We just got a high school graduation picture with the kid holding a gun

[B Calm]

My wife's right-wing cousin who lives in Kansas, just sent us a picture of his son holding a glock. With all the high school shootings through the years, this is just plain sick!

[xultar]

1. His parents ought to be jailed. No reason for a kid to have a glock.

NONE!

I hope that photo isn't going in the year book.

[MercutioATC]

4. No reason?? Maybe he's a shooter...

What's wrong with a responsible high school senior having a Glock?

[walldude]

11. Responsible High School Senior??

Bwhahahahahahahahahaha :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Oxymoron.

[Occulus]

30. Target shooting.

Like, competitive.

It's not beyond the pale. IF he's trained and competent.

I'm assuming he's 18. Not only could he do it, but I doubt they would have wanted to try to stop him. Rights and all, you know? /halfsarcasm

[Mugu]

68. Federal law precludes an 18-year-old from legally possessing a handgun

Federal law requires a person to be at least 21 years of age to possess a handgun. 18-year-olds may possess any legal long gun.

[benEzra]

73. Federal law says you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun

but I did a search and couldn't find any prohibition against the possession of a handgun by an adult under 21 with a clean record. So, say, if a non-FFL legally transfers one to you at age 18 (if your state allows it), then I believe you may lawfully possess a handgun at 18, though I may be wrong on that. It was definitely legal when I was 18 (I'm 35 now), but the law may have been changed since 1989.

Certainly it is legal for an 18-year-old with a clean record to possess a handgun while under the supervision of one's parent, and if the handgun belongs to the parent, that would be legal even if possession by an 18-year-old isn't.

[Mugu]

81. Federal law precludes any person less than 21 years of age

from legally possessing a handgun (the Firearms Act of 1934 I believe, but it’s too late to look it up). There is no way to legally transfer ownership of a handgun to somebody that is less than 21 years of age. Persons less than 21 may fire a handgun under the direct supervision of a person 21 or older but cannot legally possess it. This is a Federal law, so state law is unimportant.

Children may do anything that is legal, including drinking alcohol with the supervision of a legal guardian. But, as with alcohol, minors may not indulge in these activities without direct legal adult supervision.

[benEzra]

98. It'd be the Gun Control Act of 1968 recently amended, if that's the case

I did a keyword search of the relevant statutes and found numerous prohibitions against handgun purchase from an FFL by an adult under 21, but nothing regarding possession. It is possible that the GCA '68 was amended by the Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 to make possession under 21 illegal, but I haven't found it yet.

The National Firearms Act of 1934 contains the restrictions on automatic weapons, over .50 caliber firearms, sound suppressed firearms, etc. rather than the age and purchase requirements.

[michreject]

104. Wrong

Federal law requires a person to be at least 21 years of age to possess a handgun. 18-year-olds may possess any legal long gun.

No such federal law exists. Cannot buy from a licensed FFL, but can buy a handgun from a private party.

[MercutioATC]

57. Sorry, but you're wrong.

There are plenty of responsible younger shooters. Suggesting otherwise is kind of prejudicial.

Was the high-schooler in the picture a responsible shooter? Who knows, but it's simply incorrect to take offense at the picture based on the supposition that younger shooters can't be responsible.

[walldude]

79. I was generalizing, and my generalization is correct

Most High School seniors are not "responsible" people. Nor should they be, that's what youth is all about, growing, learning, and partying. I could give a shit if this kid wants his graduation picture holding a gun. Whatever floats your boat. The fact of the matter is that a "responsible high school gun owner" is the exception to the rule, not the rule itself.

[MercutioATC]

107. But you're using applying generalization to an individual circumstance.

...and you're using that generalization as de facto "proof" that no high-school senior is capable of being a responsible shooter.

...and that's simply not correct.

[marions ghost]

97. Everyone knows

of cases where teenagers are not using guns 'responsibly.' Where you been?

Let's see, presonally in the last few years in my area I can think of a number of suicides, cases of threatening others with guns, various random shooting incidents by teens. One of the most tragic was a kid who decided to pass a handgun around at a party and 'didn't know it was loaded.' A friend was killed accidentally at close range. Needless to say it pretty much destroyed the kid who thought he would show off his (or some relative's) gun. And the incidents I'm talking about aren't related to drugs or gangs or criminal activity.

