Teacher tortures Hispanic kids for missing on May 1

[Horse with no Name]

This makes my blood boil.:mad:
This teacher needs to be fired. Plain and simple.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/050906dnmetfwteach.208a9754.html

>>>>>snip
Some parents of the students at T.A. Sims Elementary School said teacher Jan Shannon chastised their children for missing school on May 1. She made them sit outside in the sun and read for two hours without water or bathroom breaks, several parents said. They also allege that the teacher called the students derogatory names, including one that refers to those who crossed the border illegally.
>>>>>snip
"My daughter didn't go to school on Monday. She stayed home to work on a project" with a classmate, Aracelia Moreno said. "When they turned the project in on Tuesday, they were told they'd get zeroes because they missed school – even though the project was due on Wednesday."

Ms. Moreno said her daughter, Zayra Moreno, was told she would receive a zero "because they went to the stupid marches."
>>>>snip
Another parent, Virginia Aranda, said she was furious when she learned what happened after picking up her daughter, Adda Garza, from school that day and noticing the girl's sunburned face. She was even more angry when Adda told her that the teacher used a derogatory term several times
>>>>snip
Ms. Aranda said she was told one student's nose began bleeding and her head was aching while outside. The students tried to tell the teacher, but she made them return outside, Ms. Aranda said.

[RagingInMiami]

1. Ah, but it's not about racism

It's only because they're ILLEGAL

[MercutioATC]

22. I didn't see anything in the article saying that the students were illegal

Sounds like yet another idiot teacher to me...

[LWolf]

47. Yet another???

What a great buy-in to the media anti-public ed/teacher hype.

The number of people who slip through all the testings, performance observations and screenings with their abusive dysfunctions is quite small. The vast majority of teachers are caring, dedicated, and do not abuse their charges.

Can you guess what I do for a living? I'm offended by the "yet another idiot teacher" remark. In my years as a student, I attended 10 schools in 2 states K-12 and then 8 colleges and universities. In that time period, I met one teacher that I think was incompetent. One. And he wasn't abusive.

In my years as a parent, having raised two adult sons, I experienced a total of 3 incompetent teachers, K-12 between the two of my boys. Two of them had problems with treating kids with respect; one in first grade, one in 9th.

In two and a half decades spent working in large public schools, I've known 5 teachers I thought needed new professions due to attitude problems.

That leaves 9 teachers out of about 350. About 2.6%. Just my experience, yet not really different from the many people I've talked to, educators and parents, in many states. Yet I'm not reading about all those other teachers doing their jobs, not in the msm and not here at DU. I'm reading about "yet another," as if they were sprouting like spring grass.

This teacher needs some consequences, no doubt; and, no doubt, will get them. I'd look further than the teacher, while I was at it. When a teacher exhibits that kind of attitude, and uses those words, it may spring from unspoken administrative/district attitudes.

[treestar]

48. Why must you be offended? We are to ignore idiot teachers

being idiotic, just because you can't get that if someone says that one or more teachers is an idiot that doesn't mean they all are?

[LWolf]

91. Since you asked,

I'll be happy to respond. Why must I be offended? It's not about what I don't "get." I am aware that teachers, being part of the human population, come with all the glorious gifts and flaws that all people do.

I was responding to the "another" classification. I thought I made that clear. Why?

I'm a teacher. I've spent 25 years in the public ed system, and I've watched as the general public bought into right-wing propaganda designed to destroy public ed, and my profession along with it.

Having spent 2 1/2 decades in the system, I can discuss all the flaws, dysfunctions, and incompetencies; I know what works, what doesn't and why, what could work given the chance, and why that chance isn't going to be given. I'd love to focus the national conversation on authentic school reform and improvement, but I can't. I'm talking to myself. The nation has bought the propaganda, and can't see past the propaganda to get to that place.

It's a right-wing strategy to paint public schools as failed and teachers as incompetent. It's part of the effort to do away with the Dept of ed, privatize education and put it, and the dollars involved, under corporate control, and control curriculum and instruction for all, so that they can condition obedient future voters.

