Ray McGovern Admitted the US Government has "Brainwashed" the US populace

[populistdriven]

Talking to Amy Goodman on Democracy Now, The 27 year long CIA veteran Ray McGovern compares the raucous and aggressive behavior of people in the audience in defending Rumsfeld and interrupting the questioners to the brainwashed WWII Germans.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/05/1432203

"Well Amy, just listening to this little clip here I find it scary. These were ostensibly educated normal people and their reaction was very much like the one that Goebels stirred up. You could see it was a very unfriendly audience anyone who posed any kind of question to the defense secretary. So listening to it i'm sort of scared because if this is indicative of the brainwashing that has taken place it's going to be a long, long struggle to 'speak truth to power'..."

Am I the only one that finds this shocking?

Isn't this an impeachable offense if it can be proven? So is this what the White House Iraq Group was focused on?

This seems like the tip of a very giant iceberg.

It is one thing to say the the media was controlled or manipulated, it is quite another to state that the methods used were in the precisely chosen words of a CIA veteran, "Brainwashing"

Perhaps he was referring to the mass populace that has been indoctrinated by Bush's "News-Propaganda".

[fooj]

1. It's a frightening time.

It truly is.

[populistdriven]

53. see post #51

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1115687#1117686

[Raine]

2. Not surprising

because of course those who go to something like that wanted to hear Rummy the Dummy, they come cause they like what he has to say. People who disagree are more apt to stay away.

[demosincebirth]

3. And Cheney 's in Russia preaching democracy to Putin.

What hypocrisy.

[marmar]

6. "What hypocrisy."

This administration re-wrote the book.

[Disturbed]

8. Rumsfailed said that he is not in the Intelligence Biz.

WTF was the Office of Special Plans then?

[populistdriven]

9. Complete write up on all the Intelligence Agencies the DOD oversees

http://www.fas.org/irp/commission/budget.htm

[demosincebirth]

16. Its actually true. No intelligence radiates from any ot them.

[Monk06]

18. Worse. Cheney in KAZAKHSTAN preaching democracy to Russia?????? n/t

If he tried it in Russia Putin would fart in his
general direction.

[AuntiBush]

20. A Ton of Nerve!

Spreading all that BS democracy we've lost here. Hypocrisy & the worse type of irony ever!

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. I've always associated the "Kool-Aid drinker" label to people

I thought were brain-washed.

[populistdriven]

7. But this is not "just an expression" think of how precise Ray's speech is

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. I don't disagree that brain-washing has taken place.

I assume he was saying that there were people in the audience who were supporting Rumsfeld, despite the evidence that indicate he was lying?

I think what has happened is that we have a group of people in this country who believe that it's okay for our side to do heinous things because they believe the other side is doing worse things. I've talked to a severe right-wing relative who is a millionaire, so the guy is smart, and I listened very carefully to what he was saying. In their own minds, they believe that anything that antagonizes the Muslim world is just. The Muslims are now the bad guys. However, they KNOW that the rest of America won't agree with their conviction to annihilate the Muslim world, so they disguise their intentions. First, they claim that Muslims want to take over the world, so we need to beat them to it. If that isn't credible enough to win you over, they'll say that Muslims want to kill every American and take over the world. If that still doesn't get your gander, they claim that Muslims want to kill every Christian and take over the world. If that still doesn't get your attention, they dismiss you as a liberal and unpatriotic and your opinion is irrelevant to them.

But, you need to get to the base level. Sand it down to the raw wood. These people believe that Rumsfeld can do whatever he wants to do because his cause is just. Whether it's killing Muslims to protect us from terrorism, or really getting control of oil fields for America, he's a hero to them.

I suppose we could call it brainwashing, but maybe it's really just collectively supported ignorance. The irony is that the media moguls could resolve this easily by educating the population, but they won't. Are they sell-outs? Being manipulated by their greed? Or are they part of the group that believes that Muslims are bad?

