So today I snapped at an elderly man pretty harshly concerning his sticker

[noahmijo]

bumpersticker wouldn't fit but anyways you know what I mean.

Yea this 70 or 80 something year old man was coming out of his nice shiny Buick which had a sticker on it that said "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than Ride with Ted Kennedy" something like that.


So while walking by I said "Well not me, I know how to swim but I haven't learned how to dodge quail load yet when its being discharged by some idiot who thinks I'm a fucking bird"

He gave me this look as if I, a child in his eyes shouldn't be speaking to him like that.

Which is why I said right then" and furthermore I really wish you old fuckers would start fighting the wars you start instead of sending kids my age off to do the fighting and dying for you. Obviously no one robbed you of a healthy childhood, but you seem okay with robbing 20 somethings of theirs today."


Nope sorry ZERO that is ZERO respect for any "elder" that supports the death and destruction of babies, children, ANYONE who was robbed of what these aging bastards take for granted.

[donco6]

1. So, did he swallow his dentures or what?

Dayum!

[hopeisaplace]

294. "did he swallow his dentures" ohmygawd, you made me laugh with that!

thanks, I needed that!

[Duer 157099]

2. oh SNAP!

Bravo! you tell that mf'er. Age is no excuse!

(or you could have just said "there's no fool like an old fool" -- but what you said was good

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. YEAH! Maybe you made him think twice about his dumbass bumper sticker!

Did he say anything to you? Or did he slink away like the rest of the repuke snakes always do when confronted?

[noahmijo]

4. slunk away...actually almost felt sorry for the dude....ALMOST

On one hand I want to bring myself to feel bad you know but...ugh I'm just not that good of a person yet

[Yupster]

41. No - you don't sound like that good of a person to me

Accosting old people on the street when you don't even know them is pretty sick in my opinion.

But you had a good reason of course. Imgine that guy had the audacity to have a bumper sticker expressing a view that you don't agree with. Why he's lucky you didn't knock him unconscious, and you just cursed him out instead.

Reverse this situation and have a young fundy cursing out your grandmother on the street for having an anti-Bush bumper sticker. I bet you'd think that young guy was one f*^@*d up sucker. Think what this guy's grandchildren are thinking right now of you, whether they're liberal or conservative.

You need to get things in perspective. You don't go cursing out people because they have political viewpoints different than your own. What's the matter with you? And you especially don't do anything threatening to old people. What the f^&$'s the matter with you?

Do you think you could find him to apologize though apologizing doesn't seem like enough? You need to make amends in some way in my opinion to make clear that you believe everyone has a right to express their political opinions without having to worry about their safety.

[sendero]

168. You're funny..

... exactly what in the OP post suggests to you that the man had any reason to fear violence?

It is a leap of logic typical of the right wing. The difference between the left and the right is that the left will tell you off, the right will wait until you are in the store and key your car.

[Clark2008]

174. Speaking harshly is accosting?

The First Amendment doesn't agree with your assessment. The OP didn't threaten any violence - the bumper sticker came closer to that than anything the OP said.

Was it rude? Yea - but so is supporting an unnecessary war that kills thousands of innocents.

[Pierre Trudeau]

183. you Americans are confused about "respect"

I've come to the conclusion that those of you who insist on treating opponents with "respect" will soon be drowned in a sea of jackboots.

These folks aren't just "people with different political viewpoints", they are FASCISTS.
They DON'T THINK. They cannot be reasoned with. Their "viewpoints" don't need to be "respected", no matter what age they are.

The only way to deal with them is to show contempt, not respect, and it's also important to publically humiliate them.
Don't worry about "hurting their feelings", because they certainly don't give a shit about yours. Make sure that everyone in the immediate vicinity hears what a fool they are. Show NO mercy.

By being "respectful" to people who don't deserve respect, the language and mentality of fascism gradually becomes normalized in everyday discourse. Before you know it, fascistic behaviour is fully accepted, and it's more difficult to oppose it because earlier, you showed "respect" for these "different political viewpoints".

Do you think the Nazis would ever have risen to power if everytime they tried to walk down the street, ordinary germans would routinely punch them in the face and humiliate them??

[Dorian Gray]

203. PT....

"Do you think the Nazis would ever have risen to power if everytime they tried to walk down the street, ordinary germans would routinely punch them in the face and humiliate them?? "


I don't know if this is the reaction that you wanted.... but BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Probably NOT!

I'm still giggling.

[alcibiades_mystery]

351. Amazing, isn't it

As if punching people in the face and humiliating them for their positions isn't the essence of Nazism.

What trash.

[Marie26]

225. See, I think that opinion is facism

If we lose our common humanity, then we've gone over the edge. "Show them no mercy!" "They DON'T THINK", "Their "viewpoints" don't need to be respected". "Show contempt, publically humiliate!" The language in that post is violent & dehumanizing. I can just imagine taking some left-wingers w/this perspective, lining them up against some right-winger w/the same perspective & watching the violence begin. Do you think the Nazis would have risen to power, if people treated all religions & races w/respect & dignity?

227. do people confront fascists more openly in Canada

if so, that is beautiful. I have seen it rarely here. I mostly come across fascist types in the workplace, and as authority figures. You get a bullseye on your back very fast in those situations if you show their stupidity in public, unless you also have a friend that is higher up.

[Mr_Spock]

234. I completely agree with your statement!

The repukes threw decorum out with the bathwater, they will get NO RESPECT from me until the move toward FASCISM ceases.

[treestar]

273. Great post! I've been hearing about how we should take the

high road for 30 years. 30 years of respect and politeness and we are just that much farther to the right.

Damn right THEY won't be nice. They deserve every bit of it.

[baby_mouse]

327. Good... ;-)

This is good...

[freefall]

201. No one is dying for noahmijo's opinion. Plenty of innocents are dying

for the opinions expressed by that old man. He deserved to be cursed out and the criminals he supports, Bush and Cheney, need to be tried for war crimes. Your attitude of granting unearned respect to people due to their position, age or whatever is part of the reason we are in this mess. The old guy earned that cursing out.

Peace,

freefall

[Marie26]

226. No, he didn't.

Unless you want to be intellectually consistent & say that everyone w/a liberal bumpersticker deserves to be cussed out, as well. How about just having a little respect? That old man could've fought in World War II for all we know.

[redqueen]

285. What have liberals done to deserve cursing out?

Who among us is so passionate about defending and propogandizing for those who start unnecessary wars, ending so many lives?

You seem to think the scales are balanced.

I STRONGLY disagree that that is the case.

[Marie26]

292. According to a right-winger,

liberals deserve to be cussed out for our America-hating, terrorist-loving, baby-killing, Godless agenda. That's their perspective - so, I guess a conservative can & should come up to me & start cussing me out for having a Kerry bumper-sticker? Maybe throw in a few insults about how I probably want to make America communist? Well, why not? It's all in your perspective - to a brainwashed conservative, it's liberals who are the true threat to America. Which is nuts, yes. But they feel justified, so can they feel justified in treating people on the other side as badly as they want? I'd sure hope not. How about just treating people w/respect as a general rule?

[redqueen]

297. The only thing that begins to compare is "baby killing"

And yes, I've been cussed for supporting that, just for being in line at a Democratic function. Then again I'm in Texas, so it's to be expected I suppose.

Sorry, Marie26... I'm not saying it's a great thing that people on our side have reached the boiling point, and are throwing it back in their faces... It's not. It's ugly. But have you considered that perhaps it is necessary? Liberals have not acted like this, the way many conservatives have acted, for decades now, and we've been taking it the entire time.

We did not start this ideological war. It was thrust upon us. I would not react the way noahmijo did... but I cannot in good conscience harshly criticize him for it, either. Say it was not the most productive way to handle the situation? Sure. Chastise? No.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but turnabout is fair play. They have earned this contempt. They have earned this and this will not be the last encounter. I'm sure there are plenty more like noahmijo who have not yet reached that point. Let's see what happens in Iran... this may be the 'turning point' the theo-cons never saw coming.

[woo me with science]

347. No, he chose the civilized route.

He bought a damned bumper sticker to express his opinion.

[zanne]

202. I agree on some level.

I love old people. I plan to be one myself someday. Dissing them is definitely not cool.

[karynnj]

218. excellent post - this behavior is uncalled for

and has no concievable chance of changing his view - it's just rude.

[redqueen]

281. I agree the cursing was over the top.

If the opinions could have been shared in a way that would encourage communication that might have been better... but think of this Yupster... these people are scared. Apparently we have troops on the ground in Iran NOW... they're probably concerned that they'll be called up... and running to Canada is not an option anymore...

[GrumpyGreg]

5. Shame on you--he probably fought in WWII or Korea.

Young people used to respect older folks and you should have just kept your mouth shut.

Why on earth would anyone accost a stranger for his political views,especially an old man.

[amitten]

6. Ditto. He may be in the wrong, but he didn't deserve a lecture

littered with obsceneties.

And believe me, his generation had their fair share of military action, and you and I have a lot of freedoms now to thank them for.

And by the way, picking on the elderly is a damn small way of behaving. If you don't respect your elders, then I don't see any reason why they WOULDN'T be perfectly happy to send your ass overseas.

[noahmijo]

9. Well he went out of his way to show pride for fucking me over didn't he?

so he deserves a pass just like that? lemme tell you something his ass will die peacefully with his small retirement fortune.

I don't have to respect anyone that sees me as an expendable asset.

[amitten]

22. He never said any such thing to you. You're inferring this from

a single anti-Kennedy bumper sticker.

You need to take these things less seriously or you're going to start having aneurysms!

[Yupster]

45. He expressed his political opinion

and you don't agree with it.

That's your problem, not his.

Free speech is great as long as you agree with it. Everyone else needs to shut up or they'll have you to deal with.

And you think you did just fine, huh?

[400Years]

213. noahmijo was exercising his/her free speech

what's wrong with that?

[One_of_8]

313. A young man approaching an elderly man

and cursing at him for his bumper sticker, and no seems to imagine that this might have been frightening to an elderly man. Imagine you are in your 70's, you don't see as well as you used to, you dont' hear as well as you used to, and for damn sure you don't run or have the ability to physically defend yourself as well as you used to. A young man approaches you on the street, and addresses you in an irate manner. You don't know this guy from Adam, and if he gets this upset about your bumper sticker, what else might he do? That thought or something similar is probably running through the elderly man's head. It for sure would be running through mine, if a young freeper male approached me in the street and started yelling at me for my bumper sticker.

The end result, the elderly man has had his worst opinions of "them liberals" confirmed, and is telling this story far and wide to his circle of acquaintances as yet another reason this country is going to hell - "them damn liberals."

If you hope to change someone's viewpoint, cursing at them is usually counterproductive. I agree the bumper sticker is ridiculous. I think it would have been better to simply make a joke about it, such as "I'd rather be on Medicare Plan D, than go hunting with Cheney" or "I'd willingly go hunting with Cheney, if he'd agree to use his Halliburton profits to reduce our national debt." Or something along those lines.

[400Years]

318. my point still stands regardless of the "old man's" emotional trauma

I was responding to the poster who said noamijo didn't respect the man's free speech, which is a bullshit claim. By using your own free speech you are not limiting another person's free speech.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[400Years]

214. bullshit

[Marie26]

228. That's a whole lot of assumptions

He sees you as an expendable asset? Because he doesn't like Ted Kennedy? That bumper-sticker wasn't even about the Iraq War, yet you assume he supports the war, supports a draft, sees you as an expendable asset & deserves contempt, cussing, & humiliation. Over a bumper-sticker. Dear God. What makes it worse is that he didn't even cuss you out right back (as you richly deserved), or say one word to you after that rant. Maybe he wasn't slinking away in shame after the rant; maybe he was running away because he felt like you might go off on him. Poor old guy.

[noahmijo]

7. Because when you support a man who is killing people my age

and is laying a deficit which I will be paying the bill for over the next 20 years.

Get it straight buddy I got every fuckin right to lay a piece of my mind on these bastards when it is MY ass that is paying for what THEY have created.

If he is a vet SHAME ON HIM for completely pissing on what he fought for.

[GrumpyGreg]

14. And when he was young the older folks were killing young men

his age by sending them off to war.

The human race will never change and he has a right to his opinion.

War is started by old men and the young men and women pay the price.

Chill !!!

[redqueen]

279. And he learned NOTHING from that? And gets a pass for supporting it now?

Sorry... doesn't wash with me.

I don't think the harsh tone or cursing were a good idea... but I can certainly understand and sympathize with the fear and anger behind the sentiment.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. "f he is a vet SHAME ON HIM for completely pissing on what he fought for."

Exactly! If he was a Veteran, he should know better! He should be pissed as hell at what these psychos are doing to his country! My dad, a WWII and Korean War Vet, HATED the psycho-in-chief with every fiber of his being! That man should have crawled in a hole from shame. He needed to hear what you said to him. He doesn't deserve respect. To get respect, you need to EARN IT. Supporting this regime is just plain SHAMEFUL!

