The "armchair doctors" here on DU

[Texasgal]

Are really freaking me out.

I am an RN.

That said... Ambien is a WONDERFUL drug that helps people that are sleep deprived.

Sleep deprivation is a MAJOR problme here in the US.

People that are prescribed ambien and have side effects should contact their doctor, not some ARMCHAIR internet person who says not to take it.

I mean...c'mon...folks.. what do YOU really know about ambien? You may know about YOUR reactions, but MANY,MANY people survive because of it. TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR!!!

I am putting on my flame retardent suit now...FLAME AWAY.

[babylonsister]

1. Good for you, Texasgal!

:thumbsup: I know nothing about Ambien other than what I've read; knowledge is a powerful thing, and thanks for sharing the reality.

[cantstandbush]

50. Here is some first hand knowledge.

Brother-in-law was prescribed Ambien...went into coma and never came out for over a year. Finally died in hospital.

[pnwmom]

60. Wow. That's heartbreaking. Did the reaction get reported to the FDA?

I hope so.

[Frank Cannon]

99. Oh, but TexasGal says it's a wonderful drug

And she's a nurse, doncha know!

Ambien may work well for the vast majority of people that take it. But the only statistic you really need to know is that if YOU are one who wakes up in your underwear barreling down the turnpike at 75 miles an hour, or the one who wakes up naked taking a piss in front of your New York brownstone, or the one who just doesn't wake up, YOU are 100% fucked.

No one should get their medical advice from DU. See a physician for that. But in the meantime, it's perfectly all right to be skeptical about a drug that apparently has some serious side effects associated with it.

[knitter4democracy]

105. She did say that there are side effects.

Come on, she was just saying that it doesn't make sense to get your medical advice from DU. If you're taking Ambien, and it's working well for you, then fine. If you're having side effects at all, then call your doctor asap.

Any and all drugs, even "natural" ones (how natural is it to grind them up and put them in capsules?), can have horrible side effects for some. Every person reacts slightly differently to anything introduced into his or her system, and some of us react very violently and badly. I can't take pain meds, for example--all I get are side effects and absolutely no pain relief. I can't take hormonal meds, either--same thing. It's just how my body works, and I make sure my doctors know that.

[Bluerthanblue]

122. Indeed what happened to your

relative is a terrible tragedy.
However, EVERYTHING any human being ingests, breathes, or comes into contact with has the potential to cause death- Including some drugs which have saved millions of lives- (penicillin based antibiotics) and things as simple as a bee-sting, which CAN kill with one single sting- or bring relief from arthritis to other with MULTIPLE stings.

We want everything to be perfect, and predictable- and life just isn't that way.

How many people has alcohol killed, directly, indirectly, quickly, or over a course of years??-
Balance the risk- with the potential benefits, and remember doctors and health professionals are every single bit as human, and fallible as you or I.

Did you know you can die from drinking too much water? And you don't have to have any 'sensitivities' to it- It can throw off your electrolyte balance with fatal results.

No one is going to get out of this world alive-


blu

[Maine-ah]

130. I'm with you guys

I almost died from penicillin.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

144. I'm an RN and I am predicting that Ambien will be pulled from the market

in the not so distant future.

When medication affects the Reticular Activating System in the brain, as well as alters chemical re-uptake, all to produce somnolence, then things get a little dicey.

Just saying. MKJ

[knitter4democracy]

106. I'm so very sorry.

How awful. :( {{{{{{cantstandbush}}}}}}

It's a powerful drug, and not everyone's system can handle it well. I'm so sorry that happened. :(

[converted_democrat]

131. I have first hand knowledge too, though it's not as bad as yours..

I woke up on my back porch, I had been sleeping on my picnic table.. I had mosquito bites all over me, and I was totally disoriented. It scared the crap out of me.. The first 4 times I took it I had no problem, the fifth night some how I ended up on the picnic table.. I guess I'm lucky I ended up on my own back porch, instead of someplace worse.. I had been given a trial pack from my Doc, and I just flushed the rest.. When I told my Doc he said he had 3 others besides myself that had awoken in precarious positions.. He said he couldn't just write it off as a fluke anymore..

I am so sorry for your loss.. I really think the FDA should reexamine the drug..

[graywarrior]

2. I use valerian root.

2 of them knock me out for 8 hours. I wake up with no side affects. I know who I am, what I'm doing, where I going.

I hate drugs.

[Raine]

23. I use Melatonin

works great for me (Valerin also good). I take one and it makes me drowsy, when I wake up I have no doped up after effects. I hate drugs too and in particular prescription drugs. the American people are over-prescribed and over-medicated. :-(

[Arkansas Granny]

24. Valerian root works for me too. Since it is also a mild muscle

relaxer, I don't wake up with a stiff neck when I take it. Prescription muscle relaxers really make me feel bad. I don't like to take them.

[OnionPatch]

148. Same for me

I think it's great. My husband was having problems sleeping, he tried some other stuff that didn't help much or had side effects but then he tried valerian and now he takes it instead. He weighs 220, and one pill puts him right to sleep. The only thing is the smell....argh. Swallow fast. :)

[lavenderdiva]

56. do these really work, graywarrior?

I have been having trouble sleeping for the longest time. I've tried an over-the-counter gel-type capsule that is supposed to help you sleep, but even after 3 of them, I'm not sleepy. Weird thing though, is that the next day, I am very, very groggy all day.

I need something to help me, and would rather go the 'natural' route. Does Valerian Root make you feel sluggish or groggy the next day? Do they make you very drowsy at night, so you can doze off?

Thanks for the info- :hi:

[graywarrior]

100. No drowziness of tiredness after I take Valerian.

There is a product you can buy that is made of valerian and other herbs for about $7. Comes in a blue box. Damned if I can think of it. I use that when I overly stressed. But mostly I stick to valerian. 2 capsules knock me out. For some people, it may take a night or two to really take effect.

Another thin that's helped me is doing yoga a few hours before bed. Once I got in the ritual, I do it every other night for about 30 minutes, and I'm ready for bed by 10.

[lavenderdiva]

139. Thanks graywarrior!

Valerian Root is now on my shopping list!

[MH1]

101. Valerian helps but you should check your "sleep hygiene"

Okay I don't want to be accused of "armchair doctoring", but here is some info based on my personal experience. I use to have sleep problems but don't any more.

Your body needs a certain amount of sleep. I think if you have been on a stretch of poor sleeping, it is difficult to get back on track. When your sleep patterns are in a disrupted state, you may not be able to fall asleep even though you feel physically exhausted. Valerian and other herbs (like hops, chamomile, and others) can help with that. However you should not depend on any of these, and you should not need to use them for more than several days in a row. It is more important and helpful if you observe good sleep hygiene such as:

* sleep in a REALLY dark room, and start lowering the lighting at least a half hour to an hour before you go to bed. I have no idea how people sleep with night lights any brighter than those little glow things (if you wake up in the middle of the night you need hardly any light to see your way around - the glow thing should be enough). I have opaque blinds that shut out almost all light - it's great. I would say this one thing solved most of my sleeping issues.
* go to bed at the right time. This differs between people. My optimum time seems to be 10:30, which doesn't work well with my lifestyle so that is usually the root of the problem when I get off track. At least I know it now.
* get up at the same time every day, even if you didn't go to bed at the right time. I blow this one regularly but in my experience it is most important only when you are trying to get back on track. If you are sleeping well generally than sleeping in on Saturday morning isn't going to hurt. Again, this is only my experience.
* don't eat too soon before bed, although a small snack (around 100 cal) that has some protein, has recently been reported to be ok.

