My take on the illegal immigration debate

[KingFlorez]

It's not about thinking illegal immigration is okay, it's about how it's being handled. What is the point in felonizing it? That cost taxpayers money and is totally unnecessary. The whole debate has been hijacked a far-right fringe element that has xenophobic and racist beliefs. Instead of being a debate about law and order, it's become a debate about something else. The truth is, somethings I'm seeing out of the anti-immigrant crowd scare me, because they're problem is not with the violation of the law, but with Mexicans period. Again, it's not that I support illegal immigration, it's just that some elements of the debate are disturbing.

[OregonBlue]

1. Yes, for the far right it is bigotry pure and simple but, for some of us

it's more. Some of our communities have been overrun with illegal immigrants. Our wages have plummeted and our social services are overwhelmed. Unless you live in an area that has been seriously affected, you won't understand how even bleeding heart liberals can be opposed to illegal immigration.

Duers should also consider that the majority of illegal immigrants from Mexico are Catholic and Evangelical. If they are allowed to become citizens, they will not be Democrats. They are totally opposed to abortion and gay marriage. Why do you think the churches are so supportive of giving amnesty to these 10 million. It will swell their voting ranks!!

[KingFlorez]

9. That's not my point

What I'm saying is bigotry is why there are protest. Do you really see the point in making it felony? That would cost taxpayers more money than before. That is where the protest is coming in.

[OregonBlue]

12. Border enforcement and cracking down on the employers are not

"felony" offenses. Yes, I agree that turning all illegals into felons plays right into the RW hand.

[loyalsister]

2. I also find it disturbing

xenophobia and racism are really at the heart of it whether people want to admit it or not.
Legitimate concerns have been used to justify racism.
The dialogue taps into and exploits racism in it's very ugliest forms.
The white man's burden aspect of this debate which is constantly targeting the "brown people" thus many liberals follow the xenophobic line.

[hanginthere]

3. Lets face it

anything we do on immigration is going to affect Latinos, especially Mexicans more than any other group. (For the obvious reason that the major % of illegal immigration is by these groups.

Although the effects on the people illegally today may be negative for the people coming over illegally right now, it might help to look at the big picture:

Illegal immigration allows big business to gain unfair profits by abusing illegal workers, instead of doing things that might attract workers other than illegal immigrants, things like improving conditions, raising wages, and investing in infrastructure rather than just using people. (Example:
Cotton harvesting is now done by machine rather than by hand, because the cotton growers had to invest in infrastructure rather than relay the cheap labor provided by slaves.

Illegal immigration is providing support to a support to a corrupt and unfair regime.
But the people most damaged by Mexico's policy, the people who would ordinarily be out there protested it, are funneled into the bottem tier of the American labor pool. If the Mexican government didn't have the crutch of illegal immigration to rely on, they might have to face up to their own significant problems.

Illegal immigration hamstrings America's own poor.
Whatever the lowest rung on American society is, Illegal immigration drives it one step lower.
Whoever the poorest American is, there is someone who is willing to work for less money, for longer hours under worse conditions with less benefits. This hamstrings the American workers ability to organize against this sort of unfair treatment

[Brotherjohn]

4. On the contrary, I don't think the far right xenophobes have hijacked...

... the debate.

The "debate" was intentionally given to them by the neocons in power.

Throw out some ridiculous legislation, create a crisis where there was none, and viola!... the election is suddenly about immigration instead of the things it should be about: gas prices, the economy, lawbreaking at the highest levels of government, and oh yeah... THE WAR!

It's all a big diversion. The far right racist wackos haven't hijacked anything. They are being used, as are immigrants, legal and otherwise.