[donheld]

20. Don't let'em flame you Noah

People don't deserve respect just because they're old. I can't believe grumpy people are giving you grief over this. :banghead:

[noahmijo]

27. Well thanks for the support man like I said earlier in a way I did feel

a little rotten about it but on the other hand c'mon! look if I said I support Hitler I'm gonna have just a few pissed off Jewish people and maybe a few Gypsies and Polish people get a little sour with me no? well this guy shows support for a greedy bastard who views young humans as nothing more than assets to make himself richer and richer, and even though maybe this year wasn't the year that I got drafted, or that any of my friends over there (one of whom joined up just to get his American citizenship) haven't been mutiliated or killed yet doesn't mean I'm going to be having one of those days and just make it a point to ruin his day with something to think about.

Did it work? course not. He's back at his castle enjoying his stogie and ordering his immigrant maid around.

[Yupster]

47. Or he may be very scared

and may not leave his house for the next week.

[redqueen]

290. Perhaps...

Perhaps it might motivate him to think a little harder about what he's so supportive of.

Perhaps it might make him think all liberals are scary rude people.

You know what? I don't care. He's a grown man. He'll get over it.

I have contempt for him, because he is willfully ignorant.

He wasn't shanked... he wasn't robbed... he was in no way greatly wronged.

[treestar]

275. My grandmother used to wag her finger at me and tell me that

older people command respect. I was probably about 11 when I figured out that no, you earn it, you don't get it automatically from some birth-related status.

[redqueen]

291. LOL... you learned early.

Kudos to you.

[jbnow]

128. It's hard not to say something these days

It's not just the war, it is everything.

The cursing really should be left out, makes you sound like a punk kid more than a citizen who has just had it with support of this group, and the fed up citizen is who you are.

[IndyJones]

135. It was a bumper sticker. So he doesn't like Kennedy. So what?

Get over yourself. Good for him for not sinking to your level and getting into it with you.

[treestar]

276. Come on. The right wing has their views in a package. They

would do it. They assume all of your views from one and exaggerate them. Say you think some environmental treaty might be a good idea sometime. In no time, the average right winger has you pegged as a socialist, feminazi, hollywood elitist, whatever . . . . . . .

The generalization, from that sticker, that he supports Bush is just as good as the generalization that the guy is a WWII vet, and probably even better.

[redqueen]

295. It is not only that he doesn't like Kennedy... MUCH more is implied.

Kennedy's legal battles were HOW long ago?

What he's showing is that he is willfully, blindly supporting this criminal regime.

ALL those stickers do.

Actually, his is WORSE, because it makes light of the fact that our treasury is being emptied to benefit these theo-cons' buddies... the fact that they are murdering thousands, and are intent on continuing to do so... the fact that they are trying to dismantle the social safety net, so that we can return to the 'good old days' when there were rich, and the people whom the rich used as their chattel.

[redqueen]

287. "If he is a vet SHAME ON HIM for completely pissing on what he fought for.

:applause:

[walldude]

8. I respect all people who deserve it... young and old

A guy who goes out of his way to find that hilarious bumper sticker isn't really looking for respect is he?

[noahmijo]

12. No shit and you know what? had it just been a stupid Marriage=man and woma

woman crap (because he's advocating bigoted position that is quite typical around here) I wouldn't have said anything, but the fact that he supports murdering bastard and is proud of it, well what the hell I am a struggling twenty something who has to work twice as hard to make a living thanks to the likes of old fuckers like him who put these bastards into office and are PROUD of it, and by the way I've already spent my fair share of telling off the "Off Roader for Bush" crowd too, so age isn't necessary the qualifier to get heat from me, but it is one thing for a stupid frat boy to get caught up in shit he knows nothing about, but an old man who probably did see other kids die around him war to support seeing MORE kids die in war for lies and greed is by far a worse crime in my eyes.

[TankLV]

73. It's called free speech - YOURS as well as his.

HE put on that bumper sticker, just because he's old doesn't give him a pass.

I would do it too to ANYBODY who is obviously brain dead and LOOKING FOR A FIGHT!

You gave him your god given right of an opinion, more power to you.

To those who say "How would you fell if some asswipe lambasted your ( ) for an anti bush sticker" crap:

I'd be JUSTIFIABLY MAD AS HELL.

These fucking asswipes are WRONG - WE are "correct"/"truth" - it's not an "equal this or equal that" "opinion"! It's a FUCKING LIE, and it's KILLING PEOPLE!

OUR opinon against these CRIMINAL REPUKES is not a all equal to their FALSLY BASED opinion (LIES) of US!

GET THAT THRU YOUR THICK SKULLS!

WE speak the TRUTH while THEY peddle LIES and CONTROL THE MEANS TO AND ARE CURRENTLY DESTROYING US!

It's like being "fair and balanced" by presenting the SWIFTBOAT LIES as equal to KERRY'S DISTINGUISHED RECORD! It's not the same relevancy at all and you should all know it!

I am so fucking tired of all this "RELATIVISM"!

[hfojvt]

127. how about because he's American?

So if somebody puts a bumpersticker on their car that means they are looking for a fight? And anybody who does not know what you know (or think you know) or believe what you believe is "braindead" or a "fu$%ing a$$wipe"?

I guess I would define an a$$wipe as somebody who assaults a complete stranger based on a mere bumpersticker that they disagree with.

'These fucking asswipes are WRONG - WE are "correct"/"truth"'

Hmmm. Well, I usually find it pretty difficult to be correct about everything. The "truth" that the OP flung at the old man seemed like a non seqitur to me. Old people should fight their own wars? Right, and if he is 80, then his generation, perhaps an older brother did fight a humongous war, lead by a Democratic President, in which over 300,000 of them died.

I certainly do not advocate any relativism, I just prefer reason and civility to violence and boorishness.

[redqueen]

299. I agree that a sticker does not mean one is looking for a fight.

However, although I prefer reason and civility to violence and boorishness, I have seen that over the past 20 years our side has endured the VAST majority of the violence and boorishness.

Forgive me for not being too terribly upset that what they have started has now come fill circle back upon them.

[donco6]

30. I agree.

He's wiping his ass on everyone around him, and deserves no respect - elderly or not.

[donheld]

15. Or he may have shirked his duty like *, Cheney and all the other

Chicken Hawks. Maybe he had a boil on his butt like Rush and hid from the military. He showed the old fart the respect he'd earned.

[GrumpyGreg]

21. Not many of his generation shirked their duty. There was no "hiding"

in college to avoid the draft.

[donheld]

23. The old man does not automatically get my respect.

I'm 46 and old enough to know better than that crap. If he is defending Dick Cheney he loses it with me. Leave the kid alone :spank:

[GrumpyGreg]

25. You're a boomer---you only respect yourself..

[donheld]

33. I respect all till they lose it.

Supporting Cheney loses it with me.

[Yupster]

48. Yes how dare someone not support my political side

This sounds like the bleeping Cultural Revolution in China.

[TankLV]

78. NO! How dare someone not support the TRUTH and GOODNESS!

and what is CORRECT and DECENT!

THESE PEOPLE ARE RAPING US ALL and you would have us think theirs it a valid "viewpoint"!

CLUE: IT IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM AN EQUALLY "VALID" VIEWPOINT!

[Yupster]

80. Yeah - we're 100 % right and they're 100 % wrong

and we've dehumanized our opponents.

Hooray.

[TankLV]

100. Yes we are, dammit!

I'm tired of all this RELATIVISM!

Face it!

[Yupster]

108. You've never changed your view on any important issue?

Were you 100 % right before you changed your mind or 100 % right after you changed your mind?

[ShortnFiery]

178. We are NOT going to turn anyone around with being so harsh ...

My parents are (mom) and were (deceased dad) fourty years my senior so I've enjoyed the company of many elderly people who have NOT been properly exposed to "the truth." Some of these are Right Wingers but when you see how they treat people from day to day - their actual behavior, you'd swear they are very sweet and compassionate people who have been misguided, manipulated by fear, and in general, CLUELESS about the true situation in America.

It's only through getting to know people and gently providing them the tools to uncover the truth that we stand a chance in turning around this once beautiful and compassionate Country ... to improve our image to the world.

We do NOT have a free press and ELDERLY People are more apt to believe the lies that this corrupt Administration spews in the form of talking points from day to day.

No, there are some really mean and cruel elderly, but I do believe that they are the exception. I think many ELDERLY Republicans have been cajoled and manipulated. IMO, we need not be nasty to those who are not overtly incurious and misinformed. :hi:

[donheld]

95. Yes how dare someone not let me say something about that belief.

:banghead:

[Yupster]

101. You have a right to tell him you disagree

with his bumper sticker.

You can also ask him if he'd like to talk about it further.

You do not (in my opinion) have a right to rail at him if he doesn't want to discuss it. At that point you are forcing yourself onto a stranger who doesn't want to talk to you.

And you certainly don't have the right to curse at him.

[Mr_Spock]

55. Is that a bigoted statement?

...or am I misunderstanding the meaning of your post?

[tavalon]

184. Nice generalization there!

So, I'm guessing you aren't a baby boomer. Are you God? Or just standing in for him?

[onenote]

248. for what its worth, I'm a boomer and I disagree with the OP

Labelling all boomers is no better than labelling any old person driving a car with a bumper sticker.

This boomer's reaction to the OP is as follows: Jumping on some old guy for what is on his bumper may have made the OP feel good, but it doesn't do shit. If the OP wanted to accomplish something he/she would have tried to engage the man in a discussion, offering his/her disagreement with the old guy's point of view and inviting him to defend it. But it seems the OP just wanted to shout down the old guy.

onenote

[IndyJones]

137. How is he "defending" anyone? He likes Cheney more than Kennedy.

So what? I don't like either one. So maybe I should get a bumper sticker that says I wouldn't drink and drive with Kennedy and I wouldn't hunt with Dick. Would that piss you all off, too? Is that over imposing my beliefs onto the world?

It's a bumper sticker. Get a life if you're going to get your panties in a twist over a bumper sticker.

[Mr_Spock]

51. Maybe old folks should stop thinking "Republican" is "safe"

Because in my book these people are accosting me by telling me they are supporters of killing thousands of civilians for blood sport.

NO RESPECT WILL BE DUE TO ANYONE WHO IS AN ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER!

[jayfish]

189. What A Load Of Bullshit!

This guy advertised his views to the entire world and doesn't expect to get called on it? And who give a tinkers damn if he fought in WWII or Korea, he should know better. That poor baby :nopity:

Jay

[Mr_Spock]

210. Exactly

It's like saying "oh, these people get a free pass and if you criticize them, you are promoting totalitarian government"

What an entire bunch of CRAP!

[callous taoboy]

253. Damn straight, jayfish! Snarky bumper sticker = tongue-lashing. n/t

[treestar]

274. If he fought in WWII (not established)

1. What was he fighting for? He still doesn't know.
2. He lived through it. Some didn't. He's still alive.
3. Why should the random chance to serve in the military during wartime, which is no accomplishment of one's own but just due to the fact of being a) a certain gender and b) a certain age at a certain time give his opinions privileged status? I am tired of that one. And even sicker of their wives who claim privileged status for their opinions because of what their husbands may have suffered, while they were safe at home.

I can feel appreciative of veterans without having to bow down to their opinions. And some of them are awfully right wing for people who "fought for freedom." No, they fought for American dominance if that is their opinion today.

And there are plenty of veterans who oppose Bush, Cheney, wars, right wing platitudes, etc. and don't agree with him anyhow!

And plenty of old people too!

You're talking about giving someone privileged status just for mere age and (possibly) imaginary military service.

And it is a little too easy for a WWII vet for whom it is all long ago and romantic, and who obviously lived through it to be willing to put his grandsons' lives on the line for something that is not even threatening.

[redqueen]

288. Why? You have to ask why?

Some around here are acting as if there's no difference between liberals and conservatives these days.

I beg to differ.

Future generations are being saddled with debts in order to make the rich even more wealthy. Our Treasury is being emptied to benefit the heads of corporations and friends of those corrupt bastards that old fool chooses to remain ignorant enough to support.

Not only that, but they are KILLING people, with OUR tax money, which SHOULD be going to programs to keep us safe here at home, educate our children, and help Americans who need it, etc etc etc. In addition to that, they are bent on dismantling the New Deal programs.

And if he's driving a nice shiny new car, chances are he's supporting these criminal traitors with his income. I wonder if any of his income comes from Social Security, one of the programs the monsters he supports so disgustingly with that sticker would like very much to eliminate.

It would be nice if we could talk calmly and rationally to these people... but if someone such as noahmijo loses their temper with the fools, I for one will not criticize them for it.

[Carni]

316. Gee Dumsfeld is an old man too--does he get a pass?

Clearly the "old man" with the bumpersticker is a Cheney fan (per his own bumpersticker) so he should not be adverse to language like *go fuck yourself*

It worked for big Dick on the Senate floor didn't it?