When an incompetent person makes it into the teaching ranks, I'll be the first to suggest that they be counseled out of the profession. I don't think it helps anything to focus our conversation on the few, exaggerating it to make it seem as though incompetence or abuse is common, when it isn't. So I object to the "another" characterization, which implies that there are many, rather than few. And feeds directly into the right-wing propaganda that has helped weaken our school system.

This is teacher appreciation week. How about some appreciation for the large majority of teachers who do everything within the time and resources they are given to serve their students? When a teacher deserves criticism, criticize him or her without the broad brush. Just a little perspective.

[MercutioATC]

53. Didn't mean it that way...ANY profession has its idiots.

This teacher sounds like one. We seem to hear about them from time to time, just as we hear about people in other professions who obviously aren't cut out to do what they do.

Sorry if it came across differently.

[LWolf]

88. That I can agree with.

While, being a teacher, I wouldn't call them idiots, having spent so much time insisting that kids not call each other names. ;)

There are some people who are less evolved than others, who seem to use fewer of the brain cells they possess. They are here in the general population, so some of them can be found in all professions.

Anyone whose idea of making a point to kids is to sit them out in the sun for an extended period without water, and to publicly put them down, is working from a power deficit, imo. Bullies are those who are insecure, who lack empathy for others and don't value themselves, and are constantly having to "prove" power over others. How are bullies created? A bigger question than this post can deal with. I certainly agree that bullies don't belong in school, adults or students.

[Horse with no Name]

82. I agree

I would like to think that this particular teacher is an exception to the rule--not the rule.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

89. I think your experience has been somewhat better than average.

In three schools, I encountered at least three teachers (out of maybe 40 or 50 in total) who should clearly never have left the profession a long time ago (although in fairness one of those was incapable of doing her job partly for medical reasons rather than incompetence). I think 5-10% is probably a more accurate figure than 3.5%.

Also, even if we assume 1%, and that 1 person in 3,000 is a teacher (almost certainly both vast underestimate), that would still be 1000 completely incompetent teachers in America - more than enough to justify "yet another".

It is arguably regretable that incompetent teachers make the news more often than competent ones, but it's inevitable, and the same in all walks of life - the rarer something is, the more newsworthy.

[LWolf]

92. It's true that

my experience isn't all. Mine is unusual, though, in that the average student doesn't attend 10 schools K-12 or 8 colleges. That means that my experience was spread over a larger pool of teachers than most.

It's also true that negative is more newsworthy than positive, and unusual is more newsworthy than commonplace. Our discussion of that news might want to reflect that.

[ThomCat]

56. I hope you're being sarcastic.

[RagingInMiami]

63. I am being very sarcastic

[ThomCat]

65. Oh good.

:)

[Kerrytravelers]

2. As a teacher, this behavior is reprehensible. I am speechless.

I hope a firing is in order. This "person" should not be allowed near children. Ever.

[AndyTiedye]

9. That Was Child Abuse. Firing Is Not Nearly Enough

[Horse with no Name]

11. Exactly right.

IF any of these children's parents did this, you can bet the farm that CPS would be knocking on their door.

[Kerrytravelers]

17. You're right. I only mentioned firing. but if they want to string her up

in the rown square by her toes, upside down in the hot Texas sun, I'd be cool with that, too.

[Cobalt Violet]

50. WTF? n/t

[gerrilea]

20. As an adult who was abused as a child...this is truly nothing close to..

Reality...people who claim this to be child abuse haven't experienced it!

How about being beaten with a broom so badly that the broom handle breaks while you are bleeding from previous hits..

Or..being beaten and then thrown, literally through a wall, then beaten more...

Or being forced to eat a piece of paper while being sat upon by your 240 # 6'2" father with his knee on your chest...

Now, by my standards that's child abuse...BEING FORCED TO READ A BOOK OUTSIDE FOR TWO HOURS IS NOT CHILD ABUSE...

[readmoreoften]

42. In 100 degree Texas heat in the sun?

Without water and while being called derogatory names by an authority figure? It is abuse.

Abuse isn't a competition. So if the broom handle doesn't break, is it not abuse?

I'm sorry for what you've suffered, but that doesn't justify this behavior.

