* and the Serial Killer Personality

[Geoff R. Casavant]

I have read some books by John Douglas, who led the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit for many years -- one of the FBI agents in "Silence of the Lambs" was based on him. Anyway, in his books he dicusses the "triangle" of personality traits that occur with striking consistency in serial killers. The triangle consists of three behaviors that occur in late childhood and adolescence -- bedwetting, fascination with fire, and torturing animals. Every time a serial killer is caught and interviewed, invariably at least two of the three traits are found in his background.

In the past week, I have seen fresh (though in some cases unconfirmed) references that * possessed all three. Bedwetting at 11, setting fires at 14, and blowing up frogs.

Thoughts?

[warrens]

1. Do a google image search for Ted Bundy

The resemblance to Bush in his 20s and 30s is astounding. Similar personalities, too. Glad-handing Republicans with real dark sides. Ted at least did his killing personally; Georgie has his lackeys do it for him.

[Justsayin]

5. I have done that a few times

it is an amazing resemblance. I especially like the courtroom shot when Bundy goes off.

[Kansas Wyatt]

6. Well now it could be argued that

If Ted Bundy had the resources of the BFEE (Elitist wealth & destructive parasitic connections to the Federal Government), like Georgie, Ted may have directed his criminal activity and killing towards millions in society and the world itself, rather than limiting himself to killing personally.

[reichstag911]

7. Right...

..."kill one person and you're a murderer, kill a million and you're a statesman." :nuke:

[linazelle]

27. They actually resemble one another. n/t

[Generic Other]

40. Ted Bundy's father has never been identified

His mother got pregnant while living on the East Coast. Supposedly an Ivy Leaguer. Poppy?

[hippiechick]

2. There's no doubt ...

... all one has to do is look at his footage prior to Carla Faye Tucker's execution to see how the thought of having someone killed gives him a hard-on ...

[Random_Australian]

32. I'd argue that excitement builds as part of the ritual.

I wonder.... but you don't need mental illness to be a complete bastard.

If that reaction were more widespread, to unlike situations, I will recant.

[dchill]

3. You really don't need...

more confirmation of "Serial Killer Personality" than this - 2400+ dead in Iraq for a lie.

[arikara]

12. Don't forget.... as many as 250,000 dead Iraqi

men, women and children. Add the ongoing devastation caused by the spreading around of depleted uranium which will cause untold suffering to the future generations for both the Iraqi people and the American soldiers over there. And how many Afghani people have been slaughtered? They are never mentioned anymore either.

I read something years ago about the serial killer personality that said how politicians often had the same sociopathic traits as serial killers. That being in the political position of power to fight wars and otherwise cause suffering channeled their killing urges. It really made a lot of sense. I wish I could remember who wrote it or even where I read it.

[Marnieworld]

14. don't forget 9/11 and Katrina

Both had major warnings presented to him but he was too indifferent to act on them. Before during and after these events he has no feelings just impressions of what he thinks a real human being would act like.

I truly believe he is a clinical sociopath.

[arikara]

17. Another reason to lean towards

the belief that they MIHOP.

[Marnieworld]

19. either way it's negligent homicide IMHO

A real leader would have immobilzed the country in the days that Katrina was approaching NOLA. All appointments cancelled. Statement from White House in prime time. All hands on deck throughout the region. Water, food, meds ready and standing by out of the path but close to it so to give immediate relief. Massive evacuations. Plans for the animals. The whole country should have stopped and held their breath as it happened and sprung into action afterwards. That's what I would have done. Yet, instead photo ops go on as scheduled. People climbed to their rooftops to escape the rising waters as the president strummed along and stayed in a luxury resort. He should have been in the situation room not at a fundraiser. All of this indifference, this complete lack of awareness of American suffering, is the sign of his sociopathic tendencies. Terrorists certainly wouldn't give days notice and would cause less damage ( I will always believe the death toll exceeded the official #, probably exceeded 9/11) but we are supposed to feel safe because he's the guy in charge? We lost a city, seniors died in the streets and stayed there for days, we are still finding bodies of people so disregarded it is so sick. And yet, not a mention of this event in the SOTU afterwards. A disaster without comparison in our lifetimes but if they can't exploit it for their benefit then it's like it didn't even happen. I still want to scream when I think of it. :grr:

edited for typos

[B3Nut]

41. * NEVER MENTIONED Katrina in the SOTU?????

