Not All See Video Mockery of Zarqawi as Good Strategy

[TomInTib]

This was posted last night by DeepModemMom but it is worth a repost.
Of course he was fumbling with the weapon, it's a stupid effing S.A.W., one of ours that is difficult to use even for those with training. Ask anyone who's ever used one. Ask anyone who served in Vietnam about guys who were shot trying to un-jam M-16s.

Not All See Video Mockery of Zarqawi as Good Strategy
By C. J. CHIVERS
Published: May 6, 2006

An effort by the American military to discredit the terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi by showing video outtakes of him fumbling with a machine gun — suggesting that he lacks real fighting skill — was questioned yesterday by retired and active American military officers.

The video clips, released on Thursday to news organizations in Baghdad, show the terrorist leader confused about how to handle an M-249 squad automatic weapon, known as the S.A.W., which is part of the American inventory of infantry weapons.

The American military, which said it captured the videotapes in a recent raid, released selected outtakes in an effort to undermine Mr. Zarqawi's image as leader of the Council of Holy Warriors, formerly Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, and suggested that his fighting talents and experience were less than his propaganda portrays. But several veterans of wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, as well as active-duty officers, said in telephone interviews yesterday that the clips of Mr. Zarqawi's supposed martial incompetence were unconvincing.

The weapon in question is complicated to master, and American soldiers and marines undergo many days of training to achieve the most basic competence with it. Moreover, the weapon in Mr. Zarqawi's hands was an older variant, which makes its malfunctioning unsurprising. The veterans said Mr. Zarqawi, who had spent his years as a terrorist surrounded by simpler weapons of Soviet design, could hardly have been expected to know how to handle it....(T)he retired and active officers said the public presentation of the tape did not address elements that were disturbing, not amusing: the weapon was probably captured from American soldiers, indicating a tactical victory for the insurgents. And Mr. Zarqawi looked clean and plump.

"I see a guy who is getting a lot of groceries and local support," said Nick Pratt, a Marine Corps veteran and professor of terrorism studies at the George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies in Germany. "You cannot say he is a bad operator." He added, "People should be careful who they poke fun at."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/06/world/06zarqawi.html

[xchrom]

1. strategery.

[rodeodance]

2. and they mocked him for fighting in tennis shows and later said most

fighters use tennis shoes.

[TomInTib]

3. I wore Converse All-Stars in Vietnam. Those boots will get you killed

Same as that M-249, there's many reasons that no other forces use US-made weapons. The main reason is they don't work very well.

[Pavulon]

8. I trained on the saw

in the ang. It is a belgian design. It is simple 3 part weapon. I could teach a prom queen to assemble, fire, and time it in about an hour. Clearing a jam by operating the bolt, pretty simple.

Like any weapon it has to be clean to work. Gas system was probably very dirty.

A wire brush and clp, problem solved.

You got me on the boots.

[Recursion]

26. I liked the SAW

But I liked the M240G a lot more. Heavy as hell to hump around in the desert (or anywhere else for that matter), but once you place it and fire you're glad you brought it along.

I agree with the guy in the article; it's really, really disturbing to see Zarq. with an M249. Even in combat it's not like losing a machine gun is something that goes unnoticed. Have we started leaving our dead? Have we started leaving their gear?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. It's like poking a wasp nest with a stick that's way too short.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. They just can't decide which Zarqawi they want to portray. One

day he's the most dangerous man in Iraq and has managed to evade capture by U.S. troops despite numerous "close calls" even though he has been supposedly wounded many times, has one leg, and was even reported to be near death at one time.

Now we are expected to believe that he's a bumbling idiot who can't fire an automatic rifle and wears tennis shoes based on outtakes from a video they found? Sure, right.

:eyes:

[Rosemary2205]

6. Zarqawi's insider turned on him?

sorry but I don't believe for one minute of of Zarqawi's inner circle there for the filming would take this "blooper" and send it out to discredit him or even accidentally. IMHO if it's out there it's because Zarqawi wants it out there.

