DDT: A weapon of mass survival

[central scrutinizer]

Consider the sources: Fox News quoting from the Washington Times. Isn't that kind of incest illegal?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194332,00.html

The U.S. Government has finally begun to reverse policy on the insecticide DDT. Let’s hope that this policy shift represents the beginning of the end of what can only be called a crime against humanity: the decades-old withholding of the world’s most effective anti-malarial weapon from billions of adults and children at risk of dying from the disease.

The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) told the Washington Times this week (May 3) that it endorses and will fund the indoor spraying of DDT in sub-Saharan Africa. Malaria kills more than one million Africans annually, mostly children under five and pregnant women.

[northzax]

1. yes, must use insecticides

especially ones that are persistent and teratogenic in avian species!

can't just use $2 mosquito nets, just as effective, after all.

[Mugu]

17. I find it ironic that DDT was outlawed to protect the birds

and now West Nile is wiping out the birds and the mosquito is the transmission vector.

[XemaSab]

18. Were it not for the abolition of DDT

We would not have living bald eagles today.

Think about it.

[northzax]

21. or a bunch of other birds

basically, any raptors.

[XemaSab]

23. And Brown Pelicans

We were down to 200 pairs in California.

[northzax]

24. and Osprey

basically vanished from the Chesapeake. now they're back. can't have been the DDT, though. no way.

[Mugu]

26. I would be interested in knowing the vector for the Eagles and Pelicans

to ingest DDT.

My understanding of the alleged problem with DDT was that bugs would get a dose and before they could die would be eaten by the birds. The chemical would build up in the bird’s body and cause the shell of their eggs to be too thin which would cause the eggs to break. I don’t understand how predators would be affected unless the majority of their diet was other birds rather than vermin.

Don’t forget that there could have been other conditions responsible for the problem, if there was one. Remember a few years ago when there was a bunch of deformed frogs in some lakes (I don’t remember where). The immediate blame was some chemical contamination, but eventually the cause was found to be a common bacterium.

When I was a kid living in Western Kansas there were Jackrabbits everywhere. Then one day they disappeared. It wasn't human activity that wiped them out, but rabbit fever. A few years ago I used to enjoy crow hunting on occasion, but today there is no way I would harm a crow, you just don’t see any because of West Nile.

The outlawing of DDT is the main reason for the reemergence of the common bedbug in this country.

Even if the claim that DDT is detrimental to the bird population were found to be true, there is no need to have wide scale spraying of DDT to prevent most cases of mosquito spread diseases (it’s not just malaria). The plan is to allow the indoor use by spraying the walls of the home (it stains paint quite badly, but I don’t think that it will matter with mud huts) and dusting clothing when outdoors.

I have long believed that the powers that be wanted to limit the population of Africa. I suspect that when the history is finally written, that the human toll caused by outlawing DDT will be staggering. The mere stroke of a pen and millions die, and it doesn’t cost a dime. But most of these deaths will be Africans so nobody will notice.

[XemaSab]

27. The fish ate contaminated insects

and the birds ate the fish.

[Mugu]

30. I don’t know, but I’m going to guess that the diet of most fish is other

fish and not insects.

Look I’m not looking to argue for the sake of arguing. I’m not for the unrestrained spraying of anything anywhere. It’s not reasonable to think that we can kill every mosquito, and even if we could there are countless creatures that dine on the mosquito. But indoor spraying and personal use isn’t a great risk to birds and it’s a proven lifesaver for humans.

[XemaSab]

33. DDT is bioaccumulative

I would respect your opinion a little more if I didn't think you were pretty uneducated about why DDT was banned in the US to begin with. Your confusion about food webs speaks volumes.

Read "Silent Spring" and get back to me on this.

[Mugu]

34. So where was I factually incorrect?

You accuse me of ignorance without sighting any errors.

The fact is that millions of Africans are dying and it could easily be prevented. But their misery makes raping the continent easier while their dying children divert attention.

Once you have a more logical explanation than that you are welcome to get back to me.

Regards,

Mugu

[XemaSab]

36. I think the word you want is "citing,"

Just so you know.

[Mugu]

37. Got caught by the spelling police.

You are correct. At least I correctly spelled the wrong word. I’ve always needed an editor.


Regards,

Mugu

[XemaSab]

38. The deal as far as DDT goes is that I'm deeply suspicious

of any environmental rollbacks, especially when they're given in the form of an either/or choice between two deeply held progressive values.

This sounds a lot like the arguments I hear that only nuclear power will save us, or needing to waive environmental laws for the military, refineries, or hurricane reconstruction.

WHO has been advocating DDT for years as a means of combatting malaria, even as UNEP has called for worldwide abolition. The US has banned DDT use here, but US companies still make it and export it to other countries in our hemisphere, such as Argentina.

Birds such as Swainson's Hawks migrate from the US to Argentina during the winter, where they spend the winter eating grasshoppers laden with DDT. I've heard that the fields down there are full of dead hawks after they spray to kill the grasshoppers.

I understand that malaria takes an incredible human toll in Africa, but the FReeper anti-environmentalists have long held that we're murderers and we've killed more people than Hitler just by banning DDT, and I think it's a bunch of shit. There are so many problems facing Africa that it's hard to know where to start from a policy standpoint. AIDS, famine, genocide, and war; the colonial and apartheid legacy; gold, diamonds, coltan, and other very ugly commodities; some of the cruelest dictatorships the world has ever seen; and environmental destuction on a MASSIVE scale... In the face of all that, promoting the use of DDT to fight mosquito-borne diseases just seems like the likeliest "fix" that Americans will get rich off of.

I'm just cynical like that, ya know?

