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He's using the Signing Statements as a Line Item Veto -

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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-02-06 11:57 PM
Original message
He's using the Signing Statements as a Line Item Veto -
When the President signs a bill into law, he issues a letter to Congress that accompanies his signature of the Bill. I've read through a few of them and I began to realize, he's using the signing statements as a Line Item Veto. For example:


The executive branch shall construe subsection 1025(d) of the Act,
which purports to determine the command relationships among certain
elements of the U.S. Navy forces, as advisory, as any other construction
would conflict with the President's constitutional authority as
Commander in Chief.
Provisions of the Act, such as sections 2104 and 6024, purport to
require congressional committee approval prior to certain obligations or
expenditures of funds appropriated by the Act. The executive branch
shall construe such provisions to require only prior notification to
congressional committees, as any other construction would be contrary to
the constitutional principles set forth by the Supreme Court of the
United States in 1983 in INS v. Chadha.
Section 6025 purports to regulate the content of the President's
annual budget submission, which is a proposal for enactment of
legislation to appropriate funds. In addition, section 301 calls for
submission of legislative recommendations by an executive branch
official to the Congress. The executive branch shall construe these and
any other similar provisions in a manner consistent with the
Constitution's commitment to the President of exclusive authority to
supervise the unitary executive branch and to recommend for the
consideration of the Congress such measures as the President shall judge
necessary and expedient.
Several provisions of the Act, including sections 6041, 6042, 6043,
6052, 6053, 6069, 6070, 6071, and 6072 make specified changes in
statements of managers of the House-Senate conference committees that
accompanied various bills reported from conference that ultimately
became laws. As with other committee materials, statements of managers
accompanying a conference report do not have the force of law.
Accordingly, although changes to these statements are directed by the
terms of the Act, the statements themselves are not legally binding.
George W. Bush
The White House,
May 11, 2005.
http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=63037227269+19+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve


Now, I'm no lawyer but in CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,ET AL . v. CITY OF NEW YORK, the Supreme Court specifically stated that this type of activity was not allowed. The President only has two choices, either sign it or veto it.


There are important differences between the President's "return" of a bill pursuant to Article I, §7, and the exercise of the President's cancellation authority pursuant to the Line Item Veto Act. The constitutional return takes place before the bill becomes law; the statutory cancellation occurs after the bill becomes law. The constitutional return is of the entire bill; the statutory cancellation is of only a part. Although the Constitution expressly authorizes the President to play a role in the process of enacting statutes, it is silent on the subject of unilateral Presidential action that either repeals or amends parts of duly enacted statutes.

There are powerful reasons for construing constitutional silence on this profoundly important issue as equivalent to an express prohibition. The procedures governing the enactment of statutes set forth in the text of Article I were the product of the great debates and compromises that produced the Constitution itself. Familiar historical materials provide abundant support for the conclusion that the power to enact statutes may only "be exercised in accord with a single, finely wrought and exhaustively considered, procedure."
Chadha, 462 U.S., at 951 . Our first President understood the text of the Presentment Clause as requiring that he either "approve all the parts of a Bill, or reject it in toto." 30

What has emerged in these cases from the President's exercise of his statutory cancellation powers, however, are truncated versions of two bills that passed both Houses of Congress. They are not the product of the "finely wrought" procedure that the Framers designed.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=97-1374


So, under our Constitution, these signing statements have absolutely no authority. If the President signed the Bills into Law, that's now the Law. If based upon his perceived inherent Constitutional authority, he chooses to ignore specific sections of the laws he signed, he would be in willful violation of not only letter of the law but the spirit as well. He can't simply sign a Bill into Law and then state which parts of the law he's going to ignore. If the Bills have statutes that are unconstitutional, then he must Veto the Bill and send it back to Congress for review or to be over-ridden by a 2/3 majority in the House. This is not simple ignorance from a bumbling Chimp, this is arrogance, pure and unbridled.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
1.  who told him
he had the authority to do this? who is the one who decided this was legal under the constitution of our country? he certainly didn`t think this up on his own because he does not have the ability to do so. so who is the mystery person behind the curtain?
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Probably Gonzalez...
He's also the one who "legalized" torture. So, this is hardly his worst offense.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. i was thinking that myself which
would make sense. the whitehouse`s tasid approval on the attacks of the federal court system and it`s judges would lead me in the direction of gonzo. i`m sure harriet has a hand in this two. she`d do anything for her hero, even ignore the constitution of her country
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Which is why he probably chose her...
her belief in the "unitary executive" and her cavalier interpretations of the law was all the heart Bush needed see. However, I'm not sure she could so easily overturn a prior ruling of the court. It's pretty clear that to allow the Line Item Veto, a Constitutional Amendment is required. Like I said, I'm no lawyer but it seems pretty cut and dry.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Alito and the Litigation Strategy Working Group
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/12/24/alito_backed_immunity_in_wiretap_case/?page=2

snip>>

"But the release also included a six-page memo written by Alito to the working group dated Feb. 6, 1986.

