I Can't Drive 55!

[ThomWV]

But I never thought 60 was out of the question.

Just what in all of hell is so all fired objectionable about a national speed limit on our nation's roads?

[Warpy]

1. I'd like to see 55 on urban highways

65 on rural interstates.

Some yahoos will always think speed limits don't apply to them, that they're great drivers and far too important to dally along with the rest of us if their car is capable of doing 90. They invariably meet up with some grandpa with poor eyesight who compensates by doing 45 and that's where interstate pileups come from.

Lowering the speed limit makes sense, though, and lowering it 10 MPH won't be that much of a sacrifice for most of us. It will save a huge amount of fuel nationwide.

[FoxNewsSucks]

5. Nobody's forcing

you to drive faster than you want, why do you demand the right to force others to drive at YOUR speed? If grandpa can't see well enough to drive with the flow of traffic, he should stay off the highway. If he isn't competent to drive, he shouldn't be behind the wheel any more than a drunk should be.

I'm really tired of this country setting laws and doing everything to accomodate the lowest common denominator.

Lowering the speed limit does not make sense. If you want to drive slower, by all means, you are free to do so. Don't take that choice away from everyone else. Whether it's a sacrifice or not depends on how much someone drives.

And the next time someone passes you in the morning, instead of calling them "yahoos" or other names, remember that you don't know their circumstances. That person may have walked out to a dead battery, a flat tire or something else beyond their control that made them late. They may have an asshole boss who will fire them for being late. You don't know.

[Warpy]

6. People who drive under the speed limit tempt

all the speed demons to take stupid chances. That's why slow drivers are blamed for so many accidents. Impatient people do stupid things rather than go slow, too.

That's why we have speed limits. I'm terribly sorry if they interfere with some people's sense of their own importance to the world.

[TahitiNut]

20. That's just plain silly.

Anyone who's driven the speed limit, even in the right-hand lane, has encountered the road-rage and dangers posed by the wannabe Evil Knievel's of the Interstates. The major cause of collisions (technically, 100%) is a difference in velocity, the larger the difference the larger the hazard. For 18 months, as a personal study, I drove a daily 45-minute commute between San Jose and Gilroy and traveled no more than 5mph above the speed limit. I counted the cars that passed me and the cars I passed - and the ratio was greater than 20::1. On more than 75% of my commutes, despite the fact that I was traveling in the rightmost lane, I was 'assaulted' by another driver - usually by tailgating (less than a single car-length) and flashing lights. In the majority of cases, the assaulting driver was able to pass but chose not to, opting instead to play vigilante. Often, when they did pass, they immediately swerved in front of me and hit their brakes. The amount of road-rage was totally awesome! Remember: I was traveling at the speed limit to 5mph above it and kept to the rightmost through lane!

IMHO, it's naive in the extreme to claim there's no problem for folks who want to stay at the speed limit. I don't know where in the country this might be true - I've lived and driven in Michigan, New York, California, Washington, Texas, Alabama, and Connecticut and even Paris and London - but I've NEVER seen any such place.


On edit: I regard the comments regarding "grandpa" to be ageist and bigoted - every bit as much as "DWO." Our highways are not some opportunity for Social Darwinists to prove their reptilian superiority. Anyone with even a modicum of life experience should be aware that there's an enormous amount of stress and tragedy in everyone's lives - from the loss of employment to the death of a child, parent, or spouse to divorce and financial tragedy. The insane notion that anyone with such stresses in their lives should stay off the very highways that are unavoidable in one's life activities smacks of an arrogant elitism I'd expect from a sociopath or adolescent, not a progressive adult.

[FujiZ1]

38. So what you're saying is..

That by a margin of 20 to 1, people wish to drive faster then what you prefer. For some odd reason, even though you are a significant minority, you want to restrain them. Huh.

Maybe they wouldn't be so "evil kenievel" if you drove faster.

Love the edit, progressive people are above things, you're such an egalitarian.

[TahitiNut]

44. What is it about "speed limit" that's hard to understand?

I'll be the first in line to state that any law with which less than 80-90% are willing to voluntarily comply is not a law a democratic society should tolerate. At the same time, to even call ourselves a nation "under the rule of law" with a straight face requires of us an active participation in the enactment of laws and compliance with such laws unless and until we change them! Civil disobedience without a political objective is mere anarchy.

The condescending snarkiness targeting egalitarianism and progressivism is duly noted. :eyes:

[ktlyon]

50. In this country we seem to believe that one hasn't done wrong if

we don't get caught.
The law is not in-forced at 55 but 65 so that is the de facto speed limit.

What you have pointed out is, to me, one of the biggest problems with the people of this country. We are not really honest or law abiding. The Rethugs prove that every day. There are very few people like my mother-in-law that would never do anything wrong no matter how trivial. I will continue to try to do the right thing and hope not to fall to hard when I mess up.

[TahitiNut]

51. It's often one of the first "lessons" our children get, too.

From the time a child graduates from a car-seat, they "learn numbers" by reading speed limits and speedometers. Shortly afterwards, they 'discover' that it's OK to disobey the law if one's not caught - and that's because "we're special." I think it's an appalling lesson.

[FujiZ1]

55. Speeding is hardly a law.

I mean, obviously it IS a law. But if I get caught speeding do I feel as if I've done anything wrong? Nope. Why should I? The law exists more as a doorway for more severe criminal penalties and for financial income then for safety. I firmly believe that most people can guide themselves as to what is appropriate on the highways, and if they can't, they certainly weren't going to abide by the speed limit anyway.

I also believe everyone has the right to go 55 if they wish, in the right lane, unless flow of traffic dictates they are going too slow, in which case I believe it is just plain good manners to speed up.

I drive considerably fast, but I don't annoy people in the right lane. I'm a firm believer of driving manners, and I get agitated by the same things as you slow drivers (tailgating, lights flashing, etc). At the same time, there are rules slow drivers should follow, and they certainly don't(right-lane slow driving, not following flow of traffic, support of the "wall" where drivers in the left- right lane go the same speed).

So what I'm saying is I understand not everyone wants to go 90, but some of you must understand not everyone wants to go 50.

[TahitiNut]

58. "All the animals are equal but some are more equal than others."