I missed the SOTU, so I am unaware of its content (not that there could possibly have been anything of value or substance to it). If he didn't even give one of the worst natural disasters to hit our nation a mention in the SOTU, then he is utterly and completely void of humanity. This is beyond sad and pathetic, and it infuriates me to no end to contemplate the fact that persons of this wretched caliber have authority over our lives!

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Marnieworld]

42. I'm pretty sure he didn't

I think I missed it this year but I remember reading afterwards that he didn't even mention it. For the reasons you mentioned that stayed with me. Like I said if they can't capitalize on something and use it as an excuse to rob the treasury or invade a country it's like it didn't even happen. Why mention something that makes him look bad right? :sarcasm:

on edit:
The liberal media made me think he didn't but he sort of did after all:
“A hopeful society comes to the aid of fellow citizens in times of suffering and emergency -- and stays at it until they're back on their feet. So far the federal government has committed $85 billion to the people of the Gulf Coast and New Orleans. We're removing debris and repairing highways and rebuilding stronger levees. We're providing business loans and housing assistance. Yet as we meet these immediate needs, we must also address deeper challenges that existed before the storm arrived. In New Orleans and in other places, many of our fellow citizens have felt excluded from the promise of our country.”

He just didn't say it by name. Of course what he did say was complete bullshit and spun to make them look good. It's too bad they didn't feel it was necessary to fix the levees before Katrina despite all of the warnings and research done about it. It would have cost much less than $85 billion. I hate feeling that I could do a better job than this guy. I never felt that way when Clinton was in office. I felt safe and secure that not only was he doing a good job, he actually liked the job and was a workaholic. FEMA was fine under him and it's too bad that Katrina didn't happen during his time.

It's almost officially hurricane season. I'm sure that nothing has changed at all. It's as if Al Queda decided to have periodic attacks for 6 months every year. Would we be any safer?

Ranting mood this morning. :grr:

[stepnw1f]

48. Nope...

In fact, shows on AAR pointed it out.

[dchill]

26. Me too.

Me three?

[rman]

4. Also they are good a hiding their true nature, pretending to be normal

by copying socially acceptable behavior.

The better they are at that, the more chance they have of ending up in a position of power.
It's one of the main traits that make a psychopath a sociopath.

[ThomWV]

8. You Talking About Bush or Frist? nt

[CoffeeCat]

9. Most serial killers/psychopaths are like this...

...due to severe childhood trauma.

For me, it's a given that * (at the very least) has a personality disorder. At worst--as you describe--he's got a psychopath with the same personality abnormalities as a serial killer or serial pedophile.

I'm wondering what is up with the family--Bush Sr and his wife--as well as the grandparents. Was their abuse in this family? We hear stories, particularly the one reported in the Washington Times, about Bush Sr moving boys in and out of the White House in the middle of the night. Is there a long line of sexual abuse and trauma in this family?

If so, America needs that truth.

When a bunch of unhealed, conscious-lacking sociopaths takes control of our nation--the public is best served by being aware of the reality--instead of being in denial about it.

[Lochloosa]

11. You are forgetting about Robin.

His sister that died of leukemia when the shrub was six. The story floating around is that she left the house one day and never returned nor was she ever talked about again. Now that would be "childhood trama"

[Marnieworld]

15. I was going to post this as well

I remember hearing/reading that the day after she died the parents played golf as if nothing happened. I can imagine how that would harm a 6 year old if I didn't hate him so much I'd feel sorry for that lost little boy that we have to live with as a madman now.

[marions ghost]

35. yes

the family refused to grieve. They just "moved on" immediately. Young George (who had not even been told his sister was so sick) became his mother's support system. She was devastated and without enough adult support apparently. When his sister was talked about, it was as though she had never left (weird to kids--they don't get that). It's in Kitty Kelley's "The Family." This single trauma could have done it. Shrub was taught to erase anything disturbing, to simply disassociate, to make light of the most traumatic events. No wonder he drank. Growing up in that family I can see how you would.

[Mnemosyne]

34. "Is there a long line of sexual abuse and trauma in this family?"

Your guess is as good as mine, but there is evidence that Poppy is a pedophile.

Conspiracy of Silence video, Child sex ring that reached Bush Sr's Whitehouse.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/03/1579613.php

And this:

*41 and Babs had a nice children's choir from this bunch to sing for them at the white House.

I hung out with two guys from the "children of god" for a couple of weeks back in 1974 in my small town. They shoplifted constantly, tried to have sex with every young girl in town and managed to convince one naive girl from our town to leave with them. I don't know what happened to her after that. She was 14.

I received "Mo" letters from one of them "Noah" for a few years after they left. I wonder if it's the Noah in the book?