Alito proposed a ''pilot program" to have Reagan issue ''signing statements" laying out the president's interpretation of legislation he signs into law.

When asked to interpret ambiguous laws, judges often look to its history, such as statements by Congress about the legislation.

Alito said that putting the president's interpretation of the law on record would ''increase the power of the executive to shape the law."


1986 memo, 6 page pdf file, a must read in my opinion.

http://www.archives.gov/news/samuel-alito/accession-060-89-269/Acc060-89-269-box6-SG-LSWG-AlitotoLSWG-Feb1986.pdf

snip>>


February 5, 1986

TO: The Litigation Strategy Working Group
FROM: Samuel A. Alito, Jr.
Deputy Assistant Attorney General
Office of Legal Counsel

SUBJ: Using Presidential Signing Statement to Make
Fuller Use of the President's Constitutionally
Assigned Role in the Process of Enacting Law.

"At our last meeting, I was asked to draft a preliminary
proposal for implementing the idea of making fuller use of Presidential
signing statements. This memorandum is a rough first
effort in that direction.

A. Objectives

Our primary objective is to ensure that Presidential signing
statements assume their rightful place in the interpretation of
legislation. In the past, Presidents have issued signing statements
when presented with bills raising constitutional problems.
OLC has played a role in this process, and the present proposal
would not substantively alter that process.
The novelty of the proposal previously discussed by this
Group is the suggestion that Presidential signing statements be
used to address questions of interpretation. Under the Constitution,
a bill becomes law only when passed by both houses of
Congress and signed by the President (or enacted over his veto).
Since the President's approval is just as important as that of
the House or Senate, it seems to follow that the President's
understanding of the bill should be just as important as that of
Congress. Yet in interpreting statutes, both courts and litigants
(including lawyers in the Executive branch) invariably
speak of "legislative" or "congressional" intent. Rarely if ever
do courts or litigants inquire into the President's intent. Why
is this so?"
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Consiglieri Alberto, of course. . . . n/t
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. "A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier,"
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."

http://www.konformist.com/2000/bush-dictator.htm
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Reagan begged for it, Clinton wanted it too....
Edited on Wed May-03-06 12:53 AM by LaPera
But the democratic congress and the republican congress, respectively, refused to grant the Line Item Veto...Its NOT constitutional, yet Bush is doing it anyway...The arrogance is shameful, disrespectful and despicable...

But just like breaking the law on eavesdropping on American citizens, Bush really doesn't care, the end justifies the means...Bush must really & absolutely know that via Rove's manipulations and the electronic voting machines, he's going to finish out his sleazy term and continue his neocon, fascist ideology and agenda. So what difference do the polls make? Bush must already know nothing can stop him, its in the bag...As he keeps rolling along...Up next after November is getting their foot in the door to destroy Social Security(and perhaps even outlaw unions)... Oh how the rich will praise and love him, forever...
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Clinton actually had it for a time and used it...
that was the back-drop for the sited case.


The line-item veto had been a hallmark of the GOP "Contract With America," when Republicans took control of Congress in 1994, and was the only plank of that agenda that Clinton supported

In a written statement, Clinton said: "The decision (by the Supreme Court) is a defeat for all Americans, it deprives the president of a valuable tool for eliminating waste in the federal budget and for enlivening the debate over how to make the best use of public funds. ... I am determined to do everything in my power to continue to cut wasteful government spending, maintain fiscal discipline and create opportunity through continued economic growth."

In addition to allowing him to strike specific projects from spending bills, Clinton said the line-item veto was useful as a negotiating tool -- a weapon to discourage Congress from adding pork-barrel spending to legislation.

Key Senate supporters of the veto power, Sens. Dan Coats (R-Ind.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) said they would try to work around the court's objections, perhaps by requiring each spending item to be sent to the president as a separate bill.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/06/25/scotus.lineitem/


But you're dead on about Bush and his nefarious antics. However, the Law exists and Justice does come, even if it shows up a day late and a dollar short. There's going to be a reckoning, mark my words.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Your correct, now that I think about it...
Edited on Wed May-03-06 01:04 AM by LaPera
Still, the Court ruled it...Unconstitutional, no?

I you guess you already stated it or am I missing it?...with your your great passionate reply that I may have misinterpreted..."However, the Law exists and Justice does come, even if it shows up a day late and a dollar short. There's going to be a reckoning".