[quickesst]

5. I think....

people on both sides play the race card with little logical thought, rising to the occasion more for the "look at me, I'm fighting the good fight", and ignoring the consequences of the cause they supposedly believe in.(not directed at KingFlorez) The surest way to derail any logical, intelligent debate on an issue is to scream "racism", just because your back is up against the wall, while denying the reality of a situation, and its consequences. Racist? No. Logical? Yes.
By the way, while sheetrock is being hung, and metal stud buildings are being built by illegal aliens, I'm sitting at home waiting for my unemployed workers compensation benefit to arrive for this week. Why not take a look at some statistics on the wage suppression for construction workers because of cheap illegal labor. I stand with the American-Mexican legal citizens(C-Span this morning) who harbor the same concerns as myself. Citizenship will not affect wages. Immigrants, legal or not, will undercut an American workers wages, simply because the reduced wages will be more than they have ever earned.(Something a lot of people ignore) Call me racist if you must, and if it somehow gives credence to the delusion that everything liberal is necessarily good, and good for everyone. Although it's like comparing a gentle breeze(liberal) to a hurricane(conservative), the left is not infallible, and I will not glom onto every single cause simply because of where it originated.
Although new in participating, I am a long-time reader of DU, and my perspective on a lot of issues have been altered by many of the members here, but, some on the left are very sensitive about, well, EVERYTHING, so please, just because my opinion may go against the norm on this site, I am not a freeper. I CAN PROVE I'M HUMAN! They have tests for that. Thanks.
quickesst
On edit: One more issue I'd like to bring up. The eleven to twenty million illegal immigrants that are already here? If they have been here for awhile, established and accepted as part of the community, pay taxes, have children in school, ect., then yes, a fasttrack to citizenship should be implemented. Those illegal immigrants, stacked ten to twenty per mobile home, working for straight cash, most of which is sent back to Mexico without any benefit to America or it's citizens, then no, they should be dealt with as illegal aliens, and the law should apply. If this is just freeper thinking, then I suppose I'm guilty on this count.+

[Sterling]

7. great post

[Solon]

6. The racists have definately been coming out of the woodwork lately...

They should go back under the rocks they came from, the notable ones are the "English-Only" and "The Law is the Law, damn the severity of it" folks. I swear, my blood pressure just shot up like 200% just reading thier racist, bigoted crap! Why not work on solutions instead of demonizing a desparate group of people. THESE PEOPLE THAT I TALK ABOUT ARE THE VERY REASON FOR THE PROTEST, BIGOTRY SHOULD BE PROTESTED AGAINST, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!

[tjwash]

8. The whole issue has brought out...

...an extremely ugly side of some personal friends of mine, that I thought did not even exist. And these are people that I have known for years.

It's truly unfortunate, that more heat than light has been shed on the entire issue. Even here at DU, where we supposedly pride ourselves on being the "big tent", and coming up with "progressive far reaching solutions" to issues, I have not seen a single thread here on the issue, that has not devolved into pointless name calling, and racist sniping. This was a real chance to open up some dialog on the subject, and really get to understand the why, and the how of the situation, and to really come up with some working solutions.

Until we can rein in that emotional part of us, that makes the actual issue secondary, and think about it objectively, and not with an "us versus them" mentality that seems to be prevalent here, it's just not going to change either.

[Solon]

10. I have even tried to elevate the level of debate, and the thread sinks...

but nobody wants solutions, just scapegoats, and Mexican Immigrants, both legal and illegal make for easy pickings.

[quickesst]

11. heh-heh....

Solon wrote: "They should go back under the rocks they came from, the notable ones are the "English-Only" and "The Law is the Law, damn the severity of it" folks. I swear, my blood pressure just shot up like 200% just reading thier racist, bigoted crap! Why not work on solutions instead of demonizing a desparate group of people. THESE PEOPLE THAT I TALK ABOUT ARE THE VERY REASON FOR THE PROTEST, BIGOTRY SHOULD BE PROTESTED AGAINST, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!"

Excellent example. Thanks.
quickesst

[OregonBlue]

13. So everyone who opposes illegal immigration is a racist?

[Cleita]

14. I have found it very disturbing too.

Some here seem to miss the point of basic justice in laws. Everyone has a right to work and to make a living. This is a basic right that has been a human right since the Stone Age. When a law favors one group of people over another where basic rights are involved then it is an unjust law and it should be annuled just as the slavery laws were in the nineteenth century.

[Egalitariat]

15. People don't seem to draw a difference between legal and illegal

immigration.

I'm for immigration. I'm against illegal immigration.