Life in The Family: An Oral History of The Children of God
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/pages/show_page.asp?641

[leftofthedial]

10. he is a sociopath

[Random_Australian]

33. Many people do not care for those they do not regard as human.

No empathy.

Also, the immediacy is not apparent when he causes death, so you could argue that he does not have to overcome such a strong natural aversion as the serial killers do.

[populistdriven]

13. All serial killers combined have killed less than *Bush*

Serial killers have less self control and kill compulsively, * Bush * does it for Power and Profit.

[Marnieworld]

16. I heard about the frogs but where did you hear about ...

the bedwetting and fires?

[Geoff R. Casavant]

21. Here's the article I saw it in.

As I said, unconfirmed, and the first place I can recall having seen these mentioned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-frank/what-to-do-with-an-unreac_b_20003.html

[EstimatedProphet]

18. False conclusion

Serial killers may share those traits, but that doesn't mean that those who share those traits are serial killers.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

20. Oh, I agree.

In logic terms, "If p then q" does not imply "if q then p."

Of course, I never said it did. Just throwing that particular matzo ball out there to see what folks had to say.

[EstimatedProphet]

24. OK

I wasn't sure if you meant that those things indicated he is a serial killer.

I agree with you too-it does look quite suspicious.

[cassiepriam]

23. But he has much more than the triad.

He has an extensive history of drug and alcoholic abuse, law violations, disregard for the rights of others, frequent lying, cheating, etc etc.

You might want to look up socipathic personality disorder in the DSM.

[EstimatedProphet]

25. I know about sociopathic disorder

I was trying to make a valid logic point. You can't say that because he has factors in common with a serial killer that makes him a serial killer.

His behavior as a person is not what I was talking about. You might want to look up how to make an appropriate post.

[cassiepriam]

29. I understood your point, I was making another one.

I will look up how to make an appropriate post my friend, if you promise to look up how to have some manners!

[EstimatedProphet]

47. Well, if I took your post in a way that was different than intended

I am sorry. However, the comment about how I might want to look up sociopathic disorder in the DSM seemed pretty snarky in it's own right.

[TheProphetess]

50. As a psychologist (an experimental, not clinical one, mind you)

My understanding is that there is no disorder referred to as "sociopathic personality disorder" in the DSM-IV-R. Perhaps you meant "antisocial personality disorder," instead. I can double-check at work next week, if you're interested (unless you do have access to the latest DSM revision and could educate me).

Nonetheless, I believe that EstimatedProphet's point was not about whether or not Bush has a particular personality disorder, but it was about making logical conclusions. For example, just to give another perspective, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder):

"Though Antisocial personality disorder cannot be formally diagnosed before age 18, three warning signs, known as the MacDonald Triad, can be found in some children. These are:

* a longer-than-usual period of bedwetting
* cruelty to animals
* pyromania

Obviously, not all children who exhibit these signs grow up to develop anti-social personality disorder, but these signs are found in significantly higher proportions than in the general population.

A child who shows signs of anti-social personality disorder will be diagnosed as having either conduct disorder or oppositional defiant disorder. Not all of these children will grow up to develop anti-social personality disorder."

[WinkyDink]

49. Maybe so, but Bush HAS KILLED.

[EstimatedProphet]

52. No argument there

[ms liberty]

22. I said something similar on another thread last night...

When he talks about war, death, murder, punishment, or destruction his eyes glitter. I am reminded of the photos and footage of Charles Manson when I see his glittering eyes. It always shows up when he's talking about pain, torture, death, destruction, war, punishment - and it's the only time he actually looks alive and engaged. I first noticed it when he was campaigning prior to the '00 (mis)selection; the first time I saw it I turned to mr. liberty and said "this guy would push the nuclear button and enjoy doing it."
He is a very sick individual. He enjoys having the power to inflict pain and suffering on others, and he enjoys inflicting that pain and suffering. It may be the only thing he really feels. He certainly doesn't have any real compassion or empathy for anyone except himself.
I've read most of John Douglas' books too, and quite a few other books on similar subjects - beginning of course with "Helter Skelter"; and I agree with you. From where I'm sitting, I have very little doubt that he possesses a serial killer type of personality, whether it's psycopathic or sociopathic I couldn't say. I'm not a professional. I do know I wouldn't want to be alone and unarmed with him when he's got that look.

[linazelle]

28. I think I saw that thread and after watching him talk about Massoui today

I really got what you meant. He could hardly keep a straight face talking about Massoui--he was watering at the chops.

