Anyone agree that our nation's headed for economic collapse?

[bobthedrummer]

Or does anyone have a different view of things.

I know our country has been looted-the surplus and our money supply have been taken-and there is also economic warfare to contend with.

What do you think?

[Nederland]

1. Not a chance

...but I suppose it depends on how you define "economic collapse".

[papau]

17. True-a lower standard of living and larger gap between filthy rich & the

rest of us might not be called an "economic collapse".

And with 20 years of Dem control of the Executive/Legislative/and Judicial branches we might be able to undo what 8 years of Bush 43 has done to us - but that is a long shot as long as the media is owned by and biased in favor of the rich GOPers.

[liberal N proud]

2. I think the America's days as an economic super power are ending

We will become a second class nation all at the hands of the terrorist in the white house. But they will have what they need, so they do not care.

[gordianot]

10. Which is why they so jealously guard their WMD's.

Approaching use them or lose them.

[AndyA]

3. I think there's big trouble looming ahead.

Credit card payments have gone up, doubled in most cases.

People have been taking the equity out of their homes for years, now the real estate market is beginning to soften, so there's no equity at all.

People are seeing their energy costs go up - electricity, home heating oil, gasoline, etc., and this is just now beginning to really impact budgets.

Many Americans have been living on credit for a long time. Now the endless credit is being tightened up, and people will be faced with no more free ride, but pay as you play.

We have huge deficits, yet no limit to the amount we'll spend in Iraq.

We have a weak President, a corrupt Congress, a biased media, and an angry majority.

The future doesn't sound so hot, does it?

[partylessinOhio]

16. You have covered the list very well, I agree.

Add to the top a stubborn selected president who will not admit he was/is wrong and change course.

He will go full steam ahead and plunge our economic engine into the largest crash since the great depression.

We cannot even begin to see a reversal unless this insane invasion is ended and taxes are raised.

:cry:

[gordianot]

4. If it happens it will be mainly oil hungry, however,......

The oil rich will make sure it will not happen too soon. Just buying time.

[MadHound]

5. Let's see here

A massive debt, a massive trade imbalance, and over-dependence on petroleum products, decreasing real world wages, massive consumer debt, a dollar teetering on the brink of collapse, a war that is sucking ever increasing amounts of money, declining infrastructure, yeah, I would say that we're on the brink of an economic collapse. And sadly, this one is going to make the Great Depression look like the Roaring Twenties.

[deaniac21]

6. I don't understand what you mean by:

"the surplus and our money supply have been taken".

[reichstag911]

7. Uncertain.

China and Japan have already expressed their reluctance to continue buying up all the debt we can shovel their way, our trade and budget deficits are not sustainable, and we are a diplomatic pariah.

I do, however, think that the rest of the world will attempt to prevent a complete collapse by trying to instill some financial discipline on our wastrel nation, since any such US collapse would portend a global collapse. We are the world's Wal-Mart, consumers of what everyone else manufactures.

[leveymg]

8. Not as bad as Britain in 1946 or USSR in 1989, but getting there.

If the U.S. were a developing country, the IMF would restructure us.

[Deep13]

9. Sure, eventually.

Our reliance on cheap energy, cheap land and cheap, imported labor as a way to maintain a semblence of a middle class while preserving corporate windfalls cannot last forever. Eventually we will run out of greenspace to turn into buildings or cheap energy. Cheap labor at present seems endless, but people coming here have to eat and livesomewhere, so that puts additional pressure for cheap land, energy and labor.

[Roland99]

11. America now resembles the early 1920s.

Don't cry for me Argentina.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701238.html

[Joe Fields]

12. Recession? Yes. Depression? Maybe, but doubtful.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. No

There is nothing in the data to suggest any rapid decline or freefall in the intrinsic elements of the economy.

Don't get me wrong, i think this is a poor economic condition, given it's nearly textbook stagnation, UE, savings rates and inflation values.

But, we're not heading for any economic doom. I would challenge anybody who says we are to show me the data and the mathematics that would predict such an outcome. I will virtually guarantee that there will be a methodological error if that is the conclusion.

The economy might suck right now, but it's miles and miles from the edge of the cliff, and it moves in a glacial, geologic pace, not the pace of a racecar careening down a hill.
The Professor

[Sammy Pepys]

14. Extremely remote chance...

I think we'll only collapse as part of a larger world-wide collapse, and I just don't see that happening.

[katty]

15. yes, thought this for years...everyday a hit to middle class, jobs

affecting critical infrastructure-erosian, like melting glaciers-eventually we will be inundated.

[bobthedrummer]

18. Here's some not unexpected news about Iraq that illustrates my point.

Billions wasted in Iraq says US audit (Guardian UK)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1765049,00.html

I believe that something similar to the Great Depression is shaping up as a result of the behavior of this administration-and "the war president".

