you cite a known bogus source and when evidence that contradicts you is presented to you say "Take it up with my bullshit source"?

Foul, Erika!

[anitar1]

25. It is OLD news. n/t

[Yupster]

31. If that's what he said, then he's not just wrong

he's wildly wrong.

Taking US debt as a whole, meaning T-Bills, T-Notes and T-Bonds, the pie can be divided roughly into thirds.

The largest third is more than 40 % and is owned by various US trust funds like the state Teacher Retirement Systems. Those are by far the largest holders of the US federal debt.

The second third is individual US investors. That's people like my mother who go to www.treasurydirect.com and buy US bonds, notes and bills for their individual portfolios.

The smallest third (more like a quarter) of the debt is held by foreign countries. Japan is by far the largest holder with about triple anyone else. China may have moved into second place recently. It was always England. Anyway, China's holdings would be more like 2-3 %, nowhere near any 50 % mark.

[Old and In the Way]

20. I think Japan holds the most US debt instruments.

China is second though and gaining fast. All that US debt is making it real difficult to re-evaluate the Yuan. If they'd float it, it'd wipe out 30% of the value of those holdings...something like $275BB.

[barb162]

13. I believe it; we have let that situation get completely out of

control with our free market rules everything approach. They just about own us

[Erika]

15. Yep, world corporatism

and the American worker is SOL.

[Poll_Blind]

21. As of February 2006 China owns 11-12% of foreign-owned US Treasury...

...Securities. But take a look at the numbers breakdown:

____________________________________________________________________MAJOR_FOREIGN_HOLDERS_OF_TREASURY_SECURITIES
_______________________________________________________________________________(in_billions_of_dollars)
_____________________________________________________________________________HOLDINGS_1/_AT_END_OF_PERIOD

_______________________________2006____2006____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005
________________________________Feb_____Jan_____Dec_____Nov_____Oct____Sept_____Aug____July____June_____May_____Apr_____Mar_____Feb_____Jan
Country_
_Japan________________________673.1___669.1___685.7___683.5___682.4___688.1___685.3___684.1___681.9___687.5___688.4___681.8___681.0___679.4
_Mainland_China_______________265.2___262.1___256.3___249.4___247.2___251.8___247.6___241.8___243.4___243.2___240.3___223.8___225.0___223.5
_United_Kingdom__2/___________250.8___245.2___234.5___223.9___188.7___184.1___175.5___161.4___146.9___132.4___124.4___121.8___111.0___101.0
_Caribbean_Banking_Centers_3/__94.1___105.1___118.3___122.4___114.7___108.0___107.1___104.8___110.6___131.1___133.6___142.0___107.0____97.1
_OPEC__________________________84.9____78.0____66.8____67.9____64.0____54.7____53.9____52.7____57.2____62.8____60.8____62.5____67.7____67.1
_Taiwan________________________72.5____72.3____71.7____71.9____72.5____72.4____72.0____72.4____71.3____71.0____70.7____71.5____68.7____68.4
_Korea_________________________69.2____67.6____65.4____65.3____60.2____60.5____58.8____59.0____59.4____58.7____55.9____57.1____53.1____53.6
_Germany_______________________65.1____65.2____67.1____65.7____64.4____63.5____65.0____62.0____61.2____61.3____60.9____56.1____53.0____53.8
_Canada________________________58.6____54.9____53.2____53.9____51.6____47.7____48.3____46.7____43.8____41.1____42.1____38.4____38.1____35.4
_Hong_Kong_____________________49.1____48.7____44.4____46.9____48.1____48.5____47.7____48.9____48.6____47.9____47.5____45.4____45.4____45.3
_Norway________________________44.2____42.7____37.1____39.5____35.0____33.4____41.9____43.8____45.4____37.8____29.9____17.0____33.8____35.2
_Luxembourg____________________41.3____40.2____40.6____41.6____41.6____42.5____43.1____41.7____43.7____45.1____45.9____42.9____43.1____41.8
_Mexico________________________40.5____39.3____37.9____39.5____37.8____34.9____35.7____34.9____31.9____31.2____31.6____32.5____33.0____33.5
_Switzerland___________________37.8____36.9____37.2____37.1____38.9____38.0____38.8____37.9____40.4____42.4____43.7____44.4____44.4____40.8
_Brazil________________________31.9____28.7____27.4____27.4____25.7____26.2____23.7____23.2____20.8____16.8____16.2____14.7____13.6____13.8
_France________________________30.9____28.0____26.8____27.2____25.9____24.4____24.4____22.3____19.1____28.0____22.3____25.1____27.1____21.1
_Singapore_____________________28.9____28.3____28.4____28.9____29.3____29.3____29.6____29.6____29.8____31.3____30.9____31.2____29.5____30.1
_Turkey________________________20.1____17.5____16.0____17.1____14.3____13.2____14.0____15.2____13.8____10.1____10.7____11.4____10.4____12.9
_Sweden________________________19.6____20.0____18.8____19.7____19.3____19.3____19.3____19.0____19.4____17.9____16.8____16.9____16.3____15.8
_Belgium_______________________17.7____17.3____17.5____16.2____16.0____16.2____16.3____16.1____15.9____15.8____15.7____15.3____16.7____16.8
_Italy_________________________15.2____16.0____17.1____17.9____16.4____15.5____16.2____15.7____14.4____14.5____14.8____14.7____13.9____13.1
_Thailand______________________14.4____13.5____12.7____12.7____12.7____11.3____12.3____12.1____12.8____13.3____11.1____12.1____13.0____13.3
_Ireland_______________________12.7____14.5____13.2____16.4____15.5____12.5____12.3____16.5____15.6____19.2____14.4____18.2____18.4____15.8
_India_________________________12.7____13.1____12.6____14.4____14.0____14.5____16.7____17.6____16.1____16.9____18.0____18.3____18.1____15.9
_Poland________________________11.5____10.4____12.7____12.5____12.2____11.9____11.1____11.2____11.4____11.8____11.9____11.4____10.6____10.2
_Netherlands___________________11.0____11.7____11.7____12.9____15.1____14.2____14.7____15.6____15.1____15.6____17.4____18.4____16.8____16.9
_Israel________________________11.0____11.2____11.1_____9.4____10.6____10.5____10.0_____9.2_____9.5____10.3____11.5____14.6____14.3____14.9
_All_other____________________148.3___146.3___147.7___147.5___142.7___134.7___136.6___133.9___128.6___127.7___129.7___129.6___129.0___125.0
_Grand_Total_________________2232.3__2203.8__2189.9__2188.7__2116.8__2081.8__2077.9__2049.3__2028.0__2042.7__2017.1__1989.1__1952.0__1911.5
__
Of_which:
_Foreign_Official____________1282.0__1265.2__1248.6__1255.9__1237.4__1228.0__1240.2__1235.1__1233.3__1241.7__1236.1__1227.9__1242.5__1238.3
____Treasury_Bills____________216.0___210.5___201.9___214.9___199.8___195.4___205.4___203.2___204.9___229.0___230.1___235.8___235.5___242.6
____Notes_and_Bonds__________1065.9__1054.7__1046.7__1041.1__1037.6__1032.7__1034.8__1032.0__1028.4__1012.8__1005.9___992.0__1007.0___995.7

Department_of_the_Treasury/Federal_Reserve_Board
4/17/2006

_1/__Estimated_foreign_holdings_of_U.S._Treasury_marketable_and_non-
_____marketable_bills,_bonds,_and_notes_reported_under_the_Treasury
_____International_Capital_(TIC)_reporting_system_are_based_on_annual
_____Surveys_of_Foreign_Holdings_of_U.S._Securities_and_on_monthly_data.
_2/__United_Kingdom_includes_Channel_Islands_and_Isle_of_Man.
_3/__Caribbean_Banking_Centers_include_Bahamas,_Bermuda,_Cayman
_____Islands,_Netherlands_Antilles_and_Panama.

NOTE: There is no breakdown of how much is owned in Treasury Bills, specifically.

A MUCH NICER-LOOKING COPY MAY BE FOUND HERE

Hope this helps.

PB
onedit: Changed subject to clarify foreign-owned debt.

[TexasLawyer]

23. Caribbean Banking Centers

Thanks-- I wonder who is buying under cover of the "Caribbean Banking Centers." More OPEC?

[Kagemusha]

26. Well THAT would actually make SENSE.

Maybe treasury bills are more liquid. Not my career path, and it's been a long time since I studied the issues involved.

[Toucano]

29. You are correct: Refresher.

T-Bills mature in 1 year or less.
Treasury Notes, 2, 3, 5 or 10 years.
Treasury Bonds mature in 10 years or 30 years.

All are Treasury Securities, and the media often refers to them collectively as bills.

[Kagemusha]

30. Thanks, I thought it was something like that.

So Paul Harvey was technically correct but highly misleading.

THAT fits what I understand about his reputation.

[anitar1]

27. Then why do I keep seeing articles claiming China hols so many T bills.

Seems as if something is going on that is a bit strange. I comb through many papers everyday.

[Poll_Blind]

28. I know what you mean. I'm going to spend a little time looking into...

....that before I turn in, tonight. If I find anything useful, I'll post it here.

PB

[sandnsea]

33. Foreign holdings is 52%

There's lots of links in here that could be useful. All kinds of tidbits that sound interesting, but I don't know anything about it.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2005/10/subsidizing_us_.html

[Kagemusha]

32. Post #29 there explains a lot.

I'm grateful for that little refresher, big help.

[Zynx]

35. T-Bills are the short term instruments.

They don't include the 5, 10, and 30 year bonds and even some of the others. China likes to have its money fast and loose.

[Dunvegan]

36. Poll_Blind's Spreadsheet in Courier...

Thanks for the excellent spreadsheet, Poll_Blind.

____________________________________________________________________MAJOR_FOREIGN_HOLDERS_OF_TREASURY_SECURITIES
_______________________________________________________________________________(in_billions_of_dollars)
_____________________________________________________________________________HOLDINGS_1/_AT_END_OF_PERIOD

_______________________________2006____2006____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005____2005
________________________________Feb_____Jan_____Dec_____Nov_____Oct____Sept_____Aug____July____June_____May_____Apr_____Mar_____Feb_____Jan
Country_
_Japan________________________673.1___669.1___685.7___683.5___682.4___688.1___685.3___684.1___681.9___687.5___688.4___681.8___681.0___679.4
_Mainland_China_______________265.2___262.1___256.3___249.4___247.2___251.8___247.6___241.8___243.4___243.2___240.3___223.8___225.0___223.5
_United_Kingdom__2/___________250.8___245.2___234.5___223.9___188.7___184.1___175.5___161.4___146.9___132.4___124.4___121.8___111.0___101.0
_Caribbean_Banking_Centers_3/__94.1___105.1___118.3___122.4___114.7___108.0___107.1___104.8___110.6___131.1___133.6___142.0___107.0____97.1
_OPEC__________________________84.9____78.0____66.8____67.9____64.0____54.7____53.9____52.7____57.2____62.8____60.8____62.5____67.7____67.1
_Taiwan________________________72.5____72.3____71.7____71.9____72.5____72.4____72.0____72.4____71.3____71.0____70.7____71.5____68.7____68.4
_Korea_________________________69.2____67.6____65.4____65.3____60.2____60.5____58.8____59.0____59.4____58.7____55.9____57.1____53.1____53.6
_Germany_______________________65.1____65.2____67.1____65.7____64.4____63.5____65.0____62.0____61.2____61.3____60.9____56.1____53.0____53.8
_Canada________________________58.6____54.9____53.2____53.9____51.6____47.7____48.3____46.7____43.8____41.1____42.1____38.4____38.1____35.4
_Hong_Kong_____________________49.1____48.7____44.4____46.9____48.1____48.5____47.7____48.9____48.6____47.9____47.5____45.4____45.4____45.3
_Norway________________________44.2____42.7____37.1____39.5____35.0____33.4____41.9____43.8____45.4____37.8____29.9____17.0____33.8____35.2
_Luxembourg____________________41.3____40.2____40.6____41.6____41.6____42.5____43.1____41.7____43.7____45.1____45.9____42.9____43.1____41.8
_Mexico________________________40.5____39.3____37.9____39.5____37.8____34.9____35.7____34.9____31.9____31.2____31.6____32.5____33.0____33.5
_Switzerland___________________37.8____36.9____37.2____37.1____38.9____38.0____38.8____37.9____40.4____42.4____43.7____44.4____44.4____40.8
_Brazil________________________31.9____28.7____27.4____27.4____25.7____26.2____23.7____23.2____20.8____16.8____16.2____14.7____13.6____13.8
_France________________________30.9____28.0____26.8____27.2____25.9____24.4____24.4____22.3____19.1____28.0____22.3____25.1____27.1____21.1
_Singapore_____________________28.9____28.3____28.4____28.9____29.3____29.3____29.6____29.6____29.8____31.3____30.9____31.2____29.5____30.1
_Turkey________________________20.1____17.5____16.0____17.1____14.3____13.2____14.0____15.2____13.8____10.1____10.7____11.4____10.4____12.9
_Sweden________________________19.6____20.0____18.8____19.7____19.3____19.3____19.3____19.0____19.4____17.9____16.8____16.9____16.3____15.8
_Belgium_______________________17.7____17.3____17.5____16.2____16.0____16.2____16.3____16.1____15.9____15.8____15.7____15.3____16.7____16.8
_Italy_________________________15.2____16.0____17.1____17.9____16.4____15.5____16.2____15.7____14.4____14.5____14.8____14.7____13.9____13.1
_Thailand______________________14.4____13.5____12.7____12.7____12.7____11.3____12.3____12.1____12.8____13.3____11.1____12.1____13.0____13.3
_Ireland_______________________12.7____14.5____13.2____16.4____15.5____12.5____12.3____16.5____15.6____19.2____14.4____18.2____18.4____15.8
_India_________________________12.7____13.1____12.6____14.4____14.0____14.5____16.7____17.6____16.1____16.9____18.0____18.3____18.1____15.9
_Poland________________________11.5____10.4____12.7____12.5____12.2____11.9____11.1____11.2____11.4____11.8____11.9____11.4____10.6____10.2
_Netherlands___________________11.0____11.7____11.7____12.9____15.1____14.2____14.7____15.6____15.1____15.6____17.4____18.4____16.8____16.9
_Israel________________________11.0____11.2____11.1_____9.4____10.6____10.5____10.0_____9.2_____9.5____10.3____11.5____14.6____14.3____14.9
_All_other____________________148.3___146.3___147.7___147.5___142.7___134.7___136.6___133.9___128.6___127.7___129.7___129.6___129.0___125.0
_Grand_Total_________________2232.3__2203.8__2189.9__2188.7__2116.8__2081.8__2077.9__2049.3__2028.0__2042.7__2017.1__1989.1__1952.0__1911.5
__
Of_which:
_Foreign_Official____________1282.0__1265.2__1248.6__1255.9__1237.4__1228.0__1240.2__1235.1__1233.3__1241.7__1236.1__1227.9__1242.5__1238.3
____Treasury_Bills____________216.0___210.5___201.9___214.9___199.8___195.4___205.4___203.2___204.9___229.0___230.1___235.8___235.5___242.6
____Notes_and_Bonds__________1065.9__1054.7__1046.7__1041.1__1037.6__1032.7__1034.8__1032.0__1028.4__1012.8__1005.9___992.0__1007.0___995.7

Department_of_the_Treasury/Federal_Reserve_Board
4/17/2006

_1/__Estimated_foreign_holdings_of_U.S._Treasury_marketable_and_non-
_____marketable_bills,_bonds,_and_notes_reported_under_the_Treasury
_____International_Capital_(TIC)_reporting_system_are_based_on_annual
_____Surveys_of_Foreign_Holdings_of_U.S._Securities_and_on_monthly_data.
_2/__United_Kingdom_includes_Channel_Islands_and_Isle_of_Man.
_3/__Caribbean_Banking_Centers_include_Bahamas,_Bermuda,_Cayman
_____Islands,_Netherlands_Antilles_and_Panama.

[Neil Lisst]

34. it's because we have had a trillion dollar trade deficit with them

during the Bush Reign of Error

[entanglement]

37. Boooo! Red China's out to get us!

Don't you think it's high time we dealt with our problems without blaming others?

[radwriter0555]

39. and you believe him because.....?

I see no economic analysts saying this.