Teenagers often make bad decisions.

[MercutioATC]

108. I also don't know of many people who can responsibly tame lions.

Does that mean that lion handlers don't exist?

Nobody's saying that ALL teenagers are responsible. However, the post I'm responding to states that NO teenagers are responsible enough to handle a firearm. I don't agree.

[ColdWarVet]

8. Time to give up details...

Is it registered?

Has the kid taken gun safety courses?

Is he a competitive shooter?

If so, what's the diff if he has his clock and a girl has a horse she rides competitively? Or a star hoop player with a b-ball?

The details are important in this discussion...

[B Calm]

43. His dad has a gun dealership license and sells guns out of

his home.

[aikoaiko]

92. the horror. the horror

:sarcasm:

[JVS]

10. Jailed? That sounds a bit extreme

[xultar]

28. Endangering a minor. Sorry teens shouldn't have weapons.

[JVS]

31. People graduating from high-school are usually 18, thus not minors

[Occulus]

34. As an aside, that's another question I've always had

Does the stated policy of a school in any way become suspended for current students over the age of 18? For example, rules regarding mode of dress or wording on shirts?

[JVS]

35. I wouldn't see why. Maybe stuff like permission slips to do things...

but as far as I know most of the rules are not about parental permission

[Hippo_Tron]

80. No, you still need permission slips

Apparently there's still liability involved with everything even though people are 18 years old. If someone is over 18 but under 21 and drinks themself to death at a frat party, the college gets sued for failing to supervise, yup you guessed it... ADULTS.

Truth be told, I'm 18 and honestly I feel like in this society I don't have the right to be treated like a real adult until I turn 21. I was walking from my car the other day and some lady was handing out bible literature. She yelled to me "Hey son, why don't you take some reading materials." Normally I would've just said "no thank-you ma'am, not interested" but she called me "son" and considering that I'm technically an adult, I found that incredibly condescending. I smiled and took one of her pieces of literature, walked about five feet and slammed it into the trash.

I really wish that we would just make up our fucking minds about when we are going to recognize people as adults. I'm fine with 3 more years of childhood, but frankly that should mean that I can't get drafted and I can still be tried as a juvenile should I commit a crime. It should be all or nothing.

[LifeDuringWartime]

83. literature

when people like that approach me on the street i either ignore them or tell them to get lost. ive been harassed by too many larouches and fundies on my way to class to be polite in that situation. if it seems like they actually have something beneficial to say, i'll listen.

[Solo_in_MD]

47. No

The rules are the same. For example, you can legally smoke off campus if you are 18, but you still can not have tobacco products on campus.

[Pavulon]

77. I was issued

an M16 rifle and trained to operate heavy equipment by the ANG at that age (well a year older). The heavy equipment was far more destructive than the rifle.

More people were hurt with dozers and loading stuff on to HETs than with weapons.

Point is if the adult is mature there is no reason legally or common sense wise he should not be able to posses a handgun.

I know some 30 year olds who should not have a honda never mind a slingshot.

[Solo_in_MD]

12. Safe bet is wasn't in the yearbook.

though there are pictures of me in several of my yearbooks with firearms in the pictures. I was on the rifle team. One girl on my HS team got a scholarship to college for riflery. She almost made the Olympics. My high school still has a rifle team and its still well ranked nationally.

There is no need to get hysterical about the presence of weapons being held or used by teenagers under adult supervision. Its safe and legal. I would be more worried if he had a cigarette or Skoal tin.

There is nothing wrong with a him pistol shooting. Its a competitive sport, its even in the Olympics.

The Glock is a very common police pistol. Perhaps he is considering a career in law enforcement.

[aikoaiko]

93. Absolutely --- it should be a SIG.

:sarcasm:

[lonestarnot]

2. No computer? Just a glock... WTF!??

:shrug:

[CoffeeCat]

3. Was there a bloody baby dear slung over his shoulder?

Just asking.

;)

[SPKrazy]

5. Shot With A Glock?

a glock is a handgun

deer are usually hunted with rifles

a glock is for recreation or self defense, or both.

Kansas may have carry and conceal laws?