That was a fascinating treatise on "different 'laws' for different folks." Thanks. :hi:

(It must be tough to share the highways with lesser beings, let alone 18-wheelers.)

[FujiZ1]

59. God, I apologize

If anyone who reads what I said feels this way, I would happy if you hate me for that, and still pay attention to manners section(of post 55, the last line).

I didn't know you held firm to such significant issues as speeding. Your sense of justice knows no bounds. You're a hero in my book, but you will never know because I'm sure you don't have time to check these forums. Instead you spend your time out giving out civil arrests to jaywalkers.

No offense, but if you have to resort to claiming I hold precedence over the law because I don't believe in the law of speeding, I can't respect it. I'm sure over 80% of Americans speed a significant amount of time(do you drive 10 in parking lots?), and you implication is that I stand with 80% of the American public in thinking (verbally or silently) speeding laws are unnecessary in some or parts of the transportation landscape makes your argument lack merit (in my opinion of course).

I view the highway system in the United States are a genuine representation of democracy, where the public voice their opinions and the majority should follow this "law." If the majority wish to drive 70 they set a imaginary law, and the rest of the public should abide. I realize this sounds crazy and petty, but this analogy does not allow for corruption, or economic favor, it seems completely fair. Yet for some odd reason we need a law to govern choice, which I think is irrational.

[TahitiNut]

61. There's no substantive difference between the stance you've described

... and a highway system without speed limits (or traffic laws) at all! That, of course, includes residential streets. After all, why bother going 20mph when 35mph is 'safe' ... for almighty ME! It's such a terrible imposition on the fella who bought the Ferrari, too! After all, if he can afford the Ferrari he should have the 'right' to use it the way it's designed. All them Honda Civics better watch out ... or get off the roads. Next, let's just buy Abrams tanks and drive wherever the fuck we want! Stop light be damned - run into me as I'm crossing traffic and die, mofos!!

[FujiZ1]

63. no

I said responsible people will dictate responsible limits, while irresponsible people will not reflect any responsibility, regardless of law.

In my example the jackass with the Ferrari either understands the safety implications that can arise with high speeds, and follows safe driving technique, or he ignores his safety and others and guns it. Adding speeding laws the same thing happens. The speeding law becomes irrelevant. Also note, I only refer to speeding. I in no way extend this logic to other things, I also give trust to the human populous, which is the right thing to do unless you are a gloomy bastard.

There will always be exceptions, but those exceptions will always represent the minority. In the case that the exceptions represent the majority, change the logic. In my situation they still represent the minority, I think I'm safe.

Sorry buddy, I have to work, cause I'm poor. I understand what you're saying, and I hope you understand what I am saying. I think we can both agree to disagree and move on to more important things(cause I KNOW we would agree that there are). Have a good night.

[Book Lover]

66. Welcome to DU!

I actually think there is merit to having a hard number asa speed limit, as opposed to "safest speed for the conditions" (though IMO it should be higher during daylight and lower during nighttime/bad weather); I am sure a cop's idea of "safe and sane" and mine are two different things. That said, I think a reasonable limit for daylight highway driving should be 70/75, with 80/85 to pass.

[Endangered Specie]

106. I love creating walls...

sometimes I give a thumbs up to the guy/gal I'm creating a wall with too :) a little love in a sea of road rage right? Some of these hot rods need a lesson in slowing down, I support throwing chronic/blatant speed violaters in jail. Oh, and blowing that horn will only make me go slower. If you are late for something, then START EARLIER next time.

[valerief]

40. I'm tired of the gotta-be-first jerks who hitch up to my rear bumper

while I'm driving the speed limit (well, maybe a tad over it) in the right lane.

And being late doesn't give a person to drive recklessly and criminally on the road. Just be late and deal with it!

[ContraBass Black]

65. It's already that way in some states.

[FoxNewsSucks]

2. Here's what's objectionable

Not every road in the entire country is exactly the same. Why should the speed limits be the same everywhere? It's ridiculous to drive 80 in crowded urban areas, and it's equally ridiculous to putter along at 55 in the High Plains states.

Let different areas continue to set speed limits that meet the condition of the particular road.

Low speed limits ended up having nothing to do with safety, they just turned out to be a cash cow for insurance companies and local governments. It's about money.

I hate paying high prices for gas, but when I drive 1000-1500 miles a week for business, I want to do it as quickly as possible so I have more time OUT of the car. Gas is valuable, but so is your TIME.

[Roland99]

32. Driving fast in the city saves, what, 18 seconds? On open roads, different

I'll drive 60-65mph around urban highways but about 10mph faster in rural areas (esp. on longer drives).

I laugh my butt off at people zooming down the interstate in the morning rush hour. Going 70-75mpg for 10 miles is going to save a negligible amount of time but will waste a noticeable amount of fuel over time.

[TahitiNut]

48. Just one stop light will totally wipe out any "time" purportedly saved.

The claim of "time savings" gained by speeding in urban/suburban populated regions is sheer nonsense. The same "competitive" inclinations of such drivers often results in parking at the destination where the individual will waste ten times the amount of time "saved" vulturing over a parking space 20' closer to the door than one that's open. The lunacy of "competition" in driving is rampant in our country.

[Nobody]

52. Just one stoplight wipes out my gas mileage

I've discovered that if I drive slower but make all the lights, I get there earlier and my gas mileage soars.

I hate the lock and dam style light timing where you have to stop at every single light. Just as you approach, it changes on you forcing you to wait the longest amount of time. Not only does this frustrate drivers and increase road rage, it wastes gas during idling and accelerating to speed only to stop again.

[TahitiNut]

56. I don't think there's a question that good planning is major.

I recall commuting in Detroit (I worked downtown) and using the timed lights along the major surface corridors (e.g. Woodward, Grand River). My fuel mileage was excellent and commute times were lower than if I used the "rubberband stop and go" freeways.

[DetroitProle]

82. really? to me, Detroit is the exception

I don't speed, and in the suburbs the lights are timed well enough that I can breeze through them. But in Detroit, on the sideroads anyway, the lights seem incomprehensibly, horribly timed. I've always blamed poor planning. With all the shit in Detroit, I doubt they care about lights. Nobody stops for them anyway.

