Just rec'd this email: Working In Mexico.

[Fridays Child]

I have a feeling it's 99% BS, not because I know anything about working in Mexico but because it's clearly intended to provoke xenophobic sentiments. Evidently, it's making the rounds because Snopes is currently researching it. Anyway, here it is, for DU to have a look:

The following from a director with SW BELL in Mexico City.

I spent five years working in Mexico.

I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew it for three more months. After that you were working illegally. I was technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.

During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure a permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the same except hers did not permit her to work.

To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals (not copies) of my:

1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.
2. Marriage certificate.
3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.
4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of graduation.
5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at least one year.
6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no arrest record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good standing."
7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were important to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on earth" letter. It was fun to write.

All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish on the right.

Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied by a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and being photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax, labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the government's actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in Laredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.

We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and under contract and compliance with Mexican law.

We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give a policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it you would have to pay ransom to get it back.

We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages annually.

The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying more fees.

Leaving the country meant turning in the FM3 and certifying we were leaving no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or liens) before our household goods were released to customs.

It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.

The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White House or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and during most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy.

These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.

Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard on illegal immigrants.

[Dr.Phool]

1. My guess is that it's probably bullshit.

I know that when I was in Cancun a few years back, there was a horde of American time-share salesman.

I asked one, what do I have to do to get a job like this. All he said was "Have some good sales experience and you'll have to move here".

[silverlib]

2. Lot's of Americans retiring in San Miguel (sp?)

I don't buy this at all. Lot's of Americans work in and retire in Mexico. My husband and I would do the same if we didn't have family connections here. Retirement funds go much further in Mexico. I have a friend whose son is a free spirited artist living in Mexico and showing his pictures at local galleries. He was 20 years old when he moved there and I can't see him going through any of these hoops.

[LA lady]

3. It's posted lots of places

I googled and found it on lots of sites and none said it was an urban legend so I don't know. It often included the man's name which matched up with the SW Bell info.
I lived in Venezuela for a long time and we had to jump through hoops to do anything. Had to get a Cedula (ID card) and it was hell to get a driver's license, had to take it in Spanish!

I will keep investigating the email

[Fridays Child]

5. Thanks. I'm suspicious because I know people who own homes...

...in Puerto Penasco/Rocky Point, Sonora, and they have no problems like the ones described in this email.

[Broken_Hero]

9. I'm very suspicious also...n/t

[msgadget]

4. I belive the part

about Mexico keeping its people intimidated and compliant. I honestly don't know about the rest of it. I guess it's possible since US companies have to similarly prove there is no American available for some of the H visas, making this gentleman's experience different from someone immigrating over with a pocket full of retirement money to spread through the economy.

[IndyJones]

6. With regards to keeping their people intimidated and compliant

When do the citizens of Mexico decide to take their country and force change? Millions cannot keep pouring into the US. At some point, if they want a better life, they will need to change their own country.

I'm seriously asking. Why do they not force change in Mexico if it is so terrible and they want change so badly?

[msgadget]

18. Their protests are met with strong resistance and brutality at home

but I've asked that same question. That doesn't explain why the marchers and boycotters weren't carrying big ol' anti-trade agreement and anti-Vincente Fox, et al signs. Hell, citizens would've been rallying with them against their true oppressors. Instead, they rallied against the laws of their host nation that prevent them from letting their homelands off the hook. Not exactly a unifying tactic at a time when all of labor should be marching together against exploitation and low wages.

[johnaries]

7. Snopes say research in progress. nt

[SoCalDem]

8. Here's the skinny from an official site..might want to compare

http://www.mexonline.com/visa.htm

[jbnow]

10. That surprised me

Just to be a tourist requires:

According to the law you must have the Tourist Card on you while traveling (make a copy if possible in case original is lost). You can pick up a card at the border, just stop at immigration as you cross into Mexico, parking is available. You must have either a current passport or original birth certificate with current ID. Baja California and Sonora sometimes only require a current ID, but it's wise to check with the consulate first.

I live north and haven't visited Mexico but I never had to get a tourist card for Canadian vacations. I wonder if people from Mexico or Canada have to get one to visit here. Not too expensive, I just didn't know.

Being a temporary resident takes more, but it would.

1. VALID PASSPORT AND ONE PHOTOCOPY.
Passport must have at least 6 months of validity remaining. If person is a legal resident of U.S., a copy of the front and back of the alien registration card is also required.

2. LETTER FROM THE BANK THAT PROVES A MINIMUM MONTHLY DEPOSIT OF ONE THOUSAND ($1,000) DOLLARS PER DEPENDENT
OR
cOPIES OF YOUR BANK STATEMENTS FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS THAT PROVES YOUR MONTHLY DEPOSIT COVERS THE AMOUNT STATED ABOVE.

3. TWO (2) PASSPORT FRONT VIEW PHOTOS
NO AUTOMATIC MACHINE PHOTOS WILL BE ACCEPTED.

4. COMPLETED APPLICATION FORM

5. FEES :
One Hundred Thirty Two (132.00) dollars (U.S.) paid in cash only - no money orders, company, personal or cashier's check will be accepted.

