Why don't our taxes pay for public fitness centers?

[calmblueocean]

I've been thinking about the nation's obesity epidemic and all the health care problems associated with it lately. Americans need better solutions to help them keep healthy, especially poor Americans who are more likely to be obese. Our taxes pay for public libraries to exercise our brains, why don't they pay for public fitness centers to exercise our bodies? Just like any citizen can go into a library and check out books for free, people ought to be able to go a local fitness center and work out for free.

The challenge is in making this happen. I'd like to hear some of DU's thoughts on the subject. Here's what I imagine so far:

1. The government negotiates prices with manufacturers of exercise equipment and corporate sellers of secondhand exercise equipment. Because the government is negotiating for bulk purchase, equipment prices are reduced by 30% - 50%.

2. Many regions already have schools, community centers, arenas, libraries and other public venues that could also become public fitness centers. The government offers grants for purchase of the equipment for use in fitness centers open to the public.

3. The government also negotiates with the major national fitness chains (YMCA, Bally's, etc.) to determine a new basic level of membership which would be available to any citizen for free, and reimbursed by the federal government. A program is made available for local, independent gyms to get reimbursed for offering a similar level of service.

4. A public website like fitness.gov is established where anyone can type in their zipcode and find the addresses and hours of all public fitness centers in their area. A public service ad campaign is created to raise awareness of it.

Public libraries have been around for hundreds of years, but we haven't until now ever really needed a public fitness center. Work and daily life was exercise enough. Not anymore. I think an investment in a program like this could do more to lower health care costs by preventing them from occurring than almost any other intervention in the health care field. What do you think, DU?

[Warpy]

1. The same reason they don't pay for healthcare

and the same reason they didn't pay for the mandated community based mental health care after deinstitutionalization.

We the people simply don't count.

[valerief]

4. Well, we count as employees to our Corporate Masters and the

fat cats who get rich off us. As least, we count for something. But our actual lives? Nah, they don't count for shit.

[annabanana]

2. England has health centers...

I remember watching "Brittas Empire" (an English sitcom)about one. It was a regular neighborhood institution, like a library...
It looked like a pretty good idea.

[kath]

79. Canada does too, I believe.

At least some areas. Visited a friend's cousin in the Vancouver area years back. They had a neighborhood rec center/community center.

[sweetheart]

3. fitness for office?

Not a bad idea, a meritocracy of sorts... hmmmm..

[Us vs Them]

5. Do you really want to know why?

It's the same reason we're allowed to eat poison in our food. It's cheaper for them if we just die.

[phusion]

6. I like this idea a lot...

recommended.

[Ilsa]

7. Well, we have a fitness center owned and operated by a county

hospital, but there is still membership and fees involved, not really reduced, either, so I think the members pay for it all twice, nonmembers once (through taxes to the hospital district, I suspect).

[rodeodance]

10. and some district schools already have the eqipment to some degree-

and swimming pools, and running tracks. it would be a matter of opening them up to the public. ours does-the pool--but limited hours.

[radwriter0555]

43. You have public parks, the YMCA is VERY cheap, jogging and walking

on public streets is free.

[Ilsa]

47. Our YMCA is so crowded that I know some people don't bother

to go because they get in a workout or into a class when they need to go. If they can't go during the day (and I don't mean lunch) due to work, then they have to compete with the rest of the 9-5 crowd. The early morning isn't as bad, but that doesn't work for my husband because he helps me with our disabled child in the morning.

The parks here are nice, but awfully hot (>100) during the summer.

[calmblueocean]

53. $1200 a year isn't cheap.

A YMCA membership for a family where I live is around $92 a month, plus joiner's fee. Certainly not VERY cheap for the lowest income bracket of the country. And jogging down ice-encrusted sidewalks in the winter is pretty much asking for trouble.

The problem I'm trying to get at here is that those who are most at risk of obesity and morbid obesity are also those most likely to be poor and most likely to be uninsured. And we as a society end up being the ones who pay for their care -- crisis care, the most expensive kind. We pay for it in higher insurance premiums, higher medical costs, more expensive hospital stays and doctor visits. The cost of obesity to America has recently been estimated at $122 billion a year, and I think we can do something about that by empowering the poor (and perhaps even the middle-class) to exercise more.

