I am a progressive... because I say so...and some things never change.

[ScreamingMeemie]

There is no litmus test, set of "rules" or by laws for me to follow.

I don't think about what the "proper stance" would be before voicing my opinion on something.

I try not (and sometimes I fall short) of calling others DINO's, DLCers etc...

My best friend on earth is an atheist (yeah, I know, you've all heard this from me before) and we disagree on many many things...and then silently agree not to bring "that issue" up again.

There are people on DU that I respect and admire...and some I adore. And we have wildly different viewpoints. There are people on DU that I have put on ignore; that never lasts long. I am too curious.

I thought Howard Dean would have made a fine president. You, perhaps, did not. That did not make me any more progressive than you.

Stephen Colbert did a fine job...or he didn't. I tend to be in the did (the really, REALLY did) camp, but I won't send an alert asking for your immediate banning. Although I may have wanted to.

I moderated for a while in 2003 and it was very hard to remain unbiased, but I tried my best. Moderating GD can suck on a good day.

I am guilty of spending too much money on gas, eating meat, being a NASCAR Mom, riding the center on immigration (I don't know the right answers), and owning a bunch of historic WWII rifles (okay, they are MrG's but, god forbid we divorce, I get half).

I thought about this a lot last night and this morning while thinking of the events of the past few days/weeks/months/years here.

It comes down to this for me:



What our country is doing is wrong...and I am not doing enough to stop it. I am tucking my 7 year old into bed, while mothers and fathers just like me are wiping sand off the bloodied faces of theirs...and they didn't ask for us to "help". I don't cry nearly enough over that...and I cry a lot. Because what we have become as a country is wrong, how we treat our neighbors and fellow citizens is wrong. That something is broken and needs to be fixed. I don't know the perfect way to fix it, but I'm willing to listen, and fight and hash things out to find a better solution.

Because DU hasn't changed much...but lots of "us" have along the way.

Have a good day DU. Thanks for being here every morning when we wake up...and giving us a venting place. No matter how much we claim you are different, more troll-y, less progressive, more DLC, less moderated, more moderated, biased or flaming...we always come back. Even when we say we won't.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. Kickity...

Sigh. :(

[IdaBriggs]

2. I'll kick it for you, MrsGrumpy.

I think you make some good points. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Thank you IdaB.

:)

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

3. I have nothing to add to this wonderful piece, except k&r

:hi::hug:

[MazeRat7]

4. There is something to be admired about speaking honestly from the heart.

:kick:

Thanks,

MZr7

[knowbody0]

5. thanks MrsGrumpy!

lately i been weeping over everything. Colbert's courage, the audience's discomfort, idiot boy prez with no soul. and at our evening meal i look down at their heads as i serve them i am ashamed of this country i give to them. interfaced with my reality are the faces of those we terrorize with bombs and prisons.

here at DU i find refuge but of late have nothing to say. i fight this feeling of numbness. we've been shocked again and again. i cannot even count the "ongoing investigations". IMHO this paper empire is crumbling, its skeleton exposed and ahead of us is chaos beyond imagination.

something IS wrong, and we WILL fix it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. I basically hid from GD for a very long time, when GD used to be

my life raft. I am sure it will be that way again. And I'm in for the fix up. :toast:

[BooScout]

8. I think we can all agree on one thing........

....That what it comes down to for you, it comes down to for most if not all of us. Yes we disagree on some things.........but the one thing that unites us all is the picture you just posted. Thanks for causing us all to stop and think and realize what it is all really about in the end.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. Well said. n/t

[redqueen]

10. Love you.

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. Reciprocated.

:loveya:

[Skinner]

11. Well said.

I just put this post on the DU homepage.

[Technowitch]

12. Good move, Skinner. And great post, MrsGrumpy

[XemaSab]

13. Excellent summary of what it means to be progressive

I know we've had our disagreements (cough, cough, veal, cough), but your post is an admirable outline of what we stand for: open-mindedness, fairness, and respect.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Hey, but I couldn't ever ignore you for very long.

