again RW pitts economically powerless against each other (immigration)

[bobbieinok]

This was very clear in listening to RW and christofascist radio 'discussions' on immigration on Saturday.

There was 'outrage' that Latinos would compare their problems and goals to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s.....as if most of the hosts and callers cared anything at all about black civil rights.

There was 'anger' that illegals 'will work' for less than Americans and thus take jobs from unemployed Americans......no mention of the employers who choose to hire illegals at very low wages b/c the employers know the illegals will not complain.

This is the approach that worked very well at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries to keep the Robber Barons in power and weaken the poor blacks and whites. There was a strong populist movement that had won victories in the farming communities of the Midwest and was beginning to make inroads among the poor and farm laborers of the South. The 'people in power' cynically used lots of racism to persuade the poor whites that they had nothing in common with the blacks, that the blacks were taking their jobs and forgetting their 'place.'

Some day (we can hope) the targets of this cynical manipulation of the economically less powerful will see that much more unites them than divides them. Until then, the powerful will continue to win by dividing their opponents, pitting blacks against whites, Latinos against blacks, women against men, etc etc

[DUHandle]

1. The class warfare argument works both ways n/t

[MercutioATC]

2. I'm not "economically powerless" and I don't support illegal immigration.

I really don't think it's a case of pitting the poor against the poor, it's an issue of right and wrong.

Why should people who broke the law by entering this country illegally be permitted to harm U.S. citizens who are here legally? Why would anybody grant them amnesty?

[Sapere aude]

5. Where is the harm? What have they done to harm you?

Please be specific.

[MercutioATC]

8. Aside from using social services that I pay for? Nothing to ME.

Talk to a laborer that's a U.S. citizen and the situation is much different, however. How many unemployed U.S. laborers would have jobs if illegal immigrants didn't take jobs and drive down wages? THEY'RE the people who are hurt the most.

[Sapere aude]

10. What do you think would happen if instead of fighting immigrants you

joined with them against unfair employers. What if they were citizens and paid the same taxes you do? Instead of fighting the corporations we are fighting among our selves and getting nowhere. Doesn't it make sense to welcome them as fellow working class people and fight together for social justice? That is more likely to happen if we want it to then to deport 11 million people. They will continue to be here, continue to take low wage low skilled jobs and continue to be a cause for you do generate a lot of negative energy over.

Why not try to see something positive that can come from this?

[MercutioATC]

11. I prefer a third alternative...

Advocate meaningful penalties to employers who hire undocumented workers and deport illegals as they surface (no door-to-door searches or mass deportations).

Regardless, I'm not ethically able to stand with people who entered this country illegally and demand to be recognized as citizens while hundreds of thousands of others followed the law and WORKED for citizenship.

[Sapere aude]

12. There was a time when I felt exactly like you do now.

I believed that the illegals were ruining my quality of life. They were coming here and driving down wages. They were forcing us to accept the Spanish language as a second language. The were not willing to assimilate.

Then I got to know them and work with them. I now feel that all the time I was mad at them, it wasn't hurting them one bit, but I was always angry and dwelling on negative thoughts and spending time in negativity instead of positive thinking. I was hurting myself.

Now, I feel differently. I try to see some positive good in all of this and what comes to me is that we are all struggling for a better life and that ties us together. We could work together to make the situation better for all of us.

Raging against illegal immigration is like raging against the wind IMHO. Sure they broke our laws, sure others came here legally. But I say we should over look that because it is in our own best interests. We should care about the life they are forced to live if deported. Families broken up, people forced to live in poverty all their lives. I don't think it is in the hearts of most of us to just not give a damn.

[MercutioATC]

13. Maybe someday I'll see it as you do.

Not right now, though.

I'm not particularly "angry" about the situation nor do I hate illegal immigrants. I see it as one problem with U.S. labor/employment issues, and I believe it must be dealt with. Granting amnesty and overlooking their refusal to comply with U.S. immigration law will, IMO, only make the problem harder to control in the future.

...just my .02

[Sapere aude]

14. I agree that we have to do something about the future.

If we grant amnesty than we will give others the incentive to come here illegally. I think that we have to prevent employers from paying sub standard wages and they must only hire documented people. In other words, those already here can stay and over time become citizens. Those not here yet should not be able to find work. Those are the ideas that come to me right now.

[sharp_stick]

3. RW idiots are nothing without anger

Everything pisses them off and that's what keeps them going. Even if they have to pull something out of thin air to stay angry such as "the war on christmas".

[Sapere aude]

4. As our piece of the economic pie gets smaller and smaller we turn on each

other. It is evident even at DU. The rage against anyone making more money or driving a SUV etc. is an example of frustration on our parts because we feel victimized by somebody so we scapegoat those visible groups we see.

Immigrants are making us look really bad today. They can march by the hundreds of thousands to make their demands known and all we can do is blame the right and feel victims of corporatists. We could not amass the numbers like they do because we are all fighting each other thus we have small groups that have no power.

Instead of fighting each other, we should be fighting those in power. Why aren't we marching in the streets protesting high gas prices rather than giving the bird to SUV drivers?

[depakid]

7. Ironic, isn't it?

Undocumented workers are more empowered than their sheepish American counterparts (many of whom make "moral" arguments about "right" from "wrong").

[azurnoir]

6. This has been the RW 's

MO since Raygun at least. Remember the first se asian immigrants? Shortly before their arrival Ray gun de-funded programs for minority small businesses causing many, primarily black businesses to fail. Then had a hand in settling the asians in the same neighborhoods and giving them tax breaks and programs aimed at refugee's. We all know the results, don't anyone try to tell me that was not the whole purpose to divide and conquer.

[underpants]

9. Very Zinn-esque

or at least Howard Zinn was the first place that I saw it spelled out and it clearly does continue today via taxes and "welfare"

See Leonard Pitts article here about the Republicans history on this matter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=207348&mesg_id=207348