[northamericancitizen]

31. It's getting muddier everyday. Whatever you call it.

Thanks for DU and other liberal places on the Net.

[Joanne98]

63. It's a "red scare" re-run. Are they building bunkers in their yards..

YET? they need to be told straight to their faces that THEY are the enemy. It's the only thing that works.

[populistdriven]

5. If this had come anyone other than ex-CIA I would dismiss it

as "just an expression"

Has Ray been credible on everything else he has said? He sounds like an extremely precise person.

[screembloodymurder]

76. There's no question about it

anyone that listens to FOX is being brainwashed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. There's no such thing as brainwashing

n/t

[populistdriven]

13. So then you doubt Ray's credibility for choosing those words?

here is the Wiki entry for brainwashing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

and the Wiki entry for Propaganda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

and the Wiki entry for News-Propaganda (this is very applicable to *) it even mentions Gannon/Guckert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_propaganda

[DELUSIONAL]

24. This is an excellent resource list

My feeling is that the more we understand how psychological manipulation occurs -- the easier it is to recognize the patterns and resist the emotional triggers.

One emotional trigger among dozens used by the bush crime family:

Support the Troops -- (support bush because he is the "commander and chief").

And yes brainwashing is real -- it is known by several names. Religion is one example of brainwashing.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. That's not brainwashing

It's articulation, ideology, or rhetoric in a classical sense.

[populistdriven]

62. it is if you are the only person saying it, if 10 people of authority

say it and then it gets broadcast 20 times per day on 1000 TV stations for 8 weeks it is something much more powerful and influential than rhetoric. Even worse is covert news propaganda packaged as credible news without transparency as to source and motivation when this comes from supposed news people who are supposedly attempting to be objective.

This technique of mass propaganda was perfected by Joseph Goebbels and has been extensively used by Bush. The Goebbels technique, also known as argumentum ad nauseam, is the name given to a policy of repeating a point until it is taken to be the truth.

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it. This is exactly what Bush does.

The result are people who have been so programmed that they can see proof of a lie in front of their face and deny it exists. Call it cognitive dissonance, call it brainwashing, call it political programming. The fact is this is was the US government has been doing.

Also see my last post below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1115687&mesg_id=1119457

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. I saw your post below

It is not more powerful and influential than rhetoric. It is rhetoric strictly speaking, technological amplification notwithstanding.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. Er, your wikipedia link agrees with me

at least to some extent. Did you even read it?

[populistdriven]

52. see post #51

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1115687#1117686

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. That's not brainwashing

It's just plain, old-fashioned rhetoric - the same described in such detail by the Greeks and Romans, the same that dominated the European tradition as part of the trivium for 1,000 years.

You also seem to have a much lower opinion of people than is warranted, although I guess writing off populatioons as 'sheep" can at the very least help you feel superior...

[bananas]

30. Do you really believe that?

Every now and then I meet someone who doesn't believe in brainwashing, hypnosis, or the power of suggestion. It goes against their philosophy.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Yes, I really believe that

I believe in rhetoric.

Brainwashing is a weak and irresponsible version of that. Moreover, even in the behavioral sciences the evidence of so-called brainwashing is weak and inconclusive. I'll go further than that: there is no brainwashing, and never has been.

[Swamp Rat]

43. You were brainwashed to believe that.

:D

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. LOL

It was much better than Cats...

;-)

[populistdriven]

48. !!!!

:D oh shit I, can't stop laughing now! :D

[alcibiades_mystery]

57. They blinded me with science....

:rofl:

;-)

[KAT119]

33. McGovern has always been laser- precise-upper level CIA

[populistdriven]

36. Well then, it's out in the open for the mainstream media to ignore

[rucky]

49. What about the Moonies?

I thought they perfected it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. They develop effective rhetorical techniques

We would spend our time better in understanding those than in consigning it to the pseudoscience of "brainwashing," although the latter is invariably sexier...for paranoids, anyway.

[Clark2008]

58. There is if you believe there is.

That's the whole point.