If he wants to profess his love for a foul mouthed ass he should welcome being greeted with F bombs since the old fart obviously endorses that type of thing.

[bdamomma]

350. used to respect, we used to respect alot of things before this cabal

stole and abused their power.

[Catherine Vincent]

10. I can't believe there are actually people that would put that bumper

sticker on their car. Idiots.

[GrumpyGreg]

19. I saw one here in Massachusetts and I just shook my head.

It's distasteful,but I find a lot of things objectionable and I just ignore them.

Humans are an interesting species.We will all go kicking and screaming and and warring until the end of time.

The animals have it way over us.

[redqueen]

300. Animals don't fight?

Who knew!

:sarcasm:

[donheld]

11. Good for you

He had it coming.

[TankLV]

79. Yes he DID! In a big - in the face - way!

You did fine and PROPER!

DO NOT give any of these asswipes SAFE HAVEN!

NEVER!

[lpbk2713]

13. I'll bet he will never borrow that car ever again.

:eyes:

[w8liftinglady]

17. don't feel bad-I've had plenty of people give me crap about mine..

[txindy]

38. Well, I think those are great.

If I saw you in a parking lot with those stickers, believe me, I'd be applauding. If they bug the wingnuts, they realize the truth behind the words. A random spark connected their synapses for a moment and they understood that you see them for the shallow tools they are. Bugs and rodents hate lights shining on them like that, ya know. ;)

[redqueen]

302. It surprises me that so many still expect liberals to 'rise above' ...

in each and every situation in which it's necessary.

We are not perfect. We are humans, just like everyone else...

There eventually comes a time at which point people will lose their cool.

If you ask me, we passed it a long time ago.

[valerief]

18. Applause, applause. Bravo! You know, this country needs more

military recruiters. Young people should approach old people with W bumper stickers and convince them to enlist. Hey, if they can drive a car, they can do security in Iraq.

[PsN2Wind]

24. 70 or 80 years old

You must have balls the size of snow peas.
Couple more confrontations maybe you can work up the nerve to go after someone in their fifties.

[noahmijo]

26. If it makes you feel any better I've said worse to the frat boy

off roader for bush types that think spending 3 hours a day in a gym makes them hardasses.

But think what you want it's not your ass right? I should lay down and respect anyone even if they view me as just some expendable asset with nothing to lose.

[PsN2Wind]

29. Are you in the military? Been in the military?

you keep talking of someone sacrificing you.
I just don't see getting in an elderly person's shit as anything but juvenile, contemptible behavior, however macho it makes you feel.

[noahmijo]

32. Yea cause you have to be in the military to know sacrifice

Just because you have friends whom you grew up with all your life who write you letters saying how close they came to being killed eh no sacrifice to me though right?

oh and don't forget the fact that it'll be me and my generation who spends the next two or three decades paying off the deficits these bastards with their croony partners in crime which includes people like this asshole who fully supports them eh yea it's all about being macho.

If I wanted to be macho I would've stuck with tournament fighting, this had nothing to do with being macho, this had to do with having a moment where I just didn't feel like keeping quiet and complacent.

[PsN2Wind]

35. Maybe you and some of your supporters

could get together and beat some of those old bastards up. But be careful the old bastard is probably paying for you to go to school.

[noahmijo]

37. Yea I think that about seals your defeat in this argument

avoid the point and make another stupid remark that's good.

[PsN2Wind]

42. Yea and what you think

really doesn't mean shit to me. Coming here with your chest all puffed out because you had the huevos to back down a seventy or eighty year old man. Making it sound like the proudest moment of your life. If that's the best you have to brag about you ain't got much.
OH, Buy a star, they're cheap.

[noahmijo]

46. It's called VENTING so what you never post anything on here

that makes you mad? you never talk about conflicts or encounters on here? that's just stupid proudest moment of my life, and what's this "huevos" bullshit, what you tryin to pull the Spanglish shit with me now or something? ohh I bet you grew up in the barrio now and they taught you to talk like that huh? or that nice Mexican guy you know taught you some words huh? lol whatever keep reading the posts on here and pretend like you're all about being civil and sweet.

adios.

[PsN2Wind]

52. It's not called venting

it's called bragging about your ability to bully a seventy or eighty year old man. "Conflicts or encounters" is bullshit, you went out of your way to get in the face of and elderly person and ran here to tell of your heroics.
For your info, if you were born in the 80's, I beat you to South Tucson by more than twenty years.

[Jazz2006]

154. Yep. Bullying an old man seems to have made the OP feel pretty good.

NOT impressed.

At all.

It sounds like something a FReeper would be proud of and would brag about.

It sounds horribly wrong to me.

[Marie26]

235. Agree completely

If he's really going to cuss out someone, why not the bodybuilder w/a W sticker? Why an elderly old man who can't fight back? It just seems like a opportunity to take out his aggressions on someone who's less powerful & more easily intimidated. Lame, lame, lame.

[Dorian Gray]

220. Sorry....

what's this talk about the "barrio?" Just because someone used "Huevos" in a conversation? This post is borderline racist.

[redqueen]

307. It's VERY telling...

sad that they're able to get some perfection-expecting liberals to start agreeing with them.

[redqueen]

306. Chest all puffed out?

Did you read the thread? He was actually remorseful, but feeling conflicted about that remorse, and that's perfectly logical!

Oh and now you're cursing noahmijo... see? It's human to lose your cool once in a while. At least he had a good reason.

:hi:

[IndyJones]

140. Good point. Have a point. What was yours? Assuming that man's

beliefs over a bumper sticker saying he doesn't like Kennedy?

Or did you flaunt your testosterone to an old person so that you could come here and "brag" about it? Ohhh, wow, you're a hero!:sarcasm:

[redqueen]

308. I did not assume he was 'flaunting testosterone'...

I got the impression, quite logically, that he lost is temper.

It's something that humans do from time to time.

And the characterization of the OP as bragging... well that's just weird.

[Mr_Spock]

56. That's an infantile statement

How are you supporting your position with such an inflammatory post?

[treestar]

277. OH come on, this is bigger than that. If we fight Iran, kids could well

end up in the military who don't want to be. They have the draft set up. Anyone liable to it could be forced in, and has that shadow over them. It might not seem like such a shadow if they were sure of an honest leadership who wouldn't send them into war unless necessary. But we already know the present administration will send kids in to die for American dominance, not defense from any true threat.

I remember a kid in my seventh grade class wondering if, 7 years from now, he'd be in Viet Nam. It was a possibility.

[IndyJones]

138. His bumper sticker told you all that?

[mtnsnake]

205. I'll bet you have!!

Give us all a friggin break, will ya

[Dorian Gray]

28. Eeekkkkkk.....

I hope he didn't borrow that car from somebody else.

[Yupster]

49. What difference does that make?

Everyone should have the right to express their political views without getting cursed out for it.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dorian Gray]

221. Huh?

I know you are using that language to make a point. I understand the point, but I don't think it has much to do with the OP or the bumper sticker the OP said he ranted about.

[Dorian Gray]

198. Of course...

I was pointing out one the variables which might have confused a poor old man. At least if it was his bumper sticker, he'd know what he was being cursed out for. Regardless, this incident probably only enforced his beliefs that people who didn't agree with him were assholes.

Personally, I lean on the towards the idea that yelling at ANYbody, particularly an older person, is in bad taste. But, then again, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

[DetroitProle]

31. sorry, I wouldn't speak to anyone like that

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, but I don't go around calling complete strangers, "fuckers".
Who even knows what his story is? Chances are he fought in WWII or Korea. He may have borrowed the car.

And your last lines are very telling...it sounds like something the anti-choice folks like to use on people like me...BABY KILLER! SUBHUMAN! HE SHOULD BE SHOT FOR HIS MURDEROUS WAYS!

Nope. Not the way I operate. I believe in meaningful political discourse. It's a cornerstone of democracy. Not to mention my inherent aversion to profanely accosting elderly strangers.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. When you start yelling or cursing at someone, they completely tune out whatever you're trying to say.
He probably just went home thinking, "what a lunatic/asshole". That little exchange was about as productive as slamming your hand in the car door.

[noahmijo]

34. I just think he should be forced to sacrifice for what he stands for

instead of making me and my generation sacrifice for it.

Meaningful discourse went out the window back when I was born in the 80's and if he had fought in a war before, as I said earlier that makes him even more shameful for wanting to see MORE kids die MORE deaths, MORE bombs MORE gore, MORE destruction.

This wasn't a moment where I was trying to be productive, this is a moment where I just got tired of someone outright telling me that I'm nothing but an expendable asset.

[DetroitProle]

39. if you were just venting, that's fine

We all have our times. I know I do.
It is CERTAINLY an exaggeration, however, to say he was outright telling you that you were an expendable asset. BY DEFINITION, he would have had to come up to you and say just that.
I was born in the 80's too, and have many qualms with the older generations. I also don't believe in respect being inherieted through age.
But also, I don't believe in accosting strangers.

[IndyJones]

143. How did that old man OUTRIGHT tell you that you're an expendable asset?

Are you on something there? How do you connect the dots from driving with Kennedy/Hunting with Cheney to "expendable asset"?

Sounds more like you went out looking to pick a fight with someone and you chose someone you viewed as weaker than yourself and pounced.

[Dorian Gray]

222. How do you know that's what he stands for?

Maybe he bought the car used, and the sticker was already on it. Maybe he borrowed his daughter's car for the day. Maybe he just thought it was funny but doesn't have much of a bone in the political race.

I do think you are making assumptions about the old man.

[Marie26]

240. What makes you think he didn't sacrifice?

If he's in his 70's-80's, he likely served in World War II.

[GoldenOldie]

40. As an elder who has listened to my peers support this idiot,

I have sometimes lost it with them. I am unable to comprehend how they could have lived through the depression, WWII, Korea, VietNam, Civil Rights, etc., etc., etc., and be able to support this illiterate, spoiled rich kid who treats our Republic as a toy to be played with and rules and laws have no meaning to him. I look for signs of senility in them as an excuse, yet they appear to be healthy and well educated........I am totally stumped.

As an elder, knowing that you and my children, grandchildren and all those that follow will have to deal with this ungodly mess......GO FOR IT.

And I'm an Arizonan.

[redqueen]

310. We all lose our tempers from time to time...

It's something to learn from, not be attacked for.

Thanks for posting... poor noah's getting piled on.

:hi:

[DetroitProle]

36. here's a fucking idea for all you rabble-rousers

What if we, for one second, pretended we were a civilised society of rational individuals in a Constitutional Democracy? Let's see...
we all seem to have at least gotten the shit-eye for our bumper stickers, cussed out, or even our cars vandalized. What if...
Instead of cursing at each other, Republicans and Democrats would calmly approach each other and say, "I strongly disagree with your bumper sticker", and then, calmly, rationally, and omitting profanities, gave a clear, coherent, reason-driven(not emotion-driven), answer(without making personal attacks or assumptions about the other person) and then let the other person speak. If all else fails, agree to disagree.
It wouldn't hurt, since the vast majority of the population is already on our side, and God knows reason is too.
Of course, all this is fantasy.
So go ahead, cuss out everybody who has a bumper sticker you dislike. Don't forget to incriminate them personally, such as by their age, weight, gender, or shoe size. GodDAMN those fucking honor roll student parents! Just keep an eye on your blood pressure.

[Common Sense Party]

65. AMEN. Civilized discourse, anyone? nt

[TankLV]

86. Right, while they are plotting to ship us all in the boxcars.

Right.

I'll play the gentleman while they fight in the gutter.

NO FUCKING WAY!

THEY started this "war" - WE don't intend to lose it!

These people support TORTURE - as long as THEY are the ones DOING it!

These people support ATTACKING PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY REASON - but would be upset if they were attacked similarly!

These people support STEALING ELECTIONS - as long as THEIR SIDE wins - no matter what the VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THINK!

These people support SENDING OTHERS TO FIGHT while they safely stay at home!

These people support BIG GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS FOR THEM whild bitterly complaining about the poor and helpless.

These people would rather KILL THOUSANDS, MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PERSONS instead of letting one criminal go free while WE would prefer the occasional criminal go free INSTEAD OF KILLING ONE INNOCENT PERSON!

In short, THESE PEOPLE feel emboldened to offer up thoughts and espouse beliefs - CRIMINAL, INHUMANE, GENOCIDAL - that only a generation ago would have not even been said in hushed wispers!

Think about that!

Sorry, no quarter for CRIMINALS, THIEVES AND LIARS or their SUPPORTERS!

[Yupster]

92. Yeah what a gutter fighter that geezer was

it's amazing our hero only cussed him out.

[TankLV]

103. Yep - I want to make it so the climate returns to a time where thoughts

like "a dictatorship isn't so bad as long as I'm the dictator"

or "Hitler wan't so bad"

or "Torture by us is OK - it's only "rendition"

are thought so awful, that persons will be afraid to UTTER THEM ALOUD!

You're damn straignt I am!

And you and your fellow travelers JUST DON'T GET IT, do you?!