Several HMOs already subsidize the cost of gym membership because they know it pays dividends by keeping their membershp healthy and preventing chronic disease and expensive hospital stays. We ought to be smart enough to do the same.

[radwriter0555]

65. The reality is that parks aren't profitable for the government. They're a

large, large cost of a municipal budget, and in the USA, the people are the lowest on the list when it comes to budget time.

Sanitation, roads and sidewalks are the largest part of a muni budget, and new parks are almost impossible to come with, especially in an urban environment. A gym-type facility would be opposed due to the amount of upkeep and maintenance and hence the cost it would require. They would have to first buy or lease a building, provide ample parking or make it near public transport.

$1.5 million

It would have to go through the same approval process as a commercially run facility. Then, they'd have to purchase, maintain and install equipment,

$50,000

renovate the facility (using a professional architect) to ensure ADA compliance; there would have to be showers, locker rooms and toilets.

$150,000

Hey, why not a pool?

$250,000

Then, let's look at the annual budget to staff and maintain it for a staff of 4 - 6.

$350,000

So, in reality, to put a gym facility in you're looking at a start up of over $2 million bucks. That's not including the cost of self-insurance, vehicles, etc.

Most cities can't even manage to provide decent animal control services to their constituencies what with how low US taxation is, so the idea of upping your local taxes to provide a fitness facility isn't something that would even make it onto an agenda for approval.

It IS a good idea. It really, really is... but it's not going to happen.

[politicat]

62. YMCA/YWCA is expensive round here.

And we non-christians don't exactly feel welcome.

[kath]

80. YMCA is expensive here, too.

[rodeodance]

8. good idea. How can we put some meat to it? --get it out?

[Quakerfriend]

9. Because the 'Health Care Industry' is the biggest money

making business. Fat cats profit from keeping us dependent on big pharm and etc.

[rodeodance]

11. public parks already exist-for walking/running. Sometimes it only takes

motivation--like have a group to walk with. I always thought officials could coordinate park programs--even something as walk and or run groups that meet on the hour-or whatever. Doing in group seems to be the motivator.

[Obamanaut]

12. There are other ways to become and/or stay fit.

Walking is inexpensive, and incurs no fuel cost to drive to a fitness center.

Push-aways is a good exercise - push away from the table before getting a second helping.

Is this not a way to further expand the governmental intrusion into our lives? Or to expand the already burdensome size of the government, thus increasing my tax liability? Your item #3 is of interest to me. I have bicycles, I have membership in a gym, and I have exercise equipment at home. Before I had these things, I walked and jogged, did push ups and setups - all free. I am unwilling at this stage in my life to have MORE of my tax dollars seized so that there can be subsidized exercise rooms. Your item #5 (I couldn't find #4) also will cost the taxpayer more money through public service ad campaign.

[readmoreoften]

31. oh you poor suburban soul...so put upon...

Maybe if we weren't in Iraq we'd be able to focus on our own citizens. The OP was talking about THE POOR and CHILDREN. In many urban areas, you can't go walking and bike riding. It's dangerous. Kids aren't allowed to go walking off on their own anymore even in the suburbs. How is a neighborhood fitness center "government intrusion into our lives"? Are you also opposed to scary programs like public parks and community centers for the elderly? Garbage delivery service? We could all individually pay for that, too.

They wouldn't even need to take more taxes. They could just shift the money around. Less military spending. Stop funding churches. Stop overpaying Halliburton. Etc.

Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to afford to live in a neighborhood where they can bike and walk, where the weather is temperate all year round.

[Obamanaut]

41. Say what?

I reread the OP. POOR was mentioned once, CHILDREN not at all - or maybe I just missed it - and a reference or two to obesity.