:toast:

[XemaSab]

17. I know, I was pissed and had you on ignore for, like, 5 hours

But you're good folks and I'm not into staying pissed at someone because we, like, disagreed one time over, like, one thing.

:pals:

[Blue Diadem]

14. Thank you for saying that.

Great post! :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[peace13]

15. Thanks for that! Peace n/t

[ClintonTyree]

18. I think it's essential that we disagree on certain subjects.

If we were to all fall in line, march in lockstep and parrot talking points from our Democratic leadership I would be very, VERY worried! We're not going to see eye to eye on every issue, but that's OK. As you say, in the end we're all progressives and when the chips are down.....an believe me, they've been down lately.....we'll all come together for the common good. WE'D BETTER! :grr: ;)

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I think it is one of the things that makes this such a viable site.

So many different opinions and viewpoints. I know my eyes have been opened on some things, my point of view changed.

I stood on porches in 04, I'll do it in 06, and again in 08 to see change brought about.

[One_of_8]

19. Very well said

"What our country is doing is wrong..." I feel overwhelmed sometimes too. I second your thank you to DU for being here. It has been my lifeline since before the 2004 elections and I don't know how I would have survived the crushing disappointment without having DU to turn to.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. It was the one thing I had going for me on the internet during that

horrible November. Hopefully, we won't have to repeat it, but I'm glad it'll be here.

[jackster]

20. TY MrsG...

that was amazing - and humbling.

[motocicleta]

22. Thanks Mrs. G

and really to all of you on this thread, and on DU. It's so important to remember what the real bottom line is. We are lucky to have the freedom and luxury to argue about trivial differences, but the big issues, like that picture, are really why we have come together in this way. I pray we get more freedom and luxury down the road to argue more about Nascar, atheism, vegetarianism, and gun control, and to argue less about anything to do with war.

[swimboy]

24. Excellent!

Thanks for writing this piece! I am so glad I found my way here (with help from mikeytherat, that is). Even when we make a mess because we are passionate about something, I see tolerance and a desire for better understanding and a healed world brings us back together.

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. I am guilty of sometimes wanting to chuck everything...and then

I realize we all have the same basic vision.

:loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

25. Hi Laura

When people start throwing labels at you, they have run out of arguments. Stick to your guns (WW2 or otherwise), and the essential integrity of your character will prevail.

Or in other words, the hell with 'em! :hug:

You know I love you! :loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. Hey Zomby!!

And you know that feeling is mutual. You and that lovely woman you hang out with. :loveya:

[tandot]

26. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Great Post, MrsGrumpy!

In the last several weeks I was reading post after post sneering at DUers who don't adhere to some liberal/progressive "script" or "code of conduct" (thou shalt not eat meat, thou shalt never ever shop at Walmart, etc.) 100% all of the time.

Thanks for posting this...it makes me feel normal again. :hug:

[durrrty libby]

28. Most excellent post n/t

[Kurovski]

27. K&R

Thank you for pointing out that despite having sometimes vehement disagreements with each other, we can--and often do--come to respect one another on a basic, grounded level.

There is one thing we can all come to see as the most important issue of all. the photo you've posted brings it home.

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. I tend to bookmark our "common ground" threads now...threads that

emphasize to me the community here. Days when we are all working, or calling or writing for the same cause. It helps.

To you Kurovski...:toast:

[MuseRider]

29. LOL

I use my ignore button when I am ready to blow up but in a couple of hours after cooling down I also have to unignore because I just can't stand it!

We did not and do not always agree but one thing is certain, I think you are wonderful. Lovely post from Mrs UnGrumpy Grumpy. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. The one thing I will say is that, even when we've disagreed, I've always

had respect for the way you frame your arguments. At the end of the day I'm on your page...:)

Just don't tell my kids I'm not really grumpy. It'll be too big a blow.

[MuseRider]

68. And I would easily

say the same to you. I don't ever remember feeling mad at you, that says a lot for you because I do remember feeling really mad at some.