All that said, the best things to help me drop off when I either go to bed too late, or am very agitated, is some valerian, and/or chamomile tea. Celestial Seasonings "Sleepytime Extra" (or Plus or whatever) combines chamomile, valerian, and other herbs, is really pleasant, and really effective (for me).

On very rare occasions I use OTC sleep meds like diphenhydramine, but there is tolerance build-up with those (they lose their effectiveness if you use them regularly) and I don't trust what those might do to my body. Okay I don't trust valerian to use it all the time either - just because it's from nature doesn't mean it is good for you, and you have no way of knowing what bad things may have been added during processing. These things are only good for getting "back in the groove" and I hope people realize that none of them should be used routinely.

[lavenderdiva]

140. These are excellent insights, MH1!

Thanks for listing them, so I can now make changes. I need to be more disciplined about my sleep schedule, and I'm sure I would reap better rewards! I'm definitely getting Valerian Root this week-

[BeTheChange]

133. Mark down another HUGE fan of valerian as a sleep aide

I dont take prescription medication if I can help it after a lifetime of bad experiences with them.

However, because insomnia has always been such an issue for me..when it first came out I tried Ambien and it scared the shit out of me. My breathing became so slow my husband attempted to wake me up for several minutes before I finally came to.

I tried over the counter sleep aides and they made me feel horribly groggy in the morning, then lost their effect after awhile. So, I decided to try Valerian... it has saved my marriage, my job and my sanity. I swear by the GAIA brand.. the kava from GAIA also helps if Im wanting more of a wind down before I go to sleep. I use them both as needed. In the beginning I used the valerian nightly, now that Im more rested and able to deal better with stress instead of letting it build into insomnia, I take it 2 times a week max.

Be aware that you may have to try a few brands of valerian before one works for you. I can try other brands that supposedly have the same strength and dosage and not feel a thing.. so give it a couple tries before giving up if it doesnt work.

[lavenderdiva]

138. Thank you for sharing your insights...

I am going to try the Valerian this coming week... Here's hoping I can get some zzzzz's!

[Triana]

143. My formula has Valerian, hops (yes, hops), theanine...

...and passionflower. I also use melatonin sometimes.

[knitter4democracy]

3. Very good points.

Ambien works for many people just fine. It has side effects for a few (I can't take it, myself). We don't know enough about his history to know what's what, but we do know that Fenergan and Ambien don't mix well with heavy machinery.

[Texasgal]

7. EXACTLY!!!

Those TWO DO NOT MIX AT ALL!!

I just find it interesting that the few folks that have had problems with ambien are ready to denounce it. It works VERY well on alot of people!

[pnwmom]

61. It's not a question of denouncing Ambien at all. It's saying that Kennedy

could well be telling the truth, in his particular case. Because many of us know people who have had similarly untoward reactions to the drug.

[goclark]

116. I did ask my doctors about my cholesterol meds and I asked

my pharmacist as well.

Guess what?

Only one, after repeated visits, told me to get off of the MEDICINE!

One, who I truly love, still found it hard to believe that I was allergic to the MEDS.

I had a cramp in my foot that hurt so bad I wanted to go to the hospital one Sunday night!

My father was a doctor so I have a lot of faith in them.

I have NEVER met a doctor that did not want his/her patient to get well BUT,
the public needs to know that all drugs DO NOT WORK for all people.

They need to KNOW that just because the doctor says, "Your cramp in your foot could not have come from the MEDS," the doctor may be WRONG!

FOR SURE, you must carefully read the info sheet that comes with the MED at the pharmacy! Keep those and read them again the minute your body feels different.

A Tip: Someone told me that a health care provider said if the doctor tells you something that you just find hard to believe,say," Doctor, please let me see you write it in my chart that you can't believe that the medicine is making my body tingle all over, my foot cramp, my arms and entire body ache. Thank you so much. You can use my pen."

[shanti]

70. isn't first trying a natural/herbal/holistic remedy the safest route?

:shrug:

[knitter4democracy]

104. Depends on your meds.

Some herbal remedies interact badly or interfere with many popular meds. It's best to talk with a good doctor first (of course, I'm biased--I'm married to a good doctor who looks into this stuff and does what he can for his patients).

[Texasgal]

128. No...not nessecarily...

Some "natural" approaches can be worse than clinical.

[carolinalady]

4. agree- I personally believe he had been drinking with the drug.

[pnwmom]

62. That has been reported for other people too -- that under the influence

of Ambien they woke up and did any number of things without conscious awareness -- including drinking alcohol.

[DS1]

5. Yeah, whatever, PI ...

:boring:



:hi:

[Texasgal]

8. BIte me PIGGY!

:P

[Greybnk48]

6. Agree totally, no flaming here

I'm amazed at how people have bought into the "evil Ambien" propaganda. What we hear about is either false or stories of people not using it properly (taking this drug and trying to drive).

[Texasgal]

10. THANK YOU!!!

I see ALOT of this... it's RIDICULOUS!!!

Let's face it...ambien works well for some folks... NOT ALL!

[TomInTib]

9. I use Humboldt Blue and SauvignonBlanc...

works like a champ and no side affects except for a slight wobble later in the evening.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. But isn't it so much easier to read a few blogs

Maybe a story or two in Newsweek, and catch a segment on the nightly news than it is to slosh through all that icky organic chemsitry and biology and keep your GPA up and study for your MCATS and go to medical school and study your ass off and do a residency and take your boards and all that? I mean, why can't everybody be an expert? What are you, against democracy or something?

:sarcasm:

[knitter4democracy]

15. This post made my night.

:D Thanks!

Btw, Hubby's on call all weekend--four days and nights straight of pager and phone ringing every hour or more and him only home late at night to leave early in the am. *sigh* I hate call weekends . . .

[KittyWampus]

31. "Everybody can't be an expert"? Then why are drug co's advertising ambien

on tv to the average non-expert American?

Sorry, but opening post talks about sleep deprivation and neglects to discuss the OVER MEDICATION of Americans and also the mindfuck going on via advertising by drug companies.

There are natural remedies available for those who can't sleep. And as far as the "professional" medical community is concerned, DRUGS are the first choice.

Sorry, but the Medical Industrial Complex has made us distrust them...

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. Don't apologize to me

I could give a fuck less one way or the other.

[Texasgal]

40. I am sorry that you don't believe in

American healthcare,

I went to college for YEARS to learn what I know, while I believe that NOT EVERYTHING works... we are so much better off than we were.