I'd like to think that most people on the board, including me and my family, are too intelligent, critical thinking and open-minded to succumb to brainwashing techniques and, therefore, there wouldn't be any such thing as "brainwashing."

But, after all people know about this administration - after all the lies - and STILL they have the support of about 32 percent of the population, you have to wonder if there IS brainwashing in the form of constant media adulation, repeated rhetoric and the inability of some in the American public to think for themselves.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. Well

That's a silly fucking point.

We are inundated by rhetoric all the time - every society has been, and nobody gets to think outside social categories. By that definition, everyone is "brainwashed."

[Clark2008]

74. Yes - but some people are more immune to the rhetoric

than others - that was my point.

I think most people on this board are - but those 32 percent - the don't have the immunity of, well, the Bubble Boy to that sort of rhetoric.

[K-W]

61. Just because the term isnt scientifically precise

doesnt mean it is useless. There is no such thing as literally wiping someones brain out or programming a person like a computer, but there certainly are people who so well indoctrinated and controlled that they seem as if they had been literally brainwashed.

Certainly terms like 'mind control' and 'brainwashed' bring to mind cartoonish images, but there most certainly are systematic attempts to control people within various organizations and in our society as a whole.

[alcibiades_mystery]

68. Of course there are

Nobody would dispute that.

[Joanne98]

64. Remember Jim Jones? 900 people drank the koolaid....

What to you call that?

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. Billions of people limit their life potential around the world

based on the same principle. I call it conversion and religious rhetoric.

[Joanne98]

69. Same thing.

[alcibiades_mystery]

71. Not really

[omega minimo]

11. "Shocking"? You're kidding, right?

He said "the brainwashing that has taken place....." You seem to have read into something else.

[populistdriven]

12. This was a CIA analyst that used those words, not a civilian

think of the difference.

Ray also comes across as a very precise speaker who chooses his words very carefully.

[omega minimo]

28. Bullshit. "Brainwashing" happens out in the open, 24/7

That audience was packed with fratboy Dittoheads. Is Rush Limbaugh "brainwashing"?

[leftchick]

14. and they were going to fucking drag him away!!!!

damn straight it is scary!!!!

:scared:

[populistdriven]

15. Ray needs to be questioned about this on his next interview

[AuntiBush]

19. Ray McGovern: Another American Hero

Caught the clip of him standing-up asking Rummy about those lies. As a guard went to grab him and I'm thinking this is Ray McGovern this guy is grabbing, he spoke-out saying, "This is still America, Right!?!"

Shew... he's right. We've been "conditioned," "brainwashed."

No, Mr. McGovern. You're not the only one finding this shocking. Everyone I bang into on all levels from friends, family, neighbors to people you just meet in passing bring-it all up to me, not the other way around. People of all walks of life, many you'd never figure if judging by what they drive, how they're dressed, or if they live in total red republican counties... all say the same thing: What has happened to our country? We've lost our freedoms and they're all sickened, scared, mad and shocked.

[Kire]

29. Don't forget Harry Taylor

And Cindy Sheehan. And Stephen Colbert.

I can't think of any other "American Heroes" like Mr. McGovern right now, which is sad. Can you?

[davekriss]

35. Amen! (eom)

[slaveplanet]

41. Don't leave out Cynthia McKinney

She is one of the few to dress down the system lords and get it into congressional record.

you could see the venom ooze, having to endure that from an uppity outsider.

[davekriss]

34. I caught it too

I am very proud of McGovern. There stands a true patriot speaking truth to power! It was a scary moment as, think about it, here he was questioning Darth Rumsfeld as to whether or not he was/is a traitor to the United States of America. Did you catch the evil beam emanating from Rummy's eyes?

Ray was referring to the audience when he said "brainwashed". The boos and hoots and attempts physically to quiet the protestors as if there was no possibility that Rumsfeld lied and that therefore it was improper and disrespectful and not permissible to even challenge Rummy is what McGovern found freightening. Good Germans, all, quite capable of marching this generation's "jews" into new showers. Very disquieting.

