The War’s Liberal Enablers

[marla101]

Interesting read
http://www.counterpunch.org/donnelly05012006.html
Accountability is no longer creeping, but racing up on the Bush gang. No, not the shuffling of the decks chairs --- the "transfer" of Karl Rove; Scott McClellan’s Snow job replacement; or even Scooter’s spilling the beans on the deliberate misleading of the Plame Grand Jury. Nope. It’s the big brass Rummyache that’s got the roaches scurrying. If Rummy goes, who would make decisions for the Decider-in-chief?

All this is quite entertaining and offers hope, but it also brings up: where’s the equivalent to the Generals’ accountability call on the other side? Who’s holding the failed Peace Movement’s feet to the fire? Where’s the call for replacement of its inept, ossified misleadership?

Can it actually be that the same folks who always claim that the military is "hide-bound and incapable of change" have less insight and less accountability? Yes. And Yes.

The ABB Delusion

After producing an Open Letter to Sen. John Kerry prior to the 2004 election that laid out all the relevant issues, United for Peace and Justice (UFPJ - the paymaster cartel of Peace groups) quickly took his No for an answer and endorsed the disastrous ABB gambit. Perhaps a factor was that over 100 of the groups under the UFPJ umbrella received money from the foundations controlled by Teresa Heinz (Kerry)? Money from Heinz and George Soros led to Global Exchange’s role in starting both UFPJ and Code Pink.
------

Global exchange, UFPJ, Code Pink all funded by the Kerry?? No wonder the peace movement has gone nowhere. I don't believe for one minute that Kerry actually wants to end war anywhere. During the 2004 democratic convention he wouldn't even let people express their anger about the war. People were locked up in cages called 'free speech zones' which is why it is ridiculous that Kerry would come out with some 'right to dissent' speech now. If these groups are being controlled by him(don't be naive-you know that is how it works) is it any wonder that the peace movement hasn't gotten very far? Look at the millions of immigrants in the streets- something is very wrong with the 'opposition' to the war.

Let's see our peace groups are controlled by Kerryco, congress(including Conyers, Waters, Lee, Murtha, Lynn Woolsey etc) just gave Bush the green light for Iran with the "Iran Freedom Support Act"....on the same day they are holding a hearing on Iraq.....? Something very fishy is going on....

[mike_c]

1. welcome to DU!

You'll get flamed for criticizing the Kerry wunderkind, but there are lots of us who share your disdain for the "congressional peace movement leadership" (I never thought I'd type those words in the same sentence!). Not after the IWR. It will take many years, and the ouster of many democratic incumbants, before that score will be settled!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

12. no no-- it's allowed (generally)....

Read the rules if you have any questions-- god knows you shouldn't take my advice!

[marla101]

15. Does it say we cannot talk about the faults of democrats?

How can we point the finger at the Republicans if we cannot look at the log in our own eye if ya know what I mean.

besides I was talking about the groups who are leading the peace movement. We need to look at where things are getting hung up. How do we get congress to start serving the people?

[The Magistrate]

17. Actually, Ma'am

The rules specify that criticism of Democrats is to be of a constructive nature.

Blaming Democrats for everything from the war in Iraq to the failures of the peace movement to gain nationwide traction in the early going is at best borderline, and is in any case a waste of effort, that will only have the effect of assisting Republicans.

Political success requires opposing a single enemy, and turning all ire in that single foe's direction.

[marla101]

2. We cannot allow Kerry or Hillary 2008

We must demand a real primary where WE elect a REAL LIBERAL DEMOCRAT! Like Dennis Kucinich!

With diebold, and Kerry's connections....it is possible that WE did not chose him!





more...
And, just as Bush would have the public swallow the very same lies all over again re: Iran; the UFPJ wing of the Peace Movement is gearing up for yet another unquestioning, pro-war Democrat endorsement in 2008. In election year 2006, we have yet to hear any clarion call, or even a peep, from the movement elders (and, yes, "elders" is the correct term) calling for opposition to every one of the Democrat war hawks now up for reelection. (Oh, they’ll gladly do it for the Republicans)

Historians will find this lack of accountability in the Peace Movement as a major cause for the prolongation of the Iraq war and quite possibly the reason Bush and/or his successor was able to also attack Iran.