[alarimer]

29. It is called biomagnification or bioaccumulation

All of the birds involved would ingest food (say fish) that contained a small amount of the poison (and yes it is POISON to animals and people). If they ate lots of fish containing a little DDT, that adds up to a lot of DDT, which weakened the eggshells to the point they could not protect the young, thus crashing the populations.

There are other, more effective means of controlling mosquito populations, starting with eliminating sources of standing water (puddles, old tires, etc). The widespread use of insect repellents would help. That is another chemical but at least would not eliminate "good" insects and is safe for people to use. Or there are natural compounds that are effective. Widespread use of ANY insecticide has numerous bad side effects. Primarily, it will eventually lead to poison-resistent mosquitos, not a good thing at all.

[dipsydoodle]

2. Yes but what they have not said

is whether or not it will again become legal in the USA. If not then it just means they're comfortable with the thought of killing off some Africans - so what's new ?.

http://www.spiked-online.com/Printable/0000000CABF5.htm

[Mugu]

20. I can only assume that you believe that DDT is more toxic than malaria.

I guess that’s why all of us kids that rode our bikes behind the DDT fog trucks in the 1950s and 60s are still alive. If I can remember correctly (mind is gone due possibly to DDT exposure) there were some guys that used to go around the country and eat DDT in front of crowds to prove that DDT wasn’t toxic to humans.

[northzax]

22. not toxic to humans except in unrealistic doses

although it is probably a carcinogen. What it is toxic to is birds.

[alarimer]

31. There are drugs to treat malaria

there is no need for widespread use of a deadly chemical that has long-lasting effects on the environment.

[Mugu]

32. So the average African family will just jump in the SUV

and run down to the local pharmacy and get some medicine after getting a prescription from the family doctor?

Look I’m not looking to argue just for the sake of arguing. I’m not for the unrestrained spraying of anything anywhere. It’s not reasonable to think that we can kill every mosquito, and even if we could there are countless creatures that dine on the mosquito. But indoor spraying and personal use isn’t a great risk to birds and it’s a proven lifesaver for humans.

The fact of the matter is, I believe that a cold blooded calculation was made about how startlingly well that DDT killed disease carrying insects, the birth rates of Africans, and the wealth of raw minerals on the continent. You’re free to believe whatever you wish.

Regards,

Mugu

[tom_boy]

3. DDT may be bad

but 3rd world countries have enormous difficulties with mosquito born diseases like malaria.
We don't have to worry about that sort here, but its not like the insects are just annoying, they are actually killing people.

I guess I'd have to know exactly what the effects of DDT were, but saving the lives of children seems pretty important.

At what point does the life of a child take priority

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. The problem with Africa is poverty.

There are plenty of ways to deal with the malaria problem without destroying their environment.

This DDT thing is just some anti-environmental talking point by people who clearly don't care about the people of Africa.

[tom_boy]

10. Good point

I guess I need to do research on the different claims.
I have a kind of slow connection, so if you have the links handy, I'd appreciate it.

But if they are experiencing malaria right now, isn't elminating poverty a longterm solution? If people are dying right now, it seems the compassionate thing is to provide a short term solution.

Excuse my ignorance, but would you remind of some of the more effective ways to get rid of malaria?
The only one I recall was "draining swamps" which I think is just another way of saying "destroying wetlands"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. We could go in right now...

give anti-malaria medication to every body who has malaria, then prevent people from getting malaria. Then worry about Africa's long term economic growth.

Why don't we? It costs money, and they're African.

[jpak]

5. Mosquitoes quickly become resistant to DDT

and malaria parasites quickly become resistant to anti-malarial drugs.

The GOP mantra that "environmentalists are committing genocide" by opposing to renewed broadcast applications of DDT is a RW canard.

There is no truth to it whatsoever...

[tom_boy]

9. Sounds right.

You don't happen to have any links on this, do you?

[Viking12]

13. Tim Lambert at Deltoid does a nice job blogging on DDT

He has many links to relevant research.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/ddt/

[tom_boy]

15. thanks

[AngryAmish]

6. Has Jake "The Snake" Roberts been consulted?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. I think he's still on probation

for what he did to Ricky "the dragon" Steamboat.

[HereSince1628]

7. No doubt DDT is a cheap insecticide that can help stop insect borne

diseases in impoverished countries.

How much of this shit is going to be produced in the US? How much of it end up in unwanted places in our environment? Since Bush wants to completely gut the environmental regs you can be he doesn't really give a shit about the answer to that.

[OneBlueSky]

8. BushCo's goal is to invalidate ALL environmental protections . . .

and give corporations free reign (and maximum profits) to do whatever the hell they want . . .

they're succeeding magnificently . . .

[Mugu]

16. So it's worth the lives of millions of Africans

to be sure that that somebody doesn’t make a profit?

[XemaSab]

19. Remember in the SOTU a few years ago when Bush pledged

to fight AIDS in Africa then he cut family planning money?

Bush doesn't give a shit about Africans. He just cares about his corporate masters.

[OneBlueSky]

39. so it's worth the possible (probable?) extinction of who knows . . .

how many species? . . .

particularly now that we are already extinguishing species at an alarming rate -- even as many of those still with us are either on the brink or rapidly approaching? . . .

[Viking12]

14. 3 billion dead in 30 years?

According to source cited by tobacco/pesticide PR man and Faux News columnist the DDT "ban" has contributed to 100 million deaths per year but only 60 million people die each year from all causes.

[DemoTex]

25. Read "Silent Spring" by Rachel Carson (1962).

It was required reading in my house when I was growing up. My dad was an early opponent of DDT (he was an entomology professor).

[MisterP]

28. oo, Steven Milloy, I'm so--underwhelmed

[Odin2005]

35. Rachel Carson is rolling in her grave.

How quickly people forget the damage that chemical caused.