America Outsourced, Insourced, and Illegal Laborized: What Can We Do?

[Dr. Jones]

I'm getting sick and tired of seeing American companies get away with hiring illegal labor, outsourcing our jobs, and insourcing cheaper labor from other countries. I'm tired of seeing American companies pass over hard-working Americans in favor of cheap illegal labor. I'm tired of hearing about managers being told to consider outsourcing their entire divisions to India. I'm tired of the stories of hard-working folks getting laid off, and as if that wasn't enough of a slap in the face, having to personally train their foreign replacements.

Lately we've been discussing how companies have hired illegals to do the work that Americans WILL do and DO do, thus depressing American middle class salaries and usurping American jobs. We know that the REAL backbone of the American economy is not illegals, but AMERICANS - always has been, always will be. But lying, theiving, greedy, inhumane American companies have alot more tricks up their sleeves - ALOT more tricks that are busy at work systematically destroying the middle class and putting many into near poverty.

Insourcing is a problem also, as more people from other countries are coming over to the United States on H1B visas and usurping American jobs. As with illegal labor, companies know they can hire these people at a lower pay, which also depresses American middle class wages. Companies would argue that these foreigners are smarter and work harder than Americans, and on top of that, they're good for the bottom line because they don't ask for as much pay. What an insult! What a slap in the face! Another instance of unAmerican companies passing over well-qualified Americans in favor of cheaper labor. And even worse than outsourcing, this is happening on American soil. Disgraceful!

Between illegal immigrant labor, outsourcing, and insourcing - we have a HUGE problem on our hands, folks! And the middle class is getting hammered from all sides. In theory, the lower-paid labor is supposed to lead to more profits for the companies and lower prices for consumers, thus consumers have more money in their pockets and put it back into the economy. But this is a fallacy - for one, how does one explain the growing personal debt of most Americans? And how does it give any sense of peace to hard-working Americans whose pay is cut and whose jobs are lost to this kind of thing?

What can we do to stem the tide?

To hear some really incredible stories, and perhaps to share a story of your own, you can view this resource: http://www.americaoutsourced.com/index.cfm

[Daphne08]

1. It's the most unAmerican thing I've ever seen, and I'm plenty old!

Free markets, profits at any cost... how long can this go on?

[Joanne98]

2. Oh! You just hit on the biggest damn problem in the world.....

How many free hours do you have? Globalization, the WTO, the IMF and World Bank. It's all EVIL! Most people, even on DU, aren't getting the bigger picture. I would start by supporting all the anti-globalization websites. It's a complicated subject. The truth is BOTH parties are behind it. Google "The Washington Concensus" and a Harvard paper should come up. It's called neo-liberalism too. The whole world is getting turned into a corporate slave camp. If the immigration debate would focus on globalization instead of race, it would help a lot. But I don't know if that's going to happen. If I could suggest just one book, it would be "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. The 21st century will be age of the corporation

I have no doubt that "corporatism" will be the next political ideology to dominate this century. Nation states will be acquired as merely the muscle to defend their turf.

[Joanne98]

5. It's so depressing. I can't understand why people don't "get it".

In the future only "Owners" will be free. I'm thinking about becoming a corporation myself, just to survive.

[Dr. Jones]

8. **Watch "The Corporation" on DVD!!**

Long and not exactly a feel-good movie, but it lays out EXACTLY your premise. I was able to check it out for free at my library - maybe you can do the same?

[Joanne98]

18. link?

[Dr. Jones]

24. Here's the link to The Corporation DVD:

http://www.thecorporation.com/

[Dr. Jones]

6. And don't forget about the FTAA

Free Trade Area of the Americas. It's behind much of what's going on with the illegal immigration issue, in my opinion...

www.stoptheftaa.org

[Joanne98]

10. Oh how could I forget! Along with GATTS (S is for services)

I like to tell people that, in the future, after GATTS passes your local police department will be outsourced to the French. They think I'm crazy. I wish I was.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. US Corps LOVE the illegal immigration tsunami

It busts up unions, depresses all middle and lower wages. Don't believe the cliched line that "illegal aliens do the work Americans won't do." The unsaid part of this hackneyed phrase is that Americans won't do some of this work because corporations want to run their labor as though it were still the 1800's without regard to safety or a living wage.

I do find it a bit funny that the right wing is split just as much as the left on this issue. The righties have cultivated xenophobia in their ranks for decades and now when corporate interests want cheap foreign labor, they have to face a monster of their own making. Another example of this was the Dubai ports deal.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Another great argument for amnesty.

If the "illegals" are made "legal" then they can agitate for better jobs, better conditions, higher wages. Somehow, I would guess that most immigrants would prefer a "middle class" income than the poverty wages that the capitalists are paying them.

[Dr. Jones]

9. But some would argue that amnesty rewards those who

are in our country ILLEGALLY, and would lead to a massive influx of even more illegals if they find out America is carte blanche giving citizenship to illegals. And indeed, such a lax policy could potentially be a liability to our national security.

No country, no state, no local municipality could sustain this kind of influx. It's already putting tremendous strain on our hospitals, schools, healthcare facilities, and state and local governments - and we all pay the price for that.

With insourcing, they are in our country legally, but still have the same net effect on our jobs and economy as illegals: usurping American jobs and depressing wages.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. You're pissing in the wind.

They're here. They'll keep coming as long as they're desperate no matter what laws are passed or what idiotic measures are taken to try and stop them.

The same way the previous waves of immigrants came, for the same reasons, facing the same xenophobia and hysteria about the end of 'murka.

As long as the capitalists in their own countries force them out, and the capitalists in this country are able to avoid paying them decent wages by keeping them "illegal", the cycle will continue.

[Vinnie From Indy]

14. If what you say is true, why did it take until now for them to come?

It would seem that Mexico and other countries have always had problems with crushing poverty yet America has only had to deal with the ever increasing numbers of immigrants from these countires over the last decade or so. Why didn't they come in the millions in the 30's, 40's and 50's? Why now?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. They did come.

Or, do you think the hispanic population in the US (39,000,000) were all here before the pilgrims came to steal their jobs?

[Vinnie From Indy]

22. Not in the numbers we have seen over the last two decades.

Of course their has always been immigration, legal and illegal, from countries South of the border. The sheer numbers today dwarf, by far, ANY influx of immigrants to our country in the past.

[Dr. Jones]

25. The Pilgrims did not steal Hispanic jobs.

What are you talking about?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. They stole native American jobs.

Who do you think was hunting the deer, trapping the beavers, planting the corn, before the pilgrims got here and stole their jobs - and land, and anything else they could lay their hands on.

[Dr. Jones]

36. It's a totally different dynamic.

Native Americans continued to plant corn, hunt, etc. And also that was subsistence living - it wasn't their "job" in the modern sense, it was simply what they did to survive. And they continued to do so because they continued to live off the land.

When today's illegals take American jobs, that American is left with nothing. And in mnay industries, that American cannot get back into his/her field because illegals have driven them out by the companies paying them such low wages. So a double-whammy: lower pay overall and locked out of their lifetime careers.

[Joanne98]

15. Why can't we deal with the capitalists in their countries first?

Mexico is having an election soon. What's the plan?

[Dr. Jones]

16. It's not xenophobia, that's been discounted. It's a REALITY CHECK.

Illegals do put a tremendous strain on our social services and educational system. If more are allowed to come in at will, you betcha our local and state governments would crash, as would our hospitals, and schools. That's why we have laws on the books and restrictions on illegals. This is not a racial issue and it's not degrading any person of a particular skin color. It's facts-based and reality-based, and based also in sheer economics.

They won't keep coming if mass deportation becomes a reality. Or if more roundups occur. Or if illegals are given criminal status. Not advocating these policies, but just making the point that discipline would lead to a decrease in illegal immigration. Better yet, let's go after the companies that hire illegals!

[Vinnie From Indy]

12. Is that fair?

Is waving a wand and making all illegals legal or on the path to legality fair to anyone?

What of the millions in other countries that have waited, sacrificed and suffered to become Americans?

Have we abandoned the notion that we want to attract peoples of all nationalities, education levels and those that are being politically persecuted for millions upon millions of mostly unskilled laborers who will readily fill any job at any wage regardless of safety concerns etc.?

I, for one, do not relish a decades long process of pitting illegal workers against the poor, unemployed people that already exist in America. I believe the amnesty and guest worker programs are an excellent way for corporate America to do away with a hundred years of struggle by blue collar workers in America.

I have seen the results of the tidal wave of illegal workers in Indiana. The elephant in the room here is that immigrants are being exploited and forced to work for slave wages and blue collar workers already here have to compete with these people for jobs. No! Blanket amnesty is the wrong choice and it will be the medicine that kills a hundred years of struggle by the working man in America.

[Joanne98]

13. Adam Smith part two. There's just one problem......

Unless you have a "GLOBAL LEGAL SYSTEM" to enforce workers rights, the slave masters will just move from country to country. I would actually support amnesty if I thought there was any hope of that happening. Since they put in the WTO there is only global legal protection for corps and NOTHING for workers. If we can't fight this on the national level, how are we supposed to fight it globally. there isn't even any infrastructure to work with.

[Vinnie From Indy]

17. A good point!

This century will be exactly what you describe. Global corporations hop skotching across the globe for the cheapest labor. Coprorate personhood is a disaster for humanity and should be ended.

[Joanne98]

21. And workers will be forced "nomads" migrating constantly....

It's a nightmare scenario.

[TahitiNut]

29. Does 'amnesty' mean citizenship?

I'm against a labor force increasingly made up of workers without the entitlement to vote. That includes H1B, permanent residents, 'guest workers,' ex-felons, and (especially) undocumented workers. I'm guessing that in a civilian labor force of approximately 149 million people, we now have between 15% and 20% who are not entitled to vote in this country. It's also my impression that the majority of these people, but not all by any means, are in the lowest quartile of employment compensation.

Let's just review some 2005 labor statistics to get (perhaps) a better handle on this. The median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers was $651, with whites at $672, blacks at $520, Asians at $753, and Hispanics at $471. Members of unions had median weekly earnings of $801 and non-union had $622. In other words, union members earned 29% more than non-union workers, while whites earned 43% more than Hispanics and 29% more than blacks. While race (and associated educational opportunity) is undeniably a large determinant of earnings, it seems that national origin (including citizenship and immigration status) is also undeniably a factor.

16.0% of all workers in the "Accommodation and food services" industries earn less than the federal minimum wage. 5.9% of workers in private households earn less than the federal minimum wage.

The unemployment rate of workers in the "Accommodation and food services" industries 8.0% and of workers in private households is 8.1%. (Unemployment in the construction industries was 7.4%.) Compared to the overall rate of 5.1%, it's easy to see why folks conclude that undocumented workers, predominantly employed in such areas, are associated with both unemployment and substandard wages.


On edit: Another question ...
Once 'amnesty' is granted to current 'illegal aliens,' what happens to next year's influx of 2 million illegal aliens?

[Dr. Jones]

31. Illegals are fighting for both.

Their goal is full amnesty and U.S. citizenship.

Funny how a group that is in our country illegally would make such demands. What would happen if thousands of U.S. citizens walked over the border and rallied in the streets of Mexico City demanding THEIR "rights" to be granted amnesty and Mexican citizenship? They'd be locked up and deported back to the U.S., no questions asked! It's the same thing.

[Odin2005]

19. The corporatists want to make the national governments irrelevent.

They wan't to turn the national governments into rubber stampers that maintain the fiction of democracy when the real power is helled by the global corporate state, just like how Octavian Caesar became the defacto absolute ruler of Rome while keeping the Roman Snate in order to claim that he "saved the Republic." It's over folks, the West is dying.

[Joanne98]

23. WTO corporate CENTCOM, quasi borders, weakened states...

And most of all, the death of Democracy. A world in which only major shareholders can vote. This is something I have had nightmares about. No joke.

[Odin2005]

37. The Corporate Republic. I first heard about the concept in...

...the the turn-based stratagy game Civilization: a Call to Power, where it was a late game government choice. I was terrified when I read the description in the in-game "civlopedia," because I realized then that this was what happening to our country.

[Joanne98]

38. I never heard of it. Here's the Wikipedia description

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_%28computer_game%29

[barb162]

26. severe penalties to employers for not hiring citizens

jail time, heavy $$$ fines,etc. Tax the hell out of companies that prefer to outsource overseas and lower taxes for companies that have plants in the US.

[Dr. Jones]

30. I WISH!!

One reason I voted for Kerry in the last election was because of his plan to end tax breaks to those companies who outsource work. Kerry was very much pro-labor. He admitted he couldn't END it, but at least he could have stemmed the tide.

John Kerry SHOULD have been our President, and would have been if Diebold hadn't hijacked the elections...but that's another story altogether...

[tjwash]

27. Repeal NAFTA, CAFTA, and all the rest of the *FTA's for starters.

And dismiss it as the failed exepriment that it really was.

[Dr. Jones]

28. It's all under the umbrella of the FTAA...

There's been numerous anti-FTAA movements in South America lately because they don't want America to come in and bully them around. So maybe there's hope. Just wonder how far the fat-cat corporatists will go to hold on to their FTAA baby.

[Joanne98]

32. Pull out of the WTO and go back to bi-lateral agreements.

Kuchinich said that in his campaign.

[Dr. Jones]

33. Great idea...

we'll see if it gains any traction. The WTO has been one huge mess.

[BeFree]

35. You said 'Tide'

When I think of tide, I think of the water that rose up and drowned New Orleans and the gulf coast. And the evacuation that couldn't take place and the help that never came and the people getting rich from the disaster.

Therein lies your answer: We can do nothing as long as we continue to live off the cheap oil, the cheap chinese products making a few richer and richer, and the flatulent inflating of the Hinderbush Blimp.

[Joanne98]

39. We should rid the world of "contractor scum" too

[PsN2Wind]

40. You know you're not supposed to

mention illegal immigration as a problem in the competition for blue-collar jobs, jobs that used to be the foundation of the middle-class.
People who's panties get all in a wad over H1B visas, which allow legal immigration and employment, think that unfettered illegal immigration is good.

[Dr. Jones]

41. Pretty backwards, ain't it?

Both are detrimental to the American middle class. Beats me why some would be angry at H1B visas, and yet are okay with ILLEGAL immigrants and think a totally open border is the answer. Both are a HUGE problem in our country.

My solution? Curb H1B visas, stop giving tax breaks to companies who outsource, go after companies that hire illegals, and GIVE US OUR JOBS BACK.