I Challenge DU to Support Patrick Kennedy

[incapsulated]

That's right, I consider this a challenge, the political character building kind. And by "political" I DO NOT mean the usual liberal introspective, "let's be honest", fair is fair and right and wrong kind of politics. I mean real politic, the kind that the Republicans know and live and breathe and win on.

Patrick Kennedy had a late night car accident. No one was hurt. He was not given a breathalyser test. He was sent home after totaling his own car.

End of story.

But we all know it was not. Because of his last name and because of something else I will get to. But immediately, not just in the whore media we deride daily, but right here on DU, the inquisition began. People wondered if he was drunk. They said he got "preferential treatment" because he is a congressman. They didn't buy his Ambien story. They called him an idiot for even putting it forth.

First, whether or not he was drunk is something you and I will never know, not for a fact, because he was not given the test. Unless witnesses come forth in the future attesting to knocking back a few with Patrick before the accident.

Preferential Treatment. I have news for the tender souls on DU. Each and every congressperson is given kid glove treatment that would make you fume if you knew about it in detail. They are VIPs, especially on the Hill. It's even worse with senators. That goes for Democrats and Republicans. Welcome to the real world.

But there is a very important difference between Democrats and Republicans, and that is how they are treated not by the Capitol Police, but the treatment they get in the media.

When a very likely drunken vice president of the United States shot a man in the face, and didn't bother to call the police until the next day, you would not be naive to assume that this would be a scandal that would last for a solid year. When a dead woman was discovered on a congressman's office floor you would also expect, oh, a little blow-back. When innumerable senators and congressmen were discovered to have mistresses, illegitimate children, canceled checks for abortions for their girlfriends, even while claiming to be "pro-life"... all this, one would think, would be not only a media frenzy, but would ruin their careers. You were wrong and there is one, single shared attribute that all of these people share. They are Republicans.


Please compare this, all of this, to Patrick Kennedy wrecking his car. And rethink your need to hang him. Because the media is way ahead of you and you are helping them do their job, the job of smearing Democrats. Can you imagine this being a major story if this was any Republican congressman? BREAKING NEWS? Think hard on that after the list of Republican transgressions I listed. Think about McKinney and the police deciding to make a case out of a tiny congresswoman "assaulting" a cop in the hallway.

Why, the only thing worse I can imagine than this is someone getting a blow-job and lying about it. An impeachable offense.

Let's try it the Republican way for once. Support our guys when they get in a bit of trouble. Does this mean we may be wrong, that evidence may come forth in the future that makes him a liar? Sure. And what do we lose if that happens? The moral high ground? Are you kidding me? Over a car wreck?

It's not like he shot a guy in the face or started an illegal war.

I'm going to edit this to add that it appears that his car was merely bent up a bit. Which only makes my case stronger. A fender bender. Please.

[dogday]

1. I support him

I have no reason to disbelieve him at this point....

[KingFlorez]

2. I support him

[dogday]

3. What happened to innocent until

proven guilty?????

[HereSince1628]

4. The car didn't look totaled to me. Must be a worthless car if

a headlight and a dented quarter panel totaled it.

Personally I ain't buying into any massive blue loyalty right or wrong movements.

I'm one of those who say let the truth be known and let the issue be resolved fairly.

[incapsulated]

12. Truth and fairness...

Yes, I think we are ALL waiting for that to materialize, and I'm not talking about Kennedy.

Are you kidding me? Ruthless inquisition for a Dem who wrecks his car while a gang of criminals take the country straight to hell. Works for me.

[HereSince1628]

28. Unfortunately, your zealousness seems to have you out of sorts

The car wasn't totaled it's damage is hardly worthy of the term "wrecked." Although I accept that this may be a semantic difference because some people call any accident a wreck. People get more damage than that hitting the side of their garage door.

IMHO He's not being persecuted by the media because he's a Democrat. He's being persecuted because he has the surname of an American celebrity family.

He is apparently able to demonstrate he does have the prescriptions he claims. I think things are going to turn out as good as they can for him.

[incapsulated]

43. Well, that makes my case stronger, if anything

It wasn't even a wreck, it was a fender bender. STOP THE PRESSES!!!

Of course the Kennedy name assured this would be news. But anyone here can come up with a list of HIGH Crimes and misdemeanors that are, and have been committed by the Republicans that are ignored by the same media that is in a frenzy over this. And you can throw in every kind of sexual transgression, drunken episode, and now, hookers at Watergate, and none if it will ever get the coverage of a single Dem getting caught doing something unforgivable like.... a car accident.

I'm not helping them.

[Finder]

5. The other day I told my son...

(jokingly)that things were getting interesting and to expect either a dead Kennedy or a Kennedy scandal soon. Works like a charm every time.

[MadHound]

6. Frankly, I don't care who it was

When an obviously impaired person gets out of a freshly wrecked vehicle, and is not given a breathalyzer test, instead being escorted home by the cops, that is indeed preferential treatment, and it shouldn't be condoned. Yes, I realize that this goes on daily with our politicians, but that doesn't make it right or just.

Frankly if Kennedy were smart, he would come clean one way or the other. Go get a blood test to show that yes, he's had Ambien in his system. It give faith back to the American public, and show that at least some politicians, Democratic ones at that, believe in equality and justice for all.