We all remember Rumsfeld's boast. To be clear:

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat.
- Donald Rumsfeld, ABC interview, March 30, 2003

Yet when McGovern challenged Rumsfeld on that statement Rummy of course denied ever saying anything like it (as if we don't have the video!). The scary part is that the audience tried to surpress the question.

We are in boatloads of trouble as a nation -- probably no greater crisis since the Civil War.

[DELUSIONAL]

21. I've been saying for years that brain washing is happening

and yes the way the audience responded to the truth -- is an indication of the degree of brainwashing.

I don't know if one person is involved in guiding the brainwashing -- or perhaps a black-ops type think tank. But I have detected all the elements of brainwashing -- and it started with the way people were worked up to respond to Clinton's blow job --as if he had done the worst thing possible -- even worse than treason.

Rush limpballs in part of brainwashing -- the way all of these idiots talk "on point" tells me that someone is sending out the talking points.

In the early 90s there was an organized effort to brainwash the political faithful -- not unlike the core-nazis believers of the Hitler era. Liberals were the target -- of that hate campaign.

We've just passed the anniversary of the Kent State murders by the State/Federal Government. During the early 70s the "silent majority" was encouraged to hate college students.

There is also the element of cult worship -- I expect that Rummy has his cult followers -- or they are bushie cult members who obey their leader who supports Rummy.

It is frightening to see and hear what is happening. I never though I'd live to see another nation whipped up into war fever -- and yet people keep falling for very simple brain washing techniques. There is extensive of research material on cult behavior, cult personality -- mass sociology, mass manipulation. Someone or a group have taken the research and seem to be using it sort of like a cook book.

ALL the lies used to whip up the masses before the Iraqi invasion are being used again -- and people are responding to emotional trigger words. Even some people posting on DU keep posting the pre war propaganda. The emotional jargon consists of: Iran is bad -- Iran must be brought under control -- even their neighbors fear Iran -- Israel has joined in. "Concern" about Iran . . .

[populistdriven]

22. I remember that - people HATED college students but I had no idea why

[many a good man]

23. Psy Ops against the American people

Mind Games
Columbia Journalism Review
By Daniel Schulman
May/June 2006

...
Throughout the summer of 2003, Gardiner documented incidents that he saw as information-warfare campaigns directed both at targeted foreign populations and the American public. By the fall, he had collected his analysis into a lengthy treatise, called “Truth from These Podia,” which concluded that “the war was handled like a political campaign,” in which the emphasis was not on the truth but on the message.

As his paper circulated among government and military officials that fall, Gardiner says he received a call at home one night from a spokesman for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He told Gardiner that his conclusions were on target. “But I want you to know,” the spokesman added, “that it was civilians who did this.”
...

[RagAss]

25. At least I know they can't brainwash me......

I never believed these fuckers from day one.....

[RagAss]

26. At least I know they can't brainwash me......

I never believed these fuckers from day one.....

[Sinti]

27. It's called Mindwar

From Psyop to Mindwar: The Psychology of Victory

Some Army stuff cooked up after Vietnam

Link:
http://oneheartbooks.com/mindwar.pdf

[LeahD]

40. Thanks for the link. Frightening.

[Joanne98]

67. Oh! Michael Aquino wrote that? He was running a child molesting

ring. "The New Satanists" by Linda Blood. She the one who founded the Cult Awareness Network. She lost it to the in a law suit filed against her.

History

Michael Aquino joined the Church of Satan in 1969, while he was in the US Army as a psychological operations specialist. Aquino became a priest in the Church in 1970, and was promoted to the level of Magister IV°, the highest ranking below High Priest (held by C of S founder Anton LaVey). In 1975, LaVey made a decision to sell priesthoods in the Church of Satan for cash, a move that alienated many existing members and officials. As a direct result of LaVey's announcement, Aquino and 28 fellow Church of Satan members left the group and founded their own church, the Temple of Set 2 . Aquino lists the number of members at closer to 100. He wrote The Book of Coming Forth By Night, supposedly with help from Set himself, declaring the need for a religion fulfilling individual potential through the Black Arts.

Aquino left the Church of Satan because of personal differences with LaVey as well as theological differences 3 . Aquino felt that LaVey was using the Church for his own personal gain - LaVey often made use of sensationalism to promote the Church. The two also differed in a deeper philosophical sense - LaVey felt that Satan was merely a symbol of strength and defiance, while Aquino belived in the literal manifestation of the god Satan (or the ancient Egyptian god Set, from which the Christian Satan is derived). The Temple of Set never gained the notorioty of the Church of Satan, largely because it was a more secretive organization from the start. The newly founded group became a non-profit church in 1975 and became exempt from federal and state taxes the same year.

Due to the tendency of the Temple of Set to avoid publicity, not much is known about their subsequent history. One major change has happened in the hierarchy of the Temple of Set in recent years. Michael Aquino stepped down as the High Priest in 1996, and has been succeeded by Don Webb. While the possibility of a philosophical change has been hinted at 4 , it is not clear what any such changes would be. Due to the inclination of the Temple of Set toward individuality as opposed to unity under leadership, it seems unlikely that a change of Head Priest would considerably alter the group's methodology.

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/satanism/tempset.html

[TahitiNut]

32. (Hmmm..) So that's what happened. So many of them shrank!!

:silly: :dunce:

[Kurovski]

42. The sound of one particular woman flatly bellowing "Get outta here"

still sticks with me. She sounded Like an angry drunken bar patron.

While some are brainwashed, others have merely found a save haven for their hate.

[shadowknows69]

44. fun things can be done with light pulses

and cleverly hidden subliminal things they could put in our tv news and shows. I don't discount anything. If a former CIA Vet believes in brainwashing so do I :tinfoilhat:

[Joanne98]

70. It was just reading that in the Mindwar paper. low frequency waves

The author suggested using them during media broadcasts.

[malaise]

45. I commented on their fascist behaviour

in the face of facts. It was truly frightening.

[populistdriven]

54. great minds think alike

Goebbels


Rumsfeld

[frustrated_lefty]

46. See CounterPunch for more from V.I.P.S.

Personally, I suspect he was using the phrase "brainwashing" in a very loose sense, referring instead to the effects of blowback and propaganda. The Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity have been saying good stuff for roughly the last 3 years. This is just the first time they've had a shot at it in a very public forum. To the best of my knowledge, every communication they've made to the government has been published as they made it at www.counterpunch.org.

I think you're making too much out of the use of a single word which dilutes and detracts from their established position.

Just my thoughts.

[Gman]

50. Nothing we didn't already know

and talked about here.

[populistdriven]

51. "Goebbels" perfected of the Big Lie technique of mass propaganda

So here it is folks, a 27 year CIA veteran admits that the US Government is using "Big Lie" propaganda techniques (ie repeating your same talking points over and over to "brainwash" the mass populace) to create an atmosphere makes it possible to complete the goals of the Neocons / PNAC. We all know the talking points propaganda and how they repeat the same phrases over and over.

This propaganda is what they used to defeat Kerry and it will be used for the mid-term elections. Based on the lessons of Nazi Germany, the only way to fight this is through open ridicule.

The problem is, we have seen that they control the press. They silenced the ridicules by Colbert and McGovern. Before they elections they will broadcast the repetitive "Big Lie" talking points over and over and the "brainwashed" sheep will follow.

SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER!

From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels

Goebbels was known for his zealous and energetic oratory, virulent antisemitism and perfection of the so-called Big Lie technique of mass propaganda...

Goebbels began to regulate all forms of artistic expression, banishing Jewish writers, journalists and artists from Germany's cultural life. He took control of the news media, making sure that it presented Germany's domestic and foreign policy aims in terms of Nazi ideology. He played probably the most important role in creating an atmosphere in Germany that made it possible for the Nazis to commit terrible atrocities against Jews, homosexuals and other minorities. The Goebbels technique, also known as argumentum ad nauseam, is the name given to a policy of repeating a point until it is taken to be the truth (see Big Lie).