[Endangered Specie]

107. I agree...

the roads I freqeunt I have pretty much figured out the basic timing/planning system of most the lights on my routes. There are some lights that you must get going pretty fast to make the next string of greens; and there are some you just might as well putter up to because you arent going anywhere soon with them.

I doubt I save alot of money on gas, but it surely can't hurt, plus its easier on your car's engine and brakes, which DOES save money in the long run.

One of the first/easiest things you can do is to observe the crosswalk signalheads, they can clue you in to if a light is about to change.

[BOSSHOG]

3. It might be a generational thing

When I was a young lad with not a care in the world, or a mortgage, I couldn't get to whereever I was going fast enough. Today, I just mozey along. I hang in the right lane and stay out of everybody's way. 55 to 60 doesn't bother me at all. If one plans a trip they can get there when they "plan" to. That applies to driving each day to work.

[ktlyon]

8. I hate when people drive in the left lane and clog-up the freeway

<<I hang in the left lane and stay out of everybody's way>>
If you are not going to go as fast as the people in the left lane be prepared to move right when someone comes up behind you please. Clogging the freeway causes accidents too. People go 8 miles over the speed limit because they know they will not get a ticket unless they break the 10 miles per hour over limit. If you want to stop speeders lower the limit to 10 below what you want but don't clog the traffic flow. It is the drivers that weave from lane to lane to get around slow traffic in the left lane that are the danger. You are not going to stop people from speeding but if you get out of the way it will be better for all of us. Tickets will not stop some people, they think they are more important than everyone else. Drive safe sorry for the rant. I try to go no more than 8 over.

[BOSSHOG]

11. Typo on my part

I hang in the right lane. I'm an incredibly safe driver. I got a speeding ticket once in 1984, that's my involvement with the law. I'd rather pull off the highway then hold up traffic. I have no desire to stop speeders with my vehicle, if only I could stop myself from making typos.

Not a typo, I just typed left rather than right. I am certainly not a hazard on the highway and I use my blinkers and everything. I drive in New Orleans and have no problem at all.

[seabeyond]

17. lol lol bosshog, i had to re read. big difference left and right

and staying out of peoples way. i am a firm beleiver the left lane are for speeding and the right is for drivin. i go fast and use the left only to pass someone then i am back in the right. i dont care if people go fast, i dont care if people go slow. we all work together and not get pissy cause someone dares to use our lane or pass, we will flow and all get their safely. that is my sole goal and intent

[Blue_In_AK]

45. In Alaska the rule on most highways is

if you have more than five cars lined up behind you, you need to pull over and let them pass, especially on the two-lane highways. In a place like this with so many tourists, it can be very frustrating to get stuck trailing a big RV going 45 miles an hour with 20 annoyed drivers driving behind. People get impatient and take terrible risks, resulting in horrific accidents and many casualties. But on the four-lane highways, if someone is in the right lane and driving the speed limit, I don't think they deserve the kind of abuse that TahitiNut is talking about up thread.

[ktlyon]

47. thats cool .....I call those thinkos

It happens to me too. The brain gets ahead of it's self

[BlueJazz]

4. Boy..This is a sore point with me. In other words, those of us that...

...drive automobiles that get 25-35 mpg have to drive like snails because
there happens to be jerks that insist on driving Hummers and Monsters that
get 10-14 mpg...screw that...
I say that we set the speed limit (on the Turnpikes) in accordance with your Gas Mileage.
The Hummers and Monsters can go 55 in the right lane and the rest of us can go the old speed limit.

[CountAllVotes]

7. they should drop it back to 55 mph

It was that way where I live until at least 1995 or so! I still drive 55 - 60 and I set the cruise control and JUST FORGET IT!

It is NOT difficult and it save A LOT and I drive a Honda btw. :D

:kick:

[Jane Austin]

19. When my husband's worst wife, oops, I mean first wife,

moved his eight-year-old daughter as far away from him as she could get (so this good father couldn't have lunch at school with her any more), we found ourselves driving to and from Austin, TX to East Tennessee twice a month.

Later we got the judge to change it so our two weekends a month we're contiguous rather than every-other, so we only had to make one to-and-from trip a month.

In ten years, Dearest Husband never missed a single weekend with his daughter, even though she was 1200 miles away.

If we drove straight through, taking turns and walking the dogs infrequently, it took 21 hours.

Can you imagine how much more a burden that drive would have been had it been at 55 rather than 70? Can you imagine how tired and impaired we might have been with the extra hours of driving?

There are lots of reasons 55 is a burden to people, and I am more inclined to think that burden for better mileage should be placed on auto makers rather than individual citizens with different needs.

There are people who have to drive to hospitals on the other side of town every day to visit dying or aged relatives.

There are people who get stopped by a wreck on the road who need to make up time to catch an airplane.

There are people who have sick children or pets in the car that they are rushing to the doctor.

There are people who, themselves, are having, um, gastric distress and need to get to a bathroom!

There are people who lack air-conditioning in their cars and the extra time in the sun is punishing.

There are people who have to rush to a pharmacy before it closes to get urgent medications.

There are a million reasons that individuals need to get somewhere safely and quickly.

Just because our Congress and auto manufacturers don't have the guts to impose cafe standards is no reason to burden individuals with onerous restrictions.

BTW, when I am not in an urgent rush, I am the one in the right-hand lane, in my high-mpg diesel, enjoying the scenery and feeling glad I'm not the one the trooper has just pulled over to the side. :)

[Deja Q]

35. I still can't fathom why it was rescinded in the first place.

Apart from public pressure, but how well informed is the public?

[CountAllVotes]

43. they are uninformed

I've experimented. If I drive 55 mph I get about 5 miles per gallon MORE. I'm rarely in a rush.

I can see someone driving faster IF they are in a rush for some reason.

But, I'm talking day-to-day driving to the store, etc. and back.

Drive 55 - it save and it save lives too!

They KNOW this!

They want to keep the mileage rate set where it is because the consumers will still need all of the gasoline.

Drop it back to 55 mph!

:kick:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

80. It depends on the car.

My Saab would get the best mpg at about 75-80 mph. They're made with a German engine and they don't get their best mileage at 55mph. Stay in the right lane and do whatever you want. 55mph is absurdly slow on most major American interstates.