Mothers never tell, your secret is safe with me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. I Agree With Your Sentiments Wholeheartedly.

See MrsGrumpy? We do agree on stuff. :P

All joking aside, I thought this was an extremely well written and communicated thread and it is my pleasure to give it a K&R.

:toast:

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. Thank you OMC...and, as an aside...

I've never had you on my ignore list...not even for a minute. :toast: I'm sure we will find many more things to agree, and some to disagree on. :)

[Richard Steele]

36. Nicely put, MrsGrumpy! Hard to argue with anything you said there.

[blondeatlast]

38. AMEN! We may have differences, but we unite out of a belief we CAN

make a better nation.

Beautifully said--there's nothing to add to this but my thanks.

[merh]

39. Have I told you that I adore you?

You said all I wish I could say and better than I could ever say it.

Thank you, MrsG :hug:

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. You have said much to many. To keep us focused on the very real

suffering that still continues due to this administration's lack of competency and compassion. We owe you a great deal. :loveya:

[merh]

67. Aww, pshaw.

I'm just bitching cause the storm stole my house :silly:

You lady, you can write from the heart and say what I wish I could say.
You are so very special. :patriot:

:hug: :loveya:

[fishnfla]

40. Best post I've read in a long, long time

Probably since the last time MrsG posted in GD.

Sometimes I get torqued on the issue of the day and want to jump off a cliff. Then I start thinking: 'those assholes in the WH and their illegal war" keep focus

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. Because I had found myself feeling the same way...I took the time

to examine my reactions to things. I had stopped posting as much in GD of late... It is good to be back. :hi:

[Shakespeare]

41. You continue to be one of my MOST favorite people on DU.

And this post is an excellent example why. :loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. And it is people like you that keep me coming back everyday...

several times a day...hiding in the basement...pretending to work. :)

[Mutley]

42. Beautiful, MrsGrumpy.

Thank you. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. mutley I cannot tell you how many times I have thanked the cable

Gods this week, that you are back and posting. :hug:

[porphyrian]

43. Nobody ignores me.

I'm a favorite.

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. I will keep that in mind.

[woofless]

44. Thanks Ms G

Bless us all.

[ScreamingMeemie]

61. That is a great sigline woofless.

:thumbsup:

[NC_Nurse]

45. Nice post!

I keep coming back, though I never post anymore. I love to lurk! I have enjoyed many of your posts and agree with everything you say in this one. Thanks...
:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. NC_Nurse, it is good to see you!

I was doing more lurking than posting of late in GD. It is good to see so many recognizable people here. I was hesitant to post this and almost hit the delete button.

[uppityperson]

46. Thank you Ms.Grumpy.

appreciate the sentiments.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. Thank you uppity.

Probably one of the funniest usernames here. :)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

47. Well said, MrsGrumpy.

:thumbsup:

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. Thank you AntiChrist.

:P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. LOL!

[DemExpat]

48. Super post, MrsGrumpy,

I am a die-hard progressive and die-hard DUer too who doesn't have all the answers but feels the need to develop the answers on my own and not from some scripted proper response.

DU has grown, many oldies have left or are hard to detect among the bustling new crowd, lots of great newcomers have arrived, and the same ol' fussing and fighting is here that I've found here from the beginnings of Spring, 2001.

Love it here, appreciate it here, get frustrated sometimes here, but always come back as well.

Thanks for saying this as you did!

:hug:

DemEx

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Hi DemEx! I find myself feeling the very same way.

There are days when I walk away thinking That's IT! ...and yet, there I am, logging in. There is no better place to be among peers and catch all progressive news, editorials and events at once. I would not be half as active as I try to be if it weren't for this place. It is always good to see you. :hug:

[In_The_Wind]

49. Wonderful post Mrs.Grumpy!

I'm glad you're here.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. Thank you Joan!

:pals:

[Sugar Smack]

50. You are the best

of the very best. Nominating.

[ScreamingMeemie]

55. Takes one to know one.

Thank you very much. :pals:

[Lib Grrrrl]

51. Well Said!!

I am, quite frankly, sick and tired of some of the creepazoids here on DU that question MY liberal credentials, because I disagree with something that THEY believe strongly in.