[The Magistrate]

19. Oh, Thank You So Much For The Laugh, Ma'am

Rep. Kucinich would not get twenty percent of the vote even in a Democratic primary, let alone a national election.

Perhaps the difficulty resides in your view of what constitutes a "real Democrat"....

[blm]

36. counterpunch would attack Kucinich as a phony for all the issues

he has sided with Republicans over the years.

They hate ALL Democrats and Kucinich would be just another target for them. Wellstone was more liberal than Dennis Kucinich and counterpunch tried to get rid of him, too.

[Carni]

28. HELL Yes!

Let's add lots of jugglers mimes and clowns (with bongos and nude people) to the next Dem candidates entourage.

The nude thing goes over real well--in fact let's throw some bondage and fetish type shit into the commercials for the next Dem Pres.

[karynnj]

34. Yes, you and counterpunch will likely be the first to prove that

Kerry stole Iowa with Diebold machines. (People will forget that it was a caucus.)

This is the most insane bit of nonsense that I have ever seen - Certain people in Counterpunch have hated John Kerry since he was a 27 year old war hero who was far more persuasive than they were. I seriously doubt that Teresa Heinz Kerry funded the peace movement.

I seriously doubt either Kerry had anything to do with UFPJ.

[Carni]

44. Counterpunch sucks IMO eom

[LittleClarkie]

39. Would you like to lose like McGovern?

or would you prefer Dukakis?

But at least we'd go down passing the purity test. Yep, that'll make us feel better I reckon.

Most people couldn't remember Dennis' name, bless his heart.

[rockymountaindem]

60. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! That's a laugh riot! Where do you live?

Look, Kucinich has every right to run and raise his issues. I believe candidacies like his are important because if nothing else they widen the scope of debate. But you must be living in the heart of liberal-land if you think Kucinich is going to get 25% nationwide. Here in the reality-based community realize it's going to take someone with a modicum of mainstream appeal to win.

How exactly did Kerry rig the Democratic primary? There aren't *any* voting machines in the Iowa caucus. That's what a caucus is! Do you have any idea what you're talking about? I don't think you do. Of course, you might just be a troll, in which case you definately don't know what you're talking about.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Erm, I'll take Al Gore behind Door #2008

But I think it's the Bush Administration that has the lack of accountability and is the "major cause" for the prolongation of the Iraq war-- NOT the "Peace Movement".

[Terran1212]

3. Kerry I think used to be the hopeful idealists we at DU are

He's been jaded since he entered politics and has stayed there for a while. The idealist Kerry that asked the Congress, "How many more people have to die for a lie?" was more in line with our thought, I think.

Unfortunately the war has many "liberal" enablers. That's because America's "liberals" are just slightly less-right rightists. We have a strong left in the nation, but they have very little voice in media and government.

Peace and justice.

[karynnj]

35. Read his April 22 speech

Kerry is the same Kerry he always has been -

[Karenca]

4. interesting..........thank you, -- nt

[LoZoccolo]

6. Counterpunch: a favorite publication of the famed disruptor seventhson

I believe they published the story about Haitian men growing breasts on account of something Gen. Wesley Clark did.

What Democrat have they ever liked?

[LittleClarkie]

42. Dennis Kucinich, but only just barely

Nader all the way, baby.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Consider your source

Counter-Punch had numerous editorials in the months before the 2002 elections about how Paul Wellstone wasn't liberal enough to deserve re-election. I don't pay much attention to anything by so called "progressives" who believe that the Senate and the country is somehow better off without Paul Wellstone.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Adelante]

13. Gee, this all sounds so familiar

Where have I heard this routine before? Hmmmm. Oh, well, welcome to DU :hi:

[marla101]

14. you have heard this before?

where?

I am struggling to figure out why there are millions of immigrants on the streets but the peace movement with many of us crying out BEFORE the war, nothing has happened to stop them. They are now trying to sell war in Iran, and no is stopping them. Only 21 congressman voted against the Iran Freedom Support Act and I am wondering why.

I am also wondering where you have heard this discussion because I am dying to talk to someone who knows what the fuck I am talking about!

[Adelante]

18. Oh, everyone here knows what the fuck you're talking about

Not to worry.