I am sorry that you feel that way.

[knitter4democracy]

108. Well, that's easy: they make more money that way.

If they can convince people they need their pill, they make more money. Pharma spends twice to three times as much on marketing than they do on research--they wouldn't spend that money if it didn't pay for itself.

As for drugs, doctors offer them because most patients want them. During his entire internal medicine residency, my hubby offered every single heart and diabetes patient help with changing diet, upping exercise, and losing weight--or giving them the expensive pills. Not a single one took him up on the lifestyle changes--every single one chose the pills.

Since he's been in practice, he's had a small few ask for help with changing their lifestyles. The vast majority still want the pills, even though they're far more expensive and have bad side effects as a potential outcome. Some even mean that he has to have them come in every few months to do blood tests to check their liver and kidney functioning. They still want the pills.

It's not just that Pharma gets us to want the pills, it's that we don't want to make the sacrifices it takes to not choose the pills, too. It goes both ways. Of course, that's a huge generalization, as my mom has changed her lifestyle and gotten off most of her pills, and I can't take most pills and have had to chose lifestyle changes, and I'm sure there are many on DU who either can't take the pills or afford to take them, but it's still true of many, many patients.

[goclark]

117. Bravo!

[mikelewis]

12. Yeah, but where'd you get your knowledge from?...

A book? Experience?...

No, I'm going with my gut and my gut tells me, I gotta go to the bathroom and it also tells me not to trust Ambien. It's too sinister sounding, especially if you say it real sinister-like.

[Texasgal]

21. Where do I get MY EXPERIENCE from?

Being an RN who as seen MANY, MANY patients BENEFIT from the drug. That's where.

[KittyWampus]

34. Were any of those patients given the natural remedies as a 1st choice?

How many of those patients asked for Ambien by name cause they saw the commerical on tv?

How many of the doctors you've seen prescribe Ambien recieved free meals, junkets and what basically amount to bribes from Ambien's manufacturers?

[Texasgal]

37. Well...since I am NOT a doctor

I really cannot say...

But I do know that many of my patients do well with ambien, which kinda denotes the people against it.

I chart ALL DAY long with people who take ambien with little effects or none.

That's the ONLY experience I can give you.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

145. Do you work in a sleep study lab? It sounds as if wherever you work

Ambien is prescribed as a matter of course.

I have worked in several clinical settings since the introduction of Ambien.

I have definitely not talked all day to patients taking the medication.

My experience has been that patients are prescribed the medication with many caveats, and take it for short term use, while we (the clinical team) are trying to address the underlying physical, mental or emotional reason for the insomnia.

MKJ

[knitter4democracy]

109. ?????

What junkets? They've stopped those, and we never got any. As for free meals, they're for the whole staff at the office, and Hubby never has time to eat there anyway--he rounds in the hospital at lunchtime. He hates the drug reps and avoids them; if he runs into them, he likes asking them many embarrassing questions about studies and all and then walking away. ;)

My hubby prescribes Ambien, most often to patients in the hospital so they can sleep through the night and get better faster, and he hasn't had very many complain about side effects. He knows from my experience that it's too strong for some and often prescribes a lower dose (I took it once and took two days to recover from half a tablet--I just can't take drugs).

Usually, for a patient in the office (I know because I asked him last night after he got home from being on call), he tries to work with them through all the other options before trying a drug. He talks with them about a nighttime ritual, sleep aids, and such. If those don't work, then he starts thinking of short-term drug use to help with the problem. Of course, that's usually after he's checked for sleep apnea . . . It's complicated.

Oh, and he was shocked that Kennedy was even walking after taking Fenergan and Ambien--they both knock most people right out on their own, let alone together.

[crispini]

96. LOL. Nice Colbert-ish riff.

:rofl:

[MercutioATC]

134. .

.

[no_hypocrisy]

13. Not to go off topic, but my analysis of the Ambien problem is

more than the efficacy of the pharmaceutical.

I think that Americans' lifestyles need to be examined in order to understand why so many individuals are suffering from sleep deprivation. It's for several reasons.

1. How many have to work more than one job in order to make ends meet? That could mean a part-time job or two. Including a night shift. Working 50 to 60 hours. And commuting to both. That invites erratic sleeping patterns, especially if you're flipping back and forth between day and night shifts.

2. How about the anxiety that sets in when you go to bed and all you can do is count unpaid bills instead of sheep? That does not give you REM sleep.

3. Staying up to watch Dave or Jay or whoever. Or talk radio. Americans have been known to "get by" on 5 to 6 hours of sleep.

4. Obstructive sleep apnea. Worse than snoring. You stop breathing and it raises your blood pressure. Maybe you don't know because you live alone and it's never been witnessed. Or maybe you know, but you don't have health insurance to get a polysomnography, a diagnosis, and CPAP machine in order to have restored healthy sleep.

And

instead, the only thing you can afford or have time for or worse, your doctor has time for, is to give you a prescription for Ambien.

It's the State of the Union, folks and squibs are traditionally the quick fix. Ambien IS a great drug, when there is nothing else. But as I have stated, inadequate and unsatisfactory sleep has many origins that need address.

[Texasgal]

26. For the record..

Ambien was not meant to be a "constant" drug for people with sleep disorders. It s used to "help" people get to the point of "sleeping well".If you have ever been a person that has dealt with sleep deprivation, ambien can be a LIFE SAVER.

[Ilsa]

14. But, but, but, doctors are sooooo expensive...and it's easier to ask

strangers on the internet whose qualifications I am oblivious to (sorry about the dangling prep). :sarcasm:

Ilsa "take'em if you need 'em", RN.

[CelticWinter]

16. I took ambien

and it worked well at getting me to sleep, but my dreams were so real feeling i found myself screaming out in the nite and sleep walking around my house.

[RoyGBiv]

22. Funny thing ...

St. John's Wort does something similar to that to me. My dreams are so vivid that when I wake up, I find myself unable not to focus on them. If they were good dreams, that's okay. If they were bad dreams, not so much. When I was taking the doses a so-called expert in herbal medicine told me to take, I actually ended up more depressed and anxious because of those dreams.

[CelticWinter]

29. St. John's Wort didnt work for me

and my dreams from the ambien were horrible----it was dreams repeating themself 4-5 times a week. My doctor had me on ambien for 3 months to see if I could adjust to it and never did so she took me off----I still have trouble sleeping but I just stay up til I drop but at least Im not dealing with the nightmares or the sleep walking.

[Carni]

17. I drink a half a fifth of vodka when I can't sleep

Works great--no sleep eating or driving.

[0007]

43. A couple of tokes of some good shit does the trick for many.

[adriennui]

49. i'll take my chances with ambien

a fifth of vodka has very unpleasant side effects and does wonders for the liver, esophagus and kidneys.

[Carni]

142. That was actually just something called a *joke*

But thanks for the lecture.

