Adios White Privilege

[VirtualChicano]

The Liberation of Anahuac Has Begun!

Clovis man > Mexica > Mexican

You will NOT tell us where to live
You will NOT tell us where we can work

Never again will you traet us like sub-humans on our own continent!

[skooooo]

1. can't we all just get along?

:shrug:

I never told anyone where to live. I welcome immigrants.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Nobody wants to be an American....

... more than an immigrant.

Bless 'em all, I say. (In the most areligious manner possible.)

:)

[Autonomy]

2. This should be good

:popcorn:

[Inland]

3. When will the liberation progress to a point

anyone knows what you are referring to?

[Karenca]

4. unh

never mind.

[asthmaticeog]

5. *yawn*

I'm sorry, did you say something?

See, here's the rub: I'm all in favor of ALL workers and immigrants having a chance to become legal and earn a LIVING wage, but every country has citizenship and residency requirements. My "white privilege" doesn't allow me to just hop on up to Montreal and say "OK, I'm just gonna live here now."

So please, don't let me keep you from enjoying your Pan-American liberation feelgood moment, but do you really think some protests are going to result in completely open borders and living wages for everyone? We don't even have a living wage for all WHITES here, so your smash-the-gringos dream is maybe a little misplaced.

[DS1]

12. love it

:thumbsup:

[EstimatedProphet]

66. Exactly

Sorry, but I do think that we need immigration laws, just like every other country. Does that mean that I don't think that immigrants should have a say? Not at all. What we need is restructuring of what policies we do have. that, and only that, is what will fix the problems. We need to go after the corporations that are encouraging illegal immigration to hire cheap labor, and we need to encourage positive living values in Mexico and Central America so that people won't feel the need to live illegally to make their lives better. Until we do these things we're pissing in the wind.

[gordianot]

6. So it goes one privilege replaces another.

I'm not sure my Osage ancestors would have agreed.

[HughBeaumont]

7. You're not gonna go all Rage Against the Machine on us, are you?

:popcorn:

[leftofthedial]

8. Viva la Raza

RIght on!

I am tired of the MAN keeping us DOWN!

(um, you left out the part about the Spaniards)

It's time to give America back to the, um, buffalo.

[texanwitch]

11. I am half native american, the Spaniards did steal a lot of land that

didn't belong to them.

How many people think today was just about jobs.

[leftofthedial]

26. Native Americans back to Siberia!

stop changing the map!

[Gman]

20. How does this square with the fact that

the NBA instituted the 3-point shot to give white boys a chance?

[SPKrazy]

10. I'm Tired Too!

You want to live and work here, fine. I'm all for it. Let's increase LEGAL immigration numbers and do it legally. Let's fine employers who hire illegals because they are doing it only for cheap labor.

I think that there should be a fair playing field for immigrants to work here, and fair wages.

Time to stop taking advantage of anyone. Realize Virtual Chicano, that the enemy is the very wealthy corporatists, and the Republicans (and some Dems) who are their paid lawmakers.

They are the ones that keep you down. The rest of us are just people man.

So, liberate away, most of us are with you! We're tired of being told where we can work, where we can live, and we're tired of being treated like sub-humans on our own continent too.

[Yollam]

16. Why increase Legal immigration?

We are already absorbing a MILLION legal immigrants ever year, in ADDITION to the flood of illegals. That's one of the highest rate in the world, and we are not handling the influx well at all.

We need to stop illegal immigration, reduce legal immigration, and take care of the people who are already here (and that includes all the immigrants.)

[SPKrazy]

18. A Day Without Immigrants

apparently didn't go so well economically

need people to work

but, if wages were higher, would US citizens work in the chicken plants, lawn business, and other places?

And why would wages be a lot higher in any of those places?

A day without immigrants working in those jobs, is a testament to how much they are in fact a part of our economy and society.

Increase legal immigration so that you don't have so many illegals.

Then focus on the ILLEGAL immigrants and get them the hell out.