Sorry, but I just can't join you in your position. Democrat, Republican whatever, the law does and should apply to all of us equally, not preferential treatment for the favored few.

[dogday]

8. Ba-bye

[MadHound]

22. ?

You think that I'm going somewhere? Your comment makes very little sense.

[dogday]

27. So does yours

I said ba-bye because obviously this is not the thread for you.... Ba-bye....

[MadHound]

29. Ummm, I think they have moderators that police this board

And since you aren't one, I would suggest that you leave the decision of who belongs where up to them.

[dogday]

31. I did not make a decision`

I said because of your post, this support thread of Patrick Kennedy is not for you... You have found him guilty as charged before any charge filed... That is what I mean....

[MadHound]

37. Point out anywhere that I said Kennedy was guilty

The only thing that I'm advocating for is equality of treatment, and that if Kennedy wanted to put a stop to this stream of criticism he could go get a blood test done to show the presence of Ambien. It is only in your own overblown imagination that I'm stating whether or not he's guilty.

And frankly any thread I care to post in is the thread for me, because I find it of interest. Sure, I might be playing devil's advocate, but that is a position that can be beneficial. God knows, we get too much lockstep thinking around here anyway.

Don't like my posts, hey there's always the ignore button:eyes: Believe me, it won't hurt my feelings.

[dogday]

44. Read this

Frankly if Kennedy were smart, he would come clean one way or the other. Go get a blood test to show that yes, he's had Ambien in his system. It give faith back to the American public, and show that at least some politicians, Democratic ones at that, believe in equality and justice for all.

Sorry, but I just can't join you in your position. Democrat, Republican whatever, the law does and should apply to all of us equally, not preferential treatment for the favored few

He has come clean, you just choose to disbelieve him... Both prescriptions were prescribed by Capitol Hill Physician... You imply guilt big time...This is a support thread for Patrick Kennedy, you say you can't support us... So why hang around????

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dogday]

65. I don't respond well to mean words

and shouting, and cursing language. If you cannot post nicely, please don't post at all.. Thanks :hi:

[MadHound]

67. I don't respond well to being told where I should and shouldn't post

You don't want to get blasted with both barrels by me, don't tell me what I can or should do. Understand?

[dogday]

71. Ba-bye

[MadHound]

78. LOL!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Jon8503]

147. He has my support and I wish him will at the clinic ---

[bigtree]

14. your position is GUILTY until proven innocent?

:shrug: What's up with that?

[MadHound]

26. No, my position is that every person should be treated equally

Under the law.

Face it, if you or I had a fender bender, got out and were acting disoriented at the scene of the accident, we would have had a breathalyzer shoved down our throat as soon as the cops got there, if not hauled off to the police station to have a blood draw done checking for drugs. Instead Kennedy gets the priveleged treatment, no breathalyzer, no hassle and a ride home.

Hypocrisy, it's not just for Republicans anymore.

[Jayhawk Lib]

45. If it had been you or I

you can darn sure bet we would have been tested.....and very rightfully so. They would not have let us leave the scene without being tested and that is the way it should be....

[bigtree]

46. you're saying that others haven't escaped a sobriety test

for accidents? Only the congressman? I think officers exercise that judgement all of the time. They should be allowed to do so.

Were the officers' assertions that they smelled alcohol contained in the initial report? I think those accusations came in a subsequent letter to superiors. Looks like a smear. Cops aren't at all above that.

[MadHound]

61. Again, just because this sort of privelege is extended to others

Doesn't make it right or just. I'm willing to bet large sums of money that if you or I drove to DC, got into a single car fender bender, and were acting impaired and disoriented, we would have at least a breathalyzer done on the spot. How much money you got.

Equality for all people, that's what this country was founded on.

[Virginia Dare]

119. I admire your idealism....

and if you've never spent alot time in D.C., you'll never want to.

I personally witnessed something on the street, right in the middle of the day, close to G.W. University. There was a white kid stumbling around, high to the gills on God knows what, so someone called 911. The cops showed up, then an ambulance and pretty soon, the street was filled with what seemed like every top-brass cop in the city trying to figure out what the hell to do with him. I've since wondered who that kid was, and what ultimately they decided to do with him.

The imperiousness and self-importance in this town is sometimes just overwhelming.

[Virginia Dare]

48. You might be missing the point..

Yes, there is preferential treatment, and yes, it's wrong, but it's so ingrained, why are they bringing attention to THIS PARTICULAR INCIDENT? Why is the press in a tizzy? Could it be because he's a KENNEDY?

:think:

[MadHound]

66. So we should just let Kennedy slide on this exercise of privlige

Simply because the press is calling him on it, and hasn't done so with Republican indiscretions? Sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right friend, never have, never will. All it does is make one a hypocrite.

[incapsulated]

77. Then call me a "hypocrite"

I don't give a flying fuck if Kennedy got "preferential treatment" after bending his fender. Did he shoot someone in the face? Come ON. None of this outrage over the VIP treatment will change it, except a Democrat will be tried, convicted and hung in the media because he drove off the road.

No one was hurt. We do NOT know if he was drunk.

I simply do not care, given the crimes that are going on on a daily basis in DC.