[RoyGBiv]

18. Totally with you ...

I don't know a thing about Ambien, so I can offer no comment on that. There is a drug (Effexor) for which I tend to have a similar, negative, knee-jerk reaction, but I usually keep my mouth shut because a) I'm *not* a doctor and b) Effexor quite literally saved my mother's life. (Nearly killed me, but we're different people and so had different reactions.)

But I can agree that there are a lot of people, not just on DU, but in life, that perceive themselves as experts on just about everything just because they read about it somewhere and will not hesitate to hold forth with their self-endowned wisdom.

It's irritating, especially when you are an expert in whatever it is and have to sit there and witness it, especially with the so-called wisdom reaches the level of popular myth, and nothing you, the expert, say means anything to said people.

Besides, unless I missed something, it's against DU rules to seek or give medical advice here. As you say, talk to your doctor. That's what s/he is there for.

[JuniperLea]

19. There ya go!

Good for you! Not all drugs are for all people and only a Dr. can make that call.

I've been guilty of giving my own experiences... for instance, recently there was a GERD thread and I provided a link to a natural digest support enzyme that completely eliminated my GERD. But for someone to advise another to stop taking a prescribed medication... quite another story, and downright dangerous, imho. Glad I missed it.


My favorite sleep aid: Somi-sex:)

[Bozita]

20. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta said that Kennedy's claim is consistent with ...

... similar behavior in other Ambien users. He said the number of reported incidents wasn't high, but the similarities were striking.

Gupta interviewed a man shown in silhouette whose experience sounded a lot like Kennedy's.

[goclark]

119. IMO, I will believe him over O'Liely anyday nt

[DemoTex]

25. Why is sleep deprivation such a major problem in the US?

Why is it such a problem that you, a RN, would defend a product like Ambien? I'm not flaming .. I'm just asking. I tend to believe that sleep deprivation is a condition contrived to meet a drug market.

[Texasgal]

33. Unfortunately you are incorrect

Sleep deprivation is caused generally by other health issues.

Take high blood pressure

or

Diabetes

Or

Hormone issues.


Or a host of other problems.

Don't arm chair doctor on us...please.

[DemoTex]

36. See my "mea culpa" below ..

You are absolutely right, TexasGal. Thanks for setting me straight. I owe you an apology.

Mac

[Texasgal]

38. Your okay...

:)

[Bluerthanblue]

125. I Agree Texasgal, but would add

that our society has contributed to this problem in many ways- The rush, rush, produce, produce attitude- The driving ourselves relentlessly- filling each moment with things that 'must' be done-
Not knowing how to truly 'be still' or relax, or be in 'the moment'-

We are being encouraged to see any time not spent in 'doing' something- ANYTHING, is 'waisted' time-and that (I believe) is what serves to help the 'masses' of people to go along with what is being done IN our country, BY our country, and TO our country with so little outrage.

I have struggled with sleep problems since childhood- most all of it can be explained or 'understood'- And I agree, lack of sleep is NOT a 'good' or 'healthy' thing- But, I'm also not sure that some- (not a small number) Americans might not do well to lay awake tossing and turning, ruminating over the state of the 'states' for a while, in order to "WAKE UP" and smell the stench our society is trying to pretend doesn't exist.

Not discounting true sleep disorders- I've taken Ambien, as well as many other meds to be able to get to sleep- and still struggle, but lately, I've wondered if we shouldn't be "Losing sleep"- on a national scale.

peace,
blu

[RoyGBiv]

39. It's not ...

Just speaking from personal experience, of course, but this is something that seems to run in the family. Not everyone has the problem, but a lot of us do.

I can actually drop on a dime when the sun is out, but I can't stay asleep more than an hour or so when I do, if that. I regularly spend weeks at a time with no more than a couple hours of sleep per day. I remember once at my last job I scheduled three emergency days off in a row just so I could sleep. I'd been awake almost five days solid, just little 15 - 30 minute naps here and there. During those three days, I got a total of about eight hours, and not consecutive hours.

Part of it is the way our society has developed to work on a 24 hour clock. My last job contributed heavily to the problem I had experienced ever since my teens. I worked rotating shifts on a 24 hour schedule, and my body had no clue what day or night meant anymore. I'm better now than I was, but even though I am up at around 6am every day, I regularly am awake until 2am or so. I try to go to sleep earlier than that and just can't. I lay there and toss and turn and can't get my brain to shut off to let me go to sleep, which tends to result in me staying awake even longer.

The really crappy part is that I can't take drugs for it. Everything that's been tried on me has horrible side-effects.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

27. Data that matters

http://www.lef.org/protocols/lifestyle_longevity/insomnia_01.htm

There is no single patient type when it comes to poor sleep, although women tend to suffer from insomnia in greater numbers than men. Insomnia may be associated with a wide variety of prescription drugs and other conditions, such as Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s disease, coronary artery disease, cancer, dementia, breathing difficulties (e.g., sleep apnea), or chronic conditions such as rheumatism (Graci G 2005; Power JD et al 2005).

Hoping to better understand the connection between insomnia and diseases, researchers have conducted studies examining the levels of various chemical signals (called cytokines) in sleep and insomnia. They have discovered that nighttime secretion of the cytokine interleukin-6 is significantly increased in patients with primary insomnia (Burgos I et al 2005). Interleukin-6 is a pro-inflammatory cytokine that is linked to cardiovascular and other diseases. Researchers have found that lack of sleep correlates with interleukin-6 production both day and night, which might also explain why so many insomniacs experience daytime sleepiness: interleukin-6 is involved in regulating sleep (Vgontzas AN et al 2005). Additional studies have found that tumor necrosis factor, another pro-inflammatory cytokine, is increased in insomniacs during the daytime and that levels of these two cytokines are closely related to the level of fatigue experienced (Vgontzas AN et al 2002). These findings mean that insomnia may promote a constant state of low-grade inflammation that may accelerate many diseases of aging.

[DemoTex]

32. Good post. I did not know that.

I retract #25.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

146. Hmmm, this isn't a JAMA or NEJM article. Nor does it cite the particular

study that found this loose correlation.

MKJ

[Richard D]

28. that said . . .

. . . it's a pretty damn good idea to research any chemical and/or herb you are going to be putting into your body and not place perfect faith in your doctor. Many of them do not even know the possible side effects of all of the meds they perscribe. Really. Especially if they are a few years out of school. Especially if it's a new drug. So it could save your life to know that X drug may cause whatever it might cause. Really.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

30. Possible side effects of......

What are the possible side effects of zolpidem?
• If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking zolpidem and seek emergency medical attention:
· an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, face, or tongue; hives); or
· hallucinations, abnormal behavior, or severe confusion.
• Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take zolpidem and talk to your doctor if you experience
· headache, drowsiness, dizziness, or clumsiness;
· nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or constipation;
· depression;
· muscle aches or pains;
· vivid or abnormal dreams; or
· amnesia (memory loss) after a dose.
• A problem that may occur when sleep medicines are stopped is known as "rebound insomnia." This means that a person may have more trouble sleeping the first few nights after the medicine is stopped than before starting the medicine. If you should experience rebound insomnia, do not get discouraged. This problem usually goes away on its own after 1 or 2 nights
• Zolpidem is habit forming. Stopping this medication suddenly can cause withdrawal effects if you have taken it continuously for several weeks. Talk to your doctor about the safe use of this medication.
• Side effects other than those listed here may also occur. Talk to your doctor about any side effect that seems unusual or that is especially bothersome.