[kestrel91316]

55. Glocks are for offense, too, IIRC.

[MercutioATC]

58. So are bricks, if used in that manner...

:eyes:

[SPKrazy]

70. I'm All For Brick Control

too many damned bricks out there anyhow

[SPKrazy]

71. Lots Of Things Can Be Used For Offense

But we don't ban them

lots of people like guns, for sport, or hunting, or self defense.

[Solo_in_MD]

86. I once had an instructor who pointed out that the only weapon

a person truly has is their mind, and the rest was just tooling. Thought that was silly at the time, but now realize how right he was.

He also stated that you could make just about anything into a lethal weapon. Of course all the smart asses started calling out thing that they thought would prove him wrong, one of which was marshmallows. At that point he stopped the free for all and got out a set of briefing charts titled "How to kill with Marshmallows" Think he had a dozen or so ways, some nicer that others.

Truly anything can be an offensive weapon.

[Fridays Child]

16. I just *know* you mean "deer."

Right? :scared: ;)

[CoffeeCat]

32. Uh oh...caught by the grammar patrol!

Yikes! I can't believe I did that.

Sorry! Didn't mean to scare you.

;)

[TX-RAT]

100. Majority of fire arms owners, don't hunt.

[jody]

6. Why is it sick for a young boy/girl to hold a gun? Lots of Dem boys/girls

love hunting, competitive shooting, and recreational shooting and many have been trained in gun safety and self-defense.

That's why my party's platform says "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do." See http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

[B Calm]

44. It's sick because it's a high school graduation picture. Imagine

kids from Columbine High School posing with guns..

[jody]

45. Absent the picture, I do not agree with you. n/t

[aikoaiko]

94. imagine -- what would be the problem with a Columbine

student posing with a gun responsibly. Two jerkoff murderers shouldn't ruin a good hobby for the rest any more than kids killing kids while drunk driving shouldn't prevent kids from taking pictures with their cars.

[spindrifter]

7. This must have been a private picture--

I cannot imagine any yearbook publisher going for something like that!

[Tesha]

56. It's the latest thing. There've been several court cases litigated...

> This must have been a private picture -- I cannot imagine
> any yearbook publisher going for something like that!

Then you'll have to stretch your imagination because it's the
latest thing. There've been several court cases litigated over
this very issue in the last year or two.

One was litigated here in New Hampshire. The NRA litigated it
on Second Amendment grounds and has lost (so far), but it would
have been a slam-dunk win if they'd litigated on First Amendment
grounds.

Given the several that happened in quick succession, I wouldn't
be surprised to find out that there was an organized effort to
drum up these cases nationwide.

Tesha

[JVS]

9. Could you post the picture so we can judge for ourselves?

Is this like a yearbook picture or what?

[Solo_in_MD]

13. Would be interested to see if

the clip was in, if it was loaded, or if he had his finger inside the guard for a posed shot. All would be bad form.

[pocket]

14. Posing with a glock makes up for other, uh, "shortcomings"

Poor kid.

[Solo_in_MD]

15. Now I have to go find my old yearbook to see if there was a picture

of our team captain (Theresa) with her gun. Have to wonder what she was making up for...

[Clark2008]

17. If you go by the reasoning above you - her "big guns"

:eyes:

For the record, I don't own a gun, but I don't see why this is such a big deal. Like alcohol, if children are taught about them, that they exist, the dangers within and the reason WHY they can be dangerous, then the allure is zippo... gone.

[Solo_in_MD]

23. Agree on the education part

Teach them not to fear them or be fascinated by them is the best approach. I started early with my daughters in that regards. Also with alcohol and motorcycles (no, not at the same time)

The eldest wanted her own pistol recently. Makes quite an impression on the range when they see a young woman with her own custom 45. The younger one is also proficient, but is not that interested in firearms. However, she does some serious dirt biking riding. Both of them have a good handle on alcohol consumption.

[Nightflurry]

25. Hear, hear

Like Clark there said, teach them young and most of the wierd issues go away, like alcohol. I've been around guns quite a bit, and I own a few including two handguns. I'm only 20. A very high number of my friends have these wierd video game ideas about guns and it's very frusterating trying to get them down to earth on the subject. Usually a bit of lecturing from me and a few trips to the range and they're pretty sobered up on guns.