[MADem]

7. Here is why the whole ploy doesn't work

The idea was to make him look like a bumbler, but that was for ARAB CONSUMPTION, really. Insult the manhood, like showing a photo of Saddam in his tighty whities.

But it kicks back on America, because if this guy really IS a bumbler, why haven't we been able to catch this putz???? He's a bumbler on the run, being chased by an enormous cadre of...what? BUMBLERS??

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. My thoughts exactly

It makes US look bad cause we can't catch a fumbling idiot!

Jeez, these guys really don't know how to think things through. of course, we already figured that out.

[Squatch]

10. The M-249 is a very simple weapon to operate

probably the best application of the 5.56 NATO round. Zarqawi is just an idiot.

[MADem]

11. You think the Monkey could operate one?? I rather doubt it

And he heads our Armed Forces!!!

You don't have to be able to fire a weapon when you have willing servants to do it for you. You just have to tell them who you want it aimed at...

[Squatch]

12. Luckily, we have a government where the military is subordinate

to civilian leadership. And, military service, is not, thankfully, a prerequisite for service in executive branch.

Personally, I don't want a president who is a master of arms. I do, however, prefer a president who knows (and practices) immense restraint when employing the armed forces unlike our current Oaf in Office.

[MADem]

20. And likely, the insugents who don't want US in Iraq want a big picture

guy, too, who can marshall the resources to toss out the great shatan!

The stupid psyops effort to portray this putz as ineffective was a bust. All it did was tell us we can't find a dork who can't fire his weapon...and it reminds us that we can't find Osama bin Hidin', either.

And it probably gave aid and comfort to those who don't deal with this guy, but who deal with other insurgency leaders: Look, Abdul, they can't even catch this sneakered clown who can't fire his weapon! Merciful God, they'll NEVER catch us!!!

[Squatch]

22. I agree.

While the video was worth a chuckle or two, it really points to a greater failure of US military policy.

[DefenseLawyer]

13. But isn't it OUR gun?

He may be an idiot, but he has nonetheless apparently been able to take one of our guns and start shooting back at us with it.

[Squatch]

14. What's your point?

We (especially SF) use "their" guns, too.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Al-Qaeda makes guns?

Wow.

[Squatch]

16. Well, "we" don't make the M-249...

but you probably didn't know that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. No I didn't

And that makes me completely unqualified to discuss this asinine pseudo-strategy...:eyes:

Better go read some Tom Clancey so I can be a man and have all that information about guns that would allow me to comment on this. ;-)

[Squatch]

19. If you think that'll help, knock yourself out.

And, BTW, I never commented on your ability to take part in this discussion.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. So he is on par with our Special Forces?

If this on-the-run dead-ender has our gun it means, I assume, that he either took it from one of our guys, stole it from our supplies or was able to buy it or smuggle it into Iraq under our nose. None of those options seems particular encouraging. The fact that our Special Forces are able to procure any weapon they want shouldn't mean this guy can. I am obviously not the military/weapons expert you are, and I defer to that expertise; but to me, bad guys shooting at us with our own guns is less than comforting.

[Squatch]

23. Well, apparently he is a master of unconventional warfare

(although this video shows him in less than stellar military light)

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. He's still alive though, ain't he?

Gotta have something going for him, no?

[Squatch]

28. Yeah...the ineptitude of our intelligence community.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. The entire strategy comes hot and steaming out of DC neocon think tanks

The object: to ridicule an Arab because "shame works differently for those people." To quote the incredibly annoying early 90's white rappers 3rd Base: "Black cats are bad luck/ Bad guys wear black/ musta been a white guy who started all that..."

Oh, and by the way, P.W. Botha gets the big gas face...

[Ksec]

24. The way I see it

Is that theyre only showing the World how incompetent the Americans have become. They cant catch a simple minded bungler who cant even shoot a gun without help?

[countingbluecars]

27. This seems like another "bring it on"

taunt to me.

[spanone]

29. looks deperate and juvenile

[MnFats]

30. I was thinking....somebody's going to say 'Oh, yeah? We'll show you how we

....operate machine guns...."


somewhere, someone is making idiotic policy moves..