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(Ruth Bader) Ginsburg: Congress' Watchdog Plan 'Scary' ('Soviet')

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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 09:30 PM
Original message
(Ruth Bader) Ginsburg: Congress' Watchdog Plan 'Scary' ('Soviet')
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060503/ap_on_go_su_co/ginsburg_congress

WASHINGTON - Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Tuesday that a Republican proposal in Congress to set up a watchdog over the federal courts is a "really scary idea."

Ginsburg told a gathering of the American Bar Association that lawyers should stick up for judges when they are criticized by congressional leaders.

"My sense now is that the judiciary is under assault in a way that I haven't seen before," she said.

As an example, she mentioned proposals by senior Republicans who want an inspector general to police judges' acceptance of free trips or their possible financial interests with groups that could appear before them.

"It sounds to me very much like the Soviet Union was .... That's a really scary idea," said Ginsburg, who was put on the court by President Clinton and is one of its liberal members.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Political comissars watching over the judges
How very Stalinist of the Republican creeps.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Republicans - they're brand of "patriotism" bears very little resemblance
Edited on Wed May-03-06 09:48 PM by BattyDem
to true, American-style patriotism. It's always a Soviet-style, oppressive form of "patriotism" :eyes:

On edit: How can Congress appoint a "watchdog" over the judiciary when they are CO-EQUAL branches of governemnt? That would be a blatant violation of the separation of powers. Oh, silly me ... I forgot that Constitutional law doesn't matter these days. :grr:

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Ginsburg is spouting
one of those unitary theories. In this case, a unitary executive: co-equal, with the powers of the other branches over it (such as oversight, accountability, etc.) being very limited indeed.

That's the argument made against many of the "watchdog" bits of Congress--and which Congress has tried to set up--to monitor the co-equal executive. "Blatant violation of the separation of powers." There's a range of unitary executive theories, and this is the heart of all of them.

Of course, then the wrangling starts as to exactly how separate the powers are, since every branch has some limitation placed on it, Congress the fewest (but Congress is also dealt, in many respects, a weak hand).
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Isn't that the second Soviet reference today?
The other one was about BushCo turning the cameras off in the press room. "Verrrry Soviet"
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. They do have Marcus Wolf
That is, Former East German Secret Police Director Markus Wolf, as a consultant at DHS, at least according to the Idaho Observer.

http://proliberty.com/observer/20050216.htm

Maybe they're taking his advice - not to mention the way they're sucking up to the Chinese... maybe Red isn't so bad after all. Blue is the enemy now.
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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. am i missing something?
"an inspector general to police judges' acceptance of free trips or their possible financial interests with groups that could appear before them."

sounds like a good idea to me. Im sure its just a disguised attempt to bully judges, but the idea of a non-partisan watchdog to prevent conflict of intrest is good.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Do you really think that a senior Republican is wanting to do this....
...to prevent conflict of interest, or is this just another way to intimidate judges that aren't yet drinking from the NeoCon koolaid?
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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. i know i know
its all about intimidating judges, no arguement there. I DO think an oversight committee (retired judges, lawyers, etc - nonpartisan) should be formed to prevent conflict of interest. Justice Scalia anyone...?
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Previous comments and posts
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joldnir Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Repukes twist the Constitution to suit their evil ways....
The repukes will try to use the Constitution to back up their actions.

"The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."

And just who decides what is good behaviour? If it is left to them we are all in trouble.

:scared:
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low_phreaq Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. House Judiciary Committee press release
http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/judgeIGintro42706.pdf (PDF)

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=64750 (text)

WASHINGTON, April 27 /U.S. Newswire/ -- House Judiciary Committee Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. (R-Wis.) and Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), a Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, today introduced legislation establishing an independent Inspector General for the Judicial Branch. Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), Chairman of House Judiciary's Subcommittee on Courts, the Internet, and Intellectual Property is an original co-sponsor of the House legislation, H.R. 5219 "The Judicial Transparency and Ethics Enhancement Act of 2006."
<snip>
Summary of The Judicial Transparency and Ethics Enhancement Act of 2006 Introduced in the House:

-- Establishes the Office of Inspector General for the Judicial Branch, who shall be appointed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

-- The duties of the Inspector General are: (1) to conduct investigations of possible misconduct of judges in the judicial branch (other than the Supreme Court) that may require oversight or other action by Congress; (2) to conduct and supervise audits and investigations; (3) to detect waste, fraud and abuse; and (4) to recommend changes in laws or regulations governing the Judicial Branch.