I shoot every week and am considering getting into competative shooting, and anyone can tell you I'm a nazi when it comes to safety. Thing is.. young people often just don't know anything about guns. They either believe they're cool video game toys or that they're evil and must be destroyed. Some education to move that to a happy medium would go a long way towards reducing gun violence.

Far as someone posing in a picture with a gun, there are one of two floating around of me with a gun I'm sure. I have no problem with that even IF it was in a yearbook. Of course, if he was being stupid and doing some silly gangsta poses and just being a general idiot then I'd think differently on that. If he uses the Glock for a serious hobby or competition then what's wrong with posing with it, even for a yearbook?

[northzax]

19. you already said that was a rifle

not a handgun. and anyway, I think we can all agree that, given the last decade's activities, that perhaps guns don't belong in anything associated with schools. It's simply poor taste. as part of a sport? sure. But the number of people for whom a handgun is the key defining element of their high school experience, as a positive thing, is not really that high. to combine that imagery, with a graduation photo, is in poor taste.

I had a cousin at Columbine that awful day, would you have thought anything was in poor taste if she had posed for a picture, in her Columbine Sweatshirt holding a gun?

[Clark2008]

22. I have to ask, though, when does life go on?

I completely agree with what you're saying about poor taste, but I also wonder when we move on and learn how to teach about things that can kill, but can also be enjoyable, with responsibility - from everything to cars to sex to guns to, heck, even regular sports.

FWIW, I live in the South and never even heard of a rifle team in high school - because it's a federal offense to have a gun on school property - and has always been a state offense in my neck of the woods. It's even against the law to fire a weapon in the city limits (other than for self-defense - you can own one, but you'd better not shoot it unless an intruder is threatening you).

So, how do we address this reasonably? I see nothing wrong with hunting, with competing with a weapon (it really does take skill) and with owning one for self-protection as long as you can assure that your child or his/her friends can't get to it without permission (which is why I don't own one. I don't have the capacity to house one responsibily just now).

My husband was in the Army and knows very well how to clean one, hold one, fire one and be responsible with it - and he's a flaming liberal. How do we teach our children about this without exposing them to it?

Oh, bother... I guess, ultimately, I'm asking how we make people better parents, which, alas, ain't gonna happen for everyone. :(

[Solo_in_MD]

26. You might want to check on the Federal Ban

I did a quick google and found:

http://eteamz.active.com/wtwrifle/
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/mustangrifle/


All current and using .22. I assume there is an exception to the Federal rules for "offical uses" such as LEOs, ROTC, and team sports.

Other school use only air rifles, which IIRC are also considered firearms by many ordinances, as well as paint ball in some jurisdictions.

[Solo_in_MD]

27. I disagree

I am a radical on this...I thing firearms should be taught in HS like drivers ed and sex ed, with the same opt out options. Course to including safety, legal, history, and practical, including basic use. End result would be a Hunter Safety Cert and a firearms training certificate that some states require.

- They are a fact of life in America (like cars and teenage sex).
- They need to be taught responsibly (abstinence or a reefer madness approach is a non starter)
- Rifle/Pistol teams reinstated (they are unisex BTW, and girls compete equally with boys)

We don't ban sex and stop sex ed due to sex crimes in the community, so why do we ban firearms and firearms training due to gun crimes? The Swiss and Israeli handle this well, I think we can too.

Please note that I have articulated this view during faculty meetings when I taught. It did get me talked about, but my contract was still renewed (they needed science teachers badly).

[Occulus]

33. That is a damn good idea- or would have been, some years ago.

I don't quite know how to word this; let me explain... I think it's still a good idea, but there are simply some places where it just cannot be taught, either because of social issues or lack of facilities. Politics is another major factor. I just think we should have been doing this all along and, if we had, perhaps our gun violence rate would be lower today than it actually is...

You're right, of course- guns are a part of American culture, and always have been, whether we like it or not. Gun safety and education courses ought to be at least elective courses, and there are enough ways to simulate actual firearms today that you could teach the habits while at the same time removing the potential danger.