[IndyJones]

24. Dunno...ask Tyson (and it's former American citizen employees)

why Tyson fired American workers and smuggle Mexican workers into the country. Could it have been to pay lower wages? Could it have been so they don't have to pay benefits?

There certainly were American workers doing the work at Tyson, but Tyson made the decision to fire Americans and hire illegal labor.

Cut a finger off? Oh, too bad. Guess you'll need to be replaced with another illegal. Sorry, no workers' comp or benefits paid by Tyson. Oh, but the American taxpayers will pick up the tab for you.

Yet Tyson gave employees the day off to participate in the demonstrations. Hmmm...wonder why? Perhaps because they want illegal labor to continue? They want to continue paying slave labor wages with no benefits maybe? Gee, what a generous employer Tyson is that they gave them the day off with no hassles.

[Yollam]

33. Thank you. People who call for "more immigration", whether legal or not..

...are promoting the "race to the bottom". That's not to say I am 100% against immigration. All spouses of US citizens should be able to freely immigrate, as well as talented, educated people who are desperately needed in some key professions such as engineers, and then maybe a few hundred thousand on top of that, on a lottery basis. However, a million a year is a LOT to absorb, in terms of infrastructure, cultural assimilation, and the depressing effect a growing pool of workers has on wages.



But I would never call for a moratorium on immigration. Without immigrants, this country would stagnate.

Give us your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse - JUST NOT ALL AT FREAKING ONCE.

[SPKrazy]

49. Tyson Developed The "Chicken Plant Mentality" Long Before They

were hiring illegals.

They realized there were lots of laborers out there who would do the work, strung out on meth (yes meth has been around a long time in Tyson country) and that they were a dime a dozen.

After they cut out the insurance, benefits, etc. They didn't even have to fire the US citizens, they were mostly too strung out to care, and the government and lawyers were busy signing them up for disability, or they were becoming meth cooks.

Now bring in the Mexicans. Will work for a lot less. Don't expect benefits. Aren't necessarily strung out, work hard.

So, I know a lot of former chicken plant workers. Cold, wet, hard work. Had a lot of them in chemical dependency treatment when I worked in treatment. A lot of them are now in jail, or dead.

[Karenca]

22. that's it.

What does this say?
I saw a few protestersin NYC today with signs that read "We, without Social Security numbers demand equal employment opportunities.

Does mean that those of us born here don't have to get SS #'s either?
WTF does that sign mean?

I'm not getting this at all.

[savemefromdumbya]

59. as long as they pay taxes......

[Yollam]

13. Oh brother.

If you are Mexican, you are most likely descended from native peoples AND evil white invaders. Deal with it. And an awful lot of us whites aren't all that privileged...

The border is what it is. It's an arbitrary line on the map. The fact is that if it did not exist, the US would no longer have higher living standards than Mexico and there would no longer be a flood of people coming to work up here (most of whom couldn't care less about your little college radical Aztlan-la raza nonsense.)

You want to talk about our neighbor to the south, whose government is the MODEL that the republicans are working to achieve here in the US? Talk about white privilege! The ultra-wealthy who rule Mexico are all a bunch of white or light Spaniards who live behind walls and drive through slums in their bulletproof SUVs. Why it's the GOP's utopia.

Quit whining about the country that took you in.


Why is it that I feel nothing in common with a lot of the chicanos complaining about enforcing the borders, and yet I despise the racist minutemen idiots, too? Where is the side of common sense it this media hyped "debate"? And why is no responsibility ever placed on the companies that hire illegals in the first place?


Anyway, Virtualchicano, I guess you must love Bush, since he is proposing bringing more and more Mexicans here as cheap labor with his guest worker schemes...