It really pisses me off!

Particularly, the whole debate on immigration is pissing me off lately. i'm against immigration because I believe it detrimental to my own financial self-interest...and opposed to the financial interests of American workers.
I believe the presence of too many immigrants creates a too-large pool of available employees-to fill too few jobs, which naturally creates a downward pressure on wages. Added to this is the fact that many immigrants are accustomed to a lifestyle not as "elaborate" as we Americans are accustomed to...which leads me to believe immigrants will be willing to work for lower wages than Americans will - creating yet another downward pressure on wages.

For this, I am called a Freeper, a racist, a bigot, and accused of not being a Democrat - and of not being a liberal. Well too goddamned bad! I AM damn well a Democrat...and I am DAMN WELL a liberal - I hate the FUCK out of George W Bush in particular and all Republicans in general. But, at the same time...I see no reason why, just because I am a liberal - I ought to support policy and ideas that I feel are detrimental to my own financial well-being.

It really pisses me off!

If someone disagrees with my position...fine! Let them disagree. Let them state their position...and why they think my position is incorrect. They don't do that, though. Instead, they attack my character, and my liberal credetials...and cast doubt on my sincereity as a liberal and as a Democrat.

This is how the right-wing fights. If they do not like the message, and they can't fight it...they attack the messenger, and not the message. It distresses me to see some DU'ers utilizing this same strategy of attacking the messenger, just because they do not like the message.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. I promise, or try to, that I will stay out of certain threads...time and

again. And then I catch myself getting caught up again. While it contains some warts, or things we don't necessarily want or need to hear... I've met so many people with whom I share so much common ground.

I know how you feel though. Some weeks are rougher than others.

[Lib Grrrrl]

69. Yes...But It Hurts

it really, REALLY hurts to either be forced into silence, because you disagree with someone, and do not want to be attacked, or have your liberal credentials challenged.

Equally, it hurts...REALLY HURTS...to speak up...and be a free thinker...and have an unpopular opinion...and for that, to be attacked.

WHY can't some of our DU'ers grow up and start attacking the message, rather than the messenger?

I mean...sometimes, it is just a bad choice, either way...

A - be hurt by being frightened, threatened, or coerced into silence or
B - speak up and be attacked for failing to share the opinion of one strongly opinionated DU'ers who feels you and everyone else ought to share his view - and is willing to attack you and your character and your liberal credentials if you fail to support his position...or, Heaven forbid, you dare to take a position opposite...for perfectly valid reasons.

The immigration battle is one that is tearing me apart. I am getting attacked from so many different people simply because I oppose immigration - out of my concern for my own financial well-being! I'm sorry, but no one ever said being liberal meant that you had to lay down and allow everyone and everything to walk all over you, and no one ever said being liberal meant that you had to be okay with others doing well AT YOUR EXPENSE.

I do want others to do well...but let them do it in a way that does not hurt ME in the process. Is THAT so bad?

To some DU'ers....apparently it is. And they would prefer...instead of countering my arguments and my fears....instead of presenting their own case for their opposed viewpoint....they, instead, would rather simply attack me, as the messenger, because they do not want to hear the things I say, and wish to discredit me.

I agree with you, Grumpy...I am a liberal, whether or not I pass anyone else's fucking litmus test. I'm a liberal because I say I am...and, quite frankly, I generally DO support liberal causes and objectives. More often than not, I am in agreement with the majority. But there are times I'm not....or it at least seems so.

I hate this goddamned immigration debate. I just want it to GO AWAY. I just want the immigrants to GO AWAY.

I want the corrupt governments in their own countries to give a shit about the welfare of their own citizens...so that their citizens need not come here for a better life! And, for God's sake, if they are gonna come here...at least let them learn our damn language!! My great-grandparents came here, respectively, from Poland and Italy. THEY learned English. I visited foriegn countries before. I never expected anyone there to learn MY language...I expected to learn THEIRS. I improvised as best I could, with flash cards...and with what little I was able to learn of the native language...combined with what broken English THEY spoke...and hand gestures. I did allright. It was only for three weeks. But I never expected anyone to cater-ass to me, and put signs up in English just for me...etc.