[Texasgal]

42. I completely agree!

Do your reaserch... don't listen to someone her on DU that had a bad experience. TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR!!! MOST IMPORTANT!!!

[politicat]

41. Thank you!!!!

As one who would not be here were it not for drugs that helped alleviate insomnia and chronic sleep deprivation, I thank you.

Have a fire extinguisher on me!

[blue neen]

44. Thanks Texasgal, for setting the record straight.

I've had sleep problems for almost 25 years now because of clinical depression. Ambien has been a godsend. I can take it occasionally and know that I will get a good night's sleep because of it. In the morning there is no "hangover" or drugged out feeling.

If you have a sleep deprivation problem, it's nice to know that there is a medication out there that you know you can rely on in a pinch. I used to sleep like a baby when I was younger, but once the clinical depression kicked in...forget about it. I need help sometimes. It's a health problem, just like diabetes or arthritis, etc.

Ambien has been a good drug in my personal experience. The doctor didn't push it on me. It was recommended, but it was ultimately my choice whether to take it or not. My doctor respects me, and I respect him. That is the relationship that matters.

blue neen

[Texasgal]

46. Very good story!!

Doctor patient relationships are VERY important.

Thank YOU for sharing!

[badgerpup]

45. I used to use tryptophane when it was still available.

Wasn't so much a knockout as I could get to sleep, and no hangover or fuzziness next day.
UNFORTUNATELY...some people were taking about 300x the recommended dose and developing eosinophelia, and since the drug companies weren't invested in tryptophane, instead of just putting out "Don't do stupid things with it, Stupid!" warnings, they got the FDA to take it off the market.

Just from the tiny bit of info I saw...why was Patrick Kennedy driving AFTER taking the Ambien and phenargen? :shrug:

Not being smart-ass or freeperzoid...just askin'.

[Texasgal]

47. WEll... not a smart thing to do that's for sure...

If you read the drugs interactions, it states pretty specifically not to DRIVE or use heavy machinery while taking the drug.

I have to chalk that up to someone who did not follow instructions.

[SPKrazy]

51. It's Also A Problem That Has Come Up In The Media

Reports of Ambien induced somnambulism

whether that is what Kennedy did, or what he was doing driving after taking ambien and phenergan.

He is now going into a drug treatment center.

[Der Blaue Engel]

48. People seem to be discussing their personal experiences

and feelings about the drug, not dispensing medical advice. I'm pretty sure the mods would delete them if they thought that was case, as it against DU rules.

And seriously, anyone who would make medical decisions based on a DU thread would have to be dumb enough to deserve the consequences.

[Texasgal]

52. I would find the link...

BUt I am too lazy to do so... This evening I have seen many posts that have denounced ambien and a poster who outright TOLD another DU'er not to take it anymore.

And NO.. the mods DID not get it.

ON edit, here's one of many: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1113660&mesg_id=1113966

[Der Blaue Engel]

57. Did you alert?

I just did. We'll see what happens. I had a thread deleted once for just asking a question about a drug, so the mods really should treat this the same. (Actually, this post will probably be deleted for discussing deletions. Oh, well.)

[rucky]

53. If you're freaked out about it...

may I suggest Paxil?

I'm not a doctor, but I post as one on the DU.

[Texasgal]

55. I certainly HOPE that wasn't a cheap shot at me.

I am an RN who has trained for many years and has worked in many capacities of health care. I am very proud of what I do.

I hope that your sly remark doesn't come in ear shot of a nurse who is helping save your life.

If that comment wasn't meant for me, please clarify.

[rucky]

98. It was a satirical comment about the armchair doctors...

you're complaining about. But judging from your reactions up and down this thread, I can now see how it could be interpreted as a personal attack, although that was not the original intent.

[Mr_Spock]

54. I have a bottle of Ambien right here...

I was given it by my doctor for sleeping issues (or lack of) obviously.

I took my first pill that day and it hit within 1/2 hour - wow - I could barely get to the bed - my brain was shutting down so fast I couldn't control my body very well. Nasty stuff!! I've since taken 1/2 pill and it doesn't have that effect. I can't see why you would get addicted to it - it's very annoying when you can't function suddenly - I didn't like it at all. I can see people doing stuff while the conscious part of their brain is fast asleep - it's one creepy drug. Maybe people can't stop needing it to sleep - this stuff is way too dangerous to be taking every day - I can see myself sleep walking with Ambien :(

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. My Bottle's Right In Front Of Me Too. In Fact, I'm Poppin One Right Now.

And in 15 minutes, I'll be lovin it.

[Mr_Spock]

94. "lovin it" - what do you mean by that?

Does it make you feel high, or do you just like the way it forcefully makes you very very sleepy.

I've decided I can take 1/2 pill without excessive side effects, a whole pill and I almost fell down the stairs - it works a little to good for me :rofl:

[smirkymonkey]

141. Similar thing happened to me...

and this is not to be interpreted as "advice", but I am merely stating that my experience w/ Ambien is consistent with reports of Patrick Kennedy's supposed "blackout."

I had no experience of getting drowsy at all. Luckily I was around other people at the time and they reported back to me what happened, as I had no memory of anything. (I took it for transatlantic travel.) Apparently, it was like a switch going off and they said I went from completely coherent to a slurring, rambling mess before I passed out and didn't wake until 7 hours later. Sure, I went to sleep, but I have absolutely no recollection of drifting off or even interacting w/ my friends or the flight crew (which I apparently did).

The effect on me was sudden and drastic. Of course, I share Patrick Kennedy's physiology to a certain degree as a recovering person. I didn't become addicted to the drug because I had no memory of a pleasant sensation or any sensation at all from it. Just On/Off.

[tyedyeto]

58. I have taken Ambien

and I would never have driven after I took the pill.

I may not be an 'armchair' doctor but knowing how I was 'knocked out' by that drug... I would never have attempted to drive after I took the medication.

Granted, not everyone reacts the same but in my case, I would have been definitely 'out of it' to drive any vehicle.

[pnwmom]

66. But some people wake up prematurely, while still under the influence

of the drug, and do things they shouldn't do and don't remember later.

My mother was given Ambien after an injury. But the pain from the injury would wake her up about 4 in the morning, and then she would start to do nutty things. When she was switched to Benadryl (a plain old sleep-inducing antihistamine) she immediately went back to normal.

So you can say you would never drive, but you might, if you were in effect sleep-walking. You just don't know. My mother certainly didn't INTEND to do stupid things; she was in a dream-like state. Thank goodness she didn't happen to drive a car, but she might have if she had had access to one.