[depakid]

19. All you have to do is look at the macroeconomic situation

and compare it with others throughout history. Then the answer's obvious.

[seemslikeadream]

20. Babylon this is your final day, Babylon this is your final call

REVOLUTION SOLUTION

Oh I’ve hoped for comfort
But I’ve never felt too safe
And in this hard life
I’ve had to navigate through
Unexhausted
Has been my virtue

Oh I’ve hoped for comfort
But I’ve never felt too safe
And in this hard life
I’ve had to navigate through
Unexhausted
Has been my virtue

They set themselves against I
They set my pride on fire
Phoenix always rises high
Rebel crusader
Driven to decisions
They trapped me into

The Revolution Solution
Oh I’ve come to join you

Oh I’ve hoped for comfort
But I’ve never felt too safe
And in this hard life
I’ve had to navigate through
Unexhausted
Has been my virtue

Oh I’ve hoped for comfort
But I’ve never felt too safe
And in this hard life
I’ve had to navigate through
Unexhausted
Has been my virtue

The paradox of poverty
Has left us dismayed
Sliding democracy
Washing away
The toil of the many goes
To the fortunate few

The Revolution Solution
Oh I’ve come to join you

The toil of the many goes
To the fortunate few

The Revolution Solution
Oh I’ve come to join you



AMERIMACKA

Miss Liberty turn inna Jezzabelle
All de dreams you go sell, de whole dem turn inna hell
Her bed of roses are filled with thorns
Her righteous robes are tattered and torn

If she had only stood for love
That would have been enough
She wouldn’t have to hide her shame
If she had only stood for love
That would have been enough
But now she’s burnt us all with her flames

Amerimacka
Oh what a beautiful life
Amerimacka
Is like licking honey off a knife

Amerimacka
Oh what a beautiful sight
Amerimacka
Oh what a beautiful life

The land of the free built on slavery
Our consciousness in captivity
The promise land is the liar’s den
Your culture of greed has got to end

Now we’re laying in the mud
Looking up above
Tear water just ah drop from the sky
They try to keep us in the mud
Separating us from love
But me nah go let dem conquer de I

Amerimacka
Oh what a beautiful life
Amerimacka
Is like licking honey off a knife

Amerimacka
Oh what a beautiful sight
Amerimacka
Oh what a beautiful life



WIRES AND WATCHTOWERS

How can the wicked smile while the world is burning
How can they turn their eyes and walk away
How can the blue bloods hide, while brothers killing brothers
Why do they divide I and I for diamonds and gold

The dreams of children they float to the sky
And wires and watchtowers can’t bring their demise
Tell me why oh why are we so blind
The treasures of love lay buried inside
Tell me why oh why do we deny
The chains of Babylon are all in our mind

The murderers clouds can’t keep the sun from shining
The wind of Jah will scatter them away
The murderers clouds can’t keep the sun from shining
Jah will scatter he who has no shame

The dreams of children they float to the sky
And wires and watchtowers can’t bring their demise
Tell me why oh why are we so blind
The treasures of love lay buried inside
Tell me why oh why do we deny
The chains of Babylon are all in our mind

Tell me why oh why are we so blind
The treasures of love lay buried inside
Tell me why oh why do we deny
The chains of Babylon are all in our mind



THE RICHEST MAN IN BABYLON

There is no quidance in your kingdom
Your wicked walk in Babylon
There is no wisdom to your freedom
The richest man in babylon

Your beggars sleep outside your doorway
Your prophets leave to wonder on
You fall asleep at night with worry
The saddest man in Babylon

The wicked stench of exploitation
Hangs in the air and lingers on
Beneath the praise and admiration
The weakest man in Babylon

There is no hope left in your kingdom
Your servants have burned all their songs
Nobody here remembers freedom
The richest man in Babylon

Si la lou babylon go 'dain
Babylon gon' be rich again
But to we don' sick again
But no we no weak again
Babyloooon on on on on
(Rasta scat)
Sal la lou ca uba whoa
Si la douba douba do wa bay
??
Si la loo babylon come 'round
You better know you better understand
'Fact you know you better hear what they say
Babylon this is your final day
Babylon this is your final call
Read the writin' it's on the wall
Said United we stand
And together we fall
And if I know that
You're not 'gon catch me in a rat pack
We not go fallin' on your death trap
No way...

Whoooooa oh oh oh oh whoa oh who oh oh
Whooooooa oh oh oh
Whoa oh oh o oh

[Boomer]

21. It's a crapshoot

The wide range of "certain" predictions posted above are the reason I ignore most economic predictions. Our economy is toast, our economy will stand, the answer is obvious. :eyes:

Smoke and mirrors. I'd be better off reading my horoscope than listening to economists.