NO RENEWALS ARE DONE AT THE MEXICAN CONSULATE.
You must get in touch with the Mexican Immigration dept. 30 days prior to expiration

But I still wondered about working there

http://www.mexperience.com/liveandwork/working_mexico.htm
I'd have to follow more links to know what is involved but this part surprised me a little.

You are not permitted to travel to Mexico, enter as a tourist and seek gainful employment there. You must have the correct migratory permits to do so before you go.

How do you find a job before you go there unless it is a multi-national company?

But this was funny as we keep hearing about "jobs Americans won't do"

These mechanisms are in place to ensure that you will not be: a) taking jobs that Mexican nationals could otherwise have

It looks like Mexico is big on deportation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigrant
In 2004, the INM deported 188,000 people at a cost of USD$10 million. Most were from Central America.

Looks like countries all over the world are struggling with this issue.

I don't know what rules we have for legal residents here but it can be tough there. It appears they can't own homes or at least land.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/index.jsp?section=papers&code=06-D_18
"Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."

"the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."

There are many articles about illegal immigrants in Mexico but I tried to find one that stuck to the laws, not the stories about their treatment. Even this one is snotty (about should America do this to our illegal immigrants) but the laws check out wherever I look.

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=MEXICO-04-24-06
Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says:

_ "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of 300 to 5,000 pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

_ Foreigners with immigration problems may be deported, rather than imprisoned. (Article 125)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are considered criminals:

_ A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

Things are tough all over. I suspect CAFTA might increase the influx of Central Americans into Mexico.

Reading suggests that Mexico is MUCH better than we are at tracking those with lapsed VISAs and so on. Ours is just a joke.

OK, I am done searching. I'd looked into other countries immigration policies before in case I wanted to run away but I don't think I have what it takes for any other country to take me in. Disability ended any special skills.

I add none of this to accuse or add to angst. If their government is much tougher on immigrants or foreign workers that doesn't speak against their workers here, just about the hypocrisy of their government, but we know about hypocritical governments here.

I was just very curious to sort fact from rumor

[tenshi816]

11. I've backpacked through Mexico

and never heard of the need to possess a Tourist Card! It wasn't referenced in any of my guidebooks either. Very strange. I'm glad I never ran afoul of the law while I was there.

One thing I find very fishy about the e-mail referred to in the original post is that its author said he worked for 3 months on a tourist visa and could "legally renew it for three more months." I find that highly suspect. A tourist visa is just that: a tourist visa. Tourist visas are not the same thing as work permits, which makes me inclined to think the entire e-mail is probably full of distortions, half-truths and outright lies.

[jbnow]

15. I know a lot of people

who have gone there and didn't hear it mentioned, not that they'd have reason to mention it.

I don't know the country but they talk about a Border Zone and you don't need it unless you go beyond there. It's from the link from the link on post before mine where they describe the Tourist card and what the border zone is.
http://www.mexonline.com/visamex.htm


You know in 2008 when we get that horrible Real ID we will need additional ID, a passport or a PASS to travel in and out of Canada and Mexico. That's not their demand, it's ours. Our license (even the REAL ID one) or birth certificate won't be enough.
It's not going over well in northern border states where people go in and out of Canada for work or commerce. I imagine southern states feel the same way. BIG BROTHER anyone, the PASS will eventually have biometric ID.
Here is an article on that from the Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060118/METRO/601180358/1016/METRO05

[Dr. Jones]

12. Hypocrisy!

n/t

[Fridays Child]

13. Yes, even if you accept that it's accurate...

...what in the world does it have to do with how we treat illegal immigrants here?

Is it suggesting that, because they're so tough on people entering and staying in their country, we should be the same way? If that's the point, we probably are just as tough on legal entrants. But we can't do the same with illegal entrants because they're sneaking in. Duh.

Maybe, without stating it outright, it's suggesting that we should make illegal immigration a felony a la Tancredo or Hayworth. That's more likely. And, of course, it uses a petty, tit-for-tat argument to foment anger and xenophobia among its recipients. That's why I find it so suspicious--because it is obviously designed to provoke the reader.

[jbnow]

16. If you read

the end of my post I said the same thing. It speaks about the hypocrisy of their government, not about their people.

In my post I didn't try to check the e-mail. I just checked links about tourism, immigration and work there because I was curious. I tried to find their laws and requirements.

But as I said in the post many countries are struggling with this, not just the US and Mexico. I was making no statement on what we should do here. I think the issue of immigration is being used now to create strife and division, the last thing we need.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Bingo! The short answer should be "so what?"

It's the same kind of logic that said Saddam was a bad guy for killing Iraqis so we'll punish him by killing Iraqis.

[Beacho]

14. The part about buying property is B.S.

My Mexican American godmother owned property all over Mexico, mostly in Baja.

No, she did not have dual citizenship.

[kcass1954]

19. My brother was the finance director in for SWBell in Mexico City a few

years ago. No - he didn't write this crap!

He said that moving there to work was no more complicated than going to any other country to work legally. (He also did a stint in England with Monsanto in the late 80's.)

His family went with him, and they enjoyed it very much. Of course, they were glad to get back home to Texas, but have no regrets about the time they spend in Mexico City.

This is just more anti-immigration bullshit coming from the right.