[benEzra]

68. Because the vast majority of the public don't agree with a 55 mph limit...

I still can't fathom why it was rescinded in the first place. Apart from public pressure, but how well informed is the public?

Because the vast majority of the public don't agree with a 55 mph limit. If you doubt that, get out on a rural Interstate and see how many people are driving 55. Every single driver is voting with their right foot, and 55 gets about 1% of the votes...

I remember Interstate trips when the speed limit was 55. You know what? Total strangers would spontaneously join together into convoys to lower their risk of being stopped while driving at a more reasonable speed. CB radios proliferated and drivers kept each other informed of speed traps. Radar warning receiver sales skyrocketed. And highway patrol officers spent their time hiding in the bushes with radar guns doing "revenue enhancement" instead of patrolling the highways looking for drunks and people who needed help.

When 95% of the population is engaging in civil disobedience to a given law, the only conclusion you can come to in a democracy is that the law in question should be repealed immediately...


As far as mileage, whether your car will get better mileage at 55 rather than 60 or 65 depends greatly on your particular car, what RPM's you're turning at a given speed, what BMEP (brake mean effective pressure, a measure of average cylinder pressure and engine load) you are operating at, and so on. Internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient at low BMEP, which is why you get much better mileage at 55 than at 35 in most cars, even though there is more aerodynamic resistance at 55.

Any car will have a "sweet spot" where it is operating in the most efficient regime, at the most efficient combination of engine RPM, BMEP, and speed; for my current car, that's between 55 and 60, but for the '87 Toyota Camry I had until recently, the "sweet spot" was between 65 and 70. Cars will generally have a faster optimum speed than SUV's and trucks, due to their much lower frontal areas and drag coefficients.

[seabeyond]

9. no airconditioning in cars. that would save more gas. sweat

until you drop. dressing up for that wedding at noon on a saturday, 100 degrees outsides. hose, hair coiffed, dress, all in order. no airconditioning. no true liberal would dare turn on that airconditioning. the gas it uses

i have never been able to drive 55 on the highways in the west. i am fast moving, fast talking, fast driving. that is my rythm. my speed. bring me down to 55 and i am distracted. i bet if you could truly find the statistics accidents went up with 55 not down. in calif they were actually talking about putting billboards up on some of the roads cause people were falling asleep at 55.

i agree with the poster. i dont drive when not necessary adn waste gas. i have a little car. i dont use my airconditioning. i do what i can to conserve on gas, and going 55 is not one of the things i am willing to do, or have ever be willing to do. and it isnt just cause i am a bitch or whiney or not a true liberal (though i am not). going that slow affects my driving. if you dont get it, then you arent one that has a faster rythm for comfort and you will never get it. i have been with people that are perfectly comfortable driving slow and in no time my whole body is affected by the put put and i am literally moving my body back and forth to force the car (unconscious) to get it to move faster.

i wont be going 55. but i inisist no on use their aircondition. cause after all, what a waste of gas.

[Grateful for Hope]

31. Just read in this week's Women's World

That opening windows and using air conditioning increases gas usage is a myth. However, the article does say that increased speed (stress on engine) decreases gas mileage.

[Roland99]

34. Not sure I'd trust Women's World over car mags or car sites

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/103164/article.html

Running your air conditioner does cause your vehicle to consume more fuel, but driving with your windows rolled down can be even worse due to the increase of drag on the vehicle. If you are driving slowly, such as around town or in city traffic, then you are better off leaving your windows open, if at all possible. For highway driving, roll up the windows and turn the air conditioning on.

http://www.nsc.org/EHC/mobile/refuelin.htm

Minimize drag. Drag reduces fuel efficiency. Driving with the windows open, using roof- or rear-mounted racks, and carrying heavy loads increase vehicle drag. If you sometimes need to transport large items, use a removable rack, or if possible, carry the items in the trunk or inside the vehicle. Heavy loads increase drag. Remove heavy items from the vehicle when you don't need to carry them. A clean car body can reduce drag by up to 12 percent thereby improving fuel economy.

But, fwiw, when I drive with the A/C on, I'll turn it off when going up hills. :)

[Grateful for Hope]

37. Yeah, I am sure that the source I quoted

is probably not "up there" with those in car mags or car sites. I just thought it was interesting that I had just read an article about this when I saw this thread.

[Roland99]

33. Driving at speed with windows down uses MORE gas than using A/C

The drag experienced by the car when driving at speeds with the windows down will affect mileage more than using an A/C with the windows up.

[seabeyond]

39. cause it is just so important to save the little gas. no open window

no airconditioning. i am willing. you? after all it is the liberal thing to do. forget reason. and surviving in these 100 degree temperatures where i live.

[tammywammy]

46. I'd rather waste the gas

than give up the airconditioning.

Summertime in Texas, it just requires AC.

[benEzra]

69. At U.S.-legal speeds, that depends greatly on the car and the speed...

an SUV is so draggy to begin with that rolling the windows down may not affect mileage at all. A Prius traveling 85 mph will probably lose more by rolling down the windows than turning on the A/C, though. Most cars will fall in the middle, and you need to check it yourself to see.

[immoderate]

76. Not to mention there is more traffic.

I fall asleep at 55 on an interstate. Moreover, there will be about 30% more cars on the road if they are going 55 as opposed to 75.

--IMM

[Toots]

10. 50 mph would be just fine by me

Almost all Republicans and a large portion of Democrats will ignore the law anyway. It is the American way. Ignore laws that you don't like. It is a "Culture of Corruption" that is ingrained into our society and it isn't just Republicans.

[seabeyond]

15. no it isnt. it is knowing that laws can be total bullshit. they said 55

way back when to save lives. gotta go 55. tis the responsible thing to do. how dare you go faster and put yours and all others lives at risk. people knew this was bullshit. osrry we arent zombies that just buy lies being told to dictate what we are suppose to do in life. that we actually call bullshit on things.