[Virginia Dare]

118. I'm not the hypocrite, the press covering this are the hypocrites..

I'm not making any excuses for any wrongs that have been done here. I'm questioning why the press is making a big to-do about this ONE PARTICULAR INCIDENT.

[Dorian Gray]

129. Of course it's because he's a Kennedy...

Another example of the problems with priviledge, not to mention the number of tragedies that have plagued this family. It's really crazy.

As I stated in another post, I am glad nobody was hurt, and I am happy that he is entering into a treatment facility based on his own admission of abusing drugs. Now that we know he's guilty of driving under the influence, we should take those cops to task.

[Pathwalker]

79. Well, the drunk teenager who hit my husband GOT AWAY WITH IT!

It was a Friday night when she sent my husband sailing over the top of her car, his left leg SHATTERED.
When she ecited the car, the empties rolled out on the ground, one smuckinh him in the face. Since the cop on the scene recognized her - THE POLICE CHIEF'S DAUGHTER - he picked up the empties, threw them into her car and ORDERED her to leave the scene. She was not ticketed, she wasn't given a breathilizer test - he refused to even write down her liscence plate #, and my husband spent the next 3 &1/2 years and six surgeries recovering from that wreck! please notice I said drunk TEENAGER!

Care to guess what party they belonged to?

[MadHound]

84. I'm sorry for your husband's accident.

And I'm a firm believer that everybody, Republican, Democrat, rich, poor, whatever, should be treated equally. Anything else is a mockery of the ideals that built this country.

Have you thought about suing the police chief and his daughter?

[Pathwalker]

96. We were told not to sue. In no uncertain terms.

But, our insurance company pressed the issue on identifying her, and went after her insurance company. As a result, her insurance company had to pay for all the medical expenses - close to a million dollars. Our car insurance company provided disability payments, but it was still a horrific time - he almost bled to death during one surgery.

Equality is a wonderful ideal; unfortunately you don't see it much anymore in America. We have become a mockery of the ideals upon which we were founded, and yes, both political parties are guilty. I'm beginning to think the Kennedy story was just a way to fill aire space until the Goss story came out - what do you think?

[MadHound]

103. Oh sure, it's a diversion, like much other stories

And I agree, the ideal of equality under the law has become a fond memory in most cases. Perhaps that's one reason it pisses me off when I see ever increasing examples of privlige trumping all, no matter who it is, Bush, Kennedy, Cheney, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

I'm glad that you got at least some recompensation from the insurance companies. Still sucks that they're letting the PC daughter skate on this however. If all the police are doing is making threatening noises, make it public, put in the paper, and bring the whole corrupt nest of them down. I know, I know, easier said than done, and I don't blame you if you don't. It's just the injustice of it all, large and small, that burns me.

Good luck to you and best of health to your husband:hi:

[saracat]

101. We would not have had our accident spread all over the news!

And we most likely would not have officers who were not even on the scene speculating that we were drunk on television! Is that equal treatment? Do you consider that priveldged? Or do you just have an ax to grind with the Kennedys?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. I agree

It shouldn't be overblown but it needs to be straightened out. Of course, anything a Kennedy does will be overblown; such is the nature of celebrity..or royalty.

If he has a drinking problem he certainly comes by it honestly. I'm told it is genetic, and we sure have a lot of it in my own family so I'm not going to throw stones.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. wrecked?

What car was this?

[MadHound]

32. Patrick Kennedy's car, do you like being obtuse

Wrecked is a term that can apply to any damaged car, from fender bender to completely totaled. Sorry I wasn't specific enough for your refined tastes:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

92. Frankly, I consider a person who considers...

a scratch and a busted headlight to be a "wreck" to have less credibility than, well, a staggering Kennedy.

[MadHound]

97. ??!

Could you restate that please, and it may just be me, but your post didn't make a bit of sense. I think that you left out a few words:shrug:

[Jayhawk Lib]

38. I agree 110%....nt

[MadHound]

41. OMG, a Jayhawk fan agreeing with a Tiger fan! What a day!

:evilgrin: How's life up in Lawrence these days?:hi:

[ComerPerro]

40. Gotta say I agree

[Jokerman]

50. I'm with MadHound on this one.

It's time we ended the preferential treatment in health care, pensions, and anywhere else it exists.

If Kennedy wasn't drinking and had been given a breathalyser (like anyone else) then there would be no story.

[woo me with science]

69. I agree with you, BUT

I think it is important to make this point loudly with respect to Cheney and the shooting incident, too. The difference in MSM media coverage of the two incidents is ridiculous. Does anyone remember a big mainstream media outcry about the 24 hours Cheney took before speaking to police about shooting a person in the face?

It is THIS double standard that should be highlighted now. Don't give Kennedy special treatment, and show how Cheney ALREADY GOT IT.

[MadHound]

87. Hey, I'm with you

And I was yelling just as loudly about the excesses of privlige in Cheney's case too. Across the board, no matter what party or class, all should be treated equally under the law. It's the American way.

[Chico Man]

70. I agree, thanks

They should have tested him. If it were me, I would have been tested.

[alfredo]

98. He said he complied fully with what the police directed. If true he

wasn't at fault in this matter. It would be the police who are at fault.