[marla101]

20. eh?

well then explain to me what is going on?

[The Magistrate]

21. It Is, Ma'am

Something as familiar as the opening Pawn to King 4, and many here can accurately predict the first dozen moves of either side....

"There is nothing new under the sun."

[marla101]

22. I guess I am stupid

but I have no idea what you are talking about.

I am just wondering what anyone possible explanation is for the peace movement being so ineffective? I would like to stop Bush from attacking Iran before it is too late.

does anyone know why so many progressives in congress voted for the Iran Freedom Support Act?

This is a very strange discussion.

[The Magistrate]

26. Why Is The 'Peace Movement' Ineffective, Ma'am?

Why is the sun hot?

Why are hungry men surly?

Peace movements are always ineffective. The bulk of the populace view them as cranks, and political professionals know they are largely led of unreliable splinterists.

You are yourself attacking the elements of the political spectrum with the least power, and the smallest conceivable degree of responsibility for the policy you oppose. That sort of behavior gives people pause....

[incapsulated]

27. bwhahaha!

I'm trying to figure out who or what, other than Kuch, you supposedly consider worthy of support. That is quite a list you have going there, everyone from Conyers to the PDA is impure and now Cindy has been taken under the nefarious wing of Code Pink.

This is all highly amusing, please continue...

[blm]

30. Yeah - while you're figuring it all out factor in THIS - GOP operatives

have been infiltrating the left and POSING as left journailsts for DECADES. Lucianne Goldberg and David Horowitz earned their creds within the Republican party by acting as faux lefties.

counterpunch rarely attacks BushInc directly - they prefer attacking Democrats - ALL Democrats - no matter how liberal they are.

Be suspicious of counterpunch - they aren't the ones who uncovered IranContra, BCCI, CIA drugrunning and the illegal wars in Central America - Kerry did and REAL journalists like Robert Parry.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_dynamicdems]

81. LOL! WELL put! n/t

[LittleClarkie]

65. That would be a fellow DUer you're smearing there. Can't have that.

I think you've got the tinfoil on a bit tight. You're starting to see a conspiracy behind every tree.

[SPKrazy]

9. A Kerry Bashing Thread, Is This Your First Thread?

:popcorn:

Have a great visit!


:rofl:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SPKrazy]

11. Double Uhhmmmm

"Global exchange, UFPJ, Code Pink all funded by the Kerry?? No wonder the peace movement has gone nowhere. I don't believe for one minute that Kerry actually wants to end war anywhere. During the 2004 democratic convention he wouldn't even let people express their anger about the war. People were locked up in cages called 'free speech zones' which is why it is ridiculous that Kerry would come out with some 'right to dissent' speech now. If these groups are being controlled by him(don't be naive-you know that is how it works) is it any wonder that the peace movement hasn't gotten very far? Look at the millions of immigrants in the streets- something is very wrong with the 'opposition' to the war."


----------

To me this doesn't sound like anything but a Kerry bashing thread


:popcorn:

enjoy your stay

[marla101]

16. okay I admit it

I don't like Kerry. I think that Bush was the easiest president to beat ever. I think he had to try and let Bush win and when Kerry won anyway, he looked the other way at election fraud even though he had millions in the bank to fight it.

But that was just my comment....the point of the article, which you should read, is that somehow the peace groups have been enabling the war to continue...

[The Magistrate]

23. Do You Seriously Believe That, Ma'am?

Are you seriously contending "peace groups" are allowing the war to continue?

As a matter of curiousity, how much power do you think "peace groups" have?

Whaty do you feel "peace groups" could do that would force a halt to the war?

[marla101]

25. well

they could march on DC when congress is in session and Bush is there and make them see and understand what WE THE PEOPLE means.

As it is, they usually plan marches on the weekend, cloud them with too many issues and other things that make them ineffective. Last weekend it was in New York. Do you think that had any effect on anyone in the government, the people who are actually making the decisions? That is what protests use to be for.

[The Magistrate]

29. And That Would Have What Effect, Ma'am?

Do you imagine that would grind the present regime to a halt, and somehow prevent it from pursuing a policy it is decided upon?

It would have about the same effect as a spitball launched against a man in kevlar.