Great work mikelewis!
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oscar111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. ALL vetoes are antidemocracy
Edited on Wed May-03-06 05:10 AM by oscar111
You increase democracy when each official has a smaller and smaller base of voters.

eg, more democracy with three hundred million "officials", than with one elected official for all of the US. Do you see?

With just one, or just a few officials, only the big vote blocks get any official for their view: the tiny minority views get no official to speak for them.

Now, look at the prez. He is based on a very big block of voters, and only speaks for them. So he is far less of democracy than Congress, which has hundreds of smaller vote blocks.

So which way of deciding laws is more of a democracy... lawmaking only by Congress, or lawmaking that includes a president?

Obviously, the purely congress method. To increase democracy, end all presidential veto rights. Keep him out of law making. Let him only enforce the laws.. BTW, enforce all of the laws. Not just ones he likes. The OP was quite right on that idea.

End not just line vetoes, end ALL veto power by a prez. Let Congress have the final word on making laws. Better, let the citizens vote on any bill, and be our Congress. Then end Congress. Have the citizens make the laws by direct vote every week. Democracy. Not some scheme of having "representatives of you" make your laws. You vote direct. That is democracy.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. While that is a utopian idea...
it would hardly be practical. I too believe in the spirit of what you write but "voting direct" requires a block of voters who are informed and dedicated to understanding the laws that they pass. As we have seen over the last few years, the populace is easily manipulated by short-term "hot-button" issues and do not have time to engage in the deliberative process necessary to not only understand the laws they are voting for but able to see the long term ramification of the passing or denial of a Bill. While you might be in the minority of people who can think "long-term", you're hardly the norm.

Representative Democracy can and does work if, and only if, there is true Representation of the people. This system has been usurped by the Love of Money. Politics is now more concerned with the distribution of wealth and not the distribution of justice. The citizen has been reduced to a number; how much money does he have and how much is he willing to give me to get what he wants. This was clearly not the intended purpose of this Republic.

But, I do whole-heartedly agree that there should be greater representation of the people in our Government. Most Politicians scorn the input of the "commoners" and go so far as to even attack a large portion of their constituency. They have become Partisan Politicians who only think about the good of those who donate to thier campaigns and forget that they are there to represent the good of all their people. I'm not sure that your idea of a true Democracy would work any better than what we have now because the end result would be the same. You'd still have the Rush Limpballs and Hannities of this country, helped by a corrupted media, that the people would rely on to "explain" the bills. You'd also have the problem of not only running a weekly nation-wide election but ensuring that rampant fraud didn't rule the country (as it does now). To switch to a true democracy wouldn't really alleviate the problems we are having, it would probably just add to them and create even more opportunity to rook the good people of America. To switch to your idea of government would also require that we invalidate our Constitution and install an entirely new one in it's place. I'm not so sure that could be done or that I would support that. Our Constitution is fine, it's the assholes who are running the asylum that need to be changed.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. who is gong to stop him?
congress? lol! :(
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. nobody, so he may as well get it over with
and crown himself Dictator
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. It's not that simple...
There was a time I thought he was invincible; that the Neocon stranglehold on America was absolute. That time has long since passed. He has claimed authority through the Divine Right of Kings and that Authority has been denied throughout history. His too is being challenged on many fronts; most of them covert. There is an even great force working against him; himself. It has been said that a house divided against itself cannot stand and he has claimed his right to rule through the very person who uttered those words. History has shown that Evil cannot further the aims of Good and Evil can never prevail. That is the natural order of things.

"When I despair...I remember that all through history, the way of truth and love has always won. There have been murderers and tyrants, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it ... always."

So don't despair, even if he should lay claim to dictatorial powers, they will be a heavier burden than he can bear. His house will be divided and it will fall. The only sad thing is, he will take most of America down with him but that too will be for the best if it should happen.

If George should crown himself King and the people allow one man to erase our common bonds and replace it with one we all find hideous and unnatural, then America is not the shining city on a hill we were told it was. It is not the pinnacle of civilization and the hope for all mankind. In the end, it too will be just another country that grew rich in pride and fell; a victim to lust.

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. the omnes I've read (several now) generally address reporting
requirements to COngress, which he intends to IGNORE.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. i, unblock, am actually in charge of the entire country
the constitution is expressly silent on the notion that i, unblock, do not have the power to create or alter laws or to execute them as i see fit.

since it does not support that crazy liberal idea that i DON'T have these powers, logically i must be in charge of the country.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
15. What he is doing is BREAKING THE LAW.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. He's using the Signing Statements as a PAPER SHREDDER!
Of the US Constitution, Bu$h putatively said: 'It's just a god-damned piece of paper.'

Bu$h Shredder Fodder:

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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. A lawless president continues to call himself a "strict constructionist"
Edited on Wed May-03-06 03:05 PM by charles t
and continues to get a free pass from a spineless media.
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