[natrat]

14. spaniards introduced disease and killed and enslaved millions

[Ecumenist]

15. Welcome VirtualChicano...

:hi: I'm not sure that I either agree with your statement or even understand it. You see, I'm a black woman, with bloodlines ALL OVER THE MAP, including Mexico. Still have family members in Mexico. I am married to someone that you would assume saw himself as having white priviledge and you would 110000% wrong.
He sees it as I see it. PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED WITH HONOUR AND DIGNITY WHEN THEY WORK AND STRUGGLE FOR THEIR FAMILIES!! I believe that ALL IMMIGRANTS should betreated with respect, not just the ones who happen to have brown skin, yellow skin, black skin, etc.. I know that there is a hierarchy in the way that people are treated.

Many of these people who scream the loudest about illegal immigration are the descendants of people who came through Ellis Island, Angel Island or any other "sanctioned" method of immigration.

I said all this to say that I don't believe that it serves anyone to promulgate hatred, disdain, derision or scorn because there is no brush that you can rightfully use to paint an entire group and be correct. When you make statements of the sort you began this posting with, it not only makes you look as bigotted as the ones you cry out against, it alienates many of the same people you've judged by their skin colour who stand with you and is revolted by the prejudice spouted by the ignorant of this country.

Rethink your premise, VirtualChicano because it's not right or constructive.

[laheina]

21. Right on Ecumenist!

:hi:

[Ecumenist]

50. Not a problem, Laheina

:hi:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MelliMel]

27. That sounds like a RW talking point

they do noy make babies and when they do, they pay a "dr." to kill it for them.

Did you get that from Limbaugh or O'reilly?

Most Americans of European descent just do not have more children than they can afford. Most of us do not believe in "Screw it, let someone else pay for my kids".

And besides, many Mexicans have some Spanish in them. Going to seperate them out?

[Ms. Clio]

29. "Most Americans of European descent just do not have more children

than they can afford" sounds like a RW talking point, too.

[MelliMel]

36. It was a counter to his attack on abortion.

Breeding ones self out of existence is a scare tactic used by RWers to fire up their base.

[Ms. Clio]

43. So is the "browning" of the gene pool

[MelliMel]

83. Yes and he played that one out well too.

Or did you miss that part?

[Ms. Clio]

84. I didn't miss anything

The bait was eagerly taken by many.

[GreenArrow]

39. sounds like common sense to me

regardless of what one's "descent" is.

[Ms. Clio]

46. yes, it does

[Karenca]

31. 'We have guns and we are violent people"?

You really don't like us, do you?

'We want to kill you"?


Oy vey.

[mondo joe]

41. If you have descendants, chances are they will also be of European descent

You might want to think better of your great grand children.

[Ecumenist]

48. Chicano,

Unless you're 100% pure Aztec, mixtec, Maya, Oaxacan Indian, you also have European blood. what you deride is an inextractable part of yourself. You are mestizo/za and are probably has at least as much European blood as I have. You are becoming what you revile. I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who wants to kill you, Virtual. I have no doubt that there are those who are "a bit tilted" and more than enough nuts out there who really just want to kill anything that doesn't look lke them. The things I cold tell you..
Let's be real Virtual Chicano, there are Latinos who want to kill me, by virtue of the fact that I am a Mestiza, a mulatta, you know I'm telling the truth. How often have we heard about nuestros hermanos, latino y africano, who kill one another in prison and in the hood and WHAT FOR?? For turf in the joint and in the Barrio, for property THEY'LL NEVER OWN.

So, let's be real here, brother. How much sense does it make for you to make the statement you did when every year, hundreds, perhaps thousands of our brothers and sisters die for stupid sh&t?

You talk about Europeans breeding... That's interesting because actually, worldwide, next to Japan, there are actually population DROPS in most european countries. There are some countries actually pay women for each baby they have. The funniest thing is almost, without fail, word for word, I have and heard the same thing from racists of every stripe. I'm sure you've heard the stupid comments about mexicans breeding like rabbits...

Now,shall I give you my background? I live in northern California but I am a native Angelina and spent my childhood in Compton,California. I have lost a majority of my childhood friends to the kind of crap that I spoke about earlier on the thread, brothers and sisters killing hermanos y hermanas.