[laheina]

44. There are differences of degree and kind in abuse.

There is sexual, there is physical, there is psychological, there is neglect, etc. Some abusers use one or all of these methods.

Obviously you know this, and the severity of what you have experienced is far beyond this.

This is, however, a case of a teacher using her authority over her physical custody of these children in a manner that qualifies easily as neglect. Perhaps her punishments were even abusive in a passive aggressive manner? But the using of racial epithets should easily get her fired. SHOULD, but I won't hold my breath.

[skygazer]

57. Wow, I never realized it was a contest

So only people who are abused at the level you were or worse can be considered abused?

I'm sorry you suffered abuse but you have no monopoly on it. Abuse can take many forms and in my opinion, the fact that these kids were publicly humiliated, demeaned by their teacher in front of their peers and then forced to sit outside in very hot weather for 2 hours without either water or bathroom breaks is indeed a form of abuse. It's attitudes like yours that make people reluctant to come forward because they feel they didn't "suffer enough."

[Dora]

61. Gee. All those years of abuse and you have no compassion.

My husband survived his childhood and managed to keep his heart. He received beatings from his father and no fewer than nine of his teachers.

Even he wouldn't diminish another child's abuse because it wasn't as severe as what was dished out on him.

:eyes:

[Shakespeare]

69. Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld, and you stand at your desk for 8 hours a day....

....therefore, it can't be torture. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I hate these stories

and you know why.

Angry parents are not the most reliable reporters. I always wonder what we aren't being told. ::sigh::

[tomreedtoon]

34. You can't enforce those kind of standards on teachers...

...if you got rid of all the elementary and secondary teachers that were sadistic, manipulative bullies, you'd only have thirty people left in the profession. In the entire country.

The only problem with this teacher is that she got caught. She should have beat them on the soles of their feet with a leather strap, like the teacher I used to date.

And yes, I'm angry and bitter. But I also remember the way schools work.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I am a teacher and I deeply deeply resent what you are implying

I am not sadistic or manipulative or a bully and neither are 99% of my colleagues.

I am very sorry you had a bad experience in school. But to assume an entire profession is full of cruel adults is not only wrong but insane.

There are far better ways to resolve your anger and bitterness than to flame teachers on the internet.

[tomreedtoon]

64. Implying? I'm TELLING you.

Perhaps you haven't looked, really looked at the people around you in the teacher's lunchroom. Try it. You may still have the capacity for shame, unlike your colleagues. Don't wait until the next time one of them is brought up on civil charges for child abuse, which seems to happen on a weekly basis in my state. (And again, that's only the ones unsophisticated enough to get caught.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. In 26 years, only 2 teachers I have worked with

have been charged with child abuse. One case was a false accusation. So that makes one - out of 26 years, in 8 schools, with several hundred different teachers. I have heard of other accusations in other schools but I honestly only know of the one that was proven child abuse and resulted in the teacher being fired and criminally charged.

Corporal punishment is forbidden in my district and we are told repeatedly to keep our hands off the kids. So we do.

You are stepping way out of bounds here. Like I said earlier, you need to resolve your anger in some other way rather than beating up on me on the internet.

Good luck to you.

[The Jacobin]

77. I probably shouldn't rise to this, but here goes:

What the fuck are you talking about?

I am in the teacher's lunchroom. We are a very tight club. Here's what that means - we screen the new teachers (and even the subs) carefully. If you are obviously a nutcase, you won't make it past the first semester. The administration will can you based on our input. Happened to two new teachers this year.

I'm TELLING you. There may be abusers in the system, but they don't last long.

P.S. Any moron with a pencil, a sheet of paper, and about 50 bucks can file a case against a teacher (that's "civil charges for child abuse" to you). That's why damn near all teachers are members of a union. We need legal protection from the "Not My Child" parents and the districts will not provide it.

[NorthernSpy]

78. I've gotta say... I've known an awful lot of REALLY bad teachers

Let's see... in the course of my own schooling, I had teachers who were:

• genuinely, seriously incompetent
  
  
• personality disordered, like one particular wacko I'll never forget.
  
