Civil Disobedience

[Der Blaue Engel]

I've noticed a number of comments on DU asserting that if something is illegal in this country, then anyone who participates in said illegal activity is a criminal, and deserves whatever punishment they get, as they should have simply followed the law.

Have people forgotten the meaning of civil disobedience?

Yes, working in the U.S. (as a non-citizen) without a green card is illegal, and yet many people do so, and even have the "gall" to take to the streets to demand the right to do so. These are not just selfish scofflaws. They believe the law is wrong.

Yes, smoking pot is illegal (in most states), and yet many people do so, in public, in defiance of such laws.

Yes, practicing BDSM, same-sex copulation, and even consensual hetero sodomy are illegal in many states, and yet many people do so.

Yes, "refusing to disperse" from the sidewalk in front of government buildings is unlawful, and yet many people do so.

Yes, having an abortion will soon be illegal in many states if the Talibornagains get their way, and I hope to Goddess that people blatantly and defiantly refuse to follow these laws.

When the law is WRONG, sometimes the only way to get it changed is to refuse to abide by it.

edited for clarity

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Great post! Recommended.

Of course, I was arrested for civil disobedience last week. I've even smoked pot in public. Once in front of a cop, but it was in NYC, so she didn't really care.

[adwon]

2. Well

Many on this site seem to have forgotten that part of the core of civil disobedience is accepting the penalties that breaking a law entails. I don't disagree with the idea of civil disobedience, just the idea that you can break the law and expect to get off free because it's 'wrong.'

[Der Blaue Engel]

3. Part of civil disobedience is also fighting the law by fighting the

penalty. Otherwise, there'd be a lot of people spending their lives in jail, and it wouldn't be a very effective strategy.

[adwon]

8. I don't disagree

The essence of civil disobedience, when it comes to constitutional issues, is raising a constitutional defense. What I see often are expectations that simply because a group of people regard a law as wrong, they shouldn't be penalized. Obviously this is very limited in scope as the laws usually under discussion in this manner regard victimless crimes. I also see complaints about the police enforcing the laws, as though people would like the police to use discretion in selecting which laws to enforce. While I'd like police to refuse to enforce patently immoral laws, I'm really not so keen on them picking and choosing as a general rule.

I just don't see much acceptance of the fact that accepting the penalty, in order to show both respect for the law generally and the wrongfulness of the particular law, is essential to civil disobedience.

[lvx35]

4. Gandhi said that we are not required to follow a law that is repugnant to

our conscience. He was not the first, in fact I think it was more succintly said before he was born, in the words:

Disobediance to tyranny is obediance to God

[michael_1166]

6. Not everyone believes in a God

but I think "Disobediance to tyranny is obedience to your true nature" works just as well. :)

Recommended topic. Civil disobedience is our only hope, because the so-called democratic governments are not democratic governments anymore. It's the corporations who rule the world and democracy is an illusion being uphold by the mass media.

[lvx35]

9. I believe in God.

And I'm not ashamed one bit to replace the word "God" for the word "Truth", just as Gandhi did. Those who obey the concept of Truth, of science, of justice will come upon the exact same conclusions as I, as a believer, that we the people cannot and will not be subject to tyranny of any kind. Even death is a small thing in comparison with the humiliation and spiritual death of surrender. So I say, carry ON! WE ARE THE ONES DESTINED FOR VICTORY!!!

And fuck anybody who doesn't like it!
Love.

[michael_1166]

7. Self-delete (double post)

[RagingInMiami]

5. What you see is hypocrisy

It's all over DU.

[fasttense]

10. I bet bush* uses that same argument.

He writes those 700 signing statements because he believes the laws are unconstitutional (and probably he thinks the laws are immoral as well). He does not follow those laws because of his conscious.

Congress takes bribes from lobbyists because they believe the law against bribery does not apply to them. They probably assume that in their case the laws are immoral.

If you chose to break the law and follow your morals, you should be prepared to face the consequences of your actions.

When you use that argument, you open yourself up to an endless possibility of law breakers. The abortion bombers thought pro-choice laws were immoral. That is why they bombed the clinics. Where does that argument end?

[BeFree]

11. Where does it end?

Being that the leaders of the free world commit acts of civil disobedience daily, what are the kids to think?

They think as soon as they get power they will be in good company.

It could all end if we had a true democracy. A democracy where every law was brought up for renewal every five years or so. A democracy wherein everyone had a chance to express, through their representative, their displeasure or condoning of the laws that govern us.

But we are not given but one chance to have our voices heard, and now that the confidence in elections is wasted, even that one chance to be heard is going down the drain.

It ends, this way, in a sewer pit. Hold yer nose.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Yes, it's a very juvenile argument.

I can't (and for the most part don't) believe that adults actually use the "but it's illegal" argument.