[Yupster]

110. Sounds like I'm in China during the Cultural Revolution

very timely as I'm trying to decide whether to go to China or not this summer. The choice is Beijing or Jasper Park in Canada.

[DemonFighterLives]

186. Good post

If they stand by their man* and flaunt the stupid bumper sticker, they are looking for confrontation.
My best buddy who is a puke sent me some saying from a bumper sticker and I reversed the whole thing and asked him why he sent it to me.
It had something about tree huggers and the spotted owl tasted like chicken. Oh yeah and being white and religious.

This stupid hatred of Kennedy is not deserved, especially trying to paint GFY cheney as anything but a cold blooded PNAC'er who shot his buddy in the face and tried to cover it up.

[Harper_is_Bush]

196. You're confused

"these people" are Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle, Karl, Rice, Rummy, Swiftboaters, rightwingers.
"these people" are not the grandmothers and grandfathers of America who were fooled by a multi-million dollar advertising campaign backed by an army of psycologists and pollsters into believing that they should vote for Bush.

Pretending that you're "at war" with everyone who voted for Bush is a foolish notion and a good way to alienate people and push them away from voting Dem after Bushs ineptitude might have been sending them in that direction.

But maybe you can explain...what's to gain by what the OP did? You and a few others here think it was part of a "war", so the implication is this is part of the fight. How so? Is there some idea that this old man would walk away from that tirade believing something that helps you in your "war"?

[jayfish]

206. "fooled by a multi-million dollar advertising campaign...

backed by an army of psycologists and pollsters into believing that they should vote for Bush."

Ummm, the election was in 2004. The Cheney shooting was in February. Fooled?

Jay

[Dorian Gray]

224. Stop it with this "Shipping us away in boxcars" crap.

Our government is corrupt now, and they deserve to be fought tooth and nail.

But, this older man is not Himmler or Hitler. He is just an older man with a bumper sticker. And he was verbally accosted by a younger man yelling obscenities at him.

[callous taoboy]

256. Excellent, Tank! n/t

[Marie26]

272. Well, that's pretty scary.

I was half expecting that to end with "KILL THEM ALL!"

[redqueen]

314. I see your point...

however we must resist being dragged down into the mud.

It's perfectly understandable to lose one's temper once in a while... however if we allow ourselves to start thinking it's a great idea to just jump righ down in the mud, then we have indeed become just like them. Perhaps some really do believe that it's come to that... and if so then so be it, it's a free country.

I can certainly sympathize... I've lived among freepers for most of my life, and I can see that it's damn hard not to start thinking that it's time to "fight fire with fire".

[redqueen]

311. Cursing in the subject line?

It seems you've lost your temper as well as your civility, too.

I find the sentiment of your post compelling, but please recognize that liberals are not perfect, no more than conservatives are.

Now those cheering it on... those are the people I guess you're addressing your post to... so... I agree completely on that point.

[baby_mouse]

325. Is this post intended to be a self-parody? nt

[JVS]

43. Somewhere a bridge-group is meeting and a man is saying...

"You know, some people really have nothing better to do than go around accosting strangers, why just today..."

[redqueen]

315. Or he could be saying...

"Those goddamned godless liberals have no respect!"

Let's not beatify the man, we don't know him.

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. You lost a chance to convert someone who might have listened...

Do you always speak to people you don't know in such a fashion? Fucking this, and fucking that? "You old fuckers"? Wow. I mean, really, WOW. I'm shocked. He'll talk to his family about the confrontation he had with a "young'n" today. And how rude, if not provocative and confrontational that person was. His peeps will pass the story along. And, with each iteration, you'll sound a little meaner, a little more coarse, a little more off balance. Now we've not only lost the vote of an "old fucker", we've lost the votes of his family. Good Going. I hope you're proud of yourself.

For want of a nail... Do you know the cliche?

Furthermore, if he was in his 70's or 80's as you claim, he's SEEN his share of war. He's PARTICIPATED in it.

Lastly... have you seen the movie "Master and Commander"? One scene has a goofball shooting at a bird with a rifle. His sights are concentrated on the bird whose flight is erratic... He's looking down the barrel of a rifle rather than at those around him. And he shoots a member of the ship's crew.

Good Going.

[redqueen]

317. A bit harsh, aren't you?

noahmijo has expressed remorse in subsequent posts and is conflicted about that remorse. I can certainly understand that. He is not perfect, nor are any of us.

If he did participate in war, he should know better than to support unnecessary ones that send mostly disadvantaged youths off to die.

Let's not expect perfection from our fellow liberals, okay? Let's try a little understanding.

I agree that it might have been a missed opportunity, but that's going to happen. Again, none of us are prefect.

[Mr_Spock]

50. I'm losing respect for a lot of elders also

These old bastards feel "safe" with their Shrub/Face Shooter (Bush/Cheney'04) sticker on their cars. I don't give a fuck if it upsets their sensibilities, I flip them the bird just like I flip the bird to anyone who has that sticker on their car. It's my version of thumbs-down - I DO NOT like who you support. I know it's childish, but I can't help it any more - these folks are supporting the mass killing of thousands of people and I consider them to be accomplices to murder. And I could care less how "old" someone is - a supporter of murder is a supporter of murder.

[Yupster]

53. What do you mean they "feel safe"?

having a political bumper sticker on their car.

Surely they ought to feel safe shouldn't they?

They certainly have every right to express their political beliefs even if you don't agree with them don't they?

[Mr_Spock]

59. Being "conservative" is being "quiet", "status quo", "inconsequential"

They feel "safe" because they think that people who are afraid to speak up are not a threat - as in conservative philosophy.

Conservatives are cowards by definition.

You can read more into it if you want, but I meant only as compared to having "leftist" stickers on their car that are considered "radical".

[DesertRat]

113. My parents are both 75

and they DETEST Bush!! They say that all of their friends do too. And they live in a red state.

[Yupster]

116. So do my parents

but my inlaws love him.

They're all in their 80's and they all deserve to go to the grocery store without being cursed out by some jerk walking by.

It's the same for all four of them regardless of which political side they are on.

[Mr_Spock]

119. Ahhhh.

Now the argument is fully flushed out.

My mom & dad are 70's too, but they know when and when not to challenge people's sensibilities.

Plus, my parents can give and take with the best of them if need be...

[Yupster]

131. Good for your parents

I hope they live a long and fruitful rest of their lives.

Unfortunately my parents are much more frail and are in exceptionally poor health.

My father is diabetic and pretty much completely blind. He's also lost so much weight he's down to about 120 pounds.

My mother is having memory problems and had a compound fracture of her leg two years ago which has not healed decently.

Seeing them walk arm in arm after 60 + years of marriage is touching, but also pretty heart-breaking.

They have never been overly political, and probably don't have any bumper stickers on their car right now, ut if they did, I'd encourage them to post whatever they want to post and keep voting and expressing their view until they are too tired to.

Just picturing some sick fucker coming up to them in a grocery parking lot and yelling at them and cursing at them makes me really angry. It would scare them to death. My mother (who is at this point overly emotional) would sit in the street and start crying, and my father, who fought at Okinawa, would try to protect her even though he's blind.

And I'm ashamed that there are people here who are actually defending accosting elderly people who were minding their own business going about their daily lives and cursing at them because they don't like their bumper sticker.

Put things in perspective people. A bumper sticker is not important. Cursing out and bullying 80 year olds is important.

[Jazz2006]

158. Agreed. Cursing out and bullying elderly people is repugnant.

Yes, repugnant, with all of the connotations that suggests and deserves.

It's not something that that liberal minded people should be doing at all, let alone bragging about it on a talkboard as though it was something to be proud of.

Sickening, really.

[Mr_Spock]

217. So that person is weak and unable to defend themselves?

Do you know that for certain or are you simply trying to insult someone today to make a point?

I think your prejudices are showing through.

[Jazz2006]

304. I didn't say that.

My post was pretty clear, actually.

I think it's wrong to accost an elderly man and start ranting and swearing at him over a bumper sticker.

No prejudice here. My father, who is almost 74, would probably have punched the OP in the face if he'd attacked him in the manner described.

That doesn't change the fact that I think it's wrong to accost an elderly man and start ranting and swearing at him over a bumper sticker.

[redqueen]

321. There are a lot of prejudices being expressed in this thread.

It's sad, but it seems to have indeed come to this... their hostility and hatred has come full circle.

Are so many of us really so surprised?

Do so many of us really expect nothing but perfection 100% of the time from other liberals?

Rather unfair, if you ask me.

[Mr_Spock]

219. I can sympathize with your situation, but why personalize?

This person seemed pretty healthy to me, why assume all old folks are like your parents? I certainly would not bother to get in the face of people like your parents, but my friend's mother is 77 & plays 2 rounds of golf a day. I can't even do that. Stop being so prejudiced - your bias keeps showing up in your posts and it's unbecoming.

[DemonFighterLives]

187. So do you feel any better

going out of your way to punish Noah.
Christ he did what he did, get over it. The old fart probably was proud that he set off a few lefties.

[redqueen]

322. Oh good point... he wasn't ashamed of setting off lefties...

and it's hard to say there's many more publicly and openly demonized groups than the left right now.

[Mr_Spock]

121. My parents are as liberal as they come

I said "a lot" not all :D

[redqueen]

319. I can understand your frustration.

I hope that soon we'll all have our frustrations eased a bit, when the Democrats take control of Congress.

If that does not happen, I'm afraid this is only the beginning.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

54. Don't make me hit you with my walker

OK, OK, I'm not that old and I don't have a walker.

But, yeah, I know how you felt.

You just should have spit on him.

That's what I do.

I have silver hair.

They think I'm drooling.

[Mr_Spock]

57. lol

I hope you're just joking :rofl:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

58. No

I spit at them. I really do.

If I'm chewing gum, I spit that at their cars so that it sticks.

Don't knock spitting. It's always there when you need it.

[Mr_Spock]

61. lol - I'm kinda mean too and spit on their "W" stickers in parking lots

sometimes, but I don't make a habit of spitting on people :rofl:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

64. Open windows

And I happen to drive an SUV.

Oh, what I can do to the roofs of their cars ..............

Try it. You'll like it.

[Mr_Spock]

68. Oh, dear

I don't think I could get away with that :rofl:

[redqueen]

323. Bless you OLL!

:rofl:

Thanks for the levity, the understanding, and just being you!

:loveya:

:hi:

[poverlay]

60. I think all of you attacking noah should look at the facts. FACT 1:

It was a verbal exchange which was unimpeded by one of the parties' age.

FACT 2:
As long as that old man has a full vote he is no more deserving of respect for what he does with that vote than you or I.

FACT 3:
If someone, regardless of their age, puts a bumpersticker on their car, then they are asking for public debate. That's why we all put bumper stickers on our cars~ Maybe those attacking noahmijo did it because you like the pretty colors.

FACT 4:
My 70 yr old father (and every other elderly person I've EVER known) would wonder at noah wasting his/her time, but would take far greater insult at you implying that he was less able to defend himself, or wasn't responsible for the consequences of his vote, due to age. Then he would probably thrash you verbally and physically a few times just to prove that he still could.

Please stop attacking noah for standing up. We should all be so brave. For all he/she knew that old man was crazy and had a gun. As for the obscenity, I thought it was a thoughtful and judicious use of verbal shock tactics designed to grab and hold attention as well as illustrate the storm brought on by all those who support this regime and their sycophants.

I support you fully noahmijo, and don't let anyone bring you down. We have a war to fight. We can't be bothered with those who would quibble over minor details when lives, present and future, are at risk of death and worse than death...

[Balbus]

67. self-delete

wasn't productive.

[Mr_Spock]

69. We should consider the age of a voter in conversation?

I guess as people get older and more conservative as in baby boomer's we should just lie down and let Fascism take hold because we are afraid to challenge old folks to use their god-damned brains and to not just go along with the bullies?

[Balbus]

71. No, bullying is bullying...

That's all this was. Except the OP was the bully in this situation.

[Mr_Spock]

77. He didn't have a violently ASININE INSULTING bumper sticker on his car

The OP had all the right in the world to criticize someone who would have such a horrible statement on their car.

[Balbus]

85. You don't really believe what you just wrote, do you?

You need help if you do.

[Mr_Spock]

89. What are you having a problem with?

Please keep insulting me without any argument - it's all you're left with apparently.

[Balbus]

91. The argument is apparent - you and the OP get violently enraged

over a piece of paper that costs $1.19 and is on the bumper of a car. And believe me, the insult is not coming from me, the insult is the one you create by the fact that this uncontrolled anger is directed at an elderly gentleman possibly 2 or 3 times your age (or, by the way you're acting, maybe 5 or 6 times your age). Do you realize how this is making you look? Get help, please.

[Mr_Spock]

94. "Nice stickers, you fucking communist."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1097701

Read the above post before you start seeing this issue from your rose colored glasses. It was posted today by a woman who was scared but chose to reply to the person.

I read posts like this all the time here on DU.