  
• bullies, who seemed to get off on intimidating their students (nothing to do with keeping order or maintaining discipline)
  
  
• pedophiles (a few of whom actually got caught)

And even so, I know full well that lots of folks here can easily top any story I might share about this stuff. Bad teachers -- even criminally bad -- are not all that rare.

[MissB]

79. Where the hell do you live?

I cannot imagine one single teacher at our school doing the things that you suggest.

[ThomCat]

80. I remember teachers

who clearly played favorites, supporting the popular kids and participating in the bullying of unpopular kids.

I remember teachers who were arbitrary and mean on a constant daily basis, of often viciously so.

I remember a teacher who would ask questions and then yell at the student for answering it, saying they were "talking back" and then give out detentions. It was bullying pure and simple.

I know of teachers who flirted with the pretty girls, and I remember rumors of teachers who were "close" with some of those girls.

Of course, that was decades ago. But here in NYC the paper is frequenty full of horror stories about teachers groping, having sex with or selling drugs to students. I imagine that only the worst makes the papers so what is happening that isn't making the papers?

I have many friends who are high school teachers, and I hear constantly what a battle zone it is. But there are teachers to making it a battle zone too.

[MissB]

81. I think I may be glad

that I live in Oregon. :D

[tomreedtoon]

83. State of Florida, United States of America.

And you are obviously either not paying attention to the teachers at your school, or...how can I best put this...you have deliberate reasons for not admitting the truth about American public education.

[iconoclastic cat]

99. And you are either suffering PTSD, or you are delusional.

Perhaps it's just that I haven't been to Florida, but there's no way you can slime all of American public education this way.

[treestar]

51. Don't buy that

Most teachers are not bullies.

[tomreedtoon]

67. All right, then how about "sadists?"

Dominators/dominatrixes? Since kids are legally required to obey their psychotic demands until they graduate secondary school at least, perhaps the best word is "slavers" or the more sex-specific "slavemasters/slavemistresses." In all honesty, there are only a few proper words to describe adults who abuse children that are not their own. (For parents who "home-educate" their kids, there are a whole other set of descriptions for their abuse.)

If you deny this, then you really haven't seen what's going on in schools, or you've forgotten your own educational "experiences."

[jeanarrett]

68. You're nuts.

Bye.

[Bridget Burke]

76. Ah--so that's how you "get off"

And you say you used to date a teacher.

[iconoclastic cat]

101. Wow, someone hurt you pretty badly. Seek help.

Get yourself to a therapist. And if the person who hurt you is still teaching, you should consider going to the authorities.

[bbernardini]

93. You're an idiot.

I've worked with close to 500 teachers in my educational career, and I've never known one to be like you describe. Take your personal issues and piss off.

[incapsulated]

3. Hope she is fired

Real soon.

[Sadie5]

7. Neocon hatred

against poor little kids who couldn't defend themselves. It should be more than firing, something like tar and feathering.

[Heidi]

4. Disgusting.

This teacher should lose her teachers' license.

[Ms. Clio]

5. DFW = Dumb Fuck Waddery

at least depressingly large swathes of it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. What a piece of work

I'd nominate her for stupid conservative of the week but there is no humor to be found in what she did. She should go to jail besides being fired.

[xxqqqzme]

31. I think she is a prime candidate for

'Worst person in the world'.

[Kutjara]

8. Never mind firing the teacher...

...they should be in jail. Forcing children to sit in the sun with no water is a clear assault. The fact that at least one child was sunburned and another got a headache and nosebleed is prima facie evidence of actual bodily harm resulting from the teacher's actions.

A fired teacher could be back in a teaching job within weeks. One with a criminal record for abusing children will never teach again.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

10. I can hear the venom spewing forth from the blowhardiest...

of the blowhards in defense of the teacher. It's all so very sad - those poor kids and their families. I'd make a huge phucking deal out of it - that school district wouldn't know what hit.

[gerrilea]

12. Shame on all of you who believe in the "he said, she said"...especially

when you are talking about children saying this or that!

You all should know that children say what their parents tell them and I've personally seen children that if they don't get their way...create stories...just to get someone that may have corrected or disciplined them in trouble.

Please don't mistake this post as endorsing "the supposed" actions in this case as being okay...I don't...but "lighten up".