Government intrusion you ask. Will such a program not be funded by tax dollars? Will it not be administered by even more government employees? Indeed, garbage delivery service? I generate my own, and then carry it to one of several central collection points (we do not have curbside pickup in my county) on my bicycle, a 7 mile round trip. Quite healthy, you see. As far as lucky, how do you figure? I live where I do not by the roll of the dice or divine providence. I'm retired from two different jobs.

You mentioned shifting money around. One idea to save a few pennies is rescind the annual pay raise for congress people. How many do you suppose voted against the approximately $30,000 increase this year?

Public parks, by the way, are a good thing. They are in place. They offer an area to run, and jump, and play - for either overweight adults OR children. One can even do push ups and/or sit ups in them. I find them scary not at all, nor community centers for the elderly, of which I am one.

As for temperate, we had several cold days in No. Fla. last winter. One night we even closed the windows. Have a nice day!

[marions ghost]

45. most cities

do not have enough public parks and the newer suburbs usually have none unless they are very exclusive.

[calmblueocean]

48. This should save us money, not cost us.

I think I answered some of your questions here, but the general idea is that the poorest people in America are the most likely to be obese, and that by helping them stay healthy, we save the billions spent on their care due to obesity related illnesses. Many HMOs already subsidize fitness center memberships for their members, and they do it because it saves them money, not out of the kindness of their hearts.

I'm glad that you think public parks are a good idea, since they also are funded by tax dollars, administrated by government employees, and so on. From the way you phrased your earlier replies in the thread, I sort of thought you'd be saying park space was just another example of government picking your pocket. I like parks too, but if they were enough, then we wouldn't have the obesity problem we have today that is ultimately making all our health care and insurance premiums more expensive, as well as putting families at risk.

I asked for feedback from DU because I was hoping for a little more thoughtful analysis than "They already do, they're called 'sidewalks'." I happen to live in Minnesota, where sidewalks are often coated with ice in the winter and many public parks are closed or have limited hours. The snarky response to that is, "Get a pair of snowshoes," but that really doesn't address the problem of enticing and empowering those who are already poor and obese to get exercising and healthy.

The sort of thing I was looking for was perhaps more along the lines of, "Instead of paying for public fitness centers, just offer federal reimbursement for the gym fees for everyone diagnosed as morbidly obese." That's a slightly different approach that might work as well. Or perhaps there are other ideas.

Anyway, thanks for throwing your two cents in the thread as well. You can't learn from people who only agree with you. :) Maybe now you see better where I'm coming from.

[LA lady]

13. think it through

Have you considered how many businesses would fold if they did this? There are many gyms, spas and exercise studios that would have to declare bankruptcy.

My daughter has an aerobics studio, it would destroy her!

[calmblueocean]

15. Why? She would make money by participating in the program.

Her aerobic studio or any public gym could sign up and participate. They'd be reimbursed.

[LA lady]

20. sorry, won't fly here

She would never agree to a government owned studio. The regs would be non stop.

She runs it from a gym they built beside their home, they have no desire to sell.

[calmblueocean]

21. Sigh. No one said the government would OWN it!

She'd be reimbursed by the government. It would still be her private studio, and she'd have more clients because the government would be footing the bill.

[LA lady]

23. no

She has all she can handle now.

[Obamanaut]

25. No, the "government" is not footing the bill, I am. I don't want to

foot any more bills than I already have. Would not this be just another tax increase?

[area51]

14. "Why don't our taxes pay for public fitness centers?"

Why don't our taxes go to pay for universal healthcare? For the same reason:

- we're overpopulated, so it "doesn't matter" if a bunch of us die. If we drop dead on the job, there's plenty more people to take our place.

- we're a barbaric nation that doesn't give a rat's ass if it citizens die due to treatable diseases, no matter we've been paying taxes out the wazoo for years that could've paid for universal healthcare. :mad:

[sbj405]

16. Health and fitness is a $14 bn industry

That's why.

[MichiganVote]

17. We do. Its called a sidewalk and you can use it anytime, anywhere.

[readmoreoften]

32. except if you're poor and living in an urban area...

or a child.. or if you live in a climate that prevents you from walking for 7 months a year.