[marla101]

41. camp casey on DC

Everyone could march on DC and stay as long as it takes.

As it is, the peace movement hasn't even gotten through to the out of iraq caucus- many of them just voted for the Iran Freedom Support Act. I am sure I sound like a broken record but I just think there is no excuse! The sanctions killed millions in Iraq and then they invaded them anyway. Now we are getting ready to do the same in Iran and again there is no evidence. Iran is 10 years away from a nuke and anyone can see this administration wants to attack Iran. I can't understand why the 'out of iraq' caucus doesn't see it.

[The Magistrate]

45. And Again, Ma'am

How would that force an end to the war?

How is not having done that "permitting" the war to continue?

How does not having done that prove the peace movement is really under the control of rightist elements, as you have alleged?

[blm]

38. That's the corporate MEDIA protecting Bush from the left and protests.

The corporate media that worked overtime to protect him throughout his first term and worked to tear down any Democrat who opposed him, especially Kerry.

[TayTay]

40. But the peace movement has racquetball on Wed

and Thursday is that PTA meeting and Friday is just too impossible to even think about. Mom can take the kids on the weekend, so I say we end the war on Sat. (Don't even think about Monday or Tuesday. We have those big meetings and that dinner to go to. It just doesn't work at all.)

I think we should get Kerry and the Mrs to try and screw up the peace movement on Sunday. I'm free Sunday and the Senator can call and ask me and the nefarious minions to call our buddies at Code Pink and get them to acquiesce to evil on Sunday. Sunday generally works for everyone.

If you insist on making it Tuesday, I simply can't make it and the peace movement will have to fail on it's own. I can only screw up and take over so many movements without backup and support and Tuesday is just impossible.

[karynnj]

52. I agree that clouding them with other issues

is a huge mistake in winning the public. Having the rallies on the weekend is likely because they can get more people then.

[ProSense]

58. That makes no sense!

They could march at Bush's inaugural, wait...they did! Protest can only be effective when timed to coincide with Congressional sessions and staged in DC?

So the LA immigration protests had no impact?

Please!

[blm]

33. Can you name ANY president who has been as heavily protected by the media

as Bush had been throughgout his first term?

Can you name one lawmaker who has worked to uncover government corruption more than Kerry has?

Can you name any ONE lawmaker who has worked to END more wars than John Kerry has?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

46. But an original, extrordinarily weird Kerry bashing thread

All I know was that as one of the people lucky enough to have gone to Faneuil Hall on April 22, I can tell the poster that John Kerry's right to dissent speech was incredibly inspiring and wonderful. The poster should watch the video and then think really hard about what Senator Kerry has done with his life versus what the writers on the Counterpunch rag have done. Kerry is the real deal.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. .

[LittleClarkie]

31. Are there any Dems you DO like?

The only one I've ever seen Counterpunch have even a vague good word for is Dennis Kucinich. Otherwise from Kerry to Dean to Clark, they've blasted and smeared them all.

Counterpunch, the Washinton Times of the left.

[marla101]

37. I LOVE Dennis Kucinich

and the rest of the twenty that voted against the Iran Freedom Support Act.(some of which were not dems like Ron Paul, whom I also love)

I LOVE the democratic ideals. I LOVE the democratic leaders of the 60's. I feel like we really lost something after they killed so many heroes and I desperately want to set our country back on the right track.

[The Magistrate]

43. Which Democratic Leaders Of The Sixties, Ma'am?

President Johnson?

Vice-President Humphrey?

[marla101]

47. Are you serious?

There's the kennedy boys to start with, and my hero Martin Luther King Jr...

[incapsulated]

48. You mean the Kennedy who first sent troops to Vietnam?

Or the one who worked for McCarthy?