[pnwmom]

59. The problem to me is that there is no mechanism whereby, once a

drug has been released, patients or doctors actually report ALL of the complications that occur with it. That, combined with the fact that FDA regulations changed years ago to release drugs without as much pre-market testing, means that patients taking new drugs are being guinea pigs for the drug industry (which accounts for why so many new drugs are being taken off the market.) And it means that not all the side effects get identified, at least not in a timely fashion.

When my child had a serious vaccine reaction that persisted for a whole week, the doctor said it couldn't be the vaccine, because the vaccine only causes a reaction that lasted for 48 hours. So, of course, he didn't report it. But how is the FDA supposed to know the full extent of possible reactions if all the unusual cases go unreported?

By the way, I found out only AFTER my son's reaction that my healthy baby sister died of encephalitis the day after a vaccine. But no one then ever told my parents that might have been a reaction to the vaccine, and of course it never got included in anyone's statistics.

So I think both doctors and patients need to regard drug company claims with a healthy scepticism, and to use their own heads.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

63. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SANITY TEXASGAL!!!!!!!!!

The way some have literally crucified ambien is terrifying to me. It has shown me that some can be every bit as zealous, closeminded, and irrational as, well, you know.

Seriously, I read some of the things said about it and how bitter and rageful the emotions are about it and it makes me scratch my head in disbelief as to how quickly some are willing to jump on an irrational bandwagon.

I love ambien personally. It may make me foggy sometimes, and memory is a bit hazed, but no where near any level that would deem it unsafe. People use fear here sometimes in every bit of a self serving way as the fuckin neocons do.

[Erika]

65. Why would you use a drug that makes you foggy and

distorts your memory? Out of curiousity. How do you rationalize that? Out of curiousity. I can see an aspirin for helping the aching bones.

[pnwmom]

67. My mother was given the drug because she had broken bones that

were causing a lot of pain. Aspirin doesn't help enough for everything.

Kennedy had some sort of GI disturbance.

[Erika]

68. Ambien is a pain reliever? n/t

[pnwmom]

76. No, it isn't. But they give it to people in pain to help them sleep,

along with other meds.

But when they took her off Ambien and substituted Benadryl (which is an antihistamine, but makes people sleepy ) she was able to sleep through the night and didn't find herself waking up 4 hours later, under the influence.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

69. Why The Hell Not?

It's not dangerous, causes no long term damage, and the fogginess, well, ya know, is kinda what you're supposed to feel when you're tired and going to sleep.

Ambien is one of the best medications on the market in my opinion. It helps millions of people and carries with it extremely low risks when taken properly. It is also extremely effective in helping one attain sleep.

The overblown and overdramatized reports in relation to the drug are nothing more than slander. To crucify a drug that has helped so many due to less than .1% having issues is simply irresponsible and pathetic in my opinion. I shake my head in disbelief of the zealotry sometimes. The way some here make it sound, you'd think that 1 of 3 ambien users have these side effects for gods sake. Notttttttttttt even close. It's ridiculous already.

[ShortnFiery]

71. less than .1% having issues

Whoa! This doc (tease!) is going to have to break out her PDR to check the veracity of that statement.

Time will tell but many indicators are that this Medication is going to have a second, good hard look at by the FDA. As we, IMO, it should. Like how many sleepwalking and car accidents do we need to realize a Medication is dangerous?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. It's Not Dangerous. It Is Overwhelmingly Safe.

Millions, yes MILLIONS of people are on ambien. If it was unsafe, or the severe side effects when taken PROPERLY were that frequent in number, there would be sleepwalking drivers all over the road. Hey, in fact look out your window right now! There must be one going by this second! :rofl:

I laugh so hard at these anti ambien crusaders that latch onto every itty bitty incident as if it is now the gospel. If a medication that treats MILLIONS of people had any real legitimacy to being dangerous, there would be no if ands or buts about it. Not the case though, in reality, the numbers are MINISCULE.

No rhetoric, disillusionment, closed mindedness, irrationality, lack of reasoning or 'Playing Doctor On DU' is going to change that very simple fact.

[pnwmom]

77. Ambien IS on the top ten list of substances involved in D.U.I.'s.

at least in some states.

How can you be sure the side effects are so rare when there is no system in place to report ALL after-market drug complications?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1106227&mesg_id=1106553

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. Blah Blah Blah Come On Now.

This is getting ridiculous. Hey, I'll tell ya what, name the other nine ok? How many different drugs you think are out there that would contribute to that? Well, go for it, name the other nine. Furthermore, it isn't in the top ten. It is in the top ten in some counties or some states, not overall. In addition, in most cases it was simply because it wasn't taken properly. Hey, wanna know something? When you don't take medications as prescribed bad things may happen. But don't blame the damn medication.

Like I said, Ambien is hands down one of the safest and effective medications on the market today, and is appreciated by MILLIONS. If there was any real problem of any significance with it, there wouldn't only be a handful of legitimate stories. It would be so apparent the drug would be pulled off the market in a heartbeat.

So enough of the melodrama, I'm off to bed, with the assistance of my beloved, safe and effective Ambien. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

[pnwmom]

93. You sure do sound like a pharmaceutical salesman. "Beloved, safe, and

effective Ambien." Either that or you write the commercials.

[ShortnFiery]

79. Yes, but if it's that MINUSCULE driver who plows down your

loved one in a car, well it's like sort of significant to you and society at large.

My suggestion would be that it be more tightly controlled since it is always tempting to take more ... but hell, you're right that I don't understand for I can count my bouts of insomnia on two hands.

Albeit small, the severity of these side effect have an impact on society at large. If you careen your car into a wall and only take yourself out of the game, that's no harm, no foul. However, when this sleepwalking behavior puts other, innocent people in danger, hey! This medication may need to be monitored more closely - smaller doses prescribed for all but the most severe cases of insomnia.

[pnwmom]

81. Exactly. If you're one of the ones affected by the "rare" side effect, who

cares how rare it is. And there's no reason that Kennedy couldn't have been one of the people with a bad reaction, just like my mother was.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

83. Tell Me, Why'd He Check Himself Into Rehab? Wasn't For Ambien, So

what was it for then? Maybe, just maybe the med he checked himself in for might've played a role. Just maybe. Ya think?

And if you're affected by a rare side effect, then stop the medication.

[pnwmom]

90. Something else Ambien users have done is gone to bed, then woken

up and polished off a bottle of whisky. (This was not something my mother did; I read it somewhere when I was trying to figure out what was going on with my mother.) Suppose Kennedy took the Ambien and then, while under its influence, poured himself a drink. He'd obviously have a problem. But his drinking would have been out of his conscious control.

On the other hand, maybe he actually didn't drink, maybe he's one of the rare cases to have trouble giving up Ambien, and he's going to rehab to wean himself off of it. Some people DO have to do that. There ARE cases of dependency.