Quit buying into the "spin" surrounding the immigration issue...the GOP is trying to get this "immigrant bashing" off the ground...and stories like this one..."feed the animal"...

Since the parents that were quoted in the article cannot know anything, they were not there...it's all conjucture...

As for the "teacher" who thinks this person should loose their job, hasn't worked in NY School Systems...In fact, one of my co-workers, who is a teacher here in Buffalo, just told us today of an "incident" that happened this afternoon at school..involving 11 students beating up a gym teacher...Our society is crazy...


And as for a teacher having the children reading outside for 2 hours without a bathroom break is a stupid stand...children need to have boundaries and rules...especially while at school...

No teacher should be subject to violence and you people here think not letting a child not go to the bathroom for two hours is terrible.

How does anyone here know whether or not the teacher told them to "go" before they went outside?

When I was in school, if you didn't "go" when you were told, your fault! And you had to wait...period...

Reality check please...how many of us have gone on trips with our children and they have "had to go to the bathroom", no sooner after we started out on the trip and we all know it's out of boredom...not because they have to "go"...



:freak:

[Horse with no Name]

14. If you actually read the article, you would have read this....

>>>>>snip
Ms. Moreno was also told that eight to 10 students were involved and that those students were asked by school administrators to write an account of what happened. The students' statements were similar, Ms. Moreno said.

[gerrilea]

18. I did read the entire article...thanks

The fact, that 8-10 children all said the same thing...How does this parent know this for a fact. Unless the children are all friends and are "taling about it" and making sure their stories match...

Since the school will not release information, the mother cannot know this to be true at all, unless she has "put the other children up to it"...

I don't want to be a devil's advocate here, but the story it bs...and should be treated that way...

I don't for one minute believe "the story"...sorry....

How reactionary of you...have some common sense please...

I really don't believe the part about a child's nose bleeding and the teacher ignoring it...and the part about derogatory names is bs too...the mother wasn't there...

I truly see it differently...

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Ms Moreno is a parent; why would she have access to these statements?

[gerrilea]

27. Thanks...my thought exactly...

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. If this parent had access to all these written statements the kids made,

that would violate about a dozen portions of the federal privacy laws and there definitely would be a teacher or an administrator in BIG trouble.

[gerrilea]

35. Exactly....

:loveya: :yourock:

[RagingInMiami]

15. Right, a group of Hispanic kids snuck out of the classroom and sat

in the sun until they got a sunburn. Then they all conspired to make up this story about their teacher.

[gerrilea]

19. Please, you don't know that is the truth...

[RagingInMiami]

28. And neither do you

But I'm not an idiot either. I know those immigration marches have brought out the worst in non-Hispanic Americans. It brought out hate they probably didn't realize they had.

I've seen plenty of it here.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Stop and please listen

You know where I stand on the immigration issue. You know where I stand on the racist crap we have been seeing day after day after day lately.

But these stories are ALWAYS only one side of what happened. I am not excusing this teacher or saying this did NOT happen. I am only asking you to stop and realize we do not have enough information to decide if anyone did anything wrong. All we have are upset kids and angry parents. We don't know what really happened unless we hear from the teacher. And I doubt that her story will make the 5:00 news.

I could write a book about stories like this that kids took home to parents that were blown completely out of proportion. I could write another book detailing crap parents told the media in my district alone that ended up being completely false.

So why don't we wait until we know what really happened? If this teacher really did punish these kids for taking the day off, then I will lead the charge to her door and tie the hangman's noose myself. But NOT until we have all the details. Like I said, too often kids don't tell the whole (or the true) story.

[RagingInMiami]

33. Well, it really doesn't make a difference what I think

I'm not an investigator nor am I sitting on the jury, so my opinion has no effect on this incident whatsoever.

Yes, I know kids make stories up, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the reporter in this case, who would not have written the story had he/she believed there was some sense of BS to it. And I doubt their editors would have allowed this story to proceed.

The Dallas Morning News is a reputable paper within the industry, especially when it comes to their education beat writers. And I know most of us have no respect for the corporate media, but having been a newspaper reporter for most of my adult life, I understand that the media sucks when it comes to national and international coverage. But local coverage is usually a different story.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Last year in my city, there were at least 4 stories just like this

that the media grabbed and broadcasted - on both the local news and in our paper (which is also a very reputable paper) - that later turned out to be bullshit. And no, the paper did NOT print a correction.