If he is indeed taking Ambien, then his behavior is consistent with other reports of such behavior. He was disoriented. He thought he was going to a vote. I have had to deal with a sleep walker for many years and that sounds like they type of thing that would come out of the mouth of the sleep walker. Ambien causes people to sleep walk.

I will wait and see if indeed he has had a bad reaction to Ambien.

He is going to speak at a 3 PM news conference today. Tune in and see what he says.

[Ariana Celeste]

126. I agree

As an above poster said, I think the double standard should be pointed out, but I won't support anyone driving while impaired. He said himself he was on Ambien. Good for him for being honest, but regardless. My brother and father both died in drunken car accidents, thank goodness nobody went down with them. I can't look the other way at this kind of thing- fender bender or totalling a car, doesn't matter.
It pisses me off that people aren't treated equally when it comes to laws being broken. Congressmen and Senators of both parties get by with slaps on the wrist, and I think it's wrong for both parties.

[dogday]

7. Good to see people support him

I was saddened by the thread that pretty much said he was guilty...

[bigtree]

9. dead dog Democrat here

:patriot:

[Daylin Byak]

11. I support him

[Joanne98]

10. I support him.

[Robbie Michaels]

13. I Support Him

Not because he's a Democrat. I support him because I believe you are innocent until proven guilty. I'm waiting for all the facts to come out before I pass judgment.

If only the blogosphere, as a whole, could do that once in awhile.

[bdamomma]

15. I support him he's my rep from RI

the media I don't support.

aren't there other things more important to focus on????

[Johonny]

16. OMG

a car accident... the news must slow down and take a look.

[terip64]

18. He's got my support.

[IndyOp]

20. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing!! Great Job - Admire Republican Loyalty?

DEMS SHOULD TRY IT SOME TIME.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

Let Republicans attack Dems. Don't freakin' help them - not with attacks on Cynthia McKinney, not with attacks on Patrick Kennedy.

[dogday]

24. I like your thinking

When all the facts are in, then we can come to our conclusions..

Support all our Democrats.....

[Virginia Dare]

21. I will admit...

I was one of the naysayers about Cynthia McKinney. While I did not doubt her claims of racial discrimination, I thought she was in the wrong in that particular situation.

I'm rethinking this now. I'm starting to believe that there is a GOP mole in the C.H.P.D.

People get passes for who they are probably almost every day in D.C., the vast majority of the time it goes unreported, why the press feeding frenzy over this one incident? Someone fed the press this story, who?

Disclaimer: I do not advocate DUI in any way shape or form and ANYBODY suspected of DUI should be charged and if found guilty punished.

[incapsulated]

33. I agree...

And if and when he is charged, then he will have to defend himself.

However, I'm not going to help the judge and jury that is the whore media convict him. Not when they ignore the crimes that are committed by this administration every fucking day.

[BeFree]

23. You don't get it, do you?

Kick 'em while they are down. And if you're a Dem, you are down. Get over it.

There are more important things that need to be ignored, and if we all focus on this minute matter, we can continue, just like the white house press corps has taught us.

[Mr_Spock]

25. It's a political story that we know the RW is going to latch onto

They have nothing else good to say, and we know how they love to attack people - especially Kennedy's.

It's prudent to look at the story from all angles IMHO. Boy Scout motto: "be prepared".

We haven't had much to feel defensive over lately - one has the distinct urge to want to punch PatK in the face at this point for driving into a barricade at 3AM, no matter what the reason.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Incap ........

..... yours is a strong, clear voice of **partisan** reason.

I'm right there with you!

K&R

[incapsulated]

36. Why, thank you.

Call me a yellow dog partisan on this issue, and I'll take it as a compliment, lol!

:hi:

[robbedvoter]

34. Victim of MSM feeding frenzy - I support him.

You know them:
The press secretary announces those decisions, and you people of the press type those decisions down. Make, announce, type.

[Weaksauce]

35. If only my freind hadn't been killed by a drunk driver...

maybe I would support him.
But I'm a bit jaded on the subject. I don't care if this was Dr.Dean or Chavez, I still wouldn't support them on this...

He wasn't arrested so there will be no due process and therefore no "innocent until proven guilty". I can only base my decision on my emotions and experiences.

[dogday]

39. Oh how sad

that you make decisions on guilt without the benefit of a trial.....

[Weaksauce]

102. Yeah poor little rich boy

No need for trial, this is court of public opinion. Lucky for Patrick that is as far as this matter is going. Noone will drop support of his politics or vote him out because of this, I just don't see supporting him as valid.

Maybe more will come out that will make me change my mind, but certainly sounds like he is admitting he should not have been driving. Rx drugs or booze, either way the conclusion is the same- do not drive if impaired.
Allowing cops to drive you home is just proof that he was unfit to drive. If he was fit he would've brushed the cops off and they would've let him go. Am I missing something?

Minor situation in this case no doubt, but major issue w/ bodies piling up. That's just how I see it, support what you will.

edit for grammar

[seabeyond]

42. except you are assuming, and rather harshly that the man was drunk

and how fair is that.

did you see the car damage. gotta tell you, drunk tends to lead to fast and careless driving. the damage to the car does NOT indicate fast driving at all. could you even wait for more info, like what the car looked like, that we just got, before crucifying the guy, even with a sad experience or maybe knowing your sad experience influences your own judgment?