[400Years]

83. In all fairness it started way before Kennedy

The United States entered that war incrementally, in a series of steps between 1950 and 1965. In May 1950, President Harry S. Truman authorized a modest program of economic and military aid to the French, who were fighting to retain control of their Indochina colony, including Laos and Cambodia as well as Vietnam. When the Vietnamese Nationalist (and Communist-led) Vietminh army defeated French forces at Dienbienphu in 1954, the French were compelled to accede to the creation of a Communist Vietnam north of the 17th parallel while leaving a non-Communist entity south of that line. The United States refused to accept the arrangement. The administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower undertook instead to build a nation from the spurious political entity that was South Vietnam by fabricating a government there, taking over control from the French, dispatching military advisers to train a South Vietnamese army, and unleashing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to conduct psychological warfare against the North.
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm

[The Magistrate]

54. The Question, Ma'am, Might Be Better Asked Of You

Those two persons were unquestionably leaders of the Party in the sixties, as demonstrated by offices held, and long careers in the Party. By any reasonable standard, they were the Party's chief leadership in that decade. This fact may not suit a romance glazed longing for good old days, but it remains so.

Most of the people who speak of "true Democrats" nowadays would at the time have had very little use for President Kennedy. He was first and foremost a Cold Warrior, and made a mythical "missile gap" favoring the Soviets the chief issue of his election campaign. He was enamoured of covert operations and commanmdo work, and was the real author of the U.S. commitment to Viet Nam.

Dr. Martin Luther King was indisputeably a great man, and a great leader of the times, but he was certainly not a leader of the Democratic Party. Indeed, some of the bitterest opposition to him came from Democratic leaders in quite good Party standing at the time.

"The past is another country."

[Thtwudbeme]

75. Bingo brother! MLK was opposed to the Imperialists.

Including the Dem gods of the time who you mentioned. One of which my wife in enamored with too...RFK.

Of course I'm a younger (38) belated supporter of MLK and opponant of his enemies which would probably be the guy in the picture frame....The crazy anti-commie from the rich prohibition booze running empire.

Glad you pointed that out:-)

[Carni]

49. Lyndon Johnson perhaps?

OK yeah -- (wtf?)

[LoZoccolo]

63. Are you talking about THIS Dennis Kucinich?

How do you know he isn't one of the people allowing the war to continue by your logic, like the peace groups?

[incapsulated]

67. OMG, Dennis is a mole!!

Working for the top secret "Dems Plotting to Destroy the Peace Movement" group or DPDPM, which, by the way, is a subsidiary of Skull and Bones inc.

Well, he had me fooled. :dunce:

[marla101]

50. THIS IS NOT ABOUT KERRY OR COUNTERPUNCH!

It is really about the peace groups who are enabling the war to continue by purposely misleading(see code pink protests at military hospital:wtf: and disabling it by clouding the issues and rendering the whole thing ineffective on purpose! Come to think of it that is exactly what is happening in this thread.

Why doesn't John Conyers understand that Bush is lying about Iran? Anyone? Perhaps William Pitt of PDA should give him a call? Why don't we hold our 'leaders' to task so they will hold Bush accountable.

If you all haven't noticed Bush is getting away with murder(literally) and congress is mostly still going along with it. We are not being successful.

[ProSense]

53. Stop being disingenuous! n/t

[LittleClarkie]

55. You probably shouldn't have made it about Kerry

then, if you didn't want us to react to the insinuation that he and his wife are funding the peace movement just to make sure it's ineffective.

[400Years]

84. Fact is, Kerry ran a mealy mouthed campaign

He didn't have the guts, or more likely didn't really oppose it enough to, come out and openly condemn the invasion of Iraq.

The Dem leadership really doesn't oppose Bush's bloody invasion. Many in the party do oppose it as does the majority of the country, but those who view themselves as the ruling elite don't really care.

[The Magistrate]

56. Nonesense, Ma'am

You have cited a "counterpunch" article, and alleged major peace groups are controlled by Sen. Kerry, in pressing your assertion that the peace movement today is actually a COINTELPRO concoction in service of continuing the war in Iraq and initiating war with Iran.

You do not get to crawfish away from claims like that....

[Adelante]

57. You posted Counterpunch article smearing Kerry and Teresa

What did you expect?

[karynnj]

77. you know someone should tell Counterpunch that they

accomplish the near impossible - Uniting almost all of DU in agreement. That the rag is trash may be the only thing Clark, Dean, Kerry etc supporters all agree on.

[blm]

62. YOU trust counterpunch who hates ALL Democrats - including Wellstone and

Kucinich and every Kennedy.

You want to trust them even though for decades the GOP has successfully placed their operatives posing as left journalists to keep the party divided.