I think this deserves a great deal of further thought- and I'd say its own thread as well. (You go ahead if you like- it's your idea in the first place :) )

[Solo_in_MD]

36. It damn near cost me my job at the time

While the administration was amused, some of my fellow teachers were not at all happy with my position and more than one stated they would try to have me expelled from the union (and thereby lose my job), for even suggesting what I did (and this was well before Columbine).

[northzax]

37. hey, he can wear anything he wants

it's still in poor taste. People can wear Duke Lacrosse tshirts in their graduation photos too, but you won't convince me that it's in good taste.

[Solo_in_MD]

40. As I recall HS students live to be tacky and show poor taste.

This is coming from a former HS teacher who is married to a current HS teacher. Have you seen some of the prom outfits? What about Senator George Allen and his "Confederate" past when he was a HS student in CA. Its just HS...they will out grow thier tastelessness and the adults should get over it.

Seriously, it can't be his official school pic, so its one he and his parents agreed to and had printed up. Its called choice, whether some find it tacky or not.

Remember that guns, even pistols are not inherently evil. I have a vision that it will turn out that this kid is a national jr champion and an Olympic hopeful, not that it would matter to some.

[slackmaster]

74. I've been saying the same thing for years

Parents should be able to opt their kids out of gun safety education, as they can with sex ed.

The hard truth is that most parents, even most of those who own guns, are not qualified to teach gun safety. I was lucky - My stepfather served in the Navy in World War II, and spent part of his post-war career as a rifle instructor. My brother and I got top-quality firearms instruction at an early age. I was 10 when I learned the rules of gun safety. They're so deeply engrained in my nervous system that I won't even "sweep" people with innocuous objects like walking sticks. Hand me a toy gun, I won't touch the trigger. People who haven't been trained tend to do all the wrong things.

Gun safety is really very simple, but it's mechanical behavior that needs to be taught and practiced before it will sink in.

[slackmaster]

75. The 19th Century called about your witty speculation

I have a large safe full of firearms, and I and my girlfriend can assure you I don't now have nor have I ever had any trace of, uh, "shortcomings".

[karlrschneider]

18. Can you scan & post the picture? Would be interesting to see.

thanks

[DanCa]

20. I don't know the kid or the parents

I am not going to give a knee jerk response to this.

[bahrbearian]

21. They also get to drive cars,, now that is sick!

How else are they going to learn how to do drive-bys.

[Poll_Blind]

24. At first I assumed it would be a rifle, for hunting game. There...

...are lots of rural places in America where this sort of thing would not be out of place. However a Glock, a handgun, just proves he has real penis/manhood issues.

My answer- Join the military! They're cranking out pacifists nowdays like gangbusters!

PB

[Solo_in_MD]

29. What if it was one these?

Would that change your view?

[northzax]

38. and what if it was one of these?

say, a Glock 39?

would that change your view?

how about one of these? hey, you didn't post a Glock, so I don't have to either. Since we're talking about a Glock, and they don't make competition target pistols, it's all irrelevant anyway, right?

[Solo_in_MD]

39. Those would all be fine by me

since I have no problem with handguns being properly used and am smart enough to realize that they are not manhood substitutes.

The prior poster seemed convinced that since it was a dreaded Glock (model unmentioned) that the student was compensating, without a shred of proof in the specific (the student) or general (every male who owns one) case. I wanted to see if their opinion changed if the H/W did. Given their clear lack of understanding about firearms, I would doubt it. The Hammerli looks pretty exotic so it must be evil (CA Legislative logic when it comes to firearms)

Gun ownership and particularly pistols is not prima facie evidence of sexual inadequacy, and repeating that lie often does not make it so any more than *'s claims about WMD in Iraq become more true with repetition.

Note also that Glocks are regularly used in competition, but not in Olympic style events. So is the Mac 10 pictured (in HL2) ;)

[northzax]

46. oh sure, yoru're smart enough not to think

they are manhood substitutes, but are other people? Anyone who poses with a handgun for a senior picture had better be a competitive shooter, otherwise they are trying to send a message about something. Senior photos are artfully created to show off what students want others to think is important about them. Sure, maybe the guy in front of a Mercedes is going to be a mechanic, but he probably just wants people to think he has a Mercedes. (yes, there was a kid in my high school class who posed in front of his father's Mercedes. It was so tacky it was laughable, and then the (by far) richest kid in the class (we're talking daughter of one of the originial tech billionaires) posed in front of her beat up Subaru Wagon, just to mock him. That was funny)

Think of it this way. Some people buy Lamborghinis because they like fast, beautifully constructed cars. Others just think they'll get laid more often. Some people buy Hummers because they go offroad, others to impress people. Some people carry guns because they are skilled in their use, others because they are afraid of something, and still others because they simply feel better having lethal force around. and anyone posing with a gun, or a fancy car, is trying to send a message. And it's usually not, "I am a skilled user of this weapon for the sake of it." Just because you seem to be a reasonable human being, doesn't mean everyone else is, you know?

[Poll_Blind]

52. Actually what I take offense to is having it in a school picture.

I just wanted to be clear on that. I'm all for gun ownership. Heck, I'm also for ownership of sex toys. However, appearing with either in a school picture denotes something not-quite-right with the photographee.

PB

[benEzra]

53. That Uzi is restricted by the National Firearms Act...

how about one of these? hey, you didn't post a Glock, so I don't have to either. Since we're talking about a Glock, and they don't make competition target pistols, it's all irrelevant anyway, right?

That Uzi is restricted by the National Firearms Act to military/police only, unless you can pass what amounts to a Secret-level government security clearance and get Federal permission (BATFE Form 4) to own one. No way a kid is going to be posing with that...

As far as someone holding a Glock "proving" they have penis issues, GIMME A BREAK. My wife owns a Glock 26 and shoots it damn well, recreationally, and is fully competent to use it defensively. Glocks are THE most popular pistol in the United States, and around 70% of police officers nationwide carry Glocks.

I suspect a majority of 18-year-olds in this part of the country (eastern NC) shoot, under supervision, and many own their own guns as soon as they are of legal age (18). I certainly did, as did most of the "good kids" my age.

[Solo_in_MD]

64. Its a CGI of a MAC-10 from HL2 (game) not the UZI pistol

IIRC there was a legal (semi auto only) version of the Uzi pistol sold for awhile in the US.

There also was the Cobray line of Mac 9/Mac 10 clones, semi auto/open bolt and questionable reputation for quality. Real easy selective fire conversion like most open bolt designs IIRC.

Damn, some of this stuff takes me back...

[benEzra]

66. Oops, you're right, it is a Title 2 MAC-10...

you can tell it's not a civilian Title 1 gun because it has a short barrel and a shoulder stock (big no-no under Federal law). Of course, I guess you can own a CGI version... :)

The non-automatic civvie Uzi lookalikes came in two configurations, either a 16" barrel and a shoulder stock, or a realistic-looking shorter barrel and no stock. To have a short barrel and a stock, even on a non-automatic gun, you have to have BATFE approval (six to eight month background check) and a BATFE Form 4.

[Solo_in_MD]

67. My memory weakens with age,

but I really want to recall there was a Uzi pistol in addition to the Carbine/SMG (the one that everyone thinks of when you say Uzi). Saw in gun rags in the early 80s, but never handled one. It was a direct competitor to the Ingram MAC series.

[benEzra]

72. You're thinking of the mini Uzi or micro Uzi...

The real deal (NFA Title 2 subgun versions) have very high cyclic rates due to the lighter reciprocating mass, making it very difficult to use, as I recall. Action Arms or Vector (I don't remember who) may have made a civilian non-auto version, I don't remember.

Ah, yes, found some info on Wikipedia (love that site!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi_submachine_gun

* Mini Uzi, 360 mm (14.17 in) long and basically a scaled-down version of the Uzi. First introduced in 1980, It comes with a side-folding stock and retains a small forward handgrip.

* Micro Uzi, at only 250 mm (9.84 in) in length barely larger than a standard pistol and about as small as the original Uzi design could be made. It fires from a closed bolt position and has a side-folding stock similar to the one on the Mini. The forward handgrip is completely eliminated. First introduced in 1986.

* Uzi Pistol, a semi-automatic version of the Micro developed for sale in countries where the civilian ownership of automatic weapons is restricted, such as in the United States. Externally, it is distinguished by not having a stock or a recoil compensator.

* Uzi Carbine, a semi-automatic version of the full sized Uzi SMG, with a longer 400 mm (16 inch) barrel. Was also generally available for sale to civilians in the United States prior to both semi-auto models being banned from import in 1994. New Uzi Carbines are still available from several American manufacturers as of March, 2006.

[Solo_in_MD]

87. Never thought to check Wikipedia

and all my gun rags from those days are long gone. That writeup sounds about right.

[northzax]

78. you used the word prove, not me

so you are saying that there is no chance that an 18 year old kid posing with a handgun is trying to send any sort of a message at all?

[benEzra]

102. In Kansas (or most of America), posing in a suit with a Glock

is about as unremarkable as posing in driving glasses with a Mustang or a BMW.

Now if this photo were posted on a web site along with a diatribe about how much he hates his teachers and those who pick on him, it might be "sending a message," definitely. But in the context described (James Bond style photo with a Glock), he's obviously having fun and trying to portray himself as looking like James Bond. My roommates in college and I once did a couple of James Bond photos using Beretta 92 lookalike water pistols as props, and I've got a ninja photo and a rock star photo (me cutting the rug with my roomie's electric guitar) as well. All in good fun. And Kansas isn't New Jersey.

Of course I can't say there's NO chance he's "sending a message," any more than I can say there's NO chance that a picture of an 18-year-old with his car on MySpace is "sending a message" that he intends to go street racing or drive drunk. But given the locale and the context, I think it's highly unlikely in both cases.

[aikoaiko]

96. Glock makes target pistols. geeesh so much disinfo.

http://www.glock.com/pistols.htm

[TX-RAT]

101. Extended barrel Glock 17 was made for competition shooting.

Never had one, nor would i. I personally don't like Glocks. Sigs are a far better choice in my opinion. Just something about plastic and pistols that just never hit me right.

[Poll_Blind]

50. Yes, absolutely! I would look at the matter entirely differently! n/t

PB

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Well, just as long as it wasn't a sign saying "Bong Hits 4 Jesus"

I mean, those kinds of kids are dangerous.

[ComerPerro]

48. people like that are terrorists

narco-terrorists.

I've actually heard that term used...

[Endangered Specie]

42. A glock... well its not like he was holding a *REAL* gun

:evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Where in Kansas?

Should I be afraid?

[B Calm]

60. Small town north of Wichita..

[TheFarseer]

51. my friend has his senior picture taken with a gun

He was dressed up in his hunting gear, with a rifle and his dog. I thought you were going to say something like that, but the glock takes it up a level, I think.

[benEzra]

54. Not necessarily...most gun owners (80%) don't hunt,

and there are two to three times as many handgun owners in the U.S. as there are hunters.

[B Calm]

59. He's pictured in a suit and tie holding the glock pointed up. Kinda

like James Bond...

[Radio_Guy]

61. Why hasn't this made the press yet?

I mean the Maine boy who posed with a gun in his yearbook got in the papers. I'm kind of surprised this hasn't made the news.

[Xenotime]

63. RW media backs the gun lovers too much.

[benEzra]

65. That made the papers because the school raised a ruckus

and wouldn't publish the photo in the yearbook, which a lot of people in Maine (and elsewhere) thought was idiotic. If I understand the OP correctly, this isn't a yearbook photo, just a family photo taken for the occasion of the son's graduation.

If he's graduated from high school and is 18, WTF would be newsworthy about him having a photo taken holding a gun, as long as it's not in a threatening context? He's old enough to vote, old enough to be sent to Iraq to fight, old enough to be charged as an adult if he commits a crime...and old enough to legally own a gun. He's an adult, not a child.

Somewhere around here, I have photos of me at age 18 shooting guns--responsibly--and they never made the news...imagine that.

I owned this "assault weapon" at age 18...somebody call CNN...

[Radio_Guy]

90. Well, for one thing

"If he's graduated from high school and is 18, WTF would be newsworthy about him having a photo taken holding a gun"

My graduation pictures were taken at the school. Of course that was way back when flash photography was first invented. :) If the pictures were taken at the school, I'd have a problem with bringing the gun on campus. I have a problem with just anybody owning a gun anyway, but that is a different topic for a different time.

[benEzra]

99. Ours were taken at an outside studio (1989)

but schools probably vary in their approach.