[jsamuel]

49. .

wrong place

[Weaksauce]

105. No I am assuming he was impaired, based on fact that cops drove him home.

What else you got?

[incapsulated]

53. I sympathize with your feelings..

However, we do not know if he was drunk. This is an assumption at this point, but we don't have much to base it on. I'm willing to give the ambien story some consideration, frankly, and there have been plenty of news stories attesting to what he claims. Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't conveniently using that as an excuse and lying, but we simply do not know.

But I fully respect how you feel about this, given your experience. I'm sorry about your friend, that is terrible.

[Weaksauce]

85. I'm not saying we should string him up but...

Driving under the influence of any drug is no excuse. If he was taking ambien he was given explicit written instructions on the precautions to be taken. That is more warning than a bartender gives on the effects of booze.

The man is rich as god, if he is sneezy and loaded on meds he should take a cab home, or if he is actually drunk a cab should've been the plan when he began his evening. This subject strikes a cord, maybe just for me...

There just is no excuse and no cause for support IMO.

[Beelzebud]

55. I lost a friend to DD too. But have you seen pics of the "wrecked" car?

The bumper was bumped.

BFD...

[Weaksauce]

80. Not yet

This time maybe, what about next time? And no I have not seen the pics. Funny how I've driven for years but never bumped my car. Maybe its cause I'm not drunk or not under influence of drugs.

[Beelzebud]

83. Or just lucky. I've gotten in a few fender benders.

And that is all this was.

You don't have to be intoxicated to get in a fender bender.

[Weaksauce]

88. Did the copos drive you home afterwards?

Cause I doubt that is standard procedure. Unless the driver couldn't drive maybe because unable. Why would that be? Hmm, maybe he was impaired?

[Bridget Burke]

56. So--you consider him a "Far Left" Icon....

Like Dr Dean or Chavez?

And we don't really know that Kennedy was drunk.

[Weaksauce]

74. Not at all, don't know much about him

I'm just saying how much I'm disgusted by people that brush off DD as a simple little mistake or something we should support because he's simply on "our side".

[Bridget Burke]

106. There is still no proof....

That Kennedy was drunk.

[Weaksauce]

121. Still no proof? How about an admission?

Doesn't have to be drunk on booze, he was impaired on drugs. The difference is lost on me when he got into a car and decided to drive. If he'd smacked into a pedestrian it wouldn't have mattered how he'd gotten fucked up, it would only matter that he was fucked up.

Oh yeah, and he just held a conference saying he's checking into rehab. Whoops.

[bvar22]

47. Would you be offering this challenge of "blind support" if

the the impaired driver who wrecked his car at 3AM were Tom Delay?

Is it OK with you that celebrities and members of the rich elite are given rides home while your children would be jailed (or at least "escorted" to a hospital for "tests" in the same circumstances?

I support Mr. Kennedy as much as the laws allow. If he has a problem, I pray he gets help to solve it.
I am strongly OPPOSED to a two tiered justice system that offers preferential treatment to members of The Ownership Class.
The "Everybody Does It" justification is a Logical Fallacy.

"Impaired Driving" kills many innocents every year. It is an offense I don't minimize.
I support JUSTICE for Mr Kennedy and everyone else.

I find this "Challenge" an appeal to the Least Common Denominator.
I am aware of the inequities of Media Coverage. Your approach is not the way to deal with this problem.

[Beelzebud]

51. Have you seen the pictures of the "wrecked" car?

They are making much more out of this story than is there.

I caused more damage to one of my cars, one time, by kicking it...

[stepnw1f]

93. No Kidding

it was a fender bender, not a wrecked car.

[incapsulated]

59. You have missed my point entirely

My point is, if this were Tom Delay, there would NOT be the media frenzy to convict the man on little more than speculation.

Why are you willing to convict this man? Is someone dead? Do you know, for a fact, that he was drunk?

I'm sorry, but I am NOT going to help the republican enablers that are the media rip another democrat to shreds because he drove his car into a barrier while they ignore the real crimes that are commited by their owners every fucking day.

Justice for Everybody. If ONLY.

[bvar22]

89. "Justice for Everybody. If ONLY."

And as long as people continue to support a two tiered Justice System, that is what we will have.

Nowhere did I say I want to convict Patrick Kennedy. That is another Logical Fallacy (Strawman) you employed.
I DID call for Justice.
A single car accident at 3AM where the driver admits to being impaired calls for more investigation, NOT the destruction of evidence. The same rules that apply to me should apply to Dick Cheney AND Patrick Kennedy.

I don't support turning a blind eye to anyone based on Bank Account or Celebrity Status.

[incapsulated]

99. You are basing your argument...

On a set of presumptions that are incorrect. I made a point that this kind of reasoning is not what I am addressing.

You are right, the justice system is unfair, biased in favor of the rich and privileged.

But calling for an "investigation" of Kennedy's little fender bender, is, to quote Apocalypse Now, "like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500", "it was a lie".

