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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:22 PM
Original message
My Experiment with Talking to Neocons
Edited on Tue May-02-06 03:32 PM by rpgamerd00d
So, I was over on a "neutral website" (similar to DU), where both sides were allowed to talk and debate. Apparently, this site was spun off of a "conservative website" (similar to DU), by some conservatives that weren't really happy just talking to conservatives all day. When this so-called "neutral" site was first launched, they made quite a few claims as to how really neutral it was, and how they would be "fair and balanced" (rofl) to both sides of the aisle.

I looked at the make up of the site, and it was roughly 3 to 1 in favor of conservatives, as far as registered users went. This seemed good, because I wanted a chance to really knock some Neocon heads together, expose their lies and their intolerance. It seemed like it could turn out to be a decent place to wreak some havok.

It wasn't too long after I started posting there that I noticed that the admins of the board were clearly biased to the conservative side. Many of the liberal posters would get ganged up on in threads, and the mods and admins would do nothing. Yet, in other threads, a liberal would make a comment that the admins didn't like, and the thread would get deleted or locked. Certain topics were Off Limits, like talking about the "conservative website" they came from, or so-called "bashing our troops", yet it was perfectly ok for them to attack DU and insult liberals for being anti-war. They really didn't even try to hide the conservative bias.

But be that as it may, I plodded along, slapping down neocon after neocon, exposing the lies, the intolerance, the blatent bigoty (much of which would turn your stomach if you read it), the racism, the gay-bashing, and of course the fundie religious nuts. As usual, the Neocons would get their asses handed to them, then deny it, launch some personal attacks, and claim victory in the thread. Pretty much what neocons do on every message board. No real surprises there. Whenever a liberal would start a thought provoking thread, the first thing a neocon would post would either be a personal attack, or a "link? proof?" post. Not a braincell amongst them, I tell you.

The double standards were particularly fascinating. A liberal who made a claim was "wrong until they provided proof" and Bush was always "innocent until proven guilty." They claimed it was ok to use the word "gay" as an insult, because to them its not insulting. What? Nice logic, there. When they got caught telling lies or posting incorrect information, it was the liberals job to prove it. When caught undeniably, they simply denied being wrong. Many of them were absolute masters of pulling apart a paragraph or sentence and misquoting and taking out of context whatever you wrote. It really was artful, albeit pathetic.

Every news article from the MSM that was critical of Bush was "crap", an every one favorable was "In your face, Libs!" Certain news sources went from credible to suspect within the span of a single post, according to what the neocons needed them to be at the time. All the liberal-biased sites were a joke, but the neocon sites were, of course, totally credible. The media was "liberal", even Fox News, according to neocons.

In the end, I witnessed perhaps the saddest thing of all during my experiment. Liberals were being corrupted by the Neocons. Yes, as sad as that sounds, the liberals that weren't careful began to drink the Koolaid. As I watched it happen, I was able to see just how the neocons did it. They just ganged up on people. Alone, a neocon is pathetic and insignificant, and no match for a Liberal. But they sensed that weakness, and overcame it through group attacks. We always joke about the Neocons always acting in lock step, but its really not a joke. Its real. Even though they would have no arguement, even though they knew for a fact they were wrong, they would wade in, one after another, with insults and derrogatory comments, and "owned!" pics, like a gang of thugs until continuing rational debate was impossible.

This is the lesson that we, as liberals, should learn from this experiment. Neocons are worthless and pathetic alone. They have no power, no valid position on any topic, and are dying out in America. Liberalism is the rising force, as it always has been. The way to defeat the neocons is to deny them the only power that they have - the power of peer pressure. The power of brainwashing thru repeating lies over and over, and en masse. Keeping them divided is the easiest way to victory for Democrats in 2006 and 2008.

Whats the most satisfying from this, is that the Neocons are obsessed with me. In fact, I bet they will quote this post on their site. You know you're doing something right when they are obsessed with you. :) (Right, Kobati?) :rofl:
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. here is what has been on the other side of my attempts...
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. neutral underground? Was that the name of it?
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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm not sure we're allowed to post the names of other sites, are we?
p.s. yes.
:)
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I got an invitation to join their boards a while back
Edited on Tue May-02-06 03:31 PM by Selatius
Yeah, no thanks, not after lurking there for a bit. I'm a left libertarian. I have a tough time finding a niche here. Why the hell would it be easier with more right authoritarians? Most of their arguments were built on personal assumptions passed off as fact.
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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Exactly. All talk, no facts.
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400Years Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. "neutral" underground?
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Bok_Tukalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good Post
<ope>
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Dude, I read some of your posts.
You were your own worst enemy.