55 must be done to save lives

then, on the same roads they change speed to 65, 70 and say this is the safe speed. you go faster and how irresponsible of you to put your life and all others at risk. so the powers that be all of a sudden decide the safeness of 55 on a road is now 70

it isnt corruption. it is an unwillingness to follow a rule just cause some person decides that is what we all need to do because why? they know so much better than the individual that is actually behind the wheel, and KNOWS what is safe and what is not. the individual that is quite capable of deciding in life the choices and decisions that have served them well for a lifetime. all of a sudden cannot think, they need govt to think for them, like govt is so much more pure and capable than an indiividual.

how bogus your argument, and how baaaa baaaa black sheep it is.

[Jane Austin]

21. Somebody check my math, but if you have to be on the highway an hour

or so longer on a trip, aren't there more cars on the road at the same time?

With more congestion and more cars, and possibly drivers that are more tired, wouldn't the chance of accidents go up?

[seabeyond]

27. i swear it goes up, and i swear that is why the consisented to change

speeds back higher. it never made sense to me, why we were being told we had to do it, and how awful it felt for me to have to go that speed adn how awful i know it felt for many. it was just toooo hard to drive that. creating frustration adn being lulled and as i said, they were disperate in calif to do whatever (even those evil billboards) to wake drivers up, get them to look around. toooo slow. not safe.

there are others that have a slower rythm and 55 feels fine for them. they will never understand what i say, except how uncomfortable it is for them to go a faster 70. i think the norm is a higher speed. i think they are outside the norm. but i am willing to understand there uncomfortable at faster speed and allow them the right road. just arrogant of them to not chose to understand not all can go a mosingly 55.

[hfojvt]

49. I think that is backwards

At higher speed limits, more cars are passing a given point over a fixed amount of time. So higher speed limits increase traffic, because they increase the flow rate. It also requires higher speeds for entering and exiting and that is where the gas is wasted - in fast accelerations and using the brakes more. You need to drive 360 miles before you save an hour at 55 vs. 65. (although in actuality at the first speed limit people are driving 65 and with the 2nd they are driving 75).

[Jane Austin]

53. But if there are a fixed number of people from Austin going, say, to the

OU game in Dallas, they would be on the road 30 minutes less (At the least. doesn't count needing an extra bathroom stop.)

So , if there were 20,000 people making that trip, there wouldn't be more people passing a particular spot, would there?

[benEzra]

71. Actually, that's incorrect...

At higher speed limits, more cars are passing a given point over a fixed amount of time.

Actually, that's incorrect. If the number of people making a trip is the same regardless of the speed limit, then the SAME number will pass a given point in a given time. BUT, the cars will be more spread out at 70 than at 55, and there will be fewer cars on the road at any given time.

You are assuming a fixed traffic density (which would result in more cars passing a point at a given time at the higher speed), but that can't happen unless more people are making the trip when the speed limit is raised.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. No.

The number of cars passing a given point in period of time is dictated by cars per hour, not their velocity.

Given equal levels of traffic between point "a" and point "b" each morning from 7:00 to 8:00 a
slower speed will mean more cars occupy each mile of road.

Safer? More dangerous? I don't know, but I suspect human nature makes a slower speed limit more dangerous because of the aformentioned congestion combined with the reality that the differential between the fastest drivers and the slowest is greater in an area with an unrealistically slow legal limit.

Speed doesn't kill, delta-V does.

[hfojvt]

85. well I am assuming a fixed density

but I am missing the point where traffic density is an inverse function of speed. Because it still seems the opposite to me. Suppose I am driving 20 on an interstate (even though that is illegal) if the rest of the traffic is going 80, then every car that is less than a mile behind me is going to pass me in the next minute. If, however, the rest of the traffic is only going 50, then only the cars that are less than half a mile behind me are going to pass me in the next minute.

Okay, clearly a car that is going 20 mph is going to take 3 minutes to go a mile. Therefore if the rate of vehicle entrance is the same there will be more cars in that mile than if the car was going 30. Thus a lower speed will mean higher traffic density. However, it seems to me that the rate of vehicle entrance is also a function of speed and will be reduced if the speed limit is reduced. If your entrance ramp is a mile long that will serve as an example. Thus a slower speed will increase the amount of time it takes to traverse that entrance ramp thereby reducing the rate of vehicle entrance. That rate will also depend on the speed limits of the tributary roads. A higher speed limit means that cars are getting from 435 to 29 faster. Traffic density is never reduced with higher speeds because there is a seemingly infinite supply coming out of Kansas City and points south.

I do not think you can assume an equal level of traffic because there are always non-commuters on the road. As far as unrealistically low speed limits. I cannot say if people were driving slower before since I never drove in the cities when the limit was 55. A 30 mile commute is only shortened by 9 minutes from 75 to 55. If a lower speed limit reduces the amount of accidents and subsequent delays and bottlenecks and increases gas mileage it will actually be a net saver of time for commuters. The ones it hurts are the truckers or tourists trying to drive across SD or NE in less than a day. But 55 is already the law in most urban areas. It is just widely ignored.

[lumberjack_jeff]

93. Don't make it too complicated.

Think of it in terms of water flow through a pipe. To pass more gallons in the same amount of minutes, the velocity must increase. More velocity means more carrying capacity. (granted the analogy has limits - a pipe, like a highway, has a maximum capacity)

[jbnow]

100. To be on the road an hour more

at 55 rather than 65 would be a very long trip. over 500 miles. Those are not too common, though they happen.

These debates always surprise me.

Most of us sound like cheney when he was asked about smaller cars to save gas. He claimed that wasn't the American lifestyle.

When we are looking at something that would decrease fuel use by 20% we're saying no, we like to go fast.

[benEzra]

105. The vast majority of automobile fuel used in the USA

is burned in slow-moving, stop-and-go traffic. Reducing the speed limit from 70 to 55 will NOT cut fuel consumption by 20%; I'd be surprised if it even cut it by 5%.

My car is pretty big, and the difference in fuel consumption at 70 vs 55 on a THOUSAND-MILE trip is 4.76 gallons (30 mpg vs. 34). For a Corolla, the difference might be around 2.2 gallons for a thousand-mile trip. Not a big difference. But there's a HUGE difference between getting to your hotel at 11pm, and being still on the road at 1 in the morning...