For example, when Goebbels took ownership of the Der Angriff (The Assault) newspaper, he attacked Berlin Police President Bernhard Weiss, calling him "Isidor" Weiss. To German ears, Isidor at the time was a name with strong Jewish connotations. Eventually the public believed Isidor was Weiss' real given name and he became a figure of ridicule. Goebbels also pioneered the use of broadcasting in mass propaganda, promoting the distribution of inexpensive single frequency radio receivers (the so-called Volksempfänger (People's radio)) to the German public which ensured that millions of people heard the output of the Reich's propaganda ministry while being unable to receive news and other broadcasts from outside Germany. Meanwhile his ministry busily broadcast Nazi propaganda around the world by shortwave radio. Newsreels, movies and books were impossible to publish without prior approval and censorship by Goebbels' ministry. He is credited by most historians with developing many techniques of modern propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.

"The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous." - Joseph Goebbels, 12 January 1941, Die Zeit ohne Beispiel

[populistdriven]

60. Well I just spoke with a military officer about this

His focus is the war on terror and has been for years.

He confirmed that everything Ray said is true. He didn't deny a single bit of it.

For various reasons he refuses to even let his family watch TV more than once per week but he is aware of the "talking points" and the techniques of "mass propaganda". He said that Ray calling it brainwashing was a matter of semantics.

Interestingly this was a book sitting on his coffee table

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1574885537.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[JohnyCanuck]

72. Brainwashing America

From Brainwashing America by Dr. Norman Livergood, a former dept. head at the US Army War College:

In an earlier article, I reviewed the varied aspects of personality profiling and simulation. While serving as Head of the Artificial Intelligence Department at the U.S. Army War College, 1993-1995, I conducted studies on profiling, psychological programming, and brainwashing. I explored and developed personality simulation systems, an advanced technology used in military war games, FBI profiling, political campaigning, and advertising. Part of my discovery was that:

* unenlightened human minds are combinations of infantile beliefs and emotional patterns

* these patterns can be simulated in profiling systems

* these profiling systems can be used to program and control people

Personality simulation systems are being used to create political campaigns that apply voter profiles to control their voting behavior. TV commercials and programs use personality simulation to profile viewers to control their purchasing and viewing behaviors. And sophisticated propaganda and brainwashing techniques are being used by the Bush junta to keep American citizens under control.

http://www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm

[many a good man]

73. Psy Ops is a legitimate technique to use against enemies

in times of war. It should NOT be used against the American people. Nothing could be more UNCONSTITUTIONAL than that!

DOD perfects these techniques for use in warfare but civilian hacks steal it and order them to use it against the people for political purposes. Anyone participating in this crime, whether military, civilian, or in the press, should be tried for treason!

[populistdriven]

77. Exactly!!! Nobody here thinks that these tactics should be used in US

Using psyops or mass propaganda techniques against Americans is waging war against Americans and is therefore treason.

[Initech]

75. Bill Hicks said it best:

"I can sum up American politics in a nutshell: I like what the puppet on the left says. The puppet on the right is more to my liking. Hey, there's one guy holding up both puppets! Shut up! Go back to bed, America, your government is in control. Here, watch American Gladiators and get fat and stupid."

[upi402]

78. i felt the cia was pissed at neocons long ago

so many conservatives and company hands have come out that it would seem to be newsworthy.

but not to the tv news traitors.

[nolabels]

79. Maybe a percentage but not all

Like does anybody even question what this guy has to say?

Firstly and foremost do you understand his position. What we have here is a massive failure at all levels of government including Ray's. This shit has been going on for three, four, five or even more decades so just now that it is starting to come to a head for various reasons should be no reason to get excited even if you're Chicken Little. We know much now but will know even more later, you can run but you no longer can hide