[robertpaulsen]

22. What?! Economic collapse?!

Of course not! They eliminated the transparency of the M3 for our protection & SECURITY!!!

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[seemslikeadream]

26. Freedom's just another word

for nothing left to loose
Nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free :hi:

[robertpaulsen]

32. Hey there!

Thank you for filling my head with good tunes today! Here's one I love:

:hi:

"Thank You"

If the sun refused to shine, I would still be loving you.
When mountains crumble to the sea, there will still be you and me.

Kind woman, I give you my all, Kind woman, nothing more.

Little drops of rain whisper of the pain, tears of loves lost in the days gone by.
My love is strong, with you there is no wrong,
together we shall go until we die. My, my, my.
An inspiration is what you are to me, inspiration, look... see.

And so today, my world it smiles, your hand in mine, we walk the miles,
Thanks to you it will be done, for you to me are the only one.
Happiness, no more be sad, happiness....I'm glad.
If the sun refused to shine, I would still be loving you.
When mountains crumble to the sea, there will still be you and me.

[robertpaulsen]

29. All sarcasm aside, have you read this bob?

I believe this speech spells out most of the whys and wherefores regarding economic collapse:

THE PARADIGM IS THE ENEMY: The State of the Peak Oil Movement at the Cusp of Collapse
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/042706_paradigm_speech.shtml

[progressivebydesign]

23. Nope. Dont' agree.

The wealth, unfortunately, is being redistrubuted globally and into the hands of a select few in power. But collapse? nope.

[Sinti]

24. Given the current trajectory I can't see how we avoid it

Our economy is obviously very sick. The money is all going to the top, mostly multi-national corporations, with less and less of the already meager amount of wealth coming back down. Eventually, because of the top-heaviness, the economy will literally topple over.

We have huge trade imbalances, and no manufacturing, therefore no means by which to attempt to regain equilibrium. Our economy is beginning to look more and more like the economies in places like Saudi Arabia, small extremely wealthy population, huge population living in poverty. At least the Saudis sell products to other countries, those with large middle classes, we really don't have much of an export business going at all.

Then you add in the total lack of fiscal responsibility on the part of the government, not in terms of social programs, schools, and infrastructure, but in terms of enriching even further the top earners while the other things go to waste. This is a three-headed snake, and a very poisonous one at that. I truly believe people should try to start to figure out what they're going to do when the excrement hits the rotating air producing device, not in terms of where are your dollars coming from, but in terms of survival itself. You can't eat your fiat currency.

On an upbeat note, the GDP is just dandy - now if only the AWEP (average workers earning power) was doing as well we'd be in business.

[Zynx]

25. Collapse? No. Long painful restructuring, possibly.

The US economy is currently as reliant on foreign investment as a developing economy and that is highly irregular throughout history. We have to attract $800 billion to a trillion dollars of foreign investment every year to make the economy function. Inevitably, the investment will not flow as much as it is now and the dollar will fall further than it already has to correct the massive current account deficit. This will likely cause a reduction in the standard of living for the average American family as import prices rise.

[edhopper]

27. In the next two to three years,

the US will experience the biggest real estate collapse in its history (we peaked last summer in the biggest real estate bubble in history).
This might bring about some harsh times.

[Kurovski]

28. Do you remember when, In November, 2004 Economic `Armageddon'

was predicted by Stephen Roach, the chief economist at investment banking giant Morgan Stanley?

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Economic-Armageddon23nov04.htm

[newportdadde]

30. Not a collapse more like a lurch and a ballon slowly deflating.

I do think we are coming up on a nasty recession although I'm not convinced we ever really made it out of the last one. I believe we are witnessing stagflation right now, costs up, wages flat or even down.

I use to be into the whole crash scenario now I see it more like the DOW bleeding off 25% again and again a series of lurches maybe once a decade as we slowly stair step down and the middle class gets smaller and smaller.

I'm 30 and grew up with unions, not my family but neighbors etc. I remember the UAW neighbor we had who put 3 kids through college on his one salary. These types of jobs are disappearing. My sons will know less of unions of good paying jobs then I, their kids less still.

It will creep along so slowly you won't really even notice much like a frog staying in that boiling water.

There are a few things that I could see creating a crash scenario.

1) Nuclear attack
2) Worldwide oil crisis(probably resulting in Scenario 1)
3) Natural resource crisis such as fresh water.

Another thing is the Baby boomers - wildcard, they leave the workforce and create more costs but at the same time the labor market *should* tighten(if not all outsourced) which would drive up wages for those left, maybe this could actually help us? Who knows :shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. We're being out-capitalists by the ex-communists.

We promoted capitalism to all the communist countries, so they've taken it on and are whipping our asses with it.

"The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." - Lenin

The irony is delicious.

[nancyr]

33. collapse

It's just a matter of time.....I think we're already dead broke but most people neither know nor care.