Unless somethng changes, the majority of the people on this planet have at least a mild tan, with the great majority having skin that can best be described in terms of confectionaries, caramel, brown sugar, butterscotch, etc, I'm sure you get the point.

Wake up, Brother, what La Raza is doing by flexing their economic and politcal muscle is the correct thing because, guess, what? The real evil slimey bastards understand but one thing.....MONEY AND POWER. It helps to have help within your people and ones outside who are waiting to take your hand to help you. There's nothing wrong with taking a stand BUT don't be ignorant about it. That's one of the major problems with the present government. Open your mind and as the song say, "the rest will follow. Be colourblind, don't be so shallow".


Paz y tranquilidad in el corazon,
Ecumenist:hi:

[VirtualChicano]

53. The name is MEXICA

not Aztec.

[Ecumenist]

57. Not a problem Mexica....

I stand corrected BUT you need to understand that alot of what you're saying makes no sense and in fact, sounds alot like the idiots over stormfront, freerepublic, neonazi sites and well as black nationalist sites. Wake up, Brother, Wake up..

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dorian Gray]

68. Brava, Ecumenist...

ITA! And very well stated! We need equality for all. American or non-American. Regardless of skin color. The days of hatred or xenophobia need to be ended. No Chicano/Gringo hatred, not Black/White distrust. A society where we all work hard and make the best of our lives is what we all need. :)

[laheina]

17. VirtualChicano

As a person that is for the most part in agreement with your stance, you have to understand that most of the people here are on your side.

Next time, you might want to change the "you" in your post to they. It is inflammatory in a way that accomplishes very little.

[Ms. Clio]

19. Awww, hell

Don't get all those paranoids going off on Aztlan again.

:evilgrin:

[DavidDvorkin]

23. Well, yeah, but

I'm not willing to surrender my house here in Denver and move to Europe.

[MelliMel]

28. Me neither. n/t

[madrchsod]

30. i am as long as i can go back to sweden

my nirvana,where there are still saab 93 and 96s....

[mountainvue]

67. There have been moments

during the current administration where I have actually considered it.:D

[rockymountaindem]

75. Me neither

I prefer living in Colorado. It's nice.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. Sorry, but there's bigger fish to fry these days. They're called NeoCons.

[kevinbgoode]

61. I still say we trade one neo-con for each Mexican immigrant

The Latin immigrants want to work hard and they look after their families and their community. Let the neo-cons go south of the border and try to figure out how to bomb Iran with the Mexican Navy and Air Force.

[PsN2Wind]

34. You leave little doubt of your hate for gringos

So how do you spell bigot in Mexican? How about racist? And use spell check cause you ain't doing so hot in your posts.
Really if you're going to shoot off your mouth, why don't you invest in a star? They're only a few pesos.

[MelliMel]

37. Guess it's ok

to be a bigot, as long as you are bigotted against approved groups. :eyes:

[SeattleGirl]

35. Seeing that I was born here, this is my country.

If you were born here, or immigrated here, it's your country too. But do not turn this into a kick whitey 'cause they're all rich, and the browns are gonna take over thread okay? I cannot tell you how pissed off I felt reading your post. I do not like to see anyone repressed or discriminated against because of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else, and you know what? That ANYONE includes ME! Why all of a sudden after several hundred years is it suddenly "your" country, and I'm supposed to back off, pack up, and go away? Go where? I AM home!

Don't' blame ME or others like me for the conditions that many people may find themselves in. Blame MEXICO. Blame American CORPORATIONS who, hand in hand with Mexico, perpetrate illegal immigration in this country. And blame the POLITICIANS who look the other way, or, worse, who are also hand in hand with Mexico and the corporations. As I said, I do not support oppression of anyone, and I don't think it's right that the "little guy" is the one who usually pays, while the rich corporations and politicians make money off their backs. Go after THEM. Punish THEM.