This year, remember the story about the kid who was suspended for speaking Spanish? That happened here at a school where a good friend teaches. The real story isn't at all what the media told us.

[RagingInMiami]

37. Well, whatever the story really is, I'm not going to sleep over it

[Donald Ian Rankin]

90. Do you mean "*lose* sleep over it"?

[Joe Chi Minh]

74. I don't believe children make up stories. They're the most

naturally honest human beings alive. If an individual child has a reputation for terrible and incorrigible behaviour, sure they can lie; but not the generality of young children. They simply don't have the motivation.

If adults don't like someone, it doesn't take them long to want them conform to the worst of their opinions of them/wishes for them*.

The vast majority of children want to believe the best of their teachers.

Why don't you give us some examples of what you consider might be "the other side of the story?" I don't believe the situation described, if half true, bears any kind of valid "other side of the story".

*It's why Christ said we were not to judge. It wasn't that he wanted us to abnegate our intelligence, put it in suspended animation. He just knows that, for example, we, as adults, will never believe in Hell with such certainty as when we hate someone and wish them condemned to spend an eternity in it (which is not to say people never deserve it, however). Not so the generality of children.

[RagingInMiami]

85. I agree

Children are the most honest species alive. Besides dogs, of course.

[lastliberalintexas]

94. LOL- You must not be a parent

Children make things up all the time, which is actually (usually) a good thing because it shows that they are progressing developmentally, are able to use their imaginations, and are testing boundaries.

I am not saying that these kids are lying, or that this teacher actually did the things of which she is accused. I try to withhold judgment on these kinds of things, as I despise trial by media.

But to say that kids don't make things up is just ridiculous. There have been plenty of cases of false accusations of molestation (esp at daycares), and groupthink kicks in so that a number of children say that they too were abused. It's why these kinds of cases are so hard for prosecutors and the defense- because absent physical evidence of abuse, it is extremely difficult to determine whether that abuse even occurred. And if it is known that the child was indeed abused, absent DNA it is also very tough to get children to accurately name their abusers. They will unfortunately often name another adult who might seem safer in their minds, because they are usually so afraid of their abuser.

Again, I am neither defending nor accusing either side in this case. Just pointing out that kids do lie.

[mondo joe]

96. You're doing satire, or you don't know real children.

Kids can be very honest. They can also lie and manipulate.

[MercutioATC]

23. Bullshit.

Yes, there are students who have assaulted teachers. Not the case in this situation. If the school wanted to suspend the students for unexcused absences (assuming there was a clear policy), that'd be fine.

NO teacher has the right to make students sit in the sun without bathroom breaks for two hours...for ANY reason. If the students HAD actually been a problem, there are better ways to handle it. Had it been MY kid, there'd be hell to pay.

This isn't a general "teacher bash". I understand what many teachers have to go through. NO teacher, however, should EVER act in this manner.

[gerrilea]

30. You're assuming something from only one side of the story....

None of us can know what happened, we weren't there and neither was the mother that was quoted in the story...

thanks for "not bashing" the teacher...but I suspect that your tune will change when you have children and realize that "two hours" is not that long...good god!

[lumpy]

45. I have to assume this punishment

of children by a teacher is OK with some people. True this is only a news account. However,assuming this actually happened, as a parent who has raised 4 children, the teacher would be have to prove this action was justified. During tamer times missed school days in elementary school were discussed by the parent and teacher not arbitrarily settled by the teacher.

[Memory Container]

46. "Not that long"?

Two hours in 90+ heat without water is potentially fatal... moreso for a child.

Children die of heat stroke every year.

[MercutioATC]

55. My son is 15 years old...

I'd have the head of any teacher that tried something like this with him.

Sorry, but two hours in the sun IS too long. That's not the real issue, though. The issue is a teacher who becomes upset personally and loses their good judgment. For chrissakes, if you're going to be an educator you have to have greater control of your emotions than that.