I just don't understand all the antipathy toward him, and all the people so sure he's lying. That's what irritates me. His story is credible, and he's not a hypocrite like Rush. He's always pushed for medical insurance parity for people with mental health issues, and he's always been open about his struggles. But he inherited rotten genes from both sides of the family and is going to have to struggle with this disease for the rest of his life.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

82. With All Due Respect, FAR More Fatal Accidents Are Caused By

just simply sleepy drivers. Far more. Maybe we should make sure we prescribe MORE Ambien to those not yet on it so that LESS people drive during the day sleepy, because they couldn't fall asleep the night before.

Ambien is not a problem, period. Tiredness is. Cellphones while driving is. Being distracted by bush bumperstickers and feeling the need to cut them off and slam on your brakes is. Underage drinking and cars that go too fast, is. Ambien? Not so much.

[ShortnFiery]

85. OMC, I'm going to give you POINT and GAME, for you make

a decent case for Ambien.

Only time will tell if I'm going to have to give ya MATCH too. :P

I hope you have a good night's sleep my FAV adversary. :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

72. Here is the clinical trial study results - 4% discontinue rate

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/zolpid_ad.htm

On Edit: The Class Action lawsuits are already surfacing here ...

http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/11484/

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. 4% Overall, For Even Mild Side Effects. And For A Medication, That's An

extremely impressive rate. The fact that there are that many that don't discontinue it is a testiment to how safe it is. Thanks for that.

As far as the class action lawsuits go, it is still a very miniscule number. Furthermore, did you catch this part? "drivers under the influence of unusually high doses of Ambien " and "The pattern involves taking the drug and not sleeping, or taking more than the recommended dose. Some drivers, for example, got up and drove in the middle of the night, while others, who planned to go to sleep as soon as they got home, took the drug before driving."

When taken PROPERLY, it is extremely safe and has an extremely low rate of adverse effects. In fact, it is probably one of the safest mass medications out there, PERIOD.

[ShortnFiery]

74. Ok OMC, time will tell if Ambien is really the breakthrough sleep aid

that you believe it to be. Touche indeed! :-)

[pnwmom]

87. From your article: "The prescriber should be aware that these figures

cannot be used to predict the incidence of side effects in the course of usual medical practice, in which patient characteristics and other factors differ from those that prevailed in these clinical trials."


In other words, under normal conditions, as opposed to this research study, we JUST DON"T KNOW what the side effect rates really are. This applies to all pharm. research, not just this study. That's why so many drugs get withdrawn after-market. Until millions of people are taking them, we don't really know all how serious the side effects are going to be.

[pnwmom]

84. Other people take the drug, go to bed, and then wake up too soon. That's

when the problems can occur. My mother was waking up after only 4 hours, while still heavily under the influence, and then doing things without conscious volition that she couldn't remember the next day.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. Such As Getting In Her Car, Being Chased By Cops, And Running Into A

barricade, while claiming she was late for some work task?

No? Didn't think so.

[pnwmom]

88. If she had had access to a car, she certainly COULD have. As it was, she

didn't. But she was capable of dialing the telephone and calling me in a disoriented state, operating the stove, the microwave, calling 911 to report being kidnapped, and other exciting things. As it was, she was recovering from some fractures in an assisted living place, and she didn't have her car there. Thank goodness.

When they switched her to Benadryl, she was able to go home. It's been two years since then and no recurrance of any problems. It was the Ambien.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. If You Say So. n/t

[SOS]

115. Re the irrational bandwagon

My wife was prescribed Ambien during a stressful period at work when she couldn't sleep well.
One morning we woke to find our windows had been washed, inside and out, four floors up.
Then one morning at 6am my wife was screaming in the bathroom, pouring water on herself. She told me she was on fire.
We went to the ER. Diagnosis: Ambien side effects.

Bitter? No. Rageful? No. Irrational? No. Self-serving fucking neo con? No.

Just a couple of people who are happy to have survived this drug. No matter how many millions they spend on ads and physician perks, we'll never touch it again.

Here are hundreds of others who had a similar experience with Ambien:

http://www.rxlist.com/rxboard/ambien.pl?noframes

[Skittles]

78. I love it

I have serious insomnia and take Ambien on occasion - I don't keep taking it though, I don't like the idea of taking anything longterm. But, I've never had any complications from it.

[REP]

91. Don't You Know That Anecdote is the Plural of Data?

I have seen some of the most fucked-up medical 'advice' and information here (and on other internet forums; it's not limited to here). I have to hope that people are talking to their doctors and not just relying on what they heard from a friend of a friend of friend's neighbor's sister-in-law's cousin.

[Awsi Dooger]

92. The standard dosage is too high

Take 1/2 or 1/3 of a pill and it works fine. More slowly to sleep but otherwise perfect. I can't imagine taking a full tablet unless I was sick and needed immediate sleep.

[Mr_Spock]

95. That's what I have found as well.

The feeling for me was that one pill could "knock out a horse", but 1/2 pill is just fine.

In all the arguing above, less sensitive people cannot even use enough of their brain to comprehend that some of us are much more drug sensitive than others.

I don't care for these sorts of threads.

[knitter4democracy]

111. That's what my hubby said.

I asked him last night, and he said that he often prescribes much lower doses for his patients.

[Hubert Flottz]

97. I try to treat people the way I'd like to be treated...

and I sleep like a baby.

[NC_Nurse]

102. Depends on many factors...

like the factors which are causing a person's sleeplessness. That's why it's good to sort it out with a physician you trust,... with a caveat:
I do feel that many doctors reach for the Rx pad to provide the quickest, easiest and EXPECTED answer for patients. You are ultimately responsible for your own health and must decide what's right for you. It's nobody else's business. I often decide not to fill a prescription and find other ways to deal with my health problems. I have found that I am very sensitive to medicines and that they often prove more harmful than helpful.
Pharmaceuticals are not always the answer that the industry would have you and your doctor believe. I am astounded every day at the amount of precription meds that my patients take and how little they know about them.
Just my .02...

[Hubert Flottz]

103. I owe my life to some doctors and nurses.

I'd be sleeping the big sleep now, if it wasn't for their skills. I've been in the hospital enough to know how hard you folks work and have seen how hard your job is! I salute you.

[knitter4democracy]

112. Depends on the doctor, too.

I'm really sensitive to most drugs and can't even take many. My hubby's seen that with me, and he tends to try other routes with his patients first. He only goes for the drugs if he really feels they're needed.

I know that you said that not all doctors are like that, but I worried that people wouldn't read that part and only see a nurse saying doctors overprescribe.

[johnnie]

107. People have to face it

We are a drugged out nation and it will not change anytime soon. The pharmacy business is a multi-billion dollar a year industry and as time goes on it will just continue to hold us in its grasp and suck even more money from us.

Drugs to fall asleep, drugs to wake up, drugs for being sad, drugs for being happy, drugs to keep us slim and trim, drugs to get a hard on, drugs to make our hair grow, drugs to make our skin shine, drugs to shut up little kids and drugs to make our drugs work.

Anyone can walk into a doctor's office and say they can't sleep and will get a prescription for sleep meds with hardly any questions asked. I can walk into a doctor's office and tell the doctor that I am not really happy with my life and go home with a bottle of Zoloft.