I have a link to a blog where RW ass holes were talking about running cars into a ditch and shooting the occupants for a sticker that I had on my car for a while.

"I love my country, but I think we should start seeing other people" the sticker said. Do you think a RWer should want to shoot someone for having this on their car?

Please consider the big picture before you attack this person - this is not an unusual event in this day and age of angry fascist leaning RWers.

[Balbus]

99. So we should be just like that guy, eh?

You go ahead - I choose not to swim in that shit.

[Mr_Spock]

105. Words as a response to offensive RW speak are entirely appropriate

IMHO.

Like I said, don't want to play the game, take your stick (sticker) and go home.

It's so simple. It's a request, not a commandment.

[Balbus]

114. There was no RW speak - it was a freakin' STICKER!!!!

You make it sound like it was a conversation going on - it wasn't. The OP read something and snapped at the old man with violent, reactionary words! If the old man was standing on the hood of his car and yelling out, "Hey, all you young fuckers, I'd rather hunt with Cheney than drive with Kennedy!" to anyone that passed by, then the OP might, almost, be okay with what he said (I still wouldn't have said it to an elderly person). But no, the OP read a $1.19 piece of paper and lost it and snapped at an elderly person who was probably scared shitless and just hoping to get away with his life from this degenerate loony. And, yes, because of the age of who he lost it at, it makes him a degenerate. Put a piece of paper on your car that says "I'd rather drive with Kennedy than hunt with Cheney." There, point made. No reason to call and elderly person an "old fucker" and scaring him back home as you stand beating your out-thrust chest.

[Mr_Spock]

117. Yep, and the sticker contained "words" and the response was "words"

I'm telling you, if you have a sticker on a car with offensive RW speech near me, YOU WILL BE YELLED AT!!


This is politics, not baby talk.

[Balbus]

120. Okay all 70 and older right-wing lurkers, you've been warned.

Mr Spock and Noah(whatever the OP's name is) have you in their sites.

[Mr_Spock]

123. ...and tens of thousands of other people as well.

Bushco has pissed off an awful lot of people. We come here to vent among other things. We all don't have time to "analyze" the people driving the cars with suck-ass stickers.

You can try to bully me with your mean proclamations all you want, it certainly doesn't make you any better a person than I am.

[Yupster]

104. This woman ran into a real jerk

There are a lot of them out there.

I'm glad she didn't get hurt.

So what's your point?

The world doesn't have enough rude jerks so we should become them too?

[Mr_Spock]

107. His sticker was a LOT more offensive than hers.

And the O/P chose to comment on it.

Why would you put such offensive speech on your car IF YOU WEREN'T TRYING TO OFFEND PEOPLE!

[Yupster]

112. Maybe in his rightwing opinion

his sticker wasn't nearly as offensive as a leftwing one.

Or does he have a right to a political opinion?

[Mr_Spock]

115. Nobody's denying his right to free speech!!!!!!!!

Damnit, get over that!!

He simply also has the potential to be taken to task for such a provocative statement, I don't care if he's 8 or 80!!

There's no age limit to RW stupidity!!

[Yupster]

118. You don't think what the OP described was bullying?

It didn't sound like an exchange of views to me. In fact the old guy didn't even make a statement. The OP reads that the old guy didn't say a word. He was just berated by some bullying jerk.

I would guess that the old guy either didn't have his hearing aid turned on or was scared and just wanted to get out of there before the jerk got violent.

[Mr_Spock]

122. I suppose you may be right

...or you may be wrong.

I don't really care - he should find out who put that sticker on the car and have it removed if he doesn't want the possibility that is might offend someone to use mean "words" against them.

[Yupster]

132. You better not express your political views

old man,

or else.

Maybe the OP was successful and intimidated the old man into not expressing his political views anymore. Now that would be something to crow about.

[timtom]

163. I agree with you

Moreover, we should lock up or throw out of malls even MORE liberals who dare to wear any t-shirts that could remotely be construed as unpatriotic!

(Need I put up a sarcasm smiley?)

[redqueen]

324. Good point!

:applause:

[Mr_Spock]

209. You refuse to see the point - you are stuck on personalizing this issue

to your parents. I see your point, but you are not speaking for all people.

I'm sorry that your parents are so frail, but there are plenty of people in their late 70's who can give and take just fine. A mother of a good friend of mine plays up to two rounds of golf on a good day and she's 77. I can't even do that.

Did he say or else or are you exaggerating your point beyond reason to make your point. I say the latter.

[0007]

162. Did you put your "Democratic Underground" sticker on your vehicle?

Because if you did you'd get a ration of shit in Midland.

[redqueen]

326. I admit that I am afraid to.

My car looks bad enough... I don't need vandalism making it worse.

[poverlay]

130. I'm with you, and thanks for posting that, I couldn't find it. It was

driving me nuts trying to find it!

[Yupster]

75. Fascism does seem to fit this situation

as in street thugs bullying old people because they don't agree with their political views.

Sounds kinda Stormtrooperish.

[Mr_Spock]

82. He chose to put a horribly asinine sticker on his car.

Make a statement, get one in return.

We all expect such when we put stickers on our cars.

You did read the earlier post where some guy called a lady a "fucking communist" - it was cowardly of him to pick on her, but she responded in kind even though she was afraid. Get used to it buddy - the Republicans are known as the bullies and we are not going to take their fucking asinine bullshit any more. They have just as much a right to be criticized for their stickers as the next guy - I don't care how old they are - they should think twice before hiding behind their age.

[Yupster]

88. I don't expect to get cursed at

by strangers when I put a bumper ticker on my car. Maybe that's just me.

In fact, I don't curse at anyone, especially anyone I don't even know. Maybe that's just me. Do a lot of people go around cursing out strangers on the street? It's never happened to me.

[Mr_Spock]

93. "Nice stickers, you fucking communist."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1097701

I read posts like this all the time here on DU.

I have a link to a blog where RW ass holes were talking about running cars into a ditch and shooting the occupants for a sticker that I had on my car for a while.

"I love my country, but I think we should start seeing other people" the sticker said. Do you think a RWer should want to shoot someone for having this on their car?

Please consider the big picture before you attack this person - this is not an unusual event in this day and age of angry fascist leaning RWers.

[Yupster]

72. For all we know

the old guy may not have had his hearing aid turned up so he may not even realize that he was being cursed at by a disrespectful jerk.

[poverlay]

81. I applaud the disrespect and take objection to the jerk part. It's not

like noah cursed him out and then ran away. I find the bumpersticker far more "jerky" than someone's strong reaction to it. Or don't you object to the Bush administration's odious and hateful behavior? Maybe you don't think those who vote for and support such death and destruction should be held responsible for their role?

[Yupster]

84. While I disagree with his bumper sticker,

I will fight for his right to display it without being bullied and cursed at by a disrespectful jerk.

[poverlay]

125. At which point was he being bullied and why is he worthy of respect?

Why aren't you cursing a person who voted to bomb and torture innocents?

[Yupster]

133. Yeah there's a grocery store open all night not far from here

Maybe I can still get down there and find some 80 year olds to curse at. I'll ask them who they voted for and if they say Bush, I'll start calling them old fuckers.

What a great idea.

When were they being bullied?

When a vulnerable member of society is approached without their consent and then subjected to yelling and cursing, that is bullying in my book. That could be extremely frightening to them. Who knows what frailties or maladies they have.

Ask an 80 year old man what health problems he has and be prepared to listen for half an hour. Every 80 year old man I know has had at least one by-pass surgery and is worried about his heart at least.

[poverlay]

149. So you're basing your arguments on your own fear? If you want

to go curse out Bush voters of any age, go right ahead. I'm sure they deserve it. I think it's a useless exercise, but that's beside the point.
Just because you are too weak to fight, doesn't exempt you from the consequences when you provoke one. If he is strong enough to advocate the hatred, torture, murder and greed of this administration, he is strong enough to hear the cries of those he has damned.

Your arguments are based on emotion and fear, not fact.

[Yupster]

150. My argument is based on my opinion I guess

My opinion is that you are in the wrong if you start yelling and cursing at people while they are shopping for groceries minding their own business.

I think the wrong is even compounded if the people are vulnerable, as in pregnant, elderly, disabled, etc.

I'm really surprised this is being argued. I didn't think my opinion was all that controversial.

Is it fact or emotion? It's just my opinion.

Others can disagree and say it is correct to curse out elderly strangers in parking lots. To me that's a pretty off-the-wall opinion, but everyone's entitled to their own.

[incapsulated]

151. I think this is the argument

First off, I don't start fights with strangers, if I can help it. I don't go at elders or anyone who may be physically or mentally weakened. I've also been raised to basically allow elders to be jerks and swallow it, to a certain extent. (with plenty of first hand experience from my crazy grandmother)

But. When you say "minding their own business", that isn't really true. When anyone puts a bumpersticker on their car that is intended to provoke, that is hostile by nature, or simply makes a statement about a controversial issue, they are inviting a response and only senility or stupidity is any excuse to be surprised. If I wore a "fuck bush" t-shirt in the mall while I was "minding my own business" I AM making a PUBLIC statement. And the same goes for putting shit on my car. The only reason a person would do it is to broadcast their beliefs to the public, there is no other conceivable purpose. This does not mean that they are open to physical attack, but words will be met with contradicting words, that is the very nature of free speech. Free speech doesn't mean I get to say what I want and you have to shut up and listen.

[Yupster]

152. In my opinion,

a guy picking up his laundry, or shopping for groceries is very much just living his life and minding his own business regardless of what kind of bumper stickers he has.

I do agree with you about not starting fights with strangers. I also agree with you about not going after elders or anyone who might be physically or mentally weakened.

That's why I think the OP is such a jerk.

[incapsulated]

156. Well, if the guy picking up his laundry

Doesn't want to start an fight with people while going about his life, then maybe he shouldn't put shit on his car that will invite an argument.

This is exactly why I don't do it myself. I have no interest in starting a "discussion" over some political issue with any freeper who happens to look at my bumper or is sitting behind me in traffic. Don't start shit if you don't want shit, heh.

Frankly, I see some of this as pure passive aggressive behavior, telling people to fuck off through their bumperstickters, from the safety of the inside of their cars. Then they find themselves outside of it, in a parking lot, confronted by an angry member of the audience, surprise! (I'm not talking here about simply having a Bush or Kerry sticker, but the kind of nasty political commentary that this guy did have.)

This kind of stress, I don't need. Some people want to do it as an act of defiance, that is their right, but I don't seek out confrontation, as I said. Anyway, I get enough on the subway.

[kitkat65]

251. I agree, encapsulated. The old man's sticker was an inflammatory

statement and if a person is going to make such statements in public they need to own up to the reactions they receive from it.

But the whole wonderful thing about this thread and the OP's incident is that we are practicing the most basic of American tenets by 1) having the right to our opinions and, 2) having the right to express those opinions.

The old man had every right to put on that bumper sticker and the OP had every right to call him on it.

The thing I find so distressing about the OP's incident is that it shows how very well our so-called leaders and pundits have divided the citizenry. How possible is it any more to have the left and right come together to find common ground or even civilly debate the issues? By keeping us divided they've pretty much fucked us on the really important issues like keeping jobs here instead of overseas, putting corporate interests over the public's, and destroying our economic stability by maintaining a middle-class majority.

I personally don't give a shit about Cheney shooting a man in the face compared to the fact that we're pushing 3,000 American troops dying in a war resulting from lies. And I don't give a rat's ass about Chappaquidick (sp?) when the current administration is actively participating in systematic torture.

That being said, I don't know if I would have used the F word (which is actually one of my faves, as previous posts will attest to) just because I personally have a thing about respect for elders. That, and it just seems like when you're not among friends and use the F word to make a point, the word shocks too much and nullifies the true content of the message.

[poverlay]

159. I think it's "off the wall" to allow people to support horror without a

murmur. When those "pregnant, elderly, and disabled", "vulnerable" people try to hurt you, I'll defend you and those who lash out on your behalf too. Call me crazy all you like~ I'll be there. Polite or not. Why don't you research how many deaths are caused by supposedly "vulnerable" people? Your assumption is that the elderly etc. are harmless and powerless. It is wrong. To assume so is folly no matter how sweet your grandparent are. My respect for my elders is off the chart. Those elders are worthy of that respect. The guy noah was talking about is not.

By the way, it's not "minding your own business" when you put an advertisement supporting Murder inc. on your car and drive it down a public street. Not minding your own business at all...

As far as controversial goes, well, if you weren't painting every old person as a sweet old innocent~ I'd have no issue. The problem is that you're berating someone who acted on conscience when faced with one who was neither sweet or innocent. In fact I'm sure noah saw that person and their insulated, paranoid beliefs as being the core of the world's problems(and reacted as such), and I can't disagree let alone censure him/her for it.

[PsN2Wind]

76. Verbal exchange implies dialog, that's a two way conversation

The poster accosted someone three or four times his age because he was provoked by a frigging bumper sticker but never said the old man said a word one..
You would have no problem I gather if the positions were reversed and a twenty something accosted your father and cussed him out?
The poster and his supporters are pathetic examples if they get off on the ability to accost the elderly.