Real. Politic. That, and not the inequities of justice system, is what is being played out with this media frenzy. Do you honestly believe that continuing to pursue Pat Kennedy's fender bender is going to make a scintilla of difference regarding the issues you address? Or will it simply serve as yet another distraction from the serious crimes that are being committed by the people that the media always ignore, on the back of a democrat, what a surprise.

[bvar22]

113. No.

My "presumptions" are valid.

*Single Car accident

*3AM

*Driver admits he is impaired

Evidence SHOULD have been obtained, not destroyed.
I am calling for an INVESTIGATION of the police officers.

IF Patrick Kennedy was Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol, he should OPENLY accept the legal consequences, as should we.

The Media frenzy is another issue.
I pray the Democratic Party will incorporate a Plank in the Platform calling for the return to the Fairness Doctrine and a repeal of the Telecommunication Act of 1996. Until those reforms happen, there is little we can do about it EXCEPT demand that OUR people hold themselves to a higher standard of Honesty and Accountability.......literally avoiding even the appearance of impropriety.

[incapsulated]

138. You may well get your investigation

Of that horrible miscarriage of jusitice that occured on the night our innocence died.

And it will dominate the news and every American will know of every detail of the incident, and Kennedy will be the face of the corruption that plagues DC.

"Porter who?"

[jsamuel]

52. I support finding out the truth

at first, I thought he was drunk (the whole "got to get to a vote at 3am" thing)...

But now knowing all the facts
- He started a new med that day
- That med has a tendency to get people to sleep walk
- The damage was so small, it is extremely unlikely to have been done by a drunk person
- If this was a repub, it would be on page 20 in the local paper and that is it...

[dogday]

54. It helps to get all the facts, does it not?

I wish more would take the time to read and study this story like you have.... :hi:

[LilyLibber]

57. This was the TOP STORY

...on ABCNews.com this morning, trumping immigration, the war in Iraq, Rumsfeld's encounter with protesters including an ex-CIA agent, strategies to protect against bird flu, new documents just discovered documenting al-Qaeda's new Iraq strategy, the latest development in the Sago Mine tragedy testimony, the DC Sniper making his opening statements as his own lawyer, the troubled agreement to end the carnage in Darfur, etc. :puke: Unconscionable. :grr:

[dogday]

60. Thank God For The Kennedys

Right? Now I know this is just the M$M pushing the right wing agenda... Trying to make Dems look as bad as Republicans... I tell you if that is all the repubs would do, is bang their cars, the world would be in a hell of a lot better shape....

[redqueen]

63. Don't forget the Enron-ed GDP! US in recession?

:bounce:

[Notoverit]

62. The fender bender of the century! Off with his head!

No fenders in this world will be safe while a Kennedy drives!

[TayTay]

64. I do support him.

I just wish he had been given the breathalyzer test. It would make a better case for what he says happened.

I don't want anything to happen to Patrick Kennedy. But appearance of special treatment is a bad thing. Bad for him.

[partylessinOhio]

68. I support Patrick Kennedy. Bravo, for your post!

I am very sad to have read what is being posted by many at DU today. I am very sad that his family is being attacked and that I was reported for defending his mother.

I guess this isn't a place for a real Democrat. It is very sad to realize that the Democrats will not take back anything in our government because they are too divided within themselves. They seem to have learned nothing from the scum that will stick together and paper over the worst crooks and liars that have destroyed our country.

Good luck to all of you and I hope someone can prove me wrong.

[Chico Man]

72. What if it were Rush Limbaugh?

Equal treatment under the law. I would have been tested under the same circumstances. Not found guity, but tested. Politically, he must have seen this coming. If he were smart, he would have been tested.

[olefty]

73. Can I get some details one of your examples?

"When a dead woman was discovered on a congressman's office floor you would also expect, oh, a little blow-back."

I don't know how I could have missed this one. Who was it? When? Thanks

[incapsulated]

82. You didn't know about our friend, Rep. Joe Scarborough?

YES, that Joe Scarborough!

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20010808Klausutis.html

[dogday]

112. Wow--now that is something

What was the consensus on this????

[glitch]

75. I support Kennedy. I blame Ambien.I hope he makes a bfd case out of it.

I am not kidding.

[hexola]

76. He should resign...

It's simple to produce a toxicology test to prove he was on whatever he says...this hasnt happened yet...

There are plenty of people who can do his job...

[robbedvoter]

81. Yeah, cuz a fender bender - unbecoming for a rep!

We all know one has to be a higher form of human being to me a member of the House! :sarcasm:

[hexola]

86. Thats just it...he's just man...

Not a god...it's just a job...there are many people who are qualified...

[saracat]

107. As I posted earlier, I saw Patrick at three cocktail parties in

one day and his drink of choice was "bottled water". I got him his drinks I believe his mother's history has made him cautious.I absolutely believe he was not drunk. I have a family member who had a similar accident. It is more than possible. Patrick owes the public no explanation. He can produce his percritption if he chooses. This is a medical mistake for which you would have a man proved to be one of our most competent Reps resign? I really have to question the motive behind that remark! We need more Reps like Patrick, not less.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

116. I saw him at best buddies

Bottled water throughout the evening. My friend has had more contact with the Kennedys and she doesn't believe he was drunk that night.