Why would you trust them over the REAL WORK that Kerry has done to END 3 wars? Or the rEAL WORK Kerry has done to actually EXPOSE government corruption?

You think counterpunch funds environmental projects, health clinics for the poor, or peace movements? NO...they only work to TEAR DOWN those who DO THE ACTUAL WORK and fund the actual projects.

What does that say about how gullible they believe people on the left are?

[Warren DeMontague]

59. How about we let these "liberal enablers" run the country for a while

And see if things don't improve. The situation couldn't possibly be any more fucked up than it is now.

FWIW, Lynn Woolsey is my Congresswoman, and we're VERY proud of her anti-war track record.

Welcome to DU.

[wisteria]

64. I don't believe any of this for a minute. We are talking about Senator

Kerry, a dedicated,hardworking, peace seeking public servant. The senator nor his wonderful wife have anything to do with the lack of support for the Peace movements activities. He leads in the Senate.
Sorry, but I find your post unreasonable. bizarre and unfair all at the same time.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. Personally, I still think the Queen of England is deeply implicated

when did that conspiracy theory fall out of favor anyway?

[incapsulated]

69. I think she paid off LaRouche...

In beaucoup Euros!

$$$$$$$

[karynnj]

76. So it was the LaRouche people

They were hanging around with their literture at Faneuil Hall. So, this must be true.

(they really were but were told they couldn't take their literature inside.)

[incapsulated]

79. LaRouche..

Started the stories about the Queen dealing coke, heh.

So, as I said she had to pay him off to shut him up, because he was killing her business, and the Columbians were all pissed off.

[WildEyedLiberal]

70. Did you know that Prince Charles is the antichrist?

I saw a book about it at Barnes and Noble once, and everyone knows that if it's in a book, it must be true.

[Tom Rinaldo]

71. Well of course I don't believe books, but if YOU tell me you saw it

My gut is telling me it must be true.

[JohnKleeb]

72. So you mean that

autobiography I saw by the ugly ass Austrian corporal should be be taken as the truth. Mein, Mein something it was called. :sarcasm:

[Tom Rinaldo]

73. That book can't be true because it wasn't written in English n/t

[JohnKleeb]

74. but there's an english translation

Hmmm what are some crappy books that were written intially in english.

[OneBlueSky]

78. "Where Are the Youth?" . . .

they're glued to one screen or another (tv, computers, portable devices of all kinds) in a massive epidemic of youth escapism . . . tuning in to reality and all its messiness is too painful and too stress-inducing, so they're playing games, watching American Idol, and chatting with friends and strangers alike about meaningless shit . . . no brain, no pain . . .

[JI7]

80. this reminds me of that article on some foreign site

which accused Conyers of being a Bush administration plant.

it makes more sense everyday. we just need to figure out the role of the illuminati and Bilderberg in this. then we will be closer to figuring it out.

[_dynamicdems]

82. You forgot something.....

SKULL and BONES!

All of this was decided when Bush and Kerry were laying side-by-side in a casket during a S&B keg party. They were quite inebriated, but the plan was frigging brill, you know.

John: Oh, Georgie...you are so frigging CREATIVE! We will just walk in and take over the entire peace movement, make it really suck. Then we will get you elected PRESIDENT and you can start the best war ever! I'll even run against you if you are having trouble getting re-elected.

WINK WINK

Georgie: Well, we will need money to fund this. I mean, my family has a bit, but we are gonna need big bucks to take over the peace movement, you know. A rich philanthropist is just the thing we need: a patron for the cause, if you know what I mean.

John: I don't know any, but let me get a uniform, something snazzy and white. Then I can protest the war. That will look really good in the philanthropic circles.

Georgie: You are figging BRIL, yourself John! But you better be careful not to get your ass shot off.

John: I've got that covered. After calculating the odds based on my width vs. the width of a bullet, I think I've got a 98.6 percent chance of surviving. You should join too. Come to Vietnam with me, Georgie.

Georgie: Gee, I dunno Johnny boy. Even five percent is too much risk for me. After all, I'm the one who is going to be president. I can't afford to get my ass shot off. Otherwise how will we be able to start the best war ever?





:tinfoilhat: They're coming for us, now!

[pinto]

85. Locking. The Original Poster is no longer

here.