[Mr_Spock]

87. Oh, c'mon!

C'mon with this age discrimination.

Bad sticker, get criticism.

Don't want criticism, take sticker off.

Age is not something to hide behind if you are attacking people with violent speech (awful, violent bumper sticker)

[Yupster]

90. So his bumper sticker was "attacking people?"

Which chapter of "1984" are we playacting here?

[Mr_Spock]

97. It was provocative enough to piss at least one person off.

Yes, sometimes I am hesitant to put certain stickers on my car.

I have a link to a blog where RW ass holes were talking about running cars into a ditch and shooting the occupants for a sticker that I had on my car for a while.

"I love my country, but I think we should start seeing other people" the sticker said. Do you think a RWer should want to shoot someone for having this on their car?

I don't put that sticker on my car often - and it's with a magnet. RWers get violently angry and do crazy things that make the OP's words look as passive as they were.

[Yupster]

134. No I don't think a R-winger should want to shoot

anyone for having anything on their car.

That would be even sicker than cursing out old people.

Anyway, I'm sorry you feel intimidated from putting certain viewpoints on your car. I can certainly understand how you would feel intimidated, but can't help feeling it's a real danger for our country when people are intimidated from expressing their views.

If a person did get shot for having a bumper sticker, it sure wouldn't be that person's fault.

No matter how annoying the bumper sticker, it would not justify violence, or bullying, or intimidation.

If I heard about this I wouldn't even want to know what the bumper sticker said. It wouldn't matter. Regardless of the piece of paper and how angry someone got at it, no one has a right to hit you, shoot you, curse you or berate you. I'd say it would be even more loathsome if you were a vulnerable member of society that would fear violence more than the average person.

[rman]

155. Bumper sticker is a public statement

So a public response to it can be expected.

And given the mess we're in there is not much reason to be nice about it.

[PsN2Wind]

98. That first amendment thingy

only counts for those that agree with you evidently.

[Mr_Spock]

102. He used words to argue with words - do you have an issue with that?

...or are you going to keep raising bogus arguments that are irrelevant to the point at hand. Nobody said he couldn't have the sticker, like when I get yelled at for mine, I expect the words of anger, so should he. Case closed, no more argument about first amendment :eyes:

[PsN2Wind]

106. Yeah an issue

Young people bragging about their ability to browbeat some poor old bastard and getting of on how tough they are.
I'm no longer posting to this punk thread.

[Mr_Spock]

109. You've lost the argument, that's why

You can find what he did childish, but we all vent from time to time.

I can sympathize with the O/P, you are just being holier than thou.

I can sympathize with your position, but you browbeating the brow beater is hypocritical IMHO.

[poverlay]

129. No one said he "got off on" anything. Don't make unfounded assumptions or

no one here will take you seriously.

A bumpersticker is "word one". It's an advertisement of how you feel, designed to elicit a reaction. That particular bumpersticker was most clearly "provocative".

As I stated in my previous post~ Age has nothing to do with it. My father would take much offense if I assumed that he wasn't able to hold his own in an argument that he started(bumpersticker). I'm sure my father and I, when I'm 80, would love to be "accosted". You really should look that word up by the way. "You keep on using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means..."

[BooScout]

157. You were wrong....

You came off as a hotheaded jerk. You will never win anyone over to your way of thinking when you act like an asshole. You probably scared the shit out of the poor old guy. Grow the hell up and act like an adult.

[DemonFighterLives]

194. With a sticker like that

The guy is unreachable. He is a proud member of the deluded 23%.

[Harper_is_Bush]

199. "we have a war to fight"...how was this helpful to that?

This wasn't "public debate", first of all....it was an angry and argumentative confrontation.

I'm seeing this theme from some though that this was fighting the good fight....that somehow confronting this old man was part of a "war".
How did this exchange help with that?

That man probably went to his watering hole after and told all his pals how hge was accosted by an angry person from the left over his joke bumpersticker. No doubt they can't believe anyone would be so petty and lacking perspective that they would rant at an 80 year old on the street over a bumper sticker. The stereotype of the "looney left" just got a boost.

[poverlay]

278. So you're afraid of how you're portrayed by a Cheney supporter?

Maybe you should worry more about the "spineless liberal" moniker.
If my elderly father walked down the street with a sign on his jacket saying "I like to kill the innocent.", would he be exempted from public ridicule due to his age? Maybe he needs another sign/sticker stating that he is old and can't handle confrontation?

The point is this:
This is fighting the good fight.
Society defines and teaches itself by expressing approval and disapproval in a myriad of ways. Whether or not you approve or think it's constructive is immaterial. Respect for the elderly is great so long as they're worthy of it. That man is NOT!
If that man wished to avoid argument and confrontation he should simply remove the bumpersticker. Otherwise he, brazenly, opened the door to criticism from those who disagree with him. "Angry and argumentative" is the least of the whirlwind all Bush/Cheney voters have sown. Berating anyone who voted for the horrors currently being perpetrated in our names is the absolute least we should be doing. They should know how terrible we feel, how terrible they should feel, and that we hold them responsible. Of course it won't do a large amount of good, but if it makes them think about it, for even an instant, it's well worth it. Gentle persuasion is often effective, but I myself have come across situations where a more emotional display is necessary. I have seen it's effectiveness-on occassion, and no, I'm not advocating yelling at the sick and elderly as a matter of course. Too many Bush supporters are under the impression that most of the world agrees with them, and that their policies are doing good. As they discover the truth perhaps they will re-examine their beliefs. I did, and I received more effective "angry" confrontations than gentle interventions. Yes, I thought that some of those people who were so upset with me, were nuts, but it still made me THINK. (Something we know most * voters don't do a lot of.) It takes a lot of "pushes" to get someone to change their thinking, and sometimes a good hard shove helps a great deal.

You should be supporting noah instead of attacking him.

[titoresque]

286. I second that!

great post and great points made!

[Freedom_Aflaim]

62. I wonder how many people he will tell

about this "crazy Democrat who accosted me in the parking lot".

Sounds like you made a big impression.


Its possible you may have even encouraged a few people to change their votes, although is suspect it won't be in the direction you would like

gheesh

[redqueen]

329. We all lose our tempers once in a while.

That people need to be reminded of that...

*sigh*

[Balbus]

66. edited: What you did was wrong

and I'll just leave it that...

[alittlelark]

70. I 'Grandfather Clause' those over 80 or so.

I saw my Grandparents lose their minds.... I might too in 20-30 years.

They seemed fine when I was in my young teens - He was Union for 40 or so years, she was a Housewife. He became a paranoid bigot, she was convinced he had a shop with young women in the basement (there was no basement).


Above 80 and minus
a million$$$.........lotsa slack.

[redqueen]

331. Thank you for voicing your opinion without attacking noahmijo.

:hug:

[pansypoo53219]

74. heh, ,my fire-breathing rational democrat beast

came out when talking with my CNN loving great aunt who started on them damned immigrants.
i called bullshit on the whole divide and conquer of the republikkkan ploy. it's a LIE that most don't pay taxes and the pay FICA that they will never see.
BAH! i also have a touch of PMS.

[redqueen]

332. ahahaha... that'll do it!

We all lose our cool once in a while... I have yet to do it with my republican in-laws, but I see that day coming... not proud of it, but I'm human too! And I had to endure their shit-talking about Clinton for too long, and kept cool throughout, so I'm overdue. :P

:hi:

[sonoranleftist]

96. Good for you

Just fuck all those rePUKE dickheads I dont care if their 19 or 90 they all assholes if they have a "R" next to their name.

[redqueen]

333. I feel that way sometimes too...

but I don't think that, not really. They're just people and I think we should try to build bridges of understanding, not burn them.

Sorry... I'm a wannabe Kucitizen. :P

[DesertRat]

111. Disrespect

You had every right to talk to him about the bumper sticker. But I think it was very rude and uncalled for to call him an "old fucker".

[redqueen]

334. Thanks for voicing your opinion without attacking noahmijo. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

124. And they should know better

When you've reached such a ripe old age, you should be getting a few clues about how the world works.

One lesson you should learn is that war is something you engage in ONLY after SERIOUS consideration and ONLY if all other avenues have been exhausted.

By now, it should be obvious to all that have a working brain that Shrubbolini had war first and foremost on his mind.

And anyone who supports that point of view deserves some public shaming.

Good for you.

K&R.

[Yupster]

142. Neither you or I or the OP

know a damned thing about this old guy and his beliefs. All we know is that he was driving in a car with an anti-Kennedy bumper sticker.

You say maybe he should get a few clues, but maybe it's just the opposite. Maybe he knows way more than you do. It is possible you know. There are people in the world who know more than you and I.

Hell, maybe he was Ted Kennedy's Spanish Professor and he's been mad at him ever since he got him expelled from college for cheating. Maybe he just picks up any anti-Ted sticker he finds.

Or maybe he's just a R-wing, nut job with 40 rifles in his bedroom.

The point is none of us have any idea.

And we also don't know if his wife of 50 years just died or if he's just out of the house for the first time after quadruple bypass surgery, or if he was a recent assault victim.

Which is a good reason why you shouldn't start cursing at strangers, especially old ones.

Because you don't know anything.

[Canuckistanian]

148. Considering the current political climate.....

Ok, assuming the older man knew that his bumper sticker was likely to be... umm.. controversial, he should have been prepared for an occasional ear-bending and the likelihood of being called on for such an inflammatory "statement".

People who make such "statements" should either be willing to defend them or face the consequences.

And I care not about about his number of years on this Earth as long as he recognizes that this is a "hot button issue" and that he might get some heat because of it.

If he didn't realize, then I can have some sympathy.

That's all I have to say.

:hi:

[Jazz2006]

153. Well...

we all know what "assuming" gets you.

Sorry, but the OP's attitude and actions were just wrong in the circumstances.

[incapsulated]

126. Can bumperstickers be hate speech?

I think that is the real question, here.

I don't drive a car, but if I did, and put a bumpersticker on it that was intended to piss off republicans, I would expect one would confront me at some point. I wouldn't cry about it if all they did was yell something or use mean words. Obviously, attacking my car or my person is another matter, and that seems to be dragged into this rather unfairly. noah didn't say he smacked the guy upside the head or trashed his car, he just yelled at him.

For all these reasons, I never was a bumpersticker kinda gal, heh.

This old guy had a bumpersticker that essentially said: Fuck you liberals. Not literally, but that was the message to any liberal reading it, and he knew it. Why he would be surprised that someone would confront him about it is either arrogance or senility.

Cheney, his hero, is an old man, too, remember.

That said, I have never been the type to start fights with strangers, especially elders. I would have glared and walked by. Part of it is probably age bias really, to assume someone old is either clueless or weak and unable to deal with someone verbally confronting them, I know there are plenty of "senior" DU'ers who would be offended by that stereotype.

edit for spelling

[bluesbassman]

136. Funny you should bring this up.

Just the other day my 86 year old, depression era surviving, WWII decorated combat veteran, dyed in the wool lifelong Democrat Liberal father was getting out of his worn out '84 Chevy when some rightwing religo-nut got in his face about the "Pro-Choice" bumpersticker he had on his car. This 20 something fundie zealot proceeded to scream obscenities at my dad, and accused him of being a "godless baby killer". Well, I guess dad's blood thinners hadn't kicked in yet, and after being verbally assaulted for about 5 minutes he had a massive stroke and is in the ICU now. You know, I'm really proud of that fundie for speaking his mind, and setting the old man straight.

Of course the proceeding was a parable (all except for the depression era, WWII and Dem/Lib part - my dad is all of those things). You live and act how you want noah, and don't get me wrong, I understand your anger and frustration. But we in the Liberal/Progressive community are not going to convince the moderates and real conservatives that we have a better way with disrespectful actions.

If that man you encountered truly believes the nonsense his bumpersticker displayed, you'll never change his mind. But what about the middle aged woman who isn't sure what to believe right now that was loading her groceries into the car next to that old man's? Do you think you helped her to make up her mind?

It's great to be passionate about what you believe in, and I commend you for that. But you have to stay on target give people a reason to evaluate the vision you have. My hope is that you will, because we need all the help we can get to rebuild what the regressives have destroyed in this country of ours.

[Guaranteed]

179. Good post. nt

[redqueen]

335. Wasn't it?

:loveya:

[rucky]

139. I would've just said, "Man, you ARE old!" n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

141. IMHO, there's nothing gained from berating an elderly man.

[Jazz2006]

146. oops... posted in wrong spot, sorry.

(but I agree with your post)

[redqueen]

336. I don't know that gaining something was the motive here...

I think our noah just lost his temper.

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. Seventy to Eighty year old

you realize that this old geezer most likely SERVED... think about it... yes, he is now supporting a war (and chances are he was scared shirtless on 9\11) but unlike you, he grew up in a country where the draft was en force, in fact, from the age you give... can you say WW II to Korea? I knew you could.