Bringing a firearm within 1000 feet of any school property is a Federal felony unless it's for a school-sanctioned marksmanship competition or instruction, so I'm sure this photo was taken off-campus.

[slackmaster]

62. Is he on the school's Marksmanship team?

:nuke:

[donco6]

69. That's gross.

I can't imagine sending such a thing to anyone.

[The Straight Story]

76. Why the fear of guns (ie, why are folks upset about this???)

It makes little sense to me. Guns are legal, people shoot them all the time (I worked in the gun industry for some time), and they can be fun.

Guns are not the problem - people are. Why do people mis-use them so often? Are they unable to differentiate between right and wrong?

[wtmusic]

82. People misuse them so often maybe we should just take them away nt

:evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

84. Where would you put them all?

Concentration camps?

[Solo_in_MD]

85. People misuse other things quite a bit more

knives, automobiles, pepper spray...

[Mugu]

88. Some people make the same argument against the first amendment.

I firmly believe that the second amendment is the teeth of the Constitution and must not be infringed. And requiring licensing is just providing the government a method of denying this right. However, the lack of a familiar relationship with this tool can lead to tragic consequences.

I find it difficult to convince youngsters that wish to buy a first handgun that they should buy a double action .22rf revolver. But the .22rf revolver promotes the skills required for the safe and proficient use of a handgun at a price that encourages practice, which is really what prevents accidents and mistakes. Plus a revolver requires an intentional input (the hammer moving back, the cylinder turning, and pulling the trigger) that foretells a known result (bang). Once the safe operation of a revolver is mastered, the additional skills required for the safe operation of an auto-loader are relatively simple.

The Glock has no visible striker, no loaded chamber indicator, no real safety for accidental trigger brushes, etc. I own a Glock and enjoy shooting it very much (even through the trigger is somewhat spongy), but would never sleep with it under my pillow or feel comfortable tucking it in my waistband. For that duty, there are many automatics that would serve faithfully, but I know for sure that I can always trust my old friend; a 4” barreled .357 double action revolver. There is no concern about accidental discharges and I know that if I ever need it, I only need to squeeze it firmly, and it will perform (insert phallic references here).

[wtmusic]

103. You definitely want to watch out for hair-triggers in the waistband

:scared:

[Doctor Venmkan]

109. *minor* correction...

Newer Glocks DO have a loaded-chamber indicator, albiet not a great one IMO.

For a first-time shooter's first gun, I agree probably not the best choice. But the most important thing to remember with a Glock is the same for all guns...keep your finger OFF THE TRIGGER until you want it to go 'boom!' ;)

So, I guess since some people think kids can't have anything to do with guns because of Columbine, that would mean:

Adults can't have anything to do with alcohol because of drunk-driving crashes...

Adults can't own box-cutters anymore since 9/11...

Adults can't own knives due to people getting stabbed. If you need something cut, you'll have to call the knife police and wait for them to respond to you...

It's not the guns (or anything else), it's the PEOPLE!!!

[REP]

89. Oh My God The Sky Is Falling

Is the kid a marksmen? Into competitive shooting?

You know *anything* *at* *all* about handguns? How do you know it's a Glock? Do you know why a competitive shooter might choose a Glock?

Or you just want to be hysterical about a kid holding a gun?

You want to get really scared and weepy? When my husband was in highschool in Kansas, he carried a rifle to class. So did several of his classmates. They were on the rifle team. Oh my god!!!!!111! There are *yearbook* photos of him with a gun! :cry; "cry: :cry:

[aikoaiko]

91. Unless he was handling the gun poorly -- you're overreacting.

If shooting is his hobby -- why not?

:shrug:

[-..__...]

95. OMFG!... A Glock, I don't blame you for being upset.

Why couldn't the kid have the pic taken holding an American made firearm like a Colt 1911 or something built on an AR-15 platform from Bushmaster or Rock River Arms?

Don't get me wrong, there are some fine foreign manufactured and/or designed firearms out there but, we should buy and support American built when possible.

[Ciggies and coffee]

105. Were his brain chemicals were altered by pills?

All of these school shootings had teens who were drugged up by the pharma industry. If this guy was, I might keep my distance.

Otherwise, nothing to have a cow about.

[Ciggies and coffee]

106. When I was in HS, we had a shooting club n/t