Jeeze louise, don't represent me any more, anywhere, okay. :crazy:

And who has the obsession, the guy on the otherside or you, the one that posts about it? :freak:






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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Have some more Koolaid! :rofl:
:spray:
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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Kobati
Immoral Clarity Advisor
Join Date: Mar 18 2006
Posts: 1,048
Sweetest nectar, re: Evor:
I thought this would be coming soon.



Hook, line and sinker!

:rofl:
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. From my experinces with so called neutral both sides presented sites
is that its all BS, the cons can do or say as they pleased and anyone with a different point of view was wrong and deleted. One such site delt with people from one county in michigan and talk about kool aid drinkers. The major city in the area was a GM city, the other was Dow chemical. The cons were always talking about how great things were in the GM city, lots of jobs, new houses being built ect ect. Yet ignored the fact that since 1980 GM factories and foundries had closed down, in 1980 there were 6 GM fatories and 4 foundries as of this year there are 2 GM factories, one Delphi and one foundry left. Pretty much the unemployment rate is the second highest in michigan and the crime rate is sky high, plus the city has laid off 40% of its firemen and police because of tax loss. The only new business that has come into the city are the 3 new Wal-Marts, the new homes that are being built stay on the market for years, no one can afford to buy them, but hey according to cons the houses just being built is a good sign that things are great. One idiot con was saying how the high prices for fgas and heat were also good for the economy and was proof how great the city was doing, well his thinking was everybody buying gas created more jobs. When it was pointed out that such stores as Sears, J.C.pennies and others were closing their doors and leaving, this moron said that was just more proof that things are getting better, in his opinion those stores were to expensive and thats why they closed, Wal-mart had nothing to do with it. Besides those stores had unions and needed to be closed, never mind the fact that the guy was a GM union worker, the unions needed to be shut down, though he got upset when asked why he didn't either quit his job or opt out of the union. He said he couldn't do that because he couldn't afford to lose his pay check. I got a life time ban from said site for calling this guy out on his BS.
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mourningdove92 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm gonna miss you over there Evor!
But I agree with your synopsis. Don't know how much more time I will spend there. It's getting kind of lonely in there for a lib.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Never debate with irrational people

I think that's why most of the liberals on that site avoided you like the plague, too. You left that part out.

Something else you forgot...

:cry:

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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Just A Regular Keyboard Warrior Are Ya?
Wow

now go talk to some real people too

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. I naively joined a similar "neutral" site...and was even invited
to moderate. this was before I came here.
I was basically the only liberal moderator out of 8. There was another "democrat" who switched to republican soon after I joined.
I ended up leaving because once I saw how it was moderated, it was very obviously coddle the misbehaving republicans and gang up on the liberals.
When I warned a republican for an offense, I was countermanded by the rest of the group.
even though I followed their rules in public, privately among moderators I expressed my concern.
It came to a head when we moderators were ordered to remove all threads about nixon when he died that weren't lavishly worshipful.
I had a problem with that.
Finally, the site owner asked me if "I really wanted to be there".

it was such a farce, so I took the hint and left. When that happened, that meant there were NO liberal or democratic moderators at all, and the most virulent rightwinger that excelled at the personal attack filled my spot (yeah, he was the one I kept warning).

I checked back in on them occassionally, but it appeared on the surface at least to have not improved at all.

I think the problem is there is no polite way to discuss politics with the current flavor of republican.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. What you're describing is every Internet argument
in any forum, any topic, since hypertext markup language met packet switching. The tricks are the same and the progression of the discussion is always the same. It's a bizarre phenomenon, almost like a script. There are still some old websites out there mocking the phenomenon: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/ among many others.

That said, I agree that neocons are the absolute worst. Consider that they have to have a psyche that allows them to support Bush. No matter what. And ask yourself, why would they suddenly get honest ON THE INTERNET of all places if they can support Bush in everyday life?
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. I just checked out that website
There are a bunch of people who signed up on March 18, 2006. I am guessing that's when the site started. Yet there are people with 1000, 1500, even 2000+ posts already. That's over 40 posts per day, every day, no holidays. That's not a website; it's a vomitorium. You're better off banned.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. LOL - it looks the OP used that site as his vomitorium.
According to the thread they created in honor of this thread and according to his profile, he had 50 plus posts a day. Check It Out

It looks to me that the OP turned on everyone and spammed the board. The social experiment that is that board is very interesting. I have found reading many of the posts to be enlightening and some entertaining.