As some say here, millions and millions of people are on Ambien and that is true, but there are some people who deal with their insomnia without popping pills. I am one of them. I have suffered from insomnia since I can remember. I went to a doctor when I was 16 and he gave me suggestions on how to relax. None of his suggestions really worked, but I learned to deal with not sleeping for periods at a time and that's that.

As our eating habits decline, our drug companies are sucking us out of our hard earned cash and it seems that many people are just fine with that as long as we don't need to learn to treat our bodies right and can pop a few pills to fix us up in a flash.

I believe that medications are fine for some certain situations, but I also feel that too many people are unnecessarily medicated and it won't get better anytime soon. So take your drugs, let them control your body and mind, let me pay the continuing higher costs of my health insurance to help cover the costs of your meds and we all can be happy.

[lins the liberal]

113. I agree with you Johnnie

The drug companies come up with new drugs, then begin to "invent" illnesses for the drugs in order to have a market for them. This is not to say that there are not drugs that save people's lives everyday. However, over all we are a "drugged" out nation, and will continue to be as long as there is huge sums of money to be made from convincing us we need this drug or that drug.

I have a friend who lives in California. I live in Arkansas. One morning by mistake she took an ambien, it was her husband's and looked similar to one of her medications. We were talking on the phone. She started slurring her words then talking absolute nonsense. I had no idea what was wrong with her. Did not know her street address, only had a PO box for her. Did not know where her husband worked. I finally got her to promise to call her husband then call me back. She didn't call back. I kept calling and calling and she finally answered. She told me she couldn't talk to her husband because he was in a meeting. Turns out she did talk to her husband, he realized something was wrong and hurried home. He took her to the ER and they could find nothing wrong. Later in the day they finally realized she had taken one of his ambiens my mistake. That convinced me I NEVER wanted to take ambien.

[DemExpat]

136. This is certainly my view as well, johnnie,

as one who has lived the life with drugs and now without.

:thumbsup:

DemEx

[fishnfla]

110. I am in the medical field, and I respectfully disagree

TG you and I dont see eye-to-eye on this ;), but I respect your opinion. For the majority of people it is a wonderful drug, but......here's what happens.

Big Pharma is spendings scads of money on research and development to find new lucrative drugs. They also spend gobs and gobs of cash on marketing. They send young attractive drug reps with cases of free samples who bribe Drs. and their staff with all sorts of goodies to get them to RX their newest latest NON GENERIC drug.

The problem is the drugs are not tested properly by the FDA and sometimes are rushed thru the vetting process without all side effects or long-term events fully known.

Can you say VIOXX? Or more up your alley TG, Viagra and optic nueritis? Now Ambien and sleep driving. Bet the slick drug rep never mentioned that!

Essentially they are release beta versions of medicine out into the general public who are being the large scale and long-term study group for the new drugs. The FDA has done it before with certain AIDS drugs too.

But the die has been cast, the Drs have the drugs on hand and the public is bombarded with "ask your DR" TV ads. Also we live in an instant gratification society whereby all things simple and complicated should be easy to solve, or quick-fixed.

My father was an old-school medical DR. He always jokes, or his patients that where friends of his would joke, that he would say:

"Well, if you cant sleep, just stay awake!"

I think that lifestyle medicines like this are overused and oversold. A good healthy diet, and plenty of physical and mental exercise will help one sleep.

[goclark]

121. Yes! Yes! Yes! nt

[SiouxJ]

114. Thank you. I've used it on and off for about 5 years

I take half the recommended dose, maybe 2 or 3 times a week and it is wonderful. I've used all the natural sleep products too (Valerian, Melatonin, Passion Flower etc.) but if I really need to be assured of a good night's sleep with no "hangover," I go for the Ambien.

[debbierlus]

118. Ambien is only suppossed to be used for VERY SHORT term

Durations....

Like three days!

It amazes me that this drug is even prescribed for more then a week!

[mtnsnake]

120. If you can't sleep, just pick up "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell

I guarantee you'll fall asleep within minutes. If doctors prescribed this book to all of their insomnia patients, there would be no need for sleep-inducing drugs ever again.

[Mr_Spock]

126. Is it that boring?

:rofl:

[mtnsnake]

127. It's worse!

It's maddening! He takes 10 or 15 pages to say what anyone else could tell you in 2 paragraphs! The only thing good about that book is the title and the premise of it! Everything else you already know. All he does is take everyone elses ideas and he bores you do death by trying to put his own personal stamp on them to make it appear as if he coming up with stuff that no one knew about.

Trust me. If you can't sleep, stay away from Ambien and lie down with that book instead when you're ready to go nappy noodle. You'll fall asleep within 5 pages, and there are no side effects, other than maybe a stiff neck if you happen to read on the couch!

[Mr_Spock]

129. I'll have to admit, a moderately boring book works faster than Ambien

:rofl:

Reading a book will knock me out faster than a haymaker from Mohammad Ali

:rofl:

[grasswire]

123. here's the acid test

Colin Powell said a few years ago when he was secretary of state that "all of us" -- the top echelon of the WH, presumably including Bush -- were taking Ambien for sleep.

Do you feel comfortable knowing that the very fate of the world is in the hands of people who are taking Ambien regularly, with all its known side effects?

[bloom]

124. If there was reliable drug testing - and we could trust companies

NOT to put drugs out on the market that are unsafe - you might have a point.

People driving without knowing they are driving - this happening in multiple cases - having wrecks - sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.

There are other choices.

[merh]

132. No flames from me.

Well said. :thumbsup:

[goodboy]

135. Tell me about Depakote. It helps me not to have seizures. (nt)

[Jackpine Radical]

137. Wanna try some drug-free approaches?

1) If you have some specific issues that are making you anxious, find a way to resolve them, for example by taking the action required or seeking psychotherapy.

2) Learn simple behavioral & cgnitive methods such as diaphragmattic breathing, progressive muscle relaxation & guided imagery.

3) Learn to meditate.

4) Try a light/sound brainwave entrainment device such as the DAVID or the Proteus.

5) Biofeedback. You can learn to do some simple procedures on your own, such as finger temperature training, and (under some circumstances) electrodermal response training. For others you should see a certified therapist. Pay particular attention to Heartrate Variability Training (HRV). A company called HeartMath sells a simple HRV training system to the general public for under $300, and it's very helpful for some people.

6) Brainwave training. Another category of biofeedback, rather complicated & quite effective, that involves learning to control your own cerebral activity levels. I separate it here from other forms of biofeedback for the same reason that the Association for Applied Psychophysiology & Biofeedback & the Biofeedback Certification Institute do--brainwave training involves a whole set of expertises beyond those of conventional biofeedback.

[meisje]

147. no

[American Tragedy]

149. How about exercise?

Seriously. I used to suffer from dreadful insomnia, till I noticed what happened when I engaged in hard physical exercise, both resistance and cardiovascular, to the point of exhaustion. Add in some calcium/magnesium tablets, and perhaps some melatonin or 5-HTP, and I sleep like a rock.