[MichiganVote]

38. I live in Michigan, I can walk anytime I want to in winter.

Did as a kid too. Oh...and I was poor. Never stopped me or my friends.

[dad]

66. If you'd ever step out of Michigan, you would realize that not everyplace

in the US has sidewalks. MI is just very sidewalk-friendly for whatever reason.

[MichiganVote]

73. Didn't walk on the sidewalks in MI as a kid and now I live int he country

I walk there w/o sidewalks too. But this is silly. If you want a cheap GYM, join the YMCA.

[calmblueocean]

75. How is $1200 a year cheap?

That's what a family membership costs for a year. $92 a month, plus a joiner's fee.

[MichiganVote]

76. Sounds like you'll be using the sidewalk..or the TV exercise programs

;-)

[calmblueocean]

77. Wish you understood the problem here.

It's not about me. It's about saving money by getting the poorest segment of the population, the segment most likely to be obese and uninsured, healthy. If what we had worked, we wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

[MichiganVote]

83. I work among the very low income and while your heart is in the right

place, I can tell you that your plan is very unlikely to succeed. For one thing, most of them lack transportation or gas for their transportation to get to your health place. That means that they save their gas dollars for things they deem important. You also may in interested to know that dollar for dollar and calorie for calorie, most low income families eat high content fat or sugar products b/c the state of fullness stays with them longer than lighter, more healthy foods.

The health issues that most often need to be addressed among the poor are related to addictions, poor hygiene, mental illness, gunshots, bruises and abrasions(usually from assault) and accidental injuries. Whatever health care dollars they have either out of pocket or from public funds usually address these concerns. And public funds seldom cover what is needed.

So, good luck but don't assume I don't understand the issues. I work among the "issues" daily.

[calmblueocean]

84. I don't disagree, but we're still talking about different communities

You're right, of course, that families dealing with violence, addiction, homelessness, etc. have more pressing priorities than exercise. But there's a large segment of low and middle income America that isn't in crisis and would benefit from a program like this. I say middle income, too, because there are many families where both parents work but their salaries are swallowed up by the needs of their kids. Technically, they may be making a middle-class income as a family, but they would find it an irresponsible indulgence to spend $1200 a year to get a membership at their local Y, even though that's actually the single best investment they could make in their children and themselves.

[Finder]

18. Boys and Girls clubs, YMCAs, etc...

receive gov funding and are available to all. Also, as a poster above mentioned, parks, bike trails etc are funded publically.

Look up your local recreation dept. and ask.

[readmoreoften]

33. They shouldn't receive funding.

The YMCA is a horrible homophobic organization. Faith-based funding. AND, it's not inexpensive at all. It's as much to join the YMCA in my area as it is a gym.

[marions ghost]

46. yes

whoever calls the Y membership cheap has never been really hard up for money.

[Dogmudgeon]

19. What? Subsidize bad Disco music?

--p!

[aikoaiko]

22. well, pushup, situps, and running are already free.

but not done. I dount health centers would do much.

[readmoreoften]

34. where do you live?

you can't go running where I live.

[aikoaiko]

52. I've lived everywhere man, I lived everwhere....

seriously, I lived in cities, suburbsm and rural areas and running was done everywhere.

what type of place can't you run?

[nick303]

63. You can't go running in NY NY?

I've been running in several of the neighborhoods.

[Rosemary2205]

24. My community has a public fitness center

Has everything you could ask for - for a nominal fee - Cost us a pretty penny to build

One of the reasons we chose to build it was because the 2 YMCA's that had been open for decades finally ended up closing because they were being sued so often they could no longer afford liability insurance. Payoffs are too often cheaper than legal battles even in frivolous cases. -- the other main reason being maintainance. Not because the building was old, but because the kids were tearing it up faster than they could keep it fixed.


We are beginning to struggle with some vandalism issues but adding more staff and a few cameras seems to be helping nip that. And on the legal side, with support from city and county legal staff it makes it cheaper to fight frivolous lawsuits.