[saracat]

131. Thank you. Notice how many

jump to conclusions about someone they don't know. They are as bad as GOP Kennedy bashers!

[Bridget Burke]

108. Says a man with a Dead Junkie Avatar.....

Yes, I know that Jerry Garcia was far more. But--aren't you an advocate for purity?

[hexola]

114. I'm going to have a hard time accepting the lack of a sobriety test...

I seem to go through at least 2 sobriety check points a year...even more if you include "compliance checks"

My friend was broadsided by a school bus that ran a light...the drug dogs were there before he could get out of his car...and before the ambulance...

So - it looks like preferential treatment to me...

I know one doesnt have to prove innocence...but it wouldnt hurt - espcially when you get prefered treatment...

There are tests for alcohol that can be given after the fact...they might not show how much - but it would reinforce his claim

If he was in his underwear...he can keep his job...

[Bridget Burke]

135. Did he refuse a sobriety test....

Or did the police just "neglect" to do one?

The whole system that allows preferential treatment for politicians in DC is at fault. Of course, his case is getting more publicity because he's a Kennedy (D).

[hexola]

132. Patience runs out on junkie...

Patience runs out on the junkie
The dark side hires another soul
Did he steal his fate or earn it?
Was he force-fed, did he learn it?
Whatever happened to his precious self control?

Like him I'm tired of trying to heal
This tom-cat heart with which I'm blessed
Is destruction loving's twin?
Must I choose to lose or win?
Maybe when my turn comes I will have guessed

These are the horns of the dilemma
What truth is proof against all lies?
When sacred fails before profane
The wisest man is deemed insane
Even the purest of romantics compromise

What fixation feeds this fever
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver
Am I the victim or the crime

And so I wrestle with the angel
To see who'll reap the seeds I sow
Am I the driver or the driven
Will I be damned to be forgiven
Is there anybody here but me who needs to know

What it is to face this fever
As the full moon pales and climbs
Am I living truth or rank deceiver
Am I the victim or the crime

[stepnw1f]

90. Yup... more political stupidity

I'm sure the right wing is happy.... but hey. Don't point that out... watchout. We must be honest and show everyone that we too can criticize and gossip about our own. Great cover for a Freeper too. They can pretend to be a Dem honestly criticizing one of their own, even before they have FACTS!

[alfredo]

91. He will be holding a press conference at 3PM

If it is true he was taking Ambien, then his behavior is consistent with other reports of people sleep walking, driving, cooking and eating without knowing they are doing it.

[dogday]

95. He was prescribed it by the

Capitol Hill Physician... Good enough for me....

[alfredo]

100. He can now become a crusader against that dangerous drug.

[dogday]

104. FDA approves this nasty drug, yet

will not give pot the medical rating it needs to be legal... They make me sick literally......

[alfredo]

130. If he did black out, and considering his history, he did the

right thing.

We are too Puritanical to approve anything that gives such pleasure.

[never cry wolf]

115. It doesn't matter, a DUI is a DUI, alcohol or not.

I support him, I think way too much is being made out of this but what he did was either willingly wrong or stupid, unless he could get a medical opinion that the combination of drugs created a temporary insanity or there are numerous documented cases of odd behavior withy this drug combination. If he got behind the wheel under the influence of anything, even an over the counter cold medicine, he is subject to a DUI.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1107970&mesg_id=1110742

Even if you have not touched alcohol for 20 years, if you are driving while impaired from any drug you are eligible for a DUI.

If the officer feels you are impaired while driving, you can be charged with driving under the influence, even if it's an over the counter cold medicine.

I had a DUI 20 years ago and learned this in my classes, my lawyer confirmed it. At least in Illinois that is the case.

He was obviously impaired, alcohol or not. So even if he took a sobriety test or blew 0.00 for his BAC he could have been charged.
here is a clip on the DC DUI/DWI laws:

Washington D.C. DUI / DWI law makes it illegal to drive when under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or with a blood alcohol content (BAC) of .08% or greater.

In the District of Columbia, DUI / DWI (or drunk driving) cases can be proved in one of two ways. Washington D.C. DUI can be demonstrated through the driving pattern, physical appearance of the driver, field sobriety test performance, and chemical test results. Each of these may be circumstantial evidence of mental or physical impairment, and consistent therefore with DUI.

http://www.1800duilaws.com/states/dc.asp

[dogday]

120. You talk like he made a conscience decision

to get in his car... He was at home sleeping, next thing he knows he is at capitol hill..

[Weaksauce]

122. Like magic? I don't buy that.

If he needed help to stop sleep walking why would he be checking into rehab?

[dogday]

125. You should , NY times has an article about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1108329&mesg_id=1108329

[never cry wolf]

127. Actually, that doesn't really matter in the eyes of the law either

It could be a defense as I noted in my initial paragraph, but he was definitely driving under the influence of something.

I support him, I think way too much is being made out of this but what he did was either willingly wrong or stupid, unless he could get a medical opinion that the combination of drugs created a temporary insanity or there are numerous documented cases of odd behavior with this drug combination. If he got behind the wheel under the influence of anything, even an over the counter cold medicine, he is subject to a DUI.

[Ksec]

94. He IS innocent

until he is proven otherwise.

Love it or leave it.

[Weaksauce]

109. I support all impaired drivers!!

Remember, not only drunk politicians need our support! Also pols doped up on Rx need our support. Send your donations to big pharm and jack daniels inc.

[dogday]

110. Wonder why Porter Goss just resigned??????

Dumped on a friday is what they said on MSNBC.... Bad news for the President says MSNBC... This car bumping story was just a fluff and dry for the big one??? Why did Porter Goss resign??? Some say it could be the prostitutes scandal that is soon to be blowing in the wind.....

[Recursion]

111. Is he really in trouble?

I think a DUI might just cement his rep as a Kennedy, no?

[incapsulated]

117. YES INCAPSULATED STILL SUPPORTS KENNEDY!!

Like I said, this is NOTHING, it is still NOTHING and he is one hundred times the man that any of the pukes are for admitting he has a problem.

I never said he was innocent, I said to support him until we know otherwise.

PORTER GROSS IS THE STORY TO BE TALKING ABOUT!

[dogday]

124. I support him more now!!!!

It takes big man to stand up and take accountability for the accident, for his addiction and to seek treatment.. To do all of this in front of the nation, man that must be so hard.....

[aikoaiko]

123. I support him because he's ready to accept his consequences and not whinin

nt

[Dorian Gray]

128. Well,

I hope that he gets better and gets the treatment that he needs. I'm also glad that he wasn't tragically killed, like so many others in his family have been throughout the years.

I don't like how the situation went down, but I'm happy that nobody was harmed and that he will get the drug treatment that he needs.

[Raksha]

133. He DOESN'T REMEMBER what happened, and that scares him.

From reading the posts on DU last night, apparently this is a side effect of Ambien. Maybe not a common one, but it still happens and it's extremely dangerous when it does. Fortunately, Patrick Kennedy didn't hurt himself or anyone else. He only totalled his car, which is bad enough but it could have been MUCH worse. And he sees the incident as a wake-up call to do something about his problems and do it NOW.

Why would I not support him? He didn't lie about anything, he admitted he has a problem AND he didn't try to blame anyone else, which is refreshing in itself.

[Chico Man]

150. He's my rep, and that scares me

I want my rep to be able to remember things.

[enough already]

134. I support him 100%

I don't care what he did.

[Daphne08]

136. Yes, I also support him.

[bejammin075]

137. If he was driving with sleeping pills, = D.U.I.

If that was the case, that he was on Ambien sleeping medication, he hsouldn't have been driving. Luckily no one got hurt. I don't care if he's Repub or Dem. I'm not going to automatically defend him. If it comes out he was on drugs that made it unsafe to drive, we have egg on our face and look stupid.

There are things we can learn from the Repubs. Automatically defending every Dem before all the facts are out is not one of them. As an example of something we CAN learn from the Repubs, we should attack their strengths, like the perceived 'strength' in national security.

[Spinoza]

139. If this is true:

"Preferential Treatment. I have news for the tender souls on DU. Each and every congressperson is given kid glove treatment that would make you fume if you knew about it in detail. They are VIPs, especially on the Hill. It's even worse with senators. That goes for Democrats and Republicans. Welcome to the real world."

(And I have no real doubts that it is true) how can anyone who thinks of themselves as a "progressive" stand this situation without screaming in protest? Double standards for fucking congresspeople vs everyone else and yet we don't even give a shit? Who made congresspeople, democrats or republicans, fucking royalty? As a progressive this really burns me up.

[hexola]

140. Right on! (nt)

[incapsulated]

141. In this case...

I simply do not care. What goes on every day, in this instance, only came to public light because this was a Kennedy and yes, because he was a DEMOCRAT.

Did we have such wringing of hands over "preferential treatment" for Cheney?

Calls for an investigation of the police?

People are dying. Our country is under threat from a bunch of criminals occupying the White House. Kennedy getting a pass for his late night fender bender on pills is the very least of my concerns.

[Chico Man]

142. Just like we ignored the Rush doctor shopping story here at DU

Rush isn't even a public figure. Rush was the VERY least of my concerns.

[incapsulated]

143. Uh.... Rush is the enemy

Any contribution to smearing Limpballs is a fine distraction if people want to.

[Chico Man]

145. As I'm sure smearing Kennedy is for the other side

You could replace Patrick Kennedy for Rush Limbaugh and this thread is suddenly right off of Free Republic.

[incapsulated]

146. No. Not at all.

Because the people doing the "smearing" of Kennedy and other Dems, while they give the republicans a pass, are the national media. My message is: Don't help them.

[Chico Man]

148. Support Kennedy or hold the media accountable?

What are you trying to say? I'll hold the media accountable any day of the week. I won't blindly support any politician, even one like Patrick Kennedy (who just so happens to by my rep). It's not the media's fault he was driving under the influence.

[Spinoza]

144. If they get treated like royalty,

like a higher caste of people vs us peons, who gives a shit if they are democrats or republicans. Fuck em both and the horses they rode in on. Fucking aristocrats.

[Dr Fate]

149. I agree- the media never finished investigating the Cheney/gun incident.

Finish that one 1st, then move on. Lets do this by rank & importance.

[yellowdogmi]

151. Do we still have a presumption of innocence in this country?

?