-- The powers of the Inspector General are: (1) to make investigations and reports; (2) to obtain information or assistance from any Federal, State or local agency, or other entity, or unit thereof, including all information kept in the course of business by the Judicial Conference of the United States, the judicial council of circuits, the administrative office of United States courts, and the United States Sentencing Commission; (3) to require, by subpoena or otherwise, the attendance for the taking of testimony of any witnesses and the production of any documents, which shall be enforceable by civil action; (4) to administer or to take an oath or affirmation from any person; (5) to employ officers and employees; (6) to obtain all necessary services; and (7) to enter into contracts or other arrangements to obtain services as needed.

-- The Inspector General is required: (1) to provide the Chief Justice and Congress with an annual report on the Inspector General's operations; (2) to make prompt reports to the Chief Justice and to Congress on matters which may require further action; and (3) to refer to the Department of Justice any matter that may constitute a criminal violation.

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low_phreaq Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-03-06 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. WTF, Framers entrusted Congress with oversight of the Judiciary???
Whoa! I missed this on the first read, but now I see:
"Two years ago, I expressed my concerns before the U.S. Judicial Conference regarding the Judicial Branch's lack of effort in recent years to police its Members' behavior. As I explained then, Congress provided much deference to the Judicial Branch in 1980 by essentially allowing it to self-police the conduct of its members with little input from Congress, who the Framers entrusted with oversight of the Judiciary.

I just took a look at the Constitution, and the closest things I found in Article III are:
Congress may from time to time ordain and establish Courts below the Supreme Court,
Congress may make regulations regarding the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, and
Congress may make laws directing the location of trials for crimes not committed in any state.
(These are all my paraphrasing)

Any Constitutional scholars out there, am I missing something, or is Sensenbrenner just twisting the Constitution as posts #2 and #8 say? Does he mean something else besides the Constitution when he says "Framers?"
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low_phreaq Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Found a great resource on Judicial Independence
In trying to figure this all out, I came across this from the American Bar Association:

"An Independent Judiciary" - Report on the Commission on Separation of Powers and Judicial Independence
http://www.abanet.org/govaffairs/judiciary/home.html

One of the sections is 'The History and Evolution of Judicial Independence'
http://www.abanet.org/govaffairs/judiciary/rhistory.html

Here is their analysis of what the Framers intended:
B. THE ORIGINAL UNDERSTANDING OF JUDICIAL INDEPENDENCE

The provisions for judicial tenure during good behavior and a compensation that could not be diminished were a part of the proposed Constitution from the very beginning and do not appear to have been seriously threatened during either the convention or ratification debates. The founders thus remained steadfast in their support for judicial independence and assumed that life tenure and irreducible salary were the necessary and sufficient means to preserve the independence of the judiciary as an institution, as well as the decisional independence of individual judges. At the same time, they did not appear to consider the extent to which judicial independence might be undercut in other ways, such as through political branch manipulation of the judiciary's nonremunerative resources.

The precise language of the judicial power clause was added midway through the convention by the Committee on Detail, although from the outset the delegates supported the establishment of a third judicial branch with exclusive authority over the judicial function. While this clause obviously contributed to the judiciary's independence as a distinct department of government with powers that no other department could exercise, the framers characterized the clause more in terms of its contribution to separation of powers than independence per se, for which reasons it was not discussed alongside the good behavior and compensation clauses in the convention and ratification debates over judicial independence.

Far more volatile than the good behavior, compensation, or judicial power clauses were provisions enabling the political branches to hold the judiciary accountable for its conduct - particularly those governing impeachment, and those empowering Congress to establish the lower federal courts.