[nuxvomica]

26. I would rather see a tax deduction for fitness equipment

and gym memberships. As well as more public space for walking and biking and a move to close down city centers to vehicular traffic. If we do get universal health care, your suggestion might be a good part of that but I think universal health care, especially for mental illness, needs to come first.

[dysfunctional press]

27. many communities already have them.

it's the kind of thing that works better on a local level, anyway.

[troubleinwinter]

28. Is this satire?

[GrumpyGreg]

29. People can stay fit all on their own without spending a dime.

Why on earth would we need tax supported fitness centers?

[populistdriven]

30. YMCA's cost a fortune to join - why can't fees be tax deductable?

[crispini]

35. They do. It's called "Parks and Recreation" centers.

Most cities have them. For example:

The City's 47 recreation centers offer creative and innovative leisure programs that promote healthier lifestyles and enhance the quality of life for all ages. Conveniently located throughout Dallas, each center offers a variety of traditional recreational activities. These activities include: athletics, sports, summer playground camps, cultural events, and programs that address community concerns such as juvenile violence, wellness, and life management skills.
http://www.dallasparks.org/Facilities/recreation.aspx

What city do you live in that doesn't offer this kind of thing?

[calmblueocean]

39. Many cities have gyms, but they're too expensive for those who need them.

The people most likely to be overweight in this society also happen to be those with the least amount of money. A membership at the Rec Center near me costs about $400 a year, per person. For a middle class family, that could be $1200 a year for two adults and a teenage child. A family that isn't middle class often cannot afford to spend that much to indulge in what feels like a luxurious extravagance to them when they already have so many other urgent needs.

But just like education shouldn't be thought of as an extravagant indulgence, neither should good health. One of the things that got me thinking about this was the fact that our local Rec Center offers discounts for members of participating health plans that pay for almost 2/3 the cost of membership if you work out 8 times a month.

The HMOs aren't doing this to be nice. They're doing it because it actually saves them money. Healthy, active people are less likely to be hospitalized. Of course, the people who really need these discounts, the people who really do need to get in shape because their lives are at risk, are people who don't have insurance at all. And who ends up picking up the tab? We all do. Since we're paying anyway, I think we should follow the HMOs lead and try to lower what we pay. I think we can probably do better, actually.

[wtmusic]

67. So staying fit requires a gym or a Rec center

That's a new one to me.

Staying fit requires not one thin dime. It requires a state of mind that allows you to get on the floor and do some situps and pushups. To run in place if you can't run outdoors. Do jumping jacks.

ALL kinds of excuses for not exercising. This one's pretty far down on the list.

[calmblueocean]

69. More people exercise when they have good facilities to do so.

That's the point.

My largest concern here is getting the poorest segment of society, the segment most likely to be without health insurance and most likely to be obese, to start getting in the habit of exercising, and caring about their body's health. Just sitting there in condemnation isn't going to change anything.

If you missed the point last time around, this is a program that should *save* us money. HMOs that subsidize gym membership do it because healthy people cost less to insure. When someone has a catastrophic medical event like a stroke or heart attack, medical costs go through the roof, sometimes into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. If the person is uninsured, these costs are ultimately passed on to us. If we can intervene and pay a few hundred dollars early on and save a hundred thousand 10 years later, that makes sense to me. We save money and have a healthier nation. Win/win.

[DS1]

36. Why don't people just go for a goddamn walk, maybe bring

back some groceries now and then?

[nashville_brook]

37. tennessee is paying for Weight Watchers for TNcare people

fitness centers partnering with existing services is a great idea.

[applegrove]

40. Sorry - your communities don't have bike paths, batmonton in the

school gym, YM/YWCA's? I thought ya did!!!:hide:

[Blue_Tires]

42. mine do....

parks, bike trails, nature trails, etc....

not to mention a decent local network of community rec centers (for city residents, adult membership is $20 for the entire year)

[flvegan]

44. Let the health insurance industry pay for them.

If they realized the long term benefits of preventative care, they might consider that. Or, rather than have big Humana gyms, let them put it back on the corporations and businesses to offer incentives to them to try to get their employees to a gym or fitness place.

Like this:
Aetna is the provider, and ABC, Inc with it's 250 employees is the target. There's a multitude of gyms, both privately owned and franchised between the office and the homes of the employees. ABC spends X on it's health plan. Aetna makes deals with the gyms, and hands down the idea that if ABC employees log Y number of visits to the gym, then ABC gets 5% off it's quarterly plan bill.

Aetna has the incentive to make the deals, ABC has the incentive to promote the idea of fitness, and the employees (if they foot any of the bill for the health plan) has incentive to go to the gym.

Healthier people, healthier bottom lines for everyone.

[calmblueocean]

50. The ones who need it most are uninsured, and we end up paying for them.

Many health insurance plans already do subsidize fitness center memberships -- that's part of what started me thinking on the subject. My local rec center has discounts for people on Blue Cross and a few other health plans that pay for approximately 2/3 the cost of membership. But the people who are likeliest to be obese or morbidly obese are people who are poor and uninsured. If the health care industry is smart enough to lower their end costs by subsidizing fitness, isn't it smart for us to do the same for the uninsured?

[flvegan]

60. If you subsidize the memberships

to the insurance companies, then you'd naturally lower the membership rates for those without insurance. At least, that's how it would be at the gym I owned.

If that's now how it is where you are, I'd look into that, and blow it up.

BTW, I disagree greatly with the "likeliest to be obese or morbidly obese are people who are poor and uninsured" statement. That's unfounded. I've found, professionally, that insurance carries little or no weight in obesity. I also base this absent of the "BMI" that the government and fitness community falls back upon.

[calmblueocean]

64. hmmmmm

There's lots of evidence that the more you make, the less likely you are to be obese. And the less you make, the less likely you are to have private health insurance. I'm not sure which of these statements you disagree with, but they're both well accepted.

Here's a quote from one paper I picked at random: "In the United States, a steep, inverse gradient exists between socioeconomic status (SES) and obesity rates among white, black, and Hispanic women. In fact, women of lower SES are 50% more likely to be obese than women of higher SES."

Let me see if I understand your insurance proposition, though. You're saying that we should partner up with HMOs and "split" the cost of fitness club membership rates for their customers. Then more people with health insurance would go to the gym, and the gym would lower rates to the uninsured. Is that mostly right? I guess I don't really see why the gyms would decide to lower rates to people without health insurance. If anything, I'd think they'd want to market themselves to people who already do have health insurance, because joining would be essentially free if you had health insurance, while you'd have to pay out of your own pocket if you didn't. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you somewhere, though.

[marions ghost]

49. because that would be

REALLY investing in the health and well-being of the citizens. Our government does not want to do that. Like investing in mass transit, it's just too visionary and radical. You would have to believe the government is on our side.

[calmblueocean]

51. Investing in the health and well-being of the citizens...

That's what it's all about. Thanks for your posts up and down the thread, marions ghost! You get it. :) I'm surprised so many DUers seem to think people working minimum wage can afford gym fees, or that telling people to go jogging on ice-covered sidewalks in the winter is something like a solution.

[marions ghost]

54. thank you

for summarizing this concept in such a clear and positive way.

I've advocated for this for years. We spend so much taxpayer money to deal with illnesses and so many are related to lack of exercise. We could have government subsidy and promotion of fitness centers without it costing taxpayers a penny more. The benefits would far outweigh the costs if the programs were good. The govt could also help low-income people with memberships to existing fitness centers. But I think community sponsored centers with even outdoor facilities such as basketball, jog track etc would be good, modelled after Y's perhaps.

People think of fitness centers as mainly to lose weight. But there are so many other benefits to mental/body health. Exercise is now being prescribed as an important aid in treating depression, for example. From alcoholism to heart disease there's hardly an affliction that it does not help prevent or mitigate. And of course it's also about recreation, even "quality of life." Everybody who DOES exercize KNOWS this. But they don't realize that others don't have equal access.