By the way, if you challenged me, I'd be calling the cops and filing charges for verbal assault... geezer, what a way to win friends and make allies NOT.

By the way I have been challenged by Freepers... bout them damn libbies not serving... I have a way to shut them up, and it is a DOD card... but think about it... the man you insulted today might have gone to the field and seen combat.

[treestar]

283. Verbal assault is not a crime. Where do you live?

[Keseys Ghost]

145. I do that kind of regular

I didn't realize it was "a thing".

[Jazz2006]

147. I'm not at all impressed with someone slagging off an elderly man ....

...with such witticisms as "old fucker".

Even worse, in my view, is the fact that you think it's something to be proud of.

It's not.

Sad, sad, sad.

[qanda]

160. Wow! No need to write my post

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Tsiyu]

161. Shame the assholes

Shame them into the ground, shame them back under the rocks.

Age isn't important here. Your vote is. And that fucker voted for murder.



:yourock:

[Mr.Green93]

164. You are an asshole and an embarrassment

to the party. Grow up.

[redqueen]

337. That was totally uncalled for.

Everyone loses their tempers once in a while.

A little understanding... a little solidarity... it's not too much to ask.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

165. That was totally uncalled for.

[Minnesota Libra]

166. I agree with your basic message but you should have found a better........

....:think:way of wording it.:think: Shame on you!!!:spank: Did you bother to inquire as to what war/s he may have fought in?? Of course not!:wtf:

Believe, I loathe :grr:Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice:freak: with everything in me and I'm just as willing as the next person to make neocons/fundies eat their...... but doing so doesn't excuse us from using basic manners/decency.

No doubt if the guy hadn't had any manners he would have easily driven you into the ground verbally.:rofl: As for me, I'm not 70 or 80 something so I still give it as good as I get it.:bounce:

[steve2470]

167. I understand your position. I understand your frustration

However, my father is 88 years old and might (probably not) put a "similarly offensive" sticker for we Democrats on his vehicle. If I found out you verbally accosted my father (even if I violently disagreed with my father)in a parking lot, I'd want to come looking for you.

Hate to say this, but you just cost "our side" a few supporters. Learn a lesson here.

[sendero]

169. Wow..

.... well, we have a perfect example of why "liberals" and "the left" are so marginalized in this country. The right has effectively mobilized a meme machine that actively brainwashes millions of people a day, and if you speak out, you are the bad guy.

The OP should not have used profanity and certainly should not have used any kind of threatening body language, which I doubt he did. But why is it we're supposed to let these brainwashed Rushbots have the luxury of walking around thinking everyone is as stupid and easily led as they are?

No, by putting an inflammatory sticker on his car this gentleman invited a rebuttal and he got one. If he can't handle it, he should take the sticker off his car.

If I put a "Bush is a punk-ass chump" sticker on my car (I've seen two of them here in Dallas), I would well expect to catch some bullshit. You don't get to say just anything without any repercussion. He had his free speech, and the OP had his.

As far as "winning over" people, get this through your thick-ass heads. The Rushbots are not going to be reasoned with. You would have about as good a chance of changing their mind with anger, because that is all they understand. Anger is why the think the way they do anyway, listening to hate radio 24/7 and having the delusion of thinking that they are thinking. Fuck them. Time for them to get that they are not the only ones who are angry.

[ScreamingMeemie]

175. I'd agree if the man had actually engaged in a conversation...but he did

not. He just "looked" at noah... God I sure hope I am never standing next to noah in a grocery store line and look at him in some way he believes to be threatening. :shrug:

[redqueen]

338. No one's ever lost their temper with you?

Never vented misplaced anger or frustration at you?

It's happened to me more times than I can count... and while it's never fun, I always forgive the person... and understand that they're human too. I've done it myself, and while I'm not proud of it (as obviously noah was not either, considering his later posts...) I don't beat myeslf up over it... I just try to learn from it.

I hope our noah does the same.




Oh and :hi: Mrs Grumpy!

[ScreamingMeemie]

349. Oh sure, definitely. All the time. I bring out the best in people.

:) I completely understand how one could snap...

Where we are in complete agreement is the "not proud of it" part. I usually go on to apologize for my behavior...

I.E...If I had done this I may have gone on to say, "I'm sorry, I just see stickers in praise of this administration and I lose it. Please excuse me..." or maybe not. But I wouldn't have "notched my belt" is all.

Hi redqueen! They were looking for you yesterday. :hug:

[redqueen]

352. Yeah... I didn't get the impression about the notched belt...

but I definitely see that others did get that impression based on their posts of encouragement in that regard.

*sigh*

I hope that wasn't the case! I got the feeling from post 4 that noah was just a tad shy of going there. So I'm (as usual, and possibly foolishly) clinging to the most optimistic scenario. :P

[ScreamingMeemie]

354. I say...Let's keep noah...

;)

[JNelson6563]

170. Nice smack down

Age doesn't exempt a person from being told some ugly truths.

Rock on!

[KansDem]

312. I would memorize this snappy remark for such an occasion

However, I tend to stutter in times of stress and would probably falter in the timing of my delivery, making myself look foolish, so I would have to use something shorter, like "Well, please, do go hunting with the Vice-President! Please, the sooner the better!"

Or I could fall back on an old standard, "F**k you and everybody who looks like you!"

[The Backlash Cometh]

171. You took a risk.

Most old fuckers in this country have seen war. The ones who didn't were given that 4f(?) designation during WWII. It was the next batch, the Vietnam batch, that did some dodging.

[ScreamingMeemie]

173. ...and yet many of the Vietnam batch of the kind I know in my own

particular slice of the class system, did see Vietnam...didn't get so lucky. I wouldn't go after them either, unless they went after me.

[The Backlash Cometh]

176. "Class system" says it all.

Those college deferrments were heavily used.

Though, it's funny how my dad would have encouraged my brother to go if his number was called even though he was easily pegged for college. I remember how they sweated it out when he got his number, and I remember the moment of relief when they felt it might be high enough to avoid the draft and I remember how they sweated it out again until they were sure.

[ScreamingMeemie]

177. My dad still carries his card in his wallet. He was drafted.

He just showed it to me the other day. I never knew he still had it. He lied, but they found out he had kidney issues. He still thinks he could have gone. Three of his best friends went without him, one came back. He still blames himself.

[ScreamingMeemie]

172. If he had provoked you, perhaps I could see it, but basing a tirade

on a simiple "look" (which can be interpretted in so many ways) is a bit absurd. I think you could have saved your ire for the Hummer driving Ass at the next station down.

[Balbus]

211. But 70 year olds don't drive hummers...

It's people that might not actually show restraint when accosted by a degenerate punk.

[redqueen]

340. Degenerate punk?

Why is it so easy to attack another liberal?

noah is not evil... he is human, and lost his temper. That sticker was intended to provoke, and it did.

I'm not saying the guy deserved it, but considering the political climate, and the fact that we apparently have troops on the ground in Iran right now... I can understand that things are most likely going to get worse before they get better... and we need to show a little solidarity and understanding with our fellow liberals.

Please, let's try to stick together. :)

[Balbus]

356. Any person that would bully an elderly person over a sticker

is worse than a degenerate punk - but I chose to be nice with my wording.

[DrDan]

180. 'scuse me

"Nope sorry ZERO that is ZERO respect for any "elder" that supports the death and destruction of babies, children, ANYONE who was robbed of what these aging bastards take for granted."

Does this mean you could have respect for him if he was younger?

You seem to be picking on him because he was a "senior"

Why not pick on the fact that he drove a Buick?

or because of any other identifiable characteristic

This war-mongering is not limited to seniors. Sure there are some. There are also many who are against the war - any war.

Seems to me it is time you learn to not generalize so much.

[Pavulon]

181. Mommie should teach you manners

It is fucking rude to go bothering people with your UNSOLICITED opinion. If someone verbally picks on you, calls you a name, go to town.

Otherwise STFU, no one gives a shit what you think, you are no different than a Jehovah's witness or AMWAY panderer, pushing your opinion on someone in public. Get your own sticker.

Wrong forum, wrong approach, just wrong.


Not meant to be personal but this behavior is terrible, no matter who or what is being pushed.

[IdaBriggs]

182. Good Job! He wanted to share his views with the world --

and you wanted to share yours, too! I suggest ignoring the flamers who think you are "rude" -- some people aren't comfortable with verbal confrontation. You didn't threaten him with violence, even though his political viewpoint is a violent one.

Its pretty funny -- its "free speech" when the Repukes advocate cruelty and violence, but its RUDE when anyone says F*CK Y*U to them!

:shrug:

[TheCowsCameHome]

185. He certainly showed his brain-capacity with that idiot sticker.

I hope he's happy with the fools he's supporting.

[unblock]

188. amazing how they still dwell on something from THIRTY-SEVEN YEARS ago

but of course anything shrub did more than 15 years ago was "just a youthful indiscretion".

[mtnsnake]

190. If that "old fucker" slapped the shit out of you, I would've applauded him

Anyone who picks out a "70 or 80 something year old man" to rant and rave on like that for his bumper sticker is fucking pathetic. For all you know, the old guy might have been given that bumper sticker by his neocon grandson for his 80th birthday. Regardless of why he had it on, though, you were out of line and acted like a punk. There's nothing that bugs me more than people who have no respect for the meek or elderly and who pick them out to vent their frustrations on.

[REP]

192. Next Target: Person In Wheelchair or On Crutches

As I said, takes no balls at all to mouth off like that to someone who's unlikely to to take a swing.

edit: damn sticky X!

[REP]

191. Next Time, Say That To Someone Who Could Take a Swing At You

Shooting your mouth off at old men who pose zero risk of punching your lights out takes no balls at all.

[Harper_is_Bush]

193. You snapped at an old man over a bumper sticker?

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[stepnw1f]

197. Bush is Older Than Me

Oh and people are dying because Bush has this support. Get over it!

[Harper_is_Bush]

200. Don't blame the 80 year old voter in the street.

Blame Bush.

And if you can't help blaming the 80 year old voter who was fooled by a PR machine, then show a little class and don't accost them.

[stepnw1f]

269. Class?

Oh... ok. Tell that to the men and women who are sacrificing for this moron...

Did you vote for Bush? Because you always seem defensive when people rip into bush-lickers. Bug off...

[treestar]

280. So voters have no responsibility to think for themselves?

If he "fell for it" there's probably a reason.

[jayfish]

305. Yeah The Reason Seems To Be That Older Folks...

(from some of the responses I'm reading)are frail and mentally incompetent. Oh, and they are the biggest voting block in the country and control all of the money.

http://www.aarp.org/research/assistance/incomedist/aresearch-import-322-DD44.html

Increase in Wealth by Age

Without exception, mean net worth increased substantially among every age group between 1995 and 1998, ranging from just over 4 percent per year in real terms for the oldest age group to nearly 12 percent per year in real dollars for the youngest age group. (See Table 2) How-ever, median wealth increased only modestly for most age groups with the exception of the oldest families (over age 65). Families headed by a person aged 65 to 74 saw increases in median net worth of nearly 8 percent per year, and those headed by a person over age 75 saw median wealth grow by over 8 percent; however, over the same period, those between 45 and 64 years of age realized little growth. Only those aged 35 to 44, whose median net worth grew 4.9 percent per year, realized increases anywhere close to those enjoyed by retirees.

Since 1989, the differences by age are, if anything, even more striking. While mean net worth increased over the nine-year period for all age groups, the changes in median net worth were negative for all age groups under 55 and positive for all those above 55. Moreover, the annual average increases in median net worth were substantial only for families headed by a person over age 65-4.7 percent for those aged 65 to 74, and 3.5 percent for those aged 75 and older.

How old is Lee Raymond, I wonder.

Jay

[redqueen]

320. It's a stereotype. Not all elderly people are easily fooled/delicate. n/t

[stepnw1f]

195. Good for You

It's time people share exchanges, whether they get heated verbally or not. As long as there is no violence. For those who feel this may have resulted in something more, I say: "It was just a response to a fucking sticker!"

[mtnsnake]

204. Not good. He called the elderly man an "old fucker". The only one who

showed any class in this instance was the old man who had the brains to show restraint and only returned the gesture by giving the OPer a "look".

You wanna get on someone's case for their bumper sticker, do just that, but don't do it by cursing, calling an elderly man "you old fucker", and by acting like a raging neocon asshole. How un-Democrat-like.

[IHTFP]

212. You're right;

a rude, unecessary, childish response to a simple sticker.

Civility where have you gone?

[stepnw1f]

264. "Civility" went to Iraq and Died for Lies

so now Chickenhawk retards can feel patriotic without lifting their fat greedy selfish fingers. Any challenge to their self righteous "jingoism" is a threat to that illusion. I say... too fucking bad!

[M155Y_A1CH]

207. OMG, I hope it was his car

If not, you just gave proof to the "angry liberal" accusation.
They say that's why we can't be reasoned with.