It really pisses me off that so many of our current immigrants seem to REFUSE to learn English. Damn it, I absolutely REFUSE to be forced to learn THEIR language in MY country! THEY need to learn MINE!

This whole Spanish Star-Spangled Banner thing has me royally pissed.

This is something written by another friend of mine...who is also a liberal...and just happens to agree with my view on this whole thing...

Hey Y'all! Just another moment where I figger I gotta stand up and put my two cents in.

I have an entire extended family that is Hispanic (Honduran) in descent. I love Hispanic people and culture. But I have to say NOBODY has the "right" to migrate and/or work in the USA illegally! Allowing this kind of thing to continue rids us of the chance to force our own able-bodied citizens, now relying on welfare and food stamps to take those jobs or starve! We are capable of stimulating our own economy, we don't need you, and we are not obligated to you. If you want to work and/or live here legally then follow proper channels, learn English, and get legal documentation. Only then are you entitled to some "rights" here, otherwise you have only the right to get thrown out of here and take care of your families with whatever jobs are available in your country and that is IT!

OK, I'm done! :)

When I see something like this...coming from a liberal friend of mine, it really makes me feel better, because I know I am not alone in my views on the subject.

But WHY...WHY...WHY...cannot some of our own DU'ers learn how to fight fair? Why can they not just present their own opposing view...tell us why they believe our view to be incorrect...and REFRAIN FROM ATTACKING US PERSONALLY?

It goddamn hurts. There are days I sometimes really just want to LEAVE DU because it hurts so bad, to be attacked...and to be accused of being the very thing I despise most in all this world...a Freeper!!

[whododayis]

83. bravo! well said indeed.

[Mr_Spock]

65. Good post - I'm one of those too. Progressive, liberal, whatever you want

to call it.

I try to be part of the team - even when it seems like the team is squabbling.

I'll never threaten to leave no matter how many bad days DU has. I expect people to be tolerant when I have a bad day.

I don't care if I pass any litmus test either - because I say so.

Thanks for posting today.

[ScreamingMeemie]

72. I said it somewhere else, but I've taken to book marking the threads

that best show community spirit; the ones where we're calling, or writing, or celebrating some small victory. On crap days, I pull those out and read them. It keeps me coming back.

[Mr_Spock]

81. That's a good idea...

I sometimes have to remind myself of the good days...on the bad ones :D

[faithnotgreed]

66. par for the course im late in seeing this

but i want to offer my humble thanks as well mrs g

even with all you go through - all youve been through - you keep showing up here to fight the good fight
it may feel more like wrestling some days but youre a great example of what makes this the place that it is - and the place we need to keep together

along with others may i add that im happy to see you here most every day even though i dont get to talk with you nearly enough
but even so i recognize that youre someone who does listen and is willing to communicate with love and honesty
and that is something not many can say (in all forms of community)

so heres to that

(i would post the beer glass clanking icon but im so low tech ive not posted a smiley before
so lets just say i owe you one - or thirty)

and i always want to ask how youre doing but i dont seem to be on here the same times as you (and im not in the lounge too often)
but i do very much hope youre doing well
wishing you all good things.....

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. I am doing very well, faithnotgreed.

My issues appear to be in check for the moment.

I confess I ran away from GD a year or so ago. One gets tired and needs a recharge. It's good to be back and fighting...together.