With respect to the scope of impeachable conduct, there appears to have been general agreement in the convention and ratification debates that impeachment ought to reach "political" offenses not recognized as conventional crimes at common law. In the Federalist Papers, for example, Hamilton argued that judicial overreaching was not a problem to be feared, because the judges would be unwilling to alienate Congress and risk impeachment:

"There never can be danger that the judges, by a series of deliberate usurpations on the authority of the legislature, would hazard the united resentment of the body entrusted with it, while this body as possessed of the means of punishing their presumption by degrading them from their stations."

As to Congress' power to constitute the lower federal courts, it needs to be emphasized that the Constitution does not establish the lower federal courts but merely authorizes Congress to establish them. Congressional authority to regulate the lower federal courts' practice, procedure, and administration, derives from its power to constitute (or not to constitute) the federal courts, which, when taken in combination with the "necessary and proper" clause, is thought to include the power to regulate the operations of whatever lower courts Congress sees fit to create.

The framers' decision to authorize Congress to establish the lower federal courts, rather than to have the Constitution establish them directly, has thus proved critical to the contemporary balance of power between the first and third branches. Even so, this appears not to have been an intended consequence, so much as a side-effect of a decision having more to do with reducing tension in the relationship between state and federal power. As originally proposed, the Constitution would have established the lower federal courts outright. Many delegates were concerned, however, that federal trial courts would ride roughshod over their state counterparts. As a compromise, the proposed Constitution was amended to empower Congress to establish lower federal courts, with no explicit requirement that it do so. The implications of that compromise for Congress' regulatory authority over the courts were unexplored at the convention, were under-explored in the ratification debates, and were thus left to be pursued by a later generation.


So the way I read this analysis, the intent of the Framers was judicial independence and separation of powers between Congress and the courts. They left it to future generations to figure out how their decision to allow Congress to establish the lower federal courts would translate into any Congressional regulatory authority over the lower courts. So for Sensenbrenner to speak for the Framers this way is misleading.

Even more clearly, the Framers definitely did not intend Congress to have regulatory authority over the Supreme Court, as Grassley is trying to bring about.
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low_phreaq Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. links to legislation
The Senate bill applies to the Supreme Court as well as to the lower federal courts:
S.2678
Title: A bill to amend title 28, United States Code, to provide for the detection and prevention of inappropriate conduct in the Federal judiciary.
Sponsor: Sen Grassley, Chuck (introduced 4/27/2006)

The House version applies to the lower federal courts only and not to the Supreme Court:
H.R.5219
Title: To amend title 28, United States Code, to provide for the detection and prevention of inappropriate conduct in the Federal judiciary.
Sponsor: Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. (introduced 4/27/2006)
(Note: as of this posting, the text of H.R.5219 has not yet been received from GPO.)
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. Ironic and yet not surprising
that the republican congress wants to "WATCH" out for judicial misconduct regarding "free trips or their possible financial interests with groups that could appear before the courts" and all the while refusing to even consider an ethics panel for themselves...


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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-04-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. I think it's a bad idea.
But it's not soviet. It's not the judicial ruling that's the problem, it's the ethical malfeasance, and those are different things. This maintains the separation between the two, something the USSR failed at.

The oversight committee might make that error, but we have lots of other kinds of oversight committees for other branches of government, and the policies/implementation of policies and the Congress's politics get merged. Oversight over the NSA--it's nearly impossible to separate out Congress' criticising and trying to control how the NSA implements the laws for legal reasons and what Congress does/says in response to the political pressures that come from maintaining a proper public persona and getting past the next election. This, however, is also very much non-Soviet, where the voters counted for squat.

But judges do do unethical things, and sometimes they don't but are said to have done unethical things. Remember the Scalia flap, where he went and spent hours participating--as in lecturing--in a bar-association approved workshop/seminar in Colorado? Even had cobbled-together set of readings. But over the course of a few days he spent a few hours on the links. Immediate scandal, he was paid for a junket to play golf. Partial reporting led to the truthy result; what he did was little different from what Ginsburg herself does and O'Connor did.
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