[Puglover]

208. How bout just saying something like....

I find your bumper sticker really REALLY offensive. Rather than instantly scaring the old ass to death.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie26]

229. Which one?

The old man w/a bumper sticker, or the young man yelling & cussing at an elderly man because he doesn't like the man's opinion?

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie26]

238. Thanks

And I'd agree.

[Mr_Spock]

230. Welcome to DU!

Yeah, that old guy thinks he can just stick a sticker on his car that pokes a stick into the eye of his intended audience (the whole rest of the world) and then he would not even defend his provocative sticker when he was taken to task for his hatespeak. The older man surely is a huge coward. ;)

[IHTFP]

233. Hatespeak?

Right out of 1984 I see.

[Mr_Spock]

236. HAHA!! Nice rhetorical bullshit!!

You can't see that angry speech confronted with angry speech is ever man's DUTY in this country?

1984? So one person can be a violent bigot in speech, but you are not permitted to talk back to that?

Who's promoting 1984?? Huh? Who's trying to stifle the mans right to free speech?

C'mon, tell me who's the coward?

[Name removed]

241. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

246. I would not have done similar in that situation but,

I do agree with a mans right to speak to hateful awful bumper stickers.

Since I can call so many Republicans who do much worse cowards, I feel that this person venting can be allowed for - even if it is beyond my comfort zone.

[IHTFP]

247. I don't see the bumper sticker

as "hateful." Stupid, yes. This was not venting IMHO; it was a cowardly verbal attack on a man he knows NOTHING about. Yes, he has a right to do so, but it was immature and wrong.

[Mr_Spock]

255. I would rather see more people confront the fascist thugs

and occasionally upset a person who did not have a hateful intent than just sit back and not respond to their awful spewings in word and bumper stickers.

Look where a lack of balls has gotten the Dems!!!!!

I'm NOT going to take their crap any more - I hope I can be careful enough to only confront the worst of them, but I may go overboard once in a while, though I would not brag about it like the OP if I did though - I'll give you that.

[IHTFP]

260. Just what we need, more venom

Go for it...

[Mr_Spock]

265. I certainly will.

I am so tired of the right-wing trying to intimidate us by calling us "weak" and other more vitriolic assassinations of our character. All of this patriotic crap all over their cars - and as if they all were in the Marines - my fucking ass. They are little fucking weasels hiding behind the men & woman who are serving us loyally - and I'm downright sick of it. They want to call me a "liberal pussy", hey - fine with me.

Don't be surprised when I challenge your whining RW pansy ass. I hope you're ready.

[IHTFP]

267. My "RWPA"?

I hope you are not speaking to me?

I'm sorry the rhetoric has to be so heated. Personally, I think it's the wrong way to go, but you do what you feel you must.

Good day.

[Mr_Spock]

268. I speak in "you" plural a lot - I guess it's a bad habit

because people think I'm speaking to them - was not meaning you!

I am going to be dilligent and make sure the liberal position is not misrepresented by the angry fake patriots as much as I can without getting into fist fights or road rage. :D

[Sammy Pepys]

216. I sure hope no one else was around to witness that...

...because you probably looked like an ass.

[Marie26]

223. Jeez.

So I suppose some right-winger has the right to come up & start yelling at you because of your anti-Bush stickers?

[Mr_Spock]

239. Happens all the time - "Nice stickers, you fucking communist."

Get used to the fascist police.

The RWers do it all the time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Marie26]

243. Well, great then

We can be just like them.

[IHTFP]

244. Well said!

[Mr_Spock]

249. Making "just like them" remarks does not help or

speak to the issue of the emotional response we have building inside us to the onslaught of fascism by the right wing. The real point is that there are potential consequences to their continued barrage on our freedom of speech as liberals, and some people who do not deserve the flack will get it because of the fascist Republican leadership. I can allow for this sort of outburst happening since we are being attacked at all turns by the "majority" party and are sick of it.

Do you think I should be shot for having "I love my country, but I think we should start seeing other people" on my car?

Right-wingers do - should we just file into their houses and let them shoot us?

[IHTFP]

250. So your answer

is to attack someone else for exercising his "freedom of speech?"

[Mr_Spock]

257. OK, you are going to keep using the word "attack" to describe a speech

confrontation - which is freedom of speech in BOTH DIRECTIONS!!

You do consider a bumper sticker "free speech", but we are not permitted to respond using our free speech??????????

You will not play fair so it is pointless to argue with you.

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

262. Well, you can disagree with his overreaction, but "COWARD"

is as inflammatory as what he did IMHO.

First we are criticized for being "just like them", then we are attacked using tactics that are "just like them".

Do you see how this argument has no logical conclusion? It is self perpetuating!

[Name removed]

263. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

266. I've already accounted for your disagreement so I guess we agree

to disagree to some extent.

I support his desire to confront these fake patriots and their jack-ass bumper stickers.

I would feel bad if I attacked someone who did not "respond" to my first comment and would not brag about losing my cool at that point - we agree there.

[IHTFP]

270. We agree more than we disagree

Peace

[Mr_Spock]

271. Yes, I think so.

It is a good argument to have as I think we always need to "gauge" ourselves in this time of political conflict.

:patriot:

[ohiosmith]

232. You are one seriously radical motherfucker. How many times have

you tried that shit with someone that you knew would rip you a new asshole if you got in their face?

[Crankie Avalon]

237. And to top it all off, you post your story here and expect validation...

...we are all human so we all occasionally act like assholes, but once the heat of the moment was over you should have felt ashamed of yourself and certainly not come here repeating the story.

I think you've embarrassed the DU a little by posting this. If I were a lurker not all that familiar with the larger community here I would wonder about whether this was representative and, if so, about how badly it reflects on the site.

[redqueen]

346. I'm not embarassed... I didn't think he ws bragging.

In fact in post 4, he clearly shows at least a glimmer of remorse, albeit conflicted.

I can sympathize... with all the rumors of war in Iran... and with the future those people are condeming younger generations to... I don't condone it but I can certainly understand it.

[Gormy Cuss]

242. The next time you want to blow a gasket on this topic,

might I suggest that you go to McCain's or Kyl's office and let them hear it.

[bullwinkle428]

245. Questioning him on the sticker and telling him how you feel is

totally within your rights, but yelling and using obscenities was crossing the line. I don't like to see our side descend into freeperesque-type tactics.

[npincus]

252. not nice

Whether or not we all like it, the old man is entitled to his opinion (something about First Amendment Rights). We can't smackdown every person who silently expresses politics we don't like. We haven't become a fascist state-- yet.

Being rude may have made you feel better, but he's got a right to express his views. Unless he attacked you first, I wouldn't have provoked him.

[nini]

254. If a repuke ever spoke to my mom like that I'd kick their ass

Not agreeing with their politics hardly justifies bullying tactics. Using your rationale some young repuke should get in my 81 year old mom's face because she's a life long Democrat - uh hell no.

Sorry, but that was over the top on your part. First of all the guy probably fought in WWII or Korea - attacking him on the service thing when you have no idea if he ever served is stupid.

The fact you find some kind of satisfaction in cussing out an old man shows some level of your lack of control and maturity. Take on the young fuckers spouting the support our troops crap while driving their big monster trucks and not serving.

Going at an elderly guy in a bullying manner shouldn't be something to boast about. IF he came at you first then fine, but all that over a bumper sticker? :eyes:

[closeupready]

258. Absolutely! Good for you!

I applaud you. :hi:

On edit, after looking at some of the other responses, yes, I can see it both ways, but we only have your story to go by, and on the basis of that, you probably were correct.

[callous taoboy]

261. He had it coming. It was a bullshit sticker, and you called him on it

I would have perhaps just said, "Fuck you and the Dick Cheney you rode in on." I mean I'm tired of this bullshit as well. I wouldn't have questioned his motives. I see "Bush/Cheney '04" I just yawn. This is the reason I don't put snarky stickers on my car, even though I'd like to.

[ourbluenation]

282. Just because someone is old does not make them a weenie...

the old buzzard will be fine - you gave him something to think about...good for you!

[Catherine Vincent]

284. Give the DUer a break!

He said he snapped at the old man. In other words, he would have never done something like that but seeing that asinine bumper sticker, it made him snap. When you put controversial bumper stickers on your cars you shouldn't expect to only receive compliments on it. I had my No W bumper sticker on my car and I was waiting for some republican schmuck to say something to me. Unfortunately, it never happened.

[redqueen]

330. Thank you.

What's become of this place, that we're attacking each other so vehemently over what's essentially a very human failing?

[Fridays Child]

289. OV and the northwest side of town are repuke-infested areas.

I almost never see Dem/Liberal bumperstickers, unless I go down into town. The big exception to that is the parking lot at Trader Joe's. I see good ones over there, all the time.

P.S. Good for you for telling the old fucker off.

[ernstbass]

293. That man doesn't deserve one ounce of respect

Good for you for speaking your mind!!

[deaniac21]

296. Sounds like you are very mature. Would you do the same to

a heavyweight mixed martial arts professional?

[jayfish]

309. That Argument's Getting Lots Of Play.

Unfortunately that's not the situation the OP was in. On top of that, this argument appears to condone the use of physical violence to settle a philosophical dispute.

Jay

[deaniac21]

328. It's just my guess that the OP would be very selective in choosing

the people he would treat this way. In all probability the whole story is made up.

[jayfish]

344. You Could Be Right On Both...

counts. But I'll take the OP's word on it for now.

Jay

[slackmaster]

298. Congratulations on reforcing the man's opinion of Democrats

Nope sorry ZERO that is ZERO respect for any "elder" that supports the death and destruction of babies, children, ANYONE who was robbed of what these aging bastards take for granted.

And ten demerits for hyperbole.

[Tulum_Moon]

301. I hope he removed his sticker!

I would hate to think what you will do to him next time!
If he was as old as you say, I am sure you scared him pretty good.
:sarcasm:

[titoresque]

339. and what opinion is that?

That Democrats are supposed to be nice and quiet?!
I think the bigger insult here in this thread is the people who are
suggesting that elderly people are incapable of verbally defending themselves. The old guy got what he deserved! And Noah made excellent points! The elderly man has had 70 or 80 years to pull his head out of his ass!

My grandfather died last year at the age of 87. He was a tough old Democrat and he had the fire in him till the day he died.

I would not have felt sorry for him one bit if he were verbally challenged by a young repuke. He would have given the little bastard an ear full!

[redqueen]

303. So many seem to expect liberals to be able to rise above...

in each and every situation in which it's necessary.

I find that shocking.

We are all human, just like everybody else. It's only logical that eventually, some of us would start losing our cool.

If you ask me, that time passed long ago.

I think we all deserve a pat on the back for not resorting to fighting fire with fire long ago.

noahmijo, although I don't agree that what you did was necessarily fair or the best thing to do in that circumstance, I can certainly understand and sympathize.

:hug:

[woo me with science]

And you feel the need to share this here, why?

You really, really need kudos for accosting and cussing out a senior citizen?

What a sniveling little coward you are.

[titoresque]

343. yes poor poor

Senior citizen. You're insulting! My mom is a Senior citizen and she still puts the fear of god in me every now and then.

[woo me with science]

345. Yeah, probably she didn't teach you any manners. nt

[titoresque]

353. I'm rubber and you're glue?

c'mon you can do better than that!

The op didn't walk up and call the guy an asshole, and threaten him. He made serious counter points with regards to the bumper sticker.

We'd be in agreement if the op said "...then I bitch slapped the old guy and laughed"

But he didn't, he verbally challenged the mans blatant ignorance. And it's what we ALL should be doing! Regardless of muscle or age. It's our patriotic duty and we need more people like Noah to speak up! We're talking about nuking children on top of all the other atrocities we've commited as Americans........god dammit we're talking about NUKES!
Fuck those bastards! I don't give a flying fuck anymore how nice and white bread you look......if you're publically advocating MORE MURDER than you're fair game for a good VERBAL beating!

[LaPera]

341. Big deal...I do it daily!!!!

[Name removed]

342. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noonwitch]

348. You shouldn't talk to the elderly that way, it's rude and disrespectful

Never use the F word when talking to the elderly-their generation doesn't use that word like those of us under 55 do.

My 92 year old grandfather is a die-hard conservative. He'd be a freeper if he used his computer for anything more than email. I argue politics with him all the time, but always do so respectfully and with a spirit of trying to understand why he is the way he is. He loves to argue with us about issues, and my sister and I can even get him to agree with us about some things, like the importance of education for making a better future, etc.

But he's anti-choice (well, for white people, that is), pro-war and loves O'Reilly. I understand why he thinks abortion is wrong-he and grandma raised two handicapped kids. He considers their lives to have tremendous value, grandma lost a baby to pnemonia and had several miscarriages, and I can see where he's coming from. I don't have to agree with him to love him.

[dysfunctional press]

355. your mother must be SO proud...

and you know for certain that this guy didn't serve in the military during ww2 or korea, just how exactly...?

[Fenris]

357. Locking.

This thread has become unproductive.

Fenris
GD Moderator