You owe me nothing. Nothing at all. Just your friendship will suffice. :)

***When you post a thread or a response, there is a link in message options (two spaces up from this box) and there is a link for smilies lookup table. Click on it and it will bring up a selection of smilies. Click on one of those and it will add it to your post. :)

[faithnotgreed]

85. thank you sweetie

whatever forum youre in were so glad youre here

and what i should have said about being low tech is that i am intentionally so
i do appreciate your advice though and will keep that filed for when i want to join the 21st century (as my mom says to me since i dont have a dvd player among other things
apparently that means im from the 18th c.)

hope to see you more often
it does matter to me to ask how youre doing so i am glad youre at least in "check" though i understand thats not exactly the ideal

please take good care

[ulysses]

70. that's the picture that haunts me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. Me too. I have trouble with photos of children that are my son and

daughter's age. I used to shun them and not look at them. But it isn't fair to do that. I really can't bear looking at this pictured, but I make myself.

[bertha katzenengel]

71. God blesss you, Laura

I don't say that lightly you know, being an agnostic/atheist. Whatever's out there - may s/he/it bless you richly for saying what is so deeply rooted in so many of our hearts. I wish I could put this entry in MY journal. I love you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

76. Thank you Kim.

My mouse hovered over the "post reply" button for a long time before I committed myself.

I am glad I didn't delete it as originally intended. If you only knew how many times I delete something.

I've missed chatting with you. How are you and MrsV. doing? Both of you are thought of often.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

75. Great post!

Hell, I even disagree on a ton of things with my real-life friends (too many Republicans are here). We don't let it affect our friendship. We argue. Disagree. Argue a bit more. Switch subjects. Share a beer later on. :)

What matters is that I'll stick up for what I believe in and even though I might disagree on a lot of stuff with some of my friends, I know that these are the same guys that would put their ass on the line for me. I would do the same for them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. Hi haruka3...I had my husband tell me to "hush" the other night

because he was afraid I would offend his moderate cousin...IN MY OWN HOME. He was pontificating on just why we are in Iraq. Which I thought was pretty interesting seeing as our present govmnt doesn't even know. I still get along with him quite well. but, he's still an ass. ;)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

79. I had one of those discussions the other night.

Unfortunately, with one of my few friends that turns into "lalalala...I can't hear you, I'm right mode" with any sort of disagreement. Every reason I had for the Iraq war was wrong and while she didn't know why we were there she supported it because the gov't knows more than we do and we have to support the troops.

Apparently, I'm not a patriot because I don't support the war, even though I have a friend over there and I completely support the troops. Oddly enough, she considers herself a liberal. Somewhere along the way, she turned into a liberal-identified Bushbot and my Republican friends started hating Bush. At least, most of my Republican friends turned into Bushhaters. It's a really good feeling.

[Festivito]

80. Having had the opportunity to meet you guys, I must say,

you become more and more endearing.

We'll need good feelings about each other as November looms. Take heart, and clench your buttocks, 'cause it's gonna be a bUMpY ride!

[ScreamingMeemie]

82. Thank you Festivito...The best days are days we are working together

and/or celebrating together. It's a pleasure to know you. We're trying to scrape together a Meetup for MI. :)

[whododayis]

84. I have enough repukes trying to shut me up.

I don't need like minded progressives 'flaming' me because I don't absolutely fall into line with 'their" version of what a liberal is. Remember, we're the party of open minds, great thinkers, and ideas that work for the masses.

[ScreamingMeemie]

86. Exactly. Welcome to DU, whododayis.

:toast:

[Lib Grrrrl]

87. DAMN RIGHT!!!

oh, you just said EXACTLY what has been on my mind during this whole immigration dispute thing. I have been getting ripped apart by some of our own, just because I'm anti-immigration (for reasons of pure selfishness, I'll admit.) i'm anti-immigration because I fear the negative economic impact on American workers in general...and this American unemployed worker, specifically.

I fear the downward pressure on wages forcing me to accept less money than I want to accept for a job, or not getting one at all as a result.

Hey, no one ever told me that - to be a liberal, you had to be completely selfless...to the point where you allowed yourself to be savaged and pauperized, just so that others did better!

No one ever said that, to be liberal, one had to put the interests of everyone else ahead of their own!

No one ever said that, to be liberal...you couldn't look out for your own interests once in a while.

No one ever said that, to be liberal...you had to allow everyone else's concerns to be addressed...and your own needs to go unmet.