Yes, it does appear that the conservatives outnumber the liberals, but I don't know if that can be blamed on the site or the conservatives. If we want to be heard, we must speak up. Simply talking with folks that share our visions doesn't get us very far. It surely hasn't helped to bridge any divides. If I can say one thing about the posters there it is they all, lefties and righties alike, passionately care about the nation.

The OP is mistaken if he believes that every conservative/republican is a neo-con. If he was spouting the same type of rhetoric as found in his OP above at that other board then I am sure he was given a hard time. I would have to say that it appears that when he was at that site, he was no longer in Kansas. A whole other world was before him and he just didn't handle it well. It almost appears as if he suicided himself there - begged the admin and mods and posters to ban him.

I did enjoy the reading and recommend others go read when they have time.
Don't forget to bring the popcorn :popcorn:



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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. You want to join a free-for-all
where the cons may outnumber you but the mod doesn't come down on ANYONE'S side? Try the about.com Civil Liberties boards. The freepers aren't any sharper, but at least you're not battling the site as well as the cons.

Something to consider.

I gave it up some time ago. Couldn't handle speaking to the perpetually (in)correct.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. Gosh it must have been hard being the only TRUE liberal there...
...and knocking all those Neo-con* heads together while the rest of us liberals sat back with our feet up drinking our Kool-Aid, whispering to each other: 'Are you hearing the siren-song of those Evil Neo-cons that Evor is always warning us about? It's sooo purty! Let's sit here on our lazy arses, sipping some more of our communal Kool-Aid while our self-appointed superhero and protector, Evor, goes out and slays himself some Evil Neo-cons!' ;)

To be serious, I was wary of what NU would be when I first joined up, but I've tussled with some conservatives and didn't find that the admins were biased towards the conservatives. In fact, some of them are liberals, so imo they're doing a pretty good job at keeping the moderating unbiased so far. And I've dealt with more than one of the mods so far, thanks to a few long tombstoned DUers who took it upon themselves to descend on the place and follow me around abusing me. They dealt with that situation really well, which they wouldn't have if they were anything like what you said they were. Let's face it. There's liberals and conservatives who aren't well suited to being members of forums where people of different political persuasions mingle and socialise and argue. They're the folk who see a place like that as a battlefield to slap down the opposition, wielding The Truth like it's the holy grail, and determined to pummel them into silence for good. The fact that opposing views are allowed just proves the complete bias towards The Other Side that the admins have, right? Sorry, but while I quiver in fear at the thought of being accused of drinking Kool Aid, I have to admit that I don't think yr suited to forums where people of the other political persuasions are allowed to post. While I cringed at posts by some of the conservatives, I also cringed at some of the Evor posts...

* conservative and Neo-conservative are two different critters, y'know....

Peace...

Violet...
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dlong514 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. Not quite the whole story...
I don't think the admins or moderators over there are as biased as you think. I think you did a whole lot of provoking when you could have been more cool-headed. You got into a fight in almost all of your threads. As you know, a certain hot-headed conservative was banned over there as well. For, more or less, the same reasons. Yeah, there are some conservatives who are mainly interested in personal attacks (and some aren't), but you made yourself a target for it, unfortunately. When you ignore those types and stick to talking with the more rational ones, everything works out for the better. There may even be some agreement ... which is something we all need to work towards these days.

I've had some decent discussions with many of the conservatives there -- without it going down the toilet.

I hope more liberals from DU check it out over there. It's actually pretty decent -- though it could definitely use some more liberals to balance things out a bit.
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FruityNuts Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. I agree...
I agree with dlong514. I understand that there are several liberal moderators in additon to the conservative ones. But, if you go onto any forum with guns blazing you're gonna get pounced on hard by the other side. I don't think it's the admin/moderator's job to help you in that situation. You got in it by yourself.

I've been posting for quite a while and haven't once been warned, edited or disfavored in any way.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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dlong514 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks for the welcome :)
Heh, I've actually been a lurker here for quite some time. I just haven't posted all that much.
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Left Coast Lynn Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. LiberalUnderground.org and NeutralUnderground.com
Are a couple of sites I post at occasionally. Both have debate between left and right, and I think they're ok to mention here.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wow, really interesting.
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