[ecstatic]

12. We already have speed limits

I believe on our Interstate the speed limit is around 55/60, although hardly anyone actually goes that slow. I'm sorry but 55/60 mph is an unreasonable speed in cities like Atlanta where everything is at least 30 minutes away.

[Cooley Hurd]

13. I drive for my occupation, and I'm salaried...

The faster I can drive (and get away with it), the sooner my work day is over.

That said, I'm in favor of lowering the limits back to 55, for fuel conservation, as well as ecological reasons.:thumbsup:

[phylny]

41. I, too, drive all day long for my work. I always drive the speed limit,

which around here is 65 on most highways, and 20-35 on most side streets.

I do it because 1) I figure I drive so much, that my exposure to get tickets is increased and 2) because I drive so much, my exposure to having an accident is increased.

If there are three lanes, I generally choose the middle one. If there are two, I drive in the right, and use the left to pass. Many an idiot goes cruising past me going 80 or more. I hope they make it on time or early to whatever it is that's so important.

[benEzra]

72. Nobody's making you drive 70 mph...

so drive 55 if you want to. But please don't try to force that choice on everyone else...

My wife and kids (7 and 5) have to travel 150 miles each way at LEAST once a week for my son's medical therapies and appointments at our state's leading children's hospital. A lot of that stretch is 65 or 70, THANK GOD. They are fatigued enough when they get home as it is...having to leave a half hour earlier and get home a half hour later every single time due to a 55-mph limit would be a BIG deal for them...

I also have to take my son on a 1700-mile round trip every 4 months for a clinical trial he's in, through which he gets access to a medication (cisapride) he absolutely has to have. Most of the drive is on rural interstates in SC, Georgia, and Alabama (mostly I-20 and I-85), where traffic is generally sparse and runs 75 to 80. Lowering the speed to 55 would have us still on the road at 12 or 1 in the morning, instead of getting to our hotel by 11 or so. No thanks...

My car is pretty big, but gets steady-state mileage of 30 mpg at 70 mph and 27.5 at 80, and not a whole lot better than that (35-ish) at 55. The difference between 30 and 35 mpg over a THOUSAND MILES is only 4.76 gallons of fuel. If you drive a smaller, more efficient car (Corolla, Civic, Prius) the difference will be even smaller--the difference between 45 and 50 mpg is only 2.2 gallons per thousand miles.

[Dogmudgeon]

14. More opportunity for punishment

It's not the speed limit that's "all fired objectionable", it's what is done with it.

Of all the means available to reduce fuel consumption and/or improve highway safety, decreasing the speed limits is among the least effective -- but it is an extremely effective method to raise revenues, which are in short supply after years of Republican economic malpractice.

Moral entrepreneurship is popular. It allows the state to raise money with far less complaint than taxation causes, and giving people another means to elevate themselves morally has always been popular. We liberals seem to be hankering for a few of the "spanking rights" that the conservatives have claimed for themselves. But if we're serious about reducing the problems of owning 300 million automobiles, ticketing and lecturing are NOT effective methods to use.

For instance, mandating higher CAFE standards, demanding better engineering of smaller cars, and taxing fuel to pay for mass transit, all are better ways to reduce energy consumption. And tasking cops to aggressively patrol for drunk, sleep-deprived, drugged, and impulsive drivers is a better way to make the roads safer, far more than ticketing speeders.

The temptation for official mischief is also great. I've done a lot of driving on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and I-95, and I've noticed that by far the most speed traps have been placed near the ramps connecting the poorer areas. Some of it is institutional racism, and some of it is legal classism -- poorer people and minorities lack the ability to fight their tickets in court, and when they do, they encounter much more bias.

I've written at some length on this on Energy/Environment, and some of my posts can be found in my DU Journal.

I do not want this to turn into a firefight, as often happens. For some reason, merely opposing national speed limit restrictions makes some of my fellow liberals "go ballistic". I merely ask that the efficacy and liberality of a national program of ticket-and-fine be given more scrutiny. Ripping off millions of drivers to save a small amount of energy -- and thinking that the problems have been solved -- isn't my idea of a liberal program.

--p!

[Jane Austin]

28. I found out the hard way that the Interstate Highways in Tarrant County

(Ft. Worth) Texas have speed limits of 55 or 60.

I was sailing through there on I-35 on my way to Oklahoma City, and figured it had dropped from 70 to 65 when I was pulled over. There was little traffic, and I was genuinely perplexed as to why I was pulled over.

This was just a couple of years into Bushonomics, and I realized right away that Ft. Worth needed the fines that must have been pouring in from this unexpected low speed limit.

[hfojvt]

42. I think that is a myth

When they talked about raising the speed limits from 55, they said "not as many people will speed at the higher speed limits". That is pure crap. I have always driven speed limit +5 and I still get blown off the road at the higher speed limits. The exception is city traffic. In places like Des Moines, Iowa (if I can call that a city) the traffic is too hellacious at speed limit +5. That is where the speed limit is 55 and nobody pays any attention to that fact. So I ignore it too and drive at 70 which is about the flow of traffic. I still get passed far more often than I pass others. Nor have I ever seen any attempt at enforcement.
But I do not believe that higher speed limits has reduced the number of speeders, nor that a speed limit of 65 in Des Moines would do so any more than it has done so in rural Iowa.

[xchrom]

16. lower the speed limit. 55 saves lives and fuel.

[seabeyond]

18. i dont believe the rumor 55 saves lives. i dont believe it at all

i believe when they dropped it to 55 between the frustration, and the slowness of 55 on these long stretch of roads in the west that really it caused more accidents. prove me wrong.

[xchrom]

22. yeah i don't buy it.

55.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. 75-80 Is Good For Me Highway. Rural Is Ok As Is I Guess.

No way I'm doin 60 on a highway though unless it's raining. 75-80 is a good safe pace for me, but it would be safer if slow people stopped gettin in my way LOL

[seabeyond]

29. there are roads the feel doesnt fit speed. we have one outside of town

it is 70. i cant hardly get the speed up to that. i speed everywhere, but on this particular road 70 feels toooo fast. i am wary of that road. many accidents. i like to go fast, always go fast, but i drive on feel. and sometimes a road doesnt feel like i should go as fast as posted. doesnt happen often. but i am not going to drive a speed the govt tells me to, agaisnt what i feel is safe. i trust me more than i trust a govt dept

[trixie]

24. What? Give up doing 70 on I-94?

Not a chance. We like our high speeds in the Motor City.