I will say this too: I cannot support instant legalization of people who came here illegally, when there are so many other people who came here legally, who have taken the steps (or are STILL taking the steps) necessary to become legal citizens of this country. I do think the hoops one has to go through to become a legal citizen are ridiculous in the main (but what government-run program ISN'T ridiculous in the main?). I would absolutely support a simplification of the process, but again, I cannot support allowing illegals to hopscotch over the backs of those waiting and following the rules. That would be the ultimate in unfairness, that one person who follows the rules gets passed over by someone who didn't. That's what the rich, fat, white politicians who run this country do to us, to all of us. Allowing illegals to do the same is not right.

Think what you may about me. I don't hate brown people, black people, ANY people. But I do have a sense of fairness, and granting the same rights to people who did not follow the rules to get here as to those who DID follow the rules doesn't sit right with me. It also doesn't sit right by me that people feel they HAVE TO come here because conditions in their homeland are so horrid that they cannot make it otherwise. And it doesn't sit right with me that the President Fox seems to be clapping and cheering illegal immigration to the United States, because he doesn't want to have to deal with the people who live in deplorable conditions. And finally, it doesn't sit right with me that you, or anyone else involved in these protests, would tell me that "you" are taking over "my" country. No, no, no. As I said, this is MY country. I welcome immigrants. But as I said, welcoming immigrants doesn't mean I think I have to pack my bags and leave. I'm already home.

[texanwitch]

42. You said it well SeattleGirl.

You spoke for me.

Like I said today wasn't about jobs, it is about political power.

[SeattleGirl]

44. That's exactly what it's about: political power.

Thanks for your comment. I appreciate it.

[texanwitch]

47. Most welcome

[Zookeeper]

45. Bravo, SeattleGirl!

My ancestors have been here for 300 years, if you don't count the one who was indigenous. My ancestors helped create America through their hard work and sacrifice, and they did a good enough job that the citizens of third-world nations want to come here and reap the benefits of my ancestors' labor, which is fine IF they do it legally. There is a lot more to America than the southwest, and Mexico has never had a claim on the rest of this country.

So, Virtual Chicano...get over yourself. The U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights and political structure didn't create itself and if you can't respect the culture that created it, why are you here?

[SeattleGirl]

52. I know a woman whose parents immigrated here from Brazil

Someone asked her why she wasn't out with the protesters today. She said it was because she could not support granting amnesty or automatic citizenship to those who came here illegally, when her parents jumped through all the hoops for all the years it took for them to become legal citizens. She understands why people want to come here; she was born here, and is proud to be a citizen. But given what her parents went through, all she is saying is that everyone should have to follow the same procedure to become citizens.

[Karenca]

51. Thank you SeattleGirl

You spoke for me.

[SeattleGirl]

56. Thanks, Karenca

:)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

85. Racist!

:sarcasm:

Hey, SG! Haven't talked to you in awhile! :hi:

But seriously, expecting instant legalization is ludicrous. Every member of my family currently in this country that was born in India came here LEGALLY. That includes my parents, my uncle, aunt and various cousins and cousin-in-laws.

In fact, only myself, two of my cousins and a very recently born nephew were born in this country, so most of my family are legal immigrants. Naturally, I was the first American-born member of my family. ;)

I can certainly appreciate the hard work many illegal immigrants perform, but expecting instant no-strings-attached legalization is frankly insulting to anyone who went through the hoops to get here.