[Disturbed]

30. List of Antisocial Personality Disorder Traits

List of Antisocial Personality Disorder Traits

Sense of entitlement; Unremorseful; Apathetic to others; Unconscionable behavior; Blameful of others; Manipulative and conning; Affectively cold; Disparate understanding; Socially irresponsible; Disregardful of obligations; Nonconforming to norms; Irresponsible

whereas the DSM-IV "clinical" features of Antisocial Personality Disorder (with a person having at least three of these characteristics) are:

Clinical Symptoms for an Antisocial Personality Disorder Diagnosis

1. Failure to conform to social norms; 2. Deceitfulness, manipulativeness; 3. Impulsivity, failure to plan ahead; 4. Irritability, aggressiveness; 5. Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; 6. Consistent irresponsibility; 7. Lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person

[OzarkDem]

53. Sounds like your typical corporate executive

Bush and Cheney share the same personality traits as many of their peers in the corporate world.

Corporations are full of these personality types at the top levels of management, where traits of ruthlessness, lack of concern for others, manipulativeness, deceitfulness and aggressiveness are considered desireable.

[warrens]

44. Just ask Tucker Carlson

He interviewed Bush when he was still governor, a couple of nights before Karla Faye Tucker was executed. He asked Bush if he was going to speak to Karla before she died, and said Bush smirked and then lisped, "What's she going to say, pweeze don't kiw me?" Carlson said it was highly disturbing, that Smirk (that's where the nickname comes from) was gloating about it.

Of course, Tucker is such a Repuke tool that he nevertheless voted for the guy.

[Random_Australian]

31. * appears to display normal, if slow, cognition.

You don't need something wrong with your head to be scary or evil or bad.

In fact, struggling against that is something those with mental problems find very difficult.

Here's my two cents: * is not that abnormal. If you or I were raised as he was, we'd probably be ten kinds of asshole too.

[Doctor_J]

37. Bundy was very bright

I think * is more than an asshole though. He's way disturbed. Remember the way in the 03 SOTU he got the little smirk on his face when he said, "Let's put it this way - they won't be causing any trouble any more". The man gets ecstatic over others' suffering and death. That takes more than assholiness.

[marions ghost]

43. abnormal people

on certain scales are loose and doing damage all over the place in America today. But that does not mean Shrub is within the norm, unless we would agree that "the norm" includes the seriously deranged. If so, that's really scary. It's possible that corruption and exploitation is so accepted in this society that significant numbers of regular people do not really see it as deviant. Just bidness y'know. There are probably studies that would verify this trend. If not somebody should do one.

Il Chimperor is more than a mere asshole. To be as ruthless as he is, I think you do need to have something wrong with your head.

We are only just now beginning to realize how sociopathic behaviors can be found in "functional" individuals, eg. those who seize political power to do their dirty work rather than killing by their own hand. You'd think we'd have learned the lesson with Hitler, Stalin and the like, but in this case it's less obvious, since Boosh is supported by a whole raft of like-minded Neocons. He is a product of a totally corrupt business and political climate. But he's still only the front man for a syndicate, akin to the Mafia. And Shrub is obviously not The Boss. He's just the sacrificial toady. When he goes, the cabal will morph and continue their agenda.

[Doctor_J]

36. Death and golf are the only things that excite him

He is a true sociopath, with no conscience at all.

[lonestarnot]

38. and whacking brush...maybe whack'n himself.

[randr]

39. I once wrote an outline for a movie plot

where a family of serial killers plots and gains political office to futher their blood thirst. Modern day vampires.
Not so far fetched.

[marions ghost]

45. not far-fetched at all

could be a very interesting movie...reality shows being all the rage. Do it with a non-thrilling, non-shocking "bidness as usual" approach. just like we are seeing it unfold in "real" life.

[Cyrano]

46. The Karla Faye Tucker incident when Bush was Gov. of Texas is

pretty revealing.

I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychoanalyst, but mocking a woman who had been executed through his own signature, is sick by anyone's standards.

Bush was being interviewed by Tucker Carlson (of all people) who included the incident in the article he was writing. While speaking of Karla Faye Tucker, Gov. Bush mocked her and whined, "Please don't kill me."

Carlson looked shocked by the insensitivity. However, given my lack of credentials mentioned above, I wouldn't call it "insensitivity." I'd call it a total lack of empathy and humanity. Ever since first hearing that story, I've considered George W. Bush to be a monster.

[leftofthedial]

51. I'll bet you king george is still a bedwetter

and he probably still tortures small animals to death whenever he can