[salin]

57. Heh - ya'll drove 70-75 when the speed limit *was* 55.

Even back then, the 'slow lane' was 70. (I drove daily between A2 and Detroit for a number of years)

[Toucano]

79. Bingo!

The only time anyone went 55 was if a cop was visible, and even then it wasn't absolute.

[Buns_of_Fire]

25. Some of us are Turtles, some are Rabbits.

Me, I've become content with my new role as Turtle. I'll be the one hanging around the right lane of the interstate, going somewhere around whatever speed limit there is. It doesn't bother me one bit when a Rabbit passes me (hopefully on the left) going 80+. They've got their comfortable zone, I've got mine, and I just hope we've both got enough sense to stay out of each other's way.

*sniff* Can't we all just get along? :cry:

[seabeyond]

30. you are sooooo good. you are right on.

this is jsut it. i feel strongly about this. i love to drive. i do often. three decades no accidents. i have learned a tad myself. and i couldnt agree iwth you more. jsut doesnt behoove us, even for oil, to make a rabbit be a turtle. not gonna work.

just as i dont expect a turtle to be a rabbit. wouldnt ask them to be. would put me in damger and would be hell for them to drive like that. why would i want their life hell anymore than wanting my life hell on the road where comfort is jsut oo importantly wrapped up in safety

[Big Kahuna]

26. Yeah, we can never have enough restrictions on personal liberty

Maybe we should have maditory jail time for not wearing your seatbelt?

[sweetheart]

36. 95mph is much quicker

I don't agree with any speed limits, rather
"a safe speed", and if you don't get in crashes,
and whatever speed you travel, then pick a
speed that works for you.

Sometimes its fun to go fast, cuz that's the
right thing to do, and other times slow, cuz
that's the right thing to do. The law defies
that human beings have common sense.

Drive whatever speed is right.

[alarimer]

54. I don't know what is so hard about following the speed limit

Whether it is 55 or 65 or 70. As I recall, the 55 mph was set to conserve fuel; I am not sure that would still be as effective with today's engines. But I don't know. I tend to follow the speed limits, whatever they may be (having learned my lesson the hard way). Tailgaters be damned; they can just go around if they're in such a hurry.

[Greyhound]

60. My car gets the best highway mileage @ 65 - 70. n/t

[B Calm]

89. I don't believe it. For one, you are constantly slowing down

and speeding up.

[ReadTomPaine]

62. Return of the Anti Destination League

The bitter truth some refuse to accept is that driving is a SKILL. Some are gifted, most aren't. If you aren't, then know your limitations and stay out of the way, off the road or take a pair of scissors to that license, clip it in two and stay on the bus. Don’t force others to perform at your level.

Speed is less a problem than driver training, we have some of the lowest standards for license acquisition in the western world. For every speeder, there is a matching ‘human traffic cone’ puttering in the left lane, a person who refuses to use their signals (I have yet to meet a person who uses them consistently, tho all claim to), a person who doesn’t maintain their vehicle properly, a person who runs lights and signs, a person who refuses to use mirrors or turn their head to check lanes before a change, a person who has no idea how to drive their manual transmission car, etc.

Every one of the latter is more dangerous than driving over the limit, particularly in a responsible fashion in a high performance automobile. Most people who drive over the limit are never even noticed, just the small percentage that unfortunately do it recklessly. Those reckless drivers often have every driving habit mentioned above as well, yet it’s the speed that gets singled out for hostility, often by people snacking on burgers with hot coffee cups between their legs – disasters waiting to happen.

In fact, the most dangerous places to drive are heavily populated city centers, where speed is rarely a factor. You are far more likely to be hit by another car driven by an inattentive operator blowing a red light or similar in Manhattan than you are driving on the Thruway to get into the city. Furthermore, that altercation is far more likely to cause a road-rage style reaction – bloody fights caused by traffic accidents in cities are quite commonplace, largely because the cause for such accidents is clear driver ineptitude on someone’s part.

So the next time you turn your nose up at a speeder, pay attention. Is it the speed, or poor driving habits that upset you? If it’s the latter (tailgating, cutting off, rude gestures etc) those have nothing to do with speed. If it’s the former, shut up and stay out of the way or attend a proper driving academy and get over your phobia. Both you and I will be glad you did.

[maveric]

64. I get the same mileage goinf 70 than I do at 55.

So what the point? Just keep people from getting to they need to get faster?
I drive 70-85 on SoCal freeways. Most of the time with cruise control on. I stay in the "fast lane" and courteously slow down if someone is going slower in front of me. I pass them and resume to what I find to be a safe and efficient speed. No harm no foul.
As long as you maintain a steady speed, you wont burn as much gas. Lowering the limit to 55 is just DUMB!

[benEzra]

67. HELL NO!!!

I don't know where you live, but around here we have roads (wide, VERY lightly traveled, visibility in excess of 2 miles on a clear day) that would be safe with a speed limit of 100. It's posted at 70, and the police will pull you over if you exceed 80. Few if any fatalities occur on that road. Most of our fatalities occur at intersections and on two-lane roads posted at 55. The same is true nationally; very few fatalities occur on the highest-speed-limit roads.

55 is a reasonable speed for a twisty two-lane. It is NOT a reasonable speed for rural roads in North Carolina or Alabama, and a senator or congressperson from Hawaii or Rhode Island has absolutely no business telling traffic engineers in NC or AL what speed needs to be posted on a given highway.

If you want to drive 55, fine; just make sure YOU obey the law and stay in the right lane...

[LSdemocrat]

70. Only if the limit is 75

Of course I'm going to drive 75 regardless of the posted speed limit anyway.

[Walt Disney]

73. Forgive me, for I have read but cannot find in the

Constitution, where the fedgov has been given the power to set speed limits. Can you?

[nolabels]

77. They will let SCOTUS rule it in the commerce clause if ever challenged

The Constitution and many of the other things in the federal are becoming the enemy of the general populous by a malevolent and overreaching interpretation that increasingly skirts the intent of many of the most basic of laws.