This is a win/win--but good luck trying to get anyone in government to think in such enlightened ways, unless we can REALLY turn this mess around. This is the kind of proposal that will be scoffed at as we continue to spend billions in Iraq.

But it's the kind of idea we must be ready with, when opportunity arises, when Americans are finally sick and tired of being used and abused.

[Maven]

55. Listen, we DON'T have TIME for RATIONAL SOLUTIONS.

Seriously, though, the reason is that this would be best handled by local government.

[SmokingJacket]

56. I am basically for it, but...

until everyone has basic health care, this is just a frill. There are ways to get exercise for free, and so a gym is nice and makes it more convenient, but it is not a necessity.

Let's put our resources into the foundation -- health care for all -- and build up to programs like this.

I'd way rather my tax dollars went to this than to building nuclear bombs, though.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

57. Good point. I do agree with those who say that you don't need a gym to get

good exercise (walking and running are still classics, and they still work), but I agree with your basic premise, and it would be a good thing in areas where extremes in weather would make exercise outdoors not so feasible for a good part of the year.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

58. Not only gyms, but what is required is a comprehensive program to

address both diet and exercise, with instructors/trainers and courses, including in the schools, and possibly special programs to get an hour of exercise into workplaces (some kind of tax incentives or whatever). There has to be a serious commitment to this however, or else it's just lip service and wasted half hearted effort.

When I was still in the service, there came an edict that there would be an hour of time devoted to exercise, or physical training (PT) every day at each and every command. However, because there was no enforcement of this, and no allowance made to decrease the burden of everything else that had to be done, it was a joke and fell by the wayside, of course. (In the Navy, at least.)

However, when I was in a situation where units of the Army and Marines were stationed or worked alongside us, though, I remember how struck I was by how committed to physical fitness those services were, for some obvious reasons, but this even included medical personnel and such who mostly wouldn't be expected to have to engage in combat. The corporate culture of commmitment to fitness permeated those whole services, and their senior officers were often quite fit, especially in the Marines, whereas in the Navy you'd rarely see this.

[nicknameless]

59. The * cabal would undoubtedly love to give $$$ to Curves.

http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2004/05/19/curves/index.html?pn=2

[politicat]

61. Mine do. Parks and Rec.

Most counties have at least parks, where people can walk, run, hike, play tennis, soccer and softball, etc. My city and county also have community rec centers.

However, the rec center requires additional fees that are at least as expensive as using a privately owned fitness center, though the rec center has a sliding scale that the privately owned center does not have. And the rec center has a pool, if you're into that chlorinated water thing.

[Dr Fate]

68. There plenty of parks & community centers- more would be great.

n/t

[kath]

81. Might be true in civilized (blue) states, but out here in Red State Hell

they're few and far between and have very limited programming.

[Yollam]

70. Better question - why does WIC only pay for cheese, eggs,juice other junk?

No fresh veggies at all...


Here in Japan, they do have such public fitness centers - anyone can use them for a small fee.

[IronLionZion]

71. I'd rather invest in more pedestrian-friendly communities

Trying to walk anywhere in our sprawling unplanned suburbs is often a matter of hoping you don't get hit by a car today. It would be nice to see more sidewalks and crosswalks, and to have them maintained and get the snow removed and so on. I suppose urban areas would need to be made safer for children to walk in. And rural areas are probably very low on the list but rural America could use some sidewalks too.

Cutting down on driving hits two birds: fitness and oil consumption. Public schools already let people use stuff like the track and tennis courts where I come from.

[entanglement]

72. Public fitness centers might help somewhat

but the obesity epidemic is (largely) a result of poor dietary habits and, sad to say, plain old gluttony.

[tabasco]

74. Because we live in a plutocracy.

The government doesn't work for us anymore.

It works for the giant corporations.

[MsTryska]

78. What do you think we are? Communists?!

[maxsolomon]

82. why don't taxes pay for SIDEWALKS?

DRIVING to the gym to become a gerbil on an exercise wheel because there's nowhere to do it outside your front door. Absurd.