[Nicole]

38. Adios Brown Bigot

:thumbsdown:

[madrchsod]

40. so?

who told you where you can`t live or work? where i`m at alot of mexicans and texas mexicans have made it quite well with enough to buy houses, put their children through college, and send money back to their relatives in mexico. they are in the city government,police,and schools.they own business or work in white collar jobs. i work and have worked with every kind of human being no matter what the color of their skin and everyone is the same. there`s assholes ,dumb fucks,ok guys and gals ,and those who i can call a friend because they showed me the way. nobody treats people who they respect as sub humans if they earn their respect. the most respected friend i have at work is a 62 year old mexican lady who works just as hard as i do and we communicate on the same level as people who share common experiences.
the difference between people is their inability to communicate and respect each other. if we can communicate and respect each other then we won`t have to worry we can fight the repression together and that will take everyone regardless of color of our skin and the accent in our voice

[natrat]

54. wtf you sound like some gang member ready to throw down

i rock out to los lobos as they bridge the gap between mexicans and americans--fuck your fight stance you jerk

[Ksec]

58. Hell, Im glad Ive been working on my tan.

[aikoaiko]

60. The new boss may be a lot like the old boss.

Mexican government and Mexicans have been kickin the shit out of indigenous in the south of mexico and those who cross over the boarders into Mexico for a long time.

Don't get me wrong, I wish for a more progressive view of immigration with our southern neighbor, but Mexico does not fundamentally operate differently than the US.

[JI7]

62. this post is divisive

workers rights includes whites also.

[LittleClarkie]

74. Gee, ya think?

;)

Personally, I am
English
French (Huguenots -- we got kicked outta France for bein' Protestants :thumbsup: )
German
American Indian
Norwegian
Swedish
Danish

Lilly white as all hell. But still, I don't FEEL like a white oppressor. For one thing, shouldn't I be living better? Right now, I'm battling three different kinds of bugs in my apartment.

[LittleClarkie]

63. I'm sorta peach colored

with little specks of brown.

And I live in a buggy shithole of an apartment the rent of which I am afraid I won't be able to afford.

So I'm pretty sure you're not talking to me.

[ulysses]

64. how's the "hearts and minds" campaign coming?

There are some valid points in there, but you might work on the delivery a little.

[Fountain79]

65. Umm dude....whites are still the majority...

Whites still have most of the power in the country, and all the rallies in world that Latinos want to have isn't going to change anything unless whites are behind it. So this whole race baiting thing, is really not going to work.

[Cleita]

70. They do have it right now, but they can't kill off everyone

they don't like anymore like back then, ya know wild west, etc., etc..

[Fountain79]

72. I'm sorry....

who's talking about killing anyone off?

[Cleita]

78. Your words:

Whites still have most of the power in the country, and all the rallies in world that Latinos want to have isn't going to change anything unless whites are behind it. So this whole race baiting thing, is really not going to work.

So who is doing the race baiting?

[mondo joe]

69. Continent Schmontinent.

Does Mexico have national borders?

Does it permit anyone to go anywhere, including other native people?

[Spider Jerusalem]

71. Your own continent, eh? That's nice. Mine too.

I was born here. So were my parents. And my grandparents. And my great-grandparents. My ancestors have been on this continent for nearly four centuries (the earliest arrived in Jamestown in 1608). It's as much my continent as yours. Same goes for the white Americans you're railing against, most of whose ancestors arrived here a century or more ago. What you're saying is as fucked-up and wrong as the white nativist argument (which it sounds a lot like, only in reverse).

[Skittles]

73. don't forget, my sweet

some of us have never treated anyone like sub-humans :)

[Coventina]

76. ALL HUMANS BACK TO AFRICA!

There, end of discussion!

:spank:

:evilgrin:

[Lady Effingbroke]

81. All mammals back into the ocean!

The devolution starts now!

[Coventina]

82. Well played!

:thumbsup:

[JVS]

77. Are you trying to get a wall built on the border?

[alittlelark]

79. Clovis Man had better spelling than 'Adios' man seems to have.

I hate to laugh... but it is really funny - and transparent.

[incapsulated]

80. rofl

:rofl:

[ForrestGump]

86. What

ever.

[Neil Lisst]

87. But first, throw off the yoke of the Spanish & the Catholic church.

Because that's who has been kicking the butts of the indigenous peoples the past 400-500 years in the areas south of the border.

[Moderator]

88. Locking

bigoted flamebait