[Walt Disney]

101. You are probably right, my friend.

After all, ninety percent of what the fedgov does is unconstitutional, so who's going to say anything about a little speed regulation?

[mitchum]

74. Maybe advances in penis enhancement surgery will help curb...

"The need for speed"

[Codeine]

78. Ugh. That's very offensive.

Akin to saying "If we had mandatory hysterectomies we'd have fewer hysterical whiners."

Besides, women speed just as much as men.

[mitchum]

90. Is it as offensive as calling speeders "inconsiderate assholes"?

because THAT is what they are

[Codeine]

95. That's fine.

But don't bring some bullshit pop-psyche commentary about penis size or whatever obviously sexist nonsense you were on about.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

81. I drive fast. I don't have a penis.

Nor do I drive fast to make up for my lack of a penis.

[B Calm]

87. Have you ever wonder why you're in a hurry?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

98. I drive what is safe for the road conditions and vehicle.

I'll drive about 70-75 in my jeep max. That's what feels safe for the Jeep. I'm not an asshole about it. I won't tailgate unless you're slow in the left lane and I use my signals. If road conditions are crappy, I'll drive under the speed limit. I'm not some idiot speeding along in a snowstorm because I have 4WD. If it's not a safe speed then I won't do it.

In the Saab, in good road conditions with very little car traffic, I can easily do 90mph. The car is meant for higher speeds and it's safer at higher speeds (extremely responsive handling). It also gets optimum gas mileage at about 80mph. German engine=tuned for the autobahn.

Some drivers are fucking unsafe idiots at 55mph. They should learn how to drive and stay to the right.

[B Calm]

99. I drive an 18 wheeler for a living. From what I have seen

most if not all unsafe drivers are the ones in a hurry and suffering with road rage at people doing the speed limit!

[benEzra]

104. I've rarely seen people mad at a slow driver obeying the law

and driving in the RIGHT LANE. It's the people with the cruise set at the posted limit, driving in the left lane in formation with somebody in the right lane, whether out of ignorance or malice, that gets most people's goat, IMHO.

Or the guy driving 65.1 mph passing a long line of cars going 65.0 mph, with a thousand yards of blocked traffic behind them... Or an 18-wheeler trying to pass another on a long uphill on an Interstate, the one in the left lane going 0.25 mph faster than the other, as they both slow down to 5 mph under the speed limit...or the dump truck or semi that jumps into the left lane at a 4-lane stop light, thereby forcing everyone behind him to accelerate at his snail's pace...aargh...

Eastern NC is the world's worst place (well, second-worst) for clueless left lane squatters. A lot of people seem to think the left lane is reserved for their personal use, and if they are driving the posted speed then they are entitled to sit in the left lane all day. Especially if they're driving an SUV and talking on a cell phone...

[dysfunctional press]

88. what does penis size have to do with driving speed?

what an idiotic statement.

how does it apply to women who speed?

[mitchum]

91. No more than buying a big vehicle or any other compensatory action

[Codeine]

96. Good fucking god!

Ever look at one of those enormous landwagon SUVs hauling ass down the freeway at 85mph? Who is driving 80% of the time? A woman, that's who. Take your sexist penis compensation crapola and stick it where it belongs.

If anybody made even halfway similar remarks about the anatomy or sexual inadequacies of women on this board they'd be tombstoned before the electrons had a chance to cool.

[B Calm]

83. Employers need to STOP paying truck drivers by the mile, and

give them a good hourly wage.

[RebelOne]

84. Apparently, no one here has driven on I-75 or 285

around Atlanta. No one drives the speed limit. You can be driving 75 mph and still have people tail-gating you.

[B Calm]

86. Atlanta is one of the most dangerous cities to drive in. Trust

me I know this to be a fact. If everybody would just slow down, it would be one hell of a lot safer. It's not just Atlanta, it's everywhere. People are in a hurry and they don't know why...

[bullwinkle428]

97. Chicago is no picnic, either - I'm there a number of times each year, as

it's not a long drive from my home in eastern Iowa, and I'm amazed at how many vehicles pass me when I'm going 10 mph over the limit. That really doesn't bother me as much as some of the incredibly aggressive moves some of the drivers make. I guess they don't worry too much about enforcement/tax collection with all of the tollways in the metro area.

[B Calm]

102. I drive an 18 wheeler in Chicago three days a week, tell me about it.

CHICAGO SUCKS big time for driving!!!

[benEzra]

103. I spent a lot of time in Atlanta back in the "Drive 55" days...

it was worse then than it is now, trust me. Traffic really moves out on 285, but it did back then, also...

[LSK]

92. its not about ego, or having fun speeding, its about TIME

55 * 8hrs = 440 miles

65 * 8hrs = 520 miles

75 * 8hrs = 600 miles

People trying to drive somewhere on vacation, truckers, busses, etc all need time to get where they are going.

How many here have never driven anywhere but are proposing 55 mph???

[Jose Diablo]

94. I Can't Drive 55- Sammy Hagar

One foot on the brake and one on the gas, hey!
Well, there's too much traffic, I can't pass, no!
So I tried my best illegal move
Well, baby, black and white come and touched my groove again!
Gonna write me up a 125
Post my face wanted dead or alive
Take my license, all that jive
I can't drive 55! Oh No!
Uh!
So I signed my name on number 24, hey!
Yeah the judge said, "Boy, just one more...
We're gonna throw your ass in the city joint"
Looked me in the eye, said, "You get my point?"
I said Yea!, Oh yea!
Write me up a 125
Post my face wanted dead or alive
Take my license, all that jive
I can't drive 55!
Oh, yea!
I can't drive 55!
I can't drive 55!
I can't drive 55!
I can't drive 55!
Uh!
-solo-
When I drive that slow, you know it's hard to steer.
And I can't get get my car out of second gear.
What used to take two hours now takes all day. Huh!
It took me 16 hours to get to L.A.
Gonna write me up a 125
Post my face wanted dead or alive
Take my license, all that jive
I can't drive 55!
No, no no,
I can't drive...
(I can't drive 55!)
I can't drive...
(I can't drive 55!)
I can't drive 55!