So what's the difference? $$ directly from Abramoff vs his Clients?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

First of all, No Democrat got $$ from Abramoff directly.

Secondly, Democrats did get $$ from Abramoff clients. Isn't the question here whether or not Abramoff TOLD his clients to give to a Democrat, in return for a special favor or vote that he orchestrated? We don't know yet, correct?, if this occured. I would think that those Democrats who refuse to return their money, like Patrick Kennedy, are probably whistle clean. The reason I ask all this is because I don't want any surprises and I would love it if we were in a position to know for a fact that all Democrats are clean on this scandal..

And lastly, I wonder, Abramoff took great pains to set up these schemes where monies did not come directly from him, but through a middleman company or organization. Why then, did Abramoff give directly to Republicans, in some cases?

[papau]

1. Tribes gave money to Dems before Abramoff - and now after Abramoff

Seems the Dems actually advance the goals that the tribes have - like better education, etc.

The tribes in general were not chasing the GOP goals - tax cuts - except for the Abramoff clients money that went to the GOP.

[babylonsister]

2. Abramoff gave directly to repugs because the money is

considered a bribe 'for favors'. That's why bribery was one of the counts he pleaded guilty to.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. We need to stop calling the tribes as Abramoff clients.

They are Abramoff victims.

[fishwax]

5. good point n/t

[Atman]

4. This isn't that hard...

The clients are/were still legitimate organizations with legitimate concerns and legitimate business before the congress. Indian Tribe X has just as much right to donate money to a congressman as anyone. And they did.

But, at the same time, Indian Tribe X retains Jack Abramoff to help them with a specific issue before the Congress, not realizing they are being played. The republicans are attempting to say that because Indian Tribe X gave money to Democrat Y, and since Abramoff had Indian Tribe X for a client, that somehow it means the Democrat Y "indirectly" is involved with Abramoff.

Kinda like if you took your car to a garage for repairs, and later found out the same garage also repaired Sammy The Weasel's mafia mobile. To a desperate GOP hack, that would mean YOU are connected to Sammy The Weasel.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. right, I know that. My question was, Is it true, that we really don't

know if ANY of the donations to Democrats, regardless of source, led to special favors, by Democrats. You are right, today, the GOP is trying to assert that Democrats are involved in the scandal too. My point is, that we are not 100% sure that this is not correct. The truth will eventually come out, I am just over-anxious.

[fasttense]

13. Howard Dean said on CNN the other day that

"We" looked those lists over carefully, "We" scrutinize those donations or something to that affect. He implied that the Democratic party carefully reviewed the money distributions of Abramoff and his PACs and NOT ONE Democratic politician took money from Abramoff.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. great !! thanks !!

[TomInTib]

6. With direct contributions one gets direct access. nt

[SoCalDem]

7. The main point should be that ALL "gifts of money" are BRIBES..

We need to start calling them what they are.. Why would corporation/client/company "A" even bopther to 'give money' to ANY congressperson/senator if it did NOT expect something in return?

Evben in the most benign connotation, it's still a bribe.

The general public elects a person to office TO REPRESENT THEIR values and hopes & dreams.. We PAY for them in VOTES, and expect them to do OUR bidding, and because some DC lobbyist start slinging cash their way, their votes get changed, and legislation to screw the people who voted for them gets enacted.

The whole issue of lobbying is the problem.. republican/right-wing/democratis/whatever..

Our elected officials are really just PEOPLE..peop,le with kids, house payments, car payments, tuition bills.. They are used to saying and doing whatever is necessary to get elected, and it just spills over into their personal lives when opportunities arise..

I would prefer to pay them more money as salary and just outlaw ALL lobbying. The stuff our side lobbies FOR is kind of a no-brainer, and they need to be called on their non-support, but
why not just pay them better and let the benevolent groups spend their money on grassroots ideas instead of trying to buy or rent legislators?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. I agree, raise their pay. And then, have government financed

elections and have public forums and have TV donate equal time. It's the only way we will be able to take back the government...

[wryter2000]

8. Just because his clients donate to someone...

Just because his clients donate to Dems doesn't mean that he influenced them in any way to donate to Dems. If my literary agent and I both donate to PBS, that doesn't mean one of us directed the other to donate to PBS.

Every bit of evidence suggests that he had no interest whatsoever in donating to Dems. He certainly didn't need Dems to make lots of money.

[Little Star]

11. As I understand it

its legal versus illegal. His clients donations fell with-in the law, in lots of cases his direct contributions maybe bribery. Just my understanding and I could be wrong. I'm sure someone will let me know if I am wrong and I gladly accept their constructive criticism.

[JetCityLiberal]

12. My Senator Patty Murray responds to her tribal donations

after the sleezy Seattle Times took her to task for not returning their contributuions to her.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002732284_wedlets11.html

snip...

Senator secure outside lobby

I'm writing in response to "Murray should return tainted money," , regarding campaign contributions.

You are right about one thing: This story is all about appearances.

Jack Abramoff never darkened my door, and, as you wrote, he never donated to me. In fact, he sought my defeat by contributing to my opponent in 2003."

more at link. Go Patty!