These students did something that offended the teacher and the teacher retaliated...teachers should never retaliate, they should educate (sometimes education involves teaching about consequences). This teacher was dead wrong.

[ThomCat]

58. "Don't have an opinion, because you don't know enough."

I really hate reading posts that tell people to refrain from having an opinion.

That's just a way of saying, "Wait, don't attack the people I support, even if they did something horrible."

It is impossible to know everything, so by your standard it is impossible to ever have an opinion. But opinions, and the righteous anger that come with them fuel investigations, fuel reforms, and ultimately make things better for everyone.

If everyone holds their tongues and genuflects automatically towards teachers then teachers are given a free pass to abuse students. Yes, teachers should be respected, and yes they should be protected from abusive students, but students also need to be protected from racist abusive teachers.

There needs to be an investigation. The kids need to be listened to, seriously. The teacher needs to be listened to, seriously. And whichever side is credible needs to be believed.

I've had past experience with biased, bigoted and sometimes violent teachers. I've also had experience with kids who would love to "get" a teacher. But if these kids really spend several hours outside, unsupervised, then that stronging indicates the teacher is guilty.

[Infomaniac]

72. I also hate posts that tell people to refrain from having an opinion...

Having an opinion or point of view is fine. Not being able to keep an open mind about a situation is quite another. The teacher's actions merit an investigation. Keeping kids that young outside, unsupervised, does not pass the smell test. If that was my kid, I would be livid.

[ThomCat]

73. Absolutely.

I'm livid just thinking about it, and I'm not even a parent.
:hug:

[Ms. Toad]

97. Two hours for my child without a bathroom is "that long."

There have been times in her life when 15 minutes without access to a bathroom was too long - even if she used the bathroom a the beginning of the 15 minute period. When she was younger I could have shipped you a boatload of soiled garments to prove my point. She happens to have an underlying health problem, however as an adult without any underlying health problems, I have occasionally had to walk out of 1 hour lectures two or more times to use the bathroom (having used the bathroom immediately before the lecture began). Just depends on whether my body is dumping fluids that day or not - if it is, there's nothing I can do other than cooperate with it.

Being outside in 100 degree weather for two hours without access to water can lead to life threatening conditions such as heat exhaustion or heat stroke. If you don't believe it, take a first aid class.

That said, I don't know whether the children's reports were an accurate recitation of what occurred. As a former teacher I observed (and was the subject of) the creative flourishes included in some students' reports of what occurred in school.

If the reports are accurate, however, the teacher needs to find another profession, speaking both as a parent and as someone with over a decade of classroom experience.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Thank you

One really important thing to remember when you read these kinds of stories is that we are getting the parent's version of events and they got their story from their children. The teacher is NEVER quoted. Privacy laws prohibit her/him from discussing these incidents with the media.

I am in no way justifying being mean to kids. IF this teacher did do this, she was wrong. All I am saying is we are only getting one version of the story and that version comes from kids who think (or maybe know) they are in trouble. And kids exaggerate. All the time.

I had a kid just a few weeks ago tell me her grandfather had showed her some nasty pictures on the internet. She later admitted she had lied because she was mad at him.

[gerrilea]

26. You're welcome...someone else with some common sense in all this...

I felt for a bit I was the only one here who knows the mentality of children and the parents of children...:hi:

[lumpy]

40. If this account proves to be true

do you believe the teacher did the right thing in punishing the children in this manner for missing a day of school? If the children had missed school, on say, May 2nd, would you feel the teacher was correct in punishing the children for missing school ?

[ThomCat]

59. At the very least,

getting a 0 grade for that project is wrong. Those kids should not be punished for taking a day off from school with their parent's permission. There is no justification for that.

[Ms. Toad]

98. There is a vast difference

between understanding that there are two sides to every story (and that we do not know the entire story yet) and agreeing that the kind of actions reportedly taken by the teacher are acceptable.

Several of your posts minimized behavior that, if true, would be fair game for criminal charges of child endangerment (forcing a child to remain outside for two hours in weather around 100 degrees without water or access to a bathroom, and failing to investigate reports of a headache by one of the children, one of the symptoms of heat exhaustion).

While I agree, we don't know whether the children accurately reported what happened. That is being investigated by the school district. I, personally, do know that if the reports are factually accurate the actions are inappropriate - perhaps even criminal.

[Richard Steele]

39. And you know so much more than us...how?

Seriously, how is it that OUR assumptions deserve
mockery while YOUR assumptions need be regarded as gospel?

Pretend I'm REAL stupid, and explain that to me slowly
in words of one syllable or less.

[readmoreoften]

43. you're out of your gourd

"No teacher should be subject to violence and you people here think not letting a child not go to the bathroom for two hours is terrible."

What do the violent actions of students in a NY public school have to do with a teacher somewhere else calling her students "wet backs" and punishing them for taking a day off from school with their parent's permission.

[Midlodemocrat]

62. Gonna have to disagree here.

As a licensed clinical psychotherapist, getting 8-10 children to agree on something means it went down the way they said it did.

[lastliberalintexas]

95. Not necessarily

Again, I don't know what really happened here, and I'm inclined to believe that this "teacher" really did this and should be reported to our state CPS (whatever the heck it's called these days) and the local police.

However, I did just want to point out that there have been many cases at childcare facilities where one accusation of abuse was made, groupthink kicked in and several children jumped on the bandwagon to also claim abuse- then it is proven that there was no abuse of ANY of them. Indeed, many high profile cases of such.

A child can lie, a group of children can lie together.

[Midlodemocrat]

102. That happens to be true, but not of school aged children.

Smaller children are more easily led to say things that are suggested to them, once they hit 6-7, it is far less likely.

[EFerrari]

13. The fallout always affects the most vulnerable, like kids.

:(

[kevinbgoode]

16. Obviously, this teacher needs to be at a "Christian" school

So many of those conservative academies specialize in torture and child abuse. Then she could blame all of her ideological indoctrination urgings on God.

[nicknameless]

41. What a psycho! I hope to God that they do more than just fire her.

:grr:

[treestar]

49. This woman is a control freak who needs treatment

[Joe Chi Minh]

75. I'm afraid females tend to be the worst bullies, whether as

teachers or as pupils. It's a truism,isn't it?

Although I was fortunate to escape bullying by either, I remember a female teacher in primary school quite viciously hitting an wholly innocent male pupil, and another - a former missionary - bullying my sister, I think verbally. I went to the headmaster about it and she was left alone.

Also, an 11-year old classmate bullied younger children. I stuck a pin in her rear, and was sent to the head, who again sympathised. I didn't understand until later why the dinner ladies seemd amused in a symathetic kind of way, that lunch-time.

I just wish I'd had the character to intervene (with a measure of violence, I have to say), when I saw a younger lad being bullied by a big cowardly lout in my secondary school.

[Coexist]

52. I hope she is fired if this turns out to be true...

It sounds a little harsh, so I would like to hear the other side first - It really is hard to beleive.

But if it is true, this woman doesn't belong with students.

[lonestarnot]

54. Where? Ozone particulary high in Phoenix yesterday, burn lung stuff.

[ThomCat]

60. Yes, 2 hours in the sun, unsupervised, no sunscreen, no water

That's an invitation to a lot of problems, and the teacher would be 100% responsible.

[Cleita]

66. Wow, sounds like the parochial school I went to.

Except while we were out in heat for a couple of hours that was anywhere from 100 to 110 degrees, we had to kneel on concrete.

Our parents said it was fine because we must have deserved it and sister was NEVER wrong because she was married to Jesus Christ.

:puke:

[AspenRose]

71. I sure hope MALDEF is on the case.

I really do.

[derby378]

84. Just sent an e-mail to that POS teacher...

Nothing overly vitriolic or anything like that, but I did ask her, "What the HELL were you thinking?!?"

[DerBeppo]

86. I made my students write

I made my 11th grade English students explain to me via oral report or essay why they were protesting and what specifically they were protesting against in order to make up the missed work. Far, far too many students (anecdotally, 1 in 20 maybe) at my school use these "protests" as excuses to ditch.

[RagingInMiami]

87. That's the best way to deal with the absenses

[slackmaster]

100. Not just fired, she needs to be incarcerated

:wtf: