When can a law be broken?

[Klukie]

At the risk of being flamed, I will open up this debate. I have been reading all the various thoughts/arguments on the whole immigration issue and the question of law always comes to mind. I suppose I should state how I feel on the subject so there is less misunderstanding, however I reserve the right to change my mind if someone puts forth better reasoning. I agree that corporations need to be fined heavily for the exploitation and hiring of illegal workers. That should be the first and foremost step to stop the flood of people into America. If we cut off the work there would be less temptation to cross illegally. I am all for immigration but I truly don't think this country can sustain the amounts of folks coming here presently. Immigration needs structure. We need to live in the here and now and that requires structure in the form of immigration laws. That brings me to the question of when a law can be broken? I think most of us agree that the corporations are the ones responsible for this problem, however does that make an illegal immigrant any less responsible for breaking the law? Should the law bend for circumstance? I know that this won't be a very popular comparison, but here it goes. Everytime I think of circumstance and law I think of how Bush breaks the law and justifies it with 9/11. I absolutely know that these are polar opposite issues, but in the end aren't both parties breaking the law for their circumstance? Any thoughts?

[meegbear]

1. Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving family

[WindRavenX]

2. When the law is unjust

Laws do not make morals, but they reflect current morality. And sometimes, oftentimes, it is unjust.

[mondo joe]

8. And that's something abortion clinic bombers would agree with.

So simply feeling a law is unjust may not be a comprehensive answer.

[fishwax]

11. I don't think that's quite the same thing, because

the laws they're breaking (laws against killing people and against blowing up others property) are not, presumably, laws they think are unjust. They are breaking these laws to protest other (or rather the lack of other) laws. So its different than breaking a law you feel is unjust as an act of Civil Disobedience.

I don't disagree with you that "when the law is unjust" is not a comprehensive answer, but I think the point of attack might be different. People who picket (or lie down in front of) abortion clinics without allowing the required buffer might work as an example, since they are, on some level, protesting the laws they are breaking (those which restrict the space in which they may protest), though I doubt they usually think about it that abstractly.

[mondo joe]

14. Thanks - yes, yours is a better example. -eom-

[WindRavenX]

12. Well, I would argue that they're illogical

...which is part of the problem when addressing this question.

The other problem with asking this question is that it's impossible to answer the whole "unjust/just" problem without writing a book.

I see your point though.

[Imagevision]

3. when push comes to shove

[rodeodance]

4. answer: Only when George W does so

[DUHandle]

5. A law can be broken at anytime n/t

[mondo joe]

6. And part 2: If you break the law how should you do it?

Example A: Civil disobedience - break the law and take responsibility for it - like Rosa Parks, MLK, Gandhi.

Example B: Break the law and hide - like abortion clinc bombers who break the law out of moral conviction and then evade capture.

Example C: Break it and pretend not to - like Bush.

[mccoyn]

7. When I'm going to work.

It takes 30 minutes to get to work at 70 mph, but if I go 78 mph it will only take 27 minutes. At $15/hour thats $0.75. I think I'm entitled to that.

[FSogol]

9. Whenever someone lies about a blowjob. n/t

[adwon]

10. Two times off the top of my head

1. Stealing food to feed the family. While you shouldn't face criminal sanctions for this, you will be liable to pay the victim the cost when you are able. Pretty fair rule, I think.

2. Blatantly immoral law. It also helps if it's unconstitutional. Be prepared to pay the appropriate penalty. If you break a law that you feel is immoral but happens to be constitutional, better vote and pray for legislators who agree with you.

[sonoranleftist]

13. If it's wrong

and most of them are or when someone smacks a rePUKE because they need it.:evilgrin:

[magellan]

15. A law can be broken anytime

Getting away with it (i.e. no law enforcement around, there are legitimate mitigating circumstances, etc) is another matter.