are there any engineers out there

[cpousnret]

that can tell me if we can convert existing vehicles to e-85 fuel?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. you can, it costs a few grand

the big problem is getting the EPA to pass it, that's mucho $$$

from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85#After-market_conversions
After-market conversion kits, for converting standard engines to operate on E85, are generally not legal in U.S. states subject to emissions controls, unless you get your converted vehicle independently EPA certified. This is despite the fact that the exhaust emissions from any such converted cars are improved by utilizing higher percentages of ethanol in the gasoline blend. Unfortunately, EPA certification costs in excess of $23,000 and you additionally have to prove that your vehicle will maintain low emissions for at least 50,000 miles after the conversion. Most individuals won't give up their vehicles for the requisite 50,000 mile test period. Ethanol can be made out of pretty much anything grown on a farm and of what livestock eat. Likewise, conversion kit manufacturers generally don't certify their kits due to the onerous and expensive burden of these laws. The kits would have to be tested with every model vehicle for which they are to be sold. If a kit is already certified as described, the EPA Federal Test Procedure for an individual's conversion costs $750.00. One can request a reduction of payment of down to 1% of the car's added retail value due to the conversion. A minimum fee may apply if the value added is not seen to be very high.

Similarly, U.S. Federal law prohibits the manufacture of many such conversion kits for sale in the U.S. unless they are EPA certified. The origin of this ban dates to when conversion kits for using compressed natural gas were originally sold. The ban was enacted to prevent the sale of such conversion kits due to safety concerns. This ban on the manufacture of kits is at odds with the fact that these kits, once existing, are legal in all states but CA, and most states offer some sort of tax break for converting your vehicle (See tax breaks.) One Brazilian after-market kit is available legally in US States that do not have restrictive emission controls.

[cpousnret]

3. so if we were to switch to e-85

we would need to buy a new vehicle.

[cpousnret]

4. thanks

[Junkdrawer]

9. I should have guessed. Use the EPA to maintain Big Oil's monopoly.

Cute.

[rawtribe]

2. More information here:

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php

[cpousnret]

5. wouldn`t it be more feasible

to use e-85 even if it cost more,since the money would stay home.

[heidler1]

7. I happen to have a factory E-85 Ford Taurus and according to Mechanic's

Ilistrated if I used my E-85 option my gas MPG would drop from the current highway 28 to highway 17.
So I've never tried it and have no plans too.

[bananas]

6. Ask in the Environment/Energy forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=115

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

8. Conversion

Hold your horses on the the subject of alternative methods for the time being. Reducing fules emmisions and fule usage has not been a problem since the 1920,s ,by the 1930, s science was on the problem of corperate waste and automoative exhust .Scientist and inventors found solutions to the potential problems and also reduction of fule consumption down to a fraction with further development. As far as global warming the damage is done. Essientially this is to say the oil corperations have managed to control the inventions of independent scientific inventors and government for that matter since the 1920,s. But as it stands time is about to run out on that control.Hold your horses.

[Junkdrawer]

10. I ran across this this morning...(NO ENDORSEMENT THAT IT WORKS)...

http://www.abcesso.com/

[MADem]

11. Some already have the capability without any conversion needed

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

Ford, GM, others as well...list at link above.

[HamDon]

12. Sure, what do you need to know?

[OhioNerd]

13. Engines don't run on fuel, they run on heat.

Engines don't run on fuel, they run on heat. I know that sounds silly, but it's true. The fuel is just there to produce the heat.

Now, there are no technical reasons why any existing car can't be converted to run on alcohol, but there are a lot of practical ones.

Here's a big one: Unless you rebuild your engine to have about 40-50% higher compression, it'll be a waste of money and effort. Those E85 vehicles that you can currently buy are actually flex-fuel vehicles, which means they can run on gas OR E85, so they aren't optimized for alcohol and they get even worse mileage.

If you want me to I can go into a lot of technical details, but I don't want to expend the effort unless someone cares enough to want to read my babble.

My advice to you is to forget an alcohol conversion and take some practical steps:
1) Keep your tires slightly over-inflated for your vehicles weight. Do not exceed the max pressure on the sidewall though.
2) Keep your tuneup fresh. That means plugs, wires, filters and don't forget your transmission services. Just follow your owners manual or accelerate it by about 10%.
3) Run a quality synthetic in the lightest weight you can get away with. Newer cars, basically anything built in the last 10-15 years, can get away with 5w-30 or even 0w-30. Some cars even run 0w-20 from the factory. You must use a quality synthetic though. Mobil One at a minimum. Red Line, Royal Purple, Amsoil or any other fully synthetic designer oil. You can also do extended oil changes. You just have to remember to keep changing your filter every 3000 miles. The oil still gets dirty, you see.
4) If you have a manual transmission, shift sooner.
5) Drive in the first half of the gas pedal. However far you have to press the gas pedal down before it's on the floor, keep the pedal in the upper half of that as much as possible.

Mostly, don't worry. I've been through this twice before and the prices about double, then stabilize. Plus as a bonus, it drives the kind of changes that we could really use.

[cpousnret]

14. thanks,i`m just

interested for other reasons,like using other fuels so that we don`t have to import.i don`t like the greed of oil companies.i liked to fuck them the way they and bush are fucking us.i`m ret. military and i`m comfortable with my ret.also in closing